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Ohio is actually an open carry state so this case will be interesting. Did the cop know Ohio was open carry or was he just massively incompetent? In an open carry state I'd imagine they first try and give the suspect a chance to surrender or put down their weapon. This 12 year old kid didn't stand a chance. He was just shot in the head right then and there.

Warning: video is pretty brutal to watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z8qNUWekWE

They should make the law if you shoot someone you lose your job without pay or pension.  Thus, the officer does not go to jail, however we never have to feed them.  Money makes people think twice.

That was pretty shocking, they gave no chance, there was no other people around in danger, the "suspect" was not moving fast.

If you are in to legalized mass murder just become a policeman in USA it seems.

Unlimited power, zero responsibility WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG?!?!?!

No, they should just enforce the law as it is, last time I checked murder was illegal and he clearly murdered that boy and therefore should be tried for murder. He's job title shouldn't come into it.

It's all about war. If you do searches for it, governments want limited war, war that they can contain and control if need be. It means more money for the war mongers.

They are bringing the war thing home to the States through the police agencies. It is becoming, if you see a cop, fall back until reinforcements arrive. The cops are acting the same way about everyone else, except that in the case of cops, it is shoot first and ask questions later if you ask them at all.

:)

The answer isn't one that can be implemented easily. But once it has been implemented, it will work far better than what we have now.

The idea of the Second Amendment wasn't one to give people the right to arm themselves. It was to uphold the right that every person has to arm himself.

If everyone were armed, people would come to respect each other. This respect would lead to friendship and camaraderie among them. The whole nation would become a group that was like a peaceful military, not controlled by the government, but active among the populace. Common sense, common law.

Crime would disappear, because the people wouldn't stand for it. No police department would be effective for anything other than criminal investigation. Cops wouldn't need guns, themselves. Why? They would be protected by the people to do their jobs of investigation - finding hidden criminals.

Cops are trained people. Train the rest of the people, and we won't need cops.

:)

I would love to be able to carry a gun (UK here), i would feel a lot safer, but yeah can imagine every now and again someone would go nuts and kills 20 people in a school or something.  That is a different issue though.

Not really, since the only schools (and anywhere else) that suffer mass murders (more than 3 victims) are "gun free zones" (which tell all criminals that they are 100% safe to commit any atrocity within). Giffords held her event right across the street from a school so it was in the federal gun free school zone, so nobody could have legally been able to "Constitutional Carry" there. Totally predictably, mass murder followed.

The "toy gun" wasn't the pink plastic water pistol you imply.  It shot BBs and was modified to look real.

"Open carry" doesn't mean you can point a realistic gun at people, especially cops, and expect anything less than a promptly delivered Darwin Award.

The parents are at fault for doing a terrible job of supervising their son.  Now the poor cop has to live with the awful consequences of their failure to raise a properly monitored and disciplined child.

That video is shit quality, so how the fuck is anyone making absolute statements about it?

No, I'd have to disagree in part.  The toy gun was white in the b&w video, therefore it was some color that comes up as white.  Could have been green, white, red....

Any cop that interprets a green bb gun as a threat needs some serious psychiatric help.

Look, I'm experienced with handguns and I know there are a few made and sold which are real guns, and which are pink.  But that's very very few.

Toy guns are legally required to have an appearance which is different from real ones - color, or an orange tip on the barrel.  This "signals visually" that it's a toy.

Using this tragedy to score cheap anti-police and/or anti-RKBA debate points is asinine.

If you could get your facts right, that would be great.

The toy gun was modified to make it look real:

https://i.imgur.com/UJvGP7r.jpg

Who was in charge of this child while he was modifying the gun's appearance and using it to scare people?

If he was massacring people with a real gun, the public would be all "ZOMG WHERE WERE THE POLICE WHY DIDN'T THEY ACT SOONER?"

In a "required-to-open-carry" State, things would be different.

It might be disastrous for a State to implement Open-Carry-Required on the spot, without any movement to get the people used to the idea, and that isn't the way it should be done. Neither is it the way that I am talking about.

Open carry in the past was a bit of a hassle. Even though it would be easier now, with all the modifications to holsters and such, who wants to open carry all the time in public. Nobody. It is a nuisance to have that thing hanging there. We have enough trouble carrying groceries to the car.

If the people of a State were used to the idea, training would be in place about how and when to use guns. We wouldn't need cops. There wouldn't be as many school shootings, because anyone using a gun in an armed school would be dead before he knew it. Everyone would know how to handle kids with toy guns; there might be toy gun areas. A real shooter in a toy gun area would be dead because folks would know how to handle such situations.

Once the bad guys are dead, only friendly, respectful people are left.

Implement this in your State, and you won't need a National Guard or police.

:)

EDIT: Cops are simply trained and armed people. Train and arm everybody, and you won't need cops.

It is my understanding that the pink/red cap on guns were suppose to show that a toy gun is in fact a toy. The very reason these caps were placed on toy guns (and BB  guns) by the manufacturers is to tell the police not to shoot when they are pointed at them because they know they cannot do any real damage/harm. If the gun was modified to not have this red cap then the police officer should assume that it was a real gun

We can deduce some things, but yeah the quality is shit.  Police in USA shock ROW most i think thats where the absolutes come from.

Yet another case where the general public reacts based on passion rather than fact. And of course, the mainstream media, as usual, is doing its best to cover up as many facts as possible in an effort to spin it in the way they want it to be spun.

There are several facts that were released right after the incident that are conveniently being left out now that it has gathered more attention. The first is that the 911 caller stated that someone who appeared to be in his 20s was holding a gun and pointing it at people and basically scaring the shit out of everyone. Now, he did say to the 911 operator that he thought the gun MIGHT be fake, but he wasn't sure. The 911 operator did not relay this information to the responding officers.

Looking at the video I can see two things that would definitely put me on edge if I were a cop. One, the kid definitely did NOT look 12. Second, as the cop car is pulling up, the kid starts walking toward the car and lifts up the front of his shirt to show/grab the gun. Now, I am no police officer, but I have had tactical training in the military. It is a fact that in situations like this, cops/military have to make split second decisions based on what limited facts they may have and from an immediate survey of the scene/situation. And having someone walking toward the car like that will always be treated as a threatening gesture.

People are saying the cop was too hasty in his shooting of the "suspect", but I am sure in his mind he was only thinking of protecting himself and his partner from what at the time seemed like a life-threatening situation. Cops are shot and killed by armed suspects all of the time. It's funny how there's never a public outcry when that happens. Newsflash! Not all cops are hate-filled bigots whose only purpose in life is to kill as many innocent people as they can.

Hey, calm down.  I'm just saying that in the survelliance video, the gun looks WHITE.  From that I conclude that it was some color other than gray or black.

This is pretty much irrefutable, right?  How do you explain it.

Added. 

Looking at the video again,  I guess what I'm seeing as a horizontal section of white, likely the slide and barrel, might possibly be a light color shirt sleeve or something. 

But the cop's actions are a bit puzzling.  He moves back away from the car out into the open, where he is most vulnerable.   Then he moves forward and fires.

When threatened he should have moved to cover and concealment first, then assess the situation.   But the kid's actions could certainly be construed as threatening.  In cop think that's seeing a barrel pointed your direction....

The left wing part of the media has a history of spinning stories and evidence to support their left wing agenda (NBC for example edited the 911 call of the guy who killed Trevon Martin).
I don't think this would have made a difference. Even if the officers were told the gun might be fake, they would not have assumed that it was fake from the start, they would only act as if the gun was fake once they can tell for sure that it was in fact fake.
The kid was only escalating the situation by doing this. I would like to know who taught him to act like that.
agreed

 What's wrong about the cop's behavior as shown by the video is this.

Police are told about a possibly armed guy, one police car drives right up the the suspect and the cop gets out.  The suspect waves what might be a gun around a bit, then the cop shoots him.

Huh?  The car drives right up to the guy and the cop gets out?

No precautions?  No concealment or cover?  Just drive right up to him?

If this had been a real encounter with a bad guy, I rather doubt the cop would have gotten out with his life.  So what the video shows is poor judgement, poor judgement, and then panic when he decided - wrongly - his life was in danger.

What this in turn shows is flaws in the training of police.  Yes, they are trained to shoot if there is something that looks like a gun barrel pointed in their direction.  This does not adequately handle the problem of kids with toys and/or mentally deficient adults with toys.  There are large numbers of examples of the end effects of these policies.

By the way, there's absolutely no logical reason to translate talk like mine into "anti-police" or "Anti-LEO".  Police who act more like "assault officers" than "peace officers" need to be reprimanded, retrained or retired.  The reason is that they are our employees, we don't need "assault officers".

Please tell me this isn't going to devolve into an argument about whether the gun was white or black.

Innocent until proven guilty, right? Cops need to learn to keep their guns in their holsters until they see the kid shoot somebody.

That literally summarized what happened
Just drove the car right up to him Bam Headshot ....  
I'm more concerned that they didn't bother to assess the situation and just recklessly went in like that I wonder if they even read the police manual on how to avoid getting hit by a potential person with a weapon.

Assuming this is not premeditated murder, there is no justification whatsoever for outrage/anger here as it is neither the kid's nor the officers' fault. It's simple natural death that outwardly appear unfair. Given all the variables at play, it is inevitable that mishaps like this will happen from time to time without being backed by hate, rage or any other emotions. Looking for a solution to this 'problem' at a superficial level will always fail but then the actual root of the 'problem' lies at a depth that neither the victim's family/enforcer nor the 'powers that be' are willing to explore.

This is a very sad story, i don't like to comment on things that i dont do a bit of research on first but everything i have heard so far sounds like murder or at least manslauter in this case.
A 12 year old boy with a gun, real or not cops should know how to deal with that situation without shooting first.
Cops have a very hard job to do but this paticular cop should lose his job and face charges.
If a cop kicks in your door at 3am with masks and guns shouting and then you shoot one dead you would probably be on death row no questions asked.

An LEO's job is to protect the public, not avenge them.  Brandishing a weapon is close enough to actual shooting to justify a kinetic response.

"Innocent" vs "guilty" has nothing to do with this.  A cop responding to a call about an armed and dangerous individual is not a court of law. 

If you don't understand the diff between a trial and a police response to an emergency, you need to learn to keep your mouth shut until you get a few dozen more clues.

Of course you assume the cop is guilty until proven innocent, because you are a hypocrite.

How stupid and completely unfit for survival must one be to not understand that [point gun at cop] = [Bam headshot]?

It's the parents' fault their kid got a Darwin Award, not the poor cop who has to live with his actions (however justifiable they were). 

Where were the parents when this child learned to act like a thug/bully and modified a BB gun to look real, then used it to terrorize other people?

Did Li'l Zé from "City of God" teach anyone anything?  ;)

Remember, when they call a grand jury to determine if the cops should go to trial, it isn't a lawful grand jury. It may be a legal grand jury, but it isn't lawful. Grand juries are composed of less than 25 people. Original law requires 25.

:)

well cops are idiots

cant belive they shot a 12 year old kid who had a toy gun

they are pretty stupid...those people should go to jail!!!

Did you bother to even read any of the articles about this? Did you not see the picture of the gun? There was no way anyone would have been able to tell at first glance that it was only a BB gun (IT WASN'T A TOY!!)

The cop was bravely risking his own life to protect the public.

Joca97 is pretty stupid.  That idiot should be sent to Somalia or some other place with no cops, to see how nice true anarchy is.

Agreed. It truly disgusts me how quickly people rush to condemn cops for doing their jobs. The sheer number of people going out of their way to post videos of themselves disrespecting cops is disturbing. I wonder how many of them would actually thank a cop for putting themselves in harm's way to rush in to save them in a life-threatening situation? I'm sure those very same people who condemn the cops would be real quick to call them for help if their home was broken into or if some thug tried to rape or rob them.

 

???

I see him as panicking, then reflexively shooting.  Based on his physical movements.

I see no bravery, and no tactical awareness of concealment or cover.

What you call bravery can be translated into stupidity.

That's a pretty good joke, actually.

But what I'm afraid I am hinting at is that the bb gun presented as evidence does not look like what is shown on the survelliance video.  I'm serious about this.  On the IR camera presenting black and white, most colors are translated to near white.

A black gun isn't.  Check the video and see what you think.

Exactly. Everyone else has consequences for their actions, accident or not. Being police grants them no special rights. The kid may have potentially pointed the gun at other people, but I didn't see him point it at the cop. The dispatcher even warned that it may be fake. While if he actually pointed it directly at the cop I might be inclined to see this as a grey area. However it appeared to me the child was simply HOLDING what appeared to be a gun. Holding a gun is NOT A CRIME, no matter how afraid the police are of getting shot. While police commonly get away with shooting like this and call it "justifiable" because it was an accident, does NOT mean his actions were not criminal.

Take your rejection of reality/substituting your own, and shove it up your ass.
Somalia has police http://www.police.somaligov.net
Somalia has government http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-14094503 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Government_of_Somalia

"True anarchy"? Fuck you, and fuck your beloved governments that AFAIK, block all "true anarchy", worldwide.

Trolling anarchists with Somalia is even easier than libertarians with roads.   ;D

With representatives as hostile, thin-skinned, and defensive as yourself, no wonder it's such an unpopular idea.

Can we agree that the police in Somalia will kill you for brandishing weapons at people, just like anywhere else?

Cops have no accountability right now. They feel invulnerable because of the strong police union. I hope the ordinance passes which requires all officers to where cameras on their uniforms.

 ::)

Do you see the words "Anarchist Representative" anywhere on my clothes?

Can I agree that the police in every jurisdiction worldwide will kill you for having the means to defend yourself (or them alleging the same no matter what was in your hand, including air itself) when you were not aggressing upon anyone, and get away with it, no matter how crystal clear and full of context the video is? Yes.

oh well... one less black ape to turn the city into a ghetto.  Cops did the right thing to put him to sleep.

I cherish moments like this.

fuck cops and fuck the people who defend them.

Fuck first-world-anarchist hypocrites who play internet tough guy, but who would be the first to call the police if their life/property were in danger.

And fuck you people that automatically accept/propagate any anti-police narrative regardless of facts at hand which suggest a more reasonable (although still tragic) course of events.

no, fuck YOU.

get shot.

I think you guys are falling into exactly the trap this sort of conflict was designed to create. There used to be a time when people implicitly trusted police, regardless of the circumstances they found themselves in. That is no longer the case, and if people are prone to blame them automatically now IT IS THEIR OWN FAULT for not moderating the behavior within their industry. The fact is police are not here to serve you, they are here to CONSUME YOU and all your possessions. If you want protection, BUY A GUN. Police will just show up to take pictures of the pools of blood after its all over, better that it is not your blood. I for one wont be calling the police unless I am absolutely required to by law, because in reality they have zero obligation to help or protect you.

And there you have it.  Wasn't it Ayn Rand who quipped "scratch a hippie and find a fascist?"   :P

When you pick the wrong cause to celebrate, it damages the rest of the anti-statist movement by association.

Don't fall into Hillary/Sharpton/Jackson's divisive trap of putting out false martyrs to canonize.

We oppose state violence more effectively when we don't automatically support people who turn out to be criminals, whether they wear uniforms or not.

it's funny you mentioned consume you and your possessions. i had the cops in my home twice. once legally once illegally. both times they were in my home they stole everything of value. my tv's, my laptops, money, gold and silver. they even took my credit card and went on a shopping spree. they started at fast food places. then convenient stores. finally best buy. somebody bought themself a band new flat screen with my fucking credit card. what they didn't take from my home they went out of their way to break. they are every bit as crooked as the rest of us even more so because they took an oath to protect and serve.

I call BS on this one. Where do you live? North Korea?

true story dude. i live in chicago.

This would be more funny if it weren't completely true. If they aren't straight up illegally robbing you, they will use civil asset forfeiture to take whatever they can "within the law". Your car, your home, your bank accounts, anything they can get their hands on. You don't have to be proven guilty of anything. As far as Chicago cops, I am in Chicagoland and can confirm they are some of the most corrupt police on the planet right up there with LAPD and NYPD, and a lot of the surrounding communities are right up there with them.

Ok, since you said you live in Chicago then it sounds more believable. Chicago is corrupt as hell. How many decades has that city been under Democrat rule?

I think the real question is how many GENERATIONS of unbroken mafia control has the city been under?

Unholy fuck...
http://twitter.com/sirosenbaum/status/540248819137781760

good find. most people already knew they were hiring idiots. they have been turning away officers that score "too high" on IQ tests for years.

If you happened to know the law in the UK, you would realize that you and anybody could keep a gun for protection against prowlers. If government complained, you could shut them down in common law court by filing a claim against the government people as individuals at Queen's Bench. http://www.unkommonlaw.co.uk/

:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwRtll3jjU4&feature=youtu.be

:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5fhBBipU3w

i saw a report on those printed guns. it's awesome. they already have little control over the gun market. soon they will have no control and everybody will have home made guns. that's both exciting and scary at the same time but i'm eagerly awaiting the day the people are fully armed and wondering how the government will react and what direction society will take.

The talk at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwRtll3jjU4&feature=youtu.be isn't complete. What they are talking about is the law regarding what constitutes a finished lower receiver. Before you drill the screw holes in the chunk of metal that will become a lower receiver, it technically is not a lower receiver. As such, it can be shipped anywhere, free of gun laws. The tabletop milling/drilling machine shown simply adds the screw holes and some other refinements that turns the chunk of metal into a lower receiver.

The milling/drilling machine is set up so that you can program it for any number of different kinds of guns. You simply get a base chunk of metal mailed to you. The metal is within the limits that gun laws say that it is not a lower receiver. Then you mill/drill it into the lower receiver that it was meant to be. If you do it this way, it remains outside the laws for gun manufacture, unless you sell in mass quantity.

Check your local gun laws before you do it.

:)

we both know they will make a revision to the law to make home made receivers illegal. but by that time the technology will already be in the hands of civilians. changing the law is easy. taking away all those guns is impossible. it will be an interesting time when government goons aren't the only ones carrying protection.

Perhaps. But in Arizona, July 2010, the law became, no permit or registration for concealed carry. Of course, there is none for open carry.

Since then, Arizona folks have been quietly arming themselves in all kinds of ways. Law Enforcement and the media acknowledge that violent crime has gone down in Arizona, but they can't figure out why.

Alan Korwin is a top gun book writer in Arizona. He writes gun law books for all the States. His take on things is that government and the media are simply unwilling to admit that we don't really need law enforcement if the people arm themselves. Alan is careful not to say it straight out like this. But, go check him out at http://gunlaws.com/ and http://gunlaws.com/PageNineIndex.htm.

:)

Doing this for personal use is legal. The moment you sell it as a full receiver, or transfer it out of state you are required to be licensed as a FFL (at least).

This is where we are going to have a big fight on our hands. Nobody likes a fight, but it's about time that our freedoms are brought back to ourselves.

Whenever you break a law (supposedly), if you do no harm or damage, and especially if the State or Federal brings charges, you win. The answers are http://www.broadmind.org/ and http://1215.org/.

It may not be easy. You may have to sue the people (their bond) rather than their position in office to make them finally toe the line, but our freedoms were never meant to be usurped like they are usurping us. FFL for a corporation, yes. FFL for a human being simply making a product for sale, no.

:)

Well, the last several decades of law and policy on firearms ownership do not support this.

They more or less show an increase in personal firearms rights, along with an increase in police aggression and militarization.

I don't think it would be good for "everyone" to be armed, as much of the population is not equipped (eg does not have training) or is not capable (eg is not mentally competent to make appropriate decisions with a firearm) of owning a gun.

In the present state of the nation, it would NOT be a good idea to instantly push everyone into being armed. It took many decades to sucker the people into believing that government would protect them. They aren't ready to jump back into guns across the board.

Back before the 1930s, there were almost no taxes on the people for anything, including no income tax, and no inheritance (death) tax. Now we are taxed on just about anything that government can come up with the idea to tax us on. And we are taxed in blood on the streets by our renegade police forces. It all has to do with guns in the hands of the people.

But, we need to start somewhere. We need to change laws all across the nation to Arizona style and more, that people can open carry, that people can conceal carry without registration and permit, that government starts programs to get many more neighborhood groups into the same kind of training that police get, and finally that government stops restricting the levels of armament that common people have.

The result won't be chaos and anarchy. The result will be respect of people and their rights by other people. If we don't start this, the police death toll will rise, because people won't put up with this forever. On top of it, just like Cody Wilson has produced practical printed guns, and tabletop gun-making machines that make REAL metal guns, people are going to find ways to make other armament that might be more deadly than guns, just to put down the police rebellion, and then the military when it steps in.

:)

All cops are completely incompetent. You actually have to fail a basic knowledge tests to be cop. They want to make sure you wouldn't be useful somewhere else in society... like the next Einstein or Tesla.

This is straight murder/manslaughter. If a suspect has is armed who pulls right up to them and jumps out, especially on the side of the armed assailant, this is rookie at best. This is some Rambo shit, they could have parked away and got over the PA and gave commands.

There is literally  1-2 seconds from door opening to death, that kids fate was sealed before the cops even got there.

http://www.copblock.org/ is a geat site, every day they have 3-4 new vids/articles on another cop doing something fucked up.

They are the criminals, the murderers, the bullies and teh thiefs.

And on top of that, I have read that it is a right to open carry State.  :)

If anything this proves two things :

1- US Police are way trigger happy, instead of using their weapons as a last ressort.

2- The firearms situation is just ridiculous, the situation is mainly due to the ease of circulation of firearms and the ease of getting one....

Only "easy" to get a gun on the black market, not legally, so everyone with a gun and not a uniform is by default assumed to be a criminal. If law-abiding, sane victims were not "gun controlled" out of our human right to self-defense, LEOs would be forced to select murder victims more carefully, or get lead poisoning from victims/good Samaritans.

the question is, why in some countrys people feel that they need to buy guns at legal or black markets as you wish...

I really think that they have in mid that there will be always enemys arround, so they need to protect themselft from an non-real enemy, they are his own enemys.... dont know if you understand what i want to say...


Not all cmon, you cant generalize, but i agree with you, most of them are...


Is really sad that those things happends, but what made me fell really sad is to know that this will never change... and this will never change because there will be people that want that it never change....

Bullshit.  If the kid had obeyed their instructions and hadn't acted like a thug about to open fire by doing the "look at the gun in my waistband" thing, he'd be alive.

If he had a real gun and killed people, you'd blame the cops for not acting fast enough.

People like you are easily misled by the media and the rest of the professional victimization industry misusing pictures of the kid from when he sat on Santa's lap as a toddler 10 years ago.

What instructions? Where is the clear recording that evidences instructions were given?

They had the chance to park outside the average accurate range of a pistol and use their PA system while the cover officer pulled the rifle or shotgun out of the center console most marked vehicles seem to have. People in vehicles rarely get life-threatening GSWs from those outside them. If they drove right up to the suspect to expose themselves to hostile fire, they are Darwin Award stupid and it's just a matter of time before a real criminal shoves their suicidal "tactics" up their ass.

This seems like one of too many idiotic OIS where suicidal cops roll right up on the perp and exit the much higher safety of their vehicle to leave no choice but to have to open fire.

Where is the evidence the cops decided to execute the kid on sight, with no verbal warnings or commands given?

How brave of you to second-guess emergency responders from the comfort of your armchair or yoga ball.

Why don't you join the force and show those dumb cops the proper way to deal with a 911 call about an armed dude terrorizing the local park with a gun?

Is it because you can't pass the physical?  No doubt.

But it's also because you would rather shift blame from the individual who created the situation to those society assigns the thankless task of dealing with it.

Thanks for fucking up my quote and erecting strawmen. Welcome to my ignore list.

Oh what a great loss.  I get so much out of conversations with people who can't control their temper and always blame the cops for having to do society's dangerous dirty work of dealing with criminals (among many forms of emergency response).

Go wave your black flag at the nearest Occupy camp.  Maybe you can get a sweet tribal henna tattoo while you are there.   :D

Where they park their car does not matter, unless they are dealing with an active shooter, they are not going to be taking cover, plus a SWAT team would likely be involved.

The fact is that the kid was acting like a thug and was treated like one. When he showed the gun to the police he did so in a threatening way. If it were up to me, his parents should be charged with some crime for being such shitty parents that the kid was acting this way

Better a dead cop than a dead innocent kid.

:)

EDIT: If cops can't figure this out, and find some other way to handle what they have to do, then they shouldn't be on the job. And the city council that doesn't act to make an innocent kid's life more important than a cop's is completely negligent and should be relieved of duty or worse.

Active shooter tactics have changed. The first responding officers rush in and stop the bastard as soon as they find him, they don't wait for SWAT, they don't "take cover". They were smart enough to change that tactic, but we are led to believe that either 1) cops are such dumbfucks that they apply their active shooter tactics to MWAG calls when they were trained to use OTHER tactics for MWAG calls or 2) cops' training for MWAG calls is suicidal and utterly devoid of common sense, but they are Pope-level infallible now, so we should never expect them to be retrained for a commonsense, non-suicidal tactic in any future situation - the active shooter tactics were the end of all evolution in LE training.

For the morons, morons everywhere: Parking your car a safe distance away so you can give PA commands and shoot from a supported position with a vastly more accurate gun, is good tactics. Suicidally putting yourself in a situation where you're forced to mag dump with a shit accuracy gun and STILL get shot or stabbed instantly, or "take cover", and/or God forbid get disarmed by the perp and they use everything you brought to the scene for innocent bloodshed, is bad tactics.


That video is still a blurry piece of shit and damn near worthless as evidence.

The video is simple support. What was done by the cops should never have been done that way.

:)

Everybody agrees with that. What should be the consequences of that action - that is the debate.

It's so blurry anyone can dishonestly use it to "support" just about anything they say. I would rule it inadmissible as evidence as a judge, or nullify a fellow juror lying that it was crystal clear to them and all the evidence they needed to see. No sound, no other angle showing where the car came from, I can't see anybody's guns at all, can't make out faces, only bodies, can barely just infer that it was a police car (from the blurry appearance of a push bumper, low-profile LED lightbar, and what looks like a contrasting color stripe on the left side of the car that is wider than I would expect trim to be, so possibly "City of X Police" lettering).

It should go before a 12-person, fully informed jury, that has been informed that they not only have the duty to judge the officer, but that they have the duty to determine the law. It's called jury nullification. And they have the right and duty to determine the law in the case in any direction that they want.

If the Grand Jury won't bring this to trial, then the parents should file a common law claim that their property was wrongfully taken from them. They should require an eye for an eye, but thy might settle for $millions. Read about and listen to Karl at http://www.myprivateaudio.com/Karl-Lentz.html.

:)

I'm 100% sure you'd be the first to suggest suing the 'lazy/coward' cops if it was a real gun and they failed to prevent/stop a massacre/killing spree.

You want to reward these unfit guardians for ignoring their child while he modified an already-dangerous BB gun to appear exactly like an actual deadly weapon?

You want enrich the parents for allowing their wannabe gangsta to terrorize people at a local park with his realistic looking gun?

The parents should be sent the bill for all expenses accrued by their unsupervised out-of-control thug larva, and serve hard time for child neglect/endangerment.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/I-ve-had-it--Eleven-Reas-by-Dave-Lindorff-American-Hypocrisy_American-Military_American-Terror_Citizens-United-141209-89.html

You are probably right but to a lower standard. If the gun was real and did any kind of damage to any living thing (animal or person) then the police would probably be blamed.
The parents should be charged with something. They should be held responsible for how their child was acting and for their child terrorizing all those people.

According to longstanding precedent, the police have no duty to protect anyone, and all lawsuits against them alleging same are tossed. Police however swear an oath to not do exactly what they do, and are effectively immune from any real consequences for breaking it. I wanted to be a cop before I learned about the dark side of the blue line.

He should be indicted and there should be a trial. The video is enough to question whether excessive force was used. The trial will allow the cop to give his side of the story, and a jury should decide if he unjustly took a life.

Against them personally, yes lawsuits will be tossed. However The police department and the city/multiplicity they work for is a different story as the victim can claim that their procedures caused them to be put in harms way

Against _any_ entity, tossed. There is no officer named District of Columbia.

I realise he was a stocky kid but I saw his photo, he looked his age
What were the cops thinking?

Cop Who Killed Tamir Rice Was Previously Kicked off Force for 'Dismal' Gun Performance, Emotional Instability
http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/03/cop-who-killed-tamir-rice-was-previously

We are not alone:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/black-men-openly-carrying_b_6313176.html

Cities have settled lawsuits in the past when shotty police work has resulted in death by criminals

This discussion's context was about the longstanding precedent that police have no duty to protect any innocent from harm. While at the same time they can kill the slightest, victimless, non-violent "criminal" only moving his/her cardiopulmonary muscles, and suffer no real consequences. Having your employer use taxpayers' money to compensate your victim is not a real consequence, and neither is losing your job. Only losing your freedom and all assets is.

When a police officer kills someone it is almost always going to be in self defense. The case of Michael Brown is a template as to the kind of reasons that police will kill someone - if they don't then the criminal is going to kill the officer. This is exactly the reason why we have the 2nd amendment

Cops need to be held to a higher standard people need to respect their authority.

You cannot legitimately claim self defense if you start an encounter by violating civil rights under color of authority and implicit threat of death or great bodily harm. It's like charging your innocent victim with assault for bleeding on you as you tried to beat them to death - something only LEOs have ever been able to do without any real consequences.


Indeed. Unfortunately "a higher standard", when the hurdle for civil rights violations with impunity is currently set 1 nanometer off the ground, leaves light-years before we get to a reasonable standard, in innocent victims' eyes.

This whole incident is one of the latest efforts of politicians for disarming the nation.

Consider. Are you going to let your children - children who you love - go to the park and play cops and robbers, or cowboys and Indians anymore? No. You fear for their lives.

What is the result? Fewer toy guns among the kids... even if the States don't individually get rid of toy guns by law.

The politicians who don't restrain the police are pushing the anti-gun laws by making the people afraid for their lives... and now their kids' lives.

If the people want to retain the strength of guns to protect themselves from government, they will have to start suing murderous police, person to person, man to man, bypassing their police office. The more the police are sued for all kinds of infractions, man to man, the more the politicians will lose money (the police bond is often financed by the city). The more they lose money, the more they will finally reign in the police.

You hear, now and again, about police in an area or two who are disciplined for actions like this, even to the point of prison. This is only a deception, a camouflage, so that people think that something is being corrected among the police. Don't be deceived. Such corrections are few and far between. It is only getting worse. Cops are only getting worse. And city councils are only finding more deceptive ways to get cops to be worse, all the while promoting more and more enslavement of the people.

Think of all the military weaponry and armament government is selling to local police departments.

:)

You try to cling to your Second Amendment right around a cop, and you're going to get shot. That's what they do, especially if you're not white. Your Second Amendment right is just an excuse for a cop to claim self-defense, and we've all seen that when they invoke self-defense, they're untouchable in the eyes of the law.

Neither this incident nor the Michael Brown incident has anything to do with the police violating anyone's rights. In this case the police were called because someone was waiving what appeared to be a gun around. The child was acting in a threatening way. IMO if a private citizen has shot the kid instead of a police officer the private citizen would not have been charged

People like TBZ have a preexisting anti-police agenda, which they spew the moment an opportunity arises, even/especially if created by a tragedy like the death of a child.  That's why such people are called "cranks."

The trenchcoat wearing Infowars kids make the rest of the liberty movement look bad, which is part of the reason they are encouraged by TPTB.

We should be protesting not because of dead thugs like Brown, but rather over events like this:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/cops-kill-georgia-grandpa-in-no-knock-raid-triggered-by-burglary-suspects-tip/

I am no fan of law enforcement, however you need to use the rule of law, just like they do. IMO law enforcement needs to be held to certain standards, but I don't think this is an example of them acting improperly

Yeah. Rule of law until they get the wrong address, knock your door down, and shoot your buddy dead who you were playing cards with, because they though the royal flush he was holding was a threat to their safety.

:)

Bovine feces. They would have been (and are) charged if they weren't murdered by a lynch mob first. Thanks for rejecting the reality of double standards and substituting your own.


Gambit.

This is rich.
The police can get away with murder; an ordinary citizen will have his ass fried.

The really funny part about all this is, there are loads of average citizens (you can find some of them commenting right in this thread) who think that the cops were justified. They simply can't get it through their thick skulls that allowing and condoning this kind of activity by cops is going come down and bite them in the near future. And, that near future just might be way closer than anyone thinks, considering the way the Federal Government has been arming the police, lately, with all kinds of WAR gear.

:)

Look at what happened to the guy who killed thug Travis Martin. He was only charged after the racest race baiters got involved and Martin's mother hired a PR firm to spread lies about the situation.

The overall public very much agreed with him being not guilty   

IIRC, George Zimmerman had an assassination bounty put on him by the lynch mob. I may have lost some friends for daring to suggest that only an omniscient being could know what happened that night other than GZ (since the rest of the neighborhood apparently rather hid than watch), and he deserved a fair trial by jury rather than a lynch mob execution.

Any potential bounty was put on his head only because the liberal media portrayed him as a racist to further their agenda advocating for gun control and because Martin's parents were trying to profit from their son's death and did so by portraying what happened as a murder