Bitcoin Forum

https://i.imgur.com/uuoos66.jpg

I received this message from Coinographic yesterday morning. I replied "Sorry to hear that. Can I ask what you plan to do with the pre-sale funds for the gold collection?"

As of this morning, I haven't heard back. 

For the record, I had offered to purchase one of Coinographic's silver pieces recently, and I expressed an interest in
a trade with them as well.

I am not posting this to tear them down. I don't know the entire story. I am posting this because after reading the comments below I believe this information could prevent others from pre-ordering a product that may never show up.

All that's left is to hear what coinographic himself has to say. Thanks for the update. I know many of us are waiting on coins/funding.

Hmm, thank you for bringing this to the community's attention.

Not surprising to hear that news, in my opinion. I have noticed several red flags coming from Coinographic in the past few months. A shame too, because they have made some very fine physical crypto coins indeed.

This can now play out 2 ways- 1) Coinographic returns all customers' pre-order funds and rewards contest winners accordingly, making them whole. Then Coinographic has to shut down the shop for the time being, but is respected for not robbing customers on the way out the door, and most of us understand because we all know this isn't the strongest time for physical Bitcoin/crypto coin sales.

Or-

2) Coinographic did not expect this to happen (if it did happen- with the "big investor" pulling out) and has squandered away or otherwise mismanaged customers' pre-order funds and the money is gone. Realizing that the ship is sinking fast, Coinographic then makes a last ditch effort to extract anonymous liquid value (Kialara coins) from remaining stock before disappearing into the night.

I'm hoping this doesn't play out like option 2 and what seems like 9 out of 10 prior Bitcoin businesses with "investor" funds.


EDIT: I have nothing against Coinographic personally and am saddened to see this as the possible end result to what seemed like a passionate Bitcoin business in the beginning. But Coinographic- if you read this, please do not run off with the money of people who believed in you & your products and wanted to support your business.

I can confirm that COINOGRAPHIC have had some major issues since their main investor pulled funding.
I've been told that they are trying to raise some capital this week.
If that fails, refunds should be sent to customers.
Guys, I know it's frustrating. I'm in the same boat as you (having orders not shipped).
Let's hold out this week and see what happens with their plan. Should it not be fruitful we will begin to push for our refunds.

Let's hope for the best.

Not good  :-\

I'm totally speculating with the following statement:

If I was a big investor with Coinographic and the "computer crash" incident happened the way it did, I would pull out too as I would not trust them to run the business in a manner that is sufficient to keep customer funds and other important info safe.

I could be wrong but this is what I think happened given recent events.

Do not take anything I say to be truth as I know only some of what happened over the past few months.

I'm just posting this in concern and to not be forgotten, I'm the winner design of the 5BTC Gold Currently at 25BTC on the site.
The contest stated that the coin and the funding will be sent when it will be shipped to other customers.
I understand Coinographic has problems but he still should keep his promise and not forget about me and the other contest.

it may be a scam.

So how do you propose he handle it if they can't produce the coins for the design contest you won?

You were supposed to get a free 5 BTC coin? Was that the prize?

The bounty was the coin itself and 5 BTC funded on the code inside.
I just hope he handle it some way. What you suggest then that the contest should be forgotten?(me being the only one not receiving the bounty in that contest) I've worked for that coin the same like others worked for the money they made to pay for the order for the coins.

should be carefully for mail like this
it can be scam..
wait and see..

What are you talking about? Are you calling Coinographic a scam? We know. Are you calling Kialara a scam? Read up.

Hey man, I bought 10 Coinographic coins last year and have them with me now. Last I heard, they are not even funded yet. And now I hear the company going underwater. Just great.

You should be paid fairly.

Have you checked the balance recently?

You are at least the 3rd person I've had tell me their coins or some of their coins were not funded.

I wanted to make a statement to update everyone on the situation with Coinographic…


Before going into an explanation I want to state clearly for the record that Coinographic was never set up as a scam.  We tried our best to start a company within the digital currency world because we believed in what we were doing and believed in Digital currency.  We worked hard to try and create a product that we believed would appeal to all.


An unfortunate chain of events has led us to a situation where we can no longer operate as a business.  Low volume sales, coupled with a large decline in the value of digital currency have left the business crippled.


Coinographic also lost its main investor at the end of November 2013.  We have tried hard to secure additional finance to keep the company alive but have failed in our attempts.


It is with great regret that I must announce we will be closing down the company.


We have no intention of leaving our customers that pre-ordered or have outstanding issues with orders out of pocket. 


Whilst we are unable to issue refunds in digital currency, we are able to issue refunds in stock from our Litecoin collection.


Over the coming days (4th February Latest) we will be implementing a form on our website that pre-ordering customers can fill out and choose the coins they would like to the value of their pre-order as a refund.


We will also have another form in place for anyone who has any missing orders, unfunded coins or any other issues.


We WILL deal with any order or issue filed with us via our web form within 48 hours.
 

It’s a very messy situation and we want to deal with things in the best way possible for all concerned.


I can’t apologise enough to everyone concerned and know first-hand what it feels like to invest hard earned digital currency in a product only for it never to appear. 


We will update this post as soon as the form is in place on our website


Thank you

Thanks for the update.

=/

Will you post the update here in the forum when said form is available?

Whatever, you are indeed a scammer!  You took money from pre orders, then failed to deliver.  Don't paint yourself as innocent!!!  And you are not refunding!!!  It is much worse than that though.  You delayed and delayed and delayed everything.  You didn't communicate anything.  When you did they were excuses about your pc and losing customer info. You also screwed over the people who designed the coins for you.  That is a scam!  You are a scam. 

You are no longer trusted! 

Well we're all assuming things. What we know for sure is that communication was/is horrible. Business fail and maybe so did theirs.

As long as I get my money back, may it be the equivalent worth in form of silver coins. I'm fine with it. IMO coinographic should be giving the preorderes a very fair price for thes 'refund' coins.

There is one thing for sure and that is they did lie about when they were going to payout bounties for their design contest, then they came out with the "cash flow" issue two weeks later.

I hope they give their customers a fair and decent deal on the conversion to LTC silver coins if they are indeed out of LTC/BTC to payout with.

What...with his coins "at cost"?  Which means double or triple the face value.  LMAO!!!!  Unacceptable.

reread this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=850724.0;all
and you will see there is nothing surprising about this at all.  The plan to steal as much money as possible before posting this bullshit story that was written months ago was in full force.
If Coingraphic has your money it's gone...more specifically, STOLEN.

How the fuck can they NOT have BTC sent to them to fund coins that they never sent?
It's all bullshit.

Yes I see your point and agree that 1 oz of silver at cost is $200 or something like that.

So to value the coins at $200 per ounce is way over priced.

Not sure but in the end it is his customers that will determine what they are happy with, not me, not him.

There were several things really wrong with the setup, one of which was the PREORDER model.

I never touch anything with a preorder model in place. 95+ percent of the time it ends in failure.

This was not a simple situation based on circumstances they could not control, it was incompetence coupled with mismanagement and a hint of deception (yes they did lie).

Yes it sounds harsh but that is the truth of the matter based on the facts that their own customers have posted as well as themselves in their excuses of why things happened the way they did.

In the end I hope every coinographic customer is made 100% whole in this debacle. That is what is most important.

If they paid out in their coins but it was valued at silver spot+face value if loaded, then it should be okay. Silver and LTC is easy to turn into BTC.

Yes agreed....  IF...!  But doubtful. 

I am very curious what their current stock is. The 25 Bull and the 10 Chickun show 400+ coins available to order. Unsure how many they have in stock. Let shops its many...

I'm not exactly sure how much worth these coins have beyond the silver itself since this will always drag a shady story behind....

With silver spot being at $18 and given that it comes with the boxes etc I assume I'd be willing to accept to refund at $25/oz without pursuing legal action.

Also their total list of liabilities. The creditors should have the assets split between then in the ratio of their outstanding value. We can't have it as first come first served, and last in the queue getting nothing

The value placed on the stock items will also be key

What I am not clear on is if this is a full repayment, just in kind rather than as ordered, or partial payment

Strangely with the global nature of sales. Coinigraphic will also need to take shipping costs into account

I need to check all of my coingraphic coins to check they were all funded as advised before the stampede starts

The public was led to believe that Coinographic had already put the bitcoin designs into production long ago (since early November I believe).

If they actually did put them into production why can't they still operate their business?

If they are having people prepay before the coins get made then they should still be able to take a cut (for profit) and send the rest to the mint to have the coins made.

Not sure where they "can't" continue operation.

This should be explained by them as it is now sounding more like a ponzi type situation where they took in customer orders and robbed peter to pay paul and now they are short on funds to fill existing orders and fund coins or pay design contest bounties.

Supposedly their investor pulled out. But if the investor did that in the end of november they should have already started the 2 BTC 2 oz gold coin production so the investor would not be able to pull out completely as they have funds tied up in the company.

The way this is all transpiring is starting create more questions than it answers.

Hi Mark,

Martin here. I assume this goes for me as well. I hate to call you out in public like this in these sad times, but since you have been ignoring my mails for many weeks now you leave me with no choice.

So please PM or mail me ASAP.

Thanks.

Guys, I've been waiting for a coin to be funded for a few weeks now. So as Smoothie said I just checked my other 25 LTC coin, I got that one around october 2014 and guess what, although I have an email confirming it has been funded. There are no LTC in that address!

This is really sketchy, and I am really annoyed about this matter; I paid for funded coins so I want my coins to be so.

This begs the question if they have been running a fractional reserve (ponzi) operation for some time?

I can't imagine why they would not have funded coins back in October 2014 other than they were hoping to get more orders to pay Paul (you) with Peter's (new customer) money.

There is at least a handful of customers that have stated publicly or privately to me that they have coinographic coins that are not funded for some time.

I'm basically calling anything I haven't received from them as a loss. If they fix it, then it's recovered bad debt. I too am waiting on funding.

Hi,

If Mark owes you money as well, please help to shed some light on how big this whole thing is:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=942255.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=942255.0)

Thanks.

reposting:

I've never ourchased Coinographic coins before, so this is just an outsider looking in.
Don't mean to kick a man when he's down, but he's lied multiple times since November as far as I can see.
Why would he suddenly be truthful now?

I remember one of his first contest in Litecointalk early or middle of last year.
One of the contestants was caught using a bank logo.
Mark privately okayed it in a PM and didn't ban the contestant until a few people called him out on it.
Looking back, I guess that is a strong indicator that he was not in this for the long haul.

I ordered a 25 ltc bull coin on the 09th of december. Did not receive anything until now.
Last update he sent me was this:


and this:


IF they have the silver litecoin coins in stock as he said, why are they not sending out mine?? I dont believe, that they have anything in stock!!!

I was under the impression that the hallmarking was done to all of the coins back at the end of summer.

Why send them only as the orders come in?

They have to be hallmarked anyway to sell them.

And yes it says the 25 ltc coin is in stock but some are waiting for their coin(s) still.

We have today added three forms to our website.  They can be found here - http://www.coinographic.com/support/.

For those of you that have received your Litecoin but it hasn’t been funded - we will fund these coins and ensure that all funding issues are dealt with as promptly as possible.  The reason your coin may not have been funded is either;

1) When you received your coin you didn’t send us an email with your shipping confirmation number
2) You requested your coin to be funded after the date our problems started

As funding is going to take place from my own personal funds, it may be that you have to wait up to a maximum of 14 Business days for your coin to be funded.



For those of you that have ordered a Litecoin but it has not been received. We will ensure your coins do get sent to you.  The delay is due to an outstanding bill with the hallmarking office that will be settled this week.  Once the bill is paid the coins will be released to us and we can proceed to ship.  We have also had a few coins sent back to us from the postal service where they were unable to deliver.  If this is one of your coins it will be resent ASAP once the address has been confirmed.



For anyone that ordered a coin from our Bitcoin collection - we have two options for you;

1) Receive a refund in funded coins from our Litecoin collection.  The price of these coins will be as it is currently on our website.  We already reduced the price of these coins to cost and make 0 profits on them.  I will happily disclose the invoices for our product to a trusted member of the community so that it can be verified that we do NOT make a penny on them. You can expect your coin refunds to be delivered to you within 30 days from your request.

2) Negotiate a payment plan with us so we can refund the amount of digital currency that you paid for your coins.  As with the coin funding, these payments will be coming from personal funds and as such it could take as long as 90 days for you to receive a full refund.  We do propose your refund be paid to you in three installments, with the first installment due to you within 30 days of your request.


To all competition prize winners;

Due to the situation with the company and the fact we will not be manufacturing the bitcoin collection we will be unable to pay the prizes promised.  Once we have dealt with our other outstanding issues and made things right with our customers, we will re-visit the situation and look at the possibilities of what can be done to rectify this situation.


IMPORTANT
We have had some people contact us suggesting that because the price of digital currency has fallen, they should be compensated with more digital currency when they are refunded. This is NOT possible.  The amount of Litecoin or bitcoin you paid will be the amount you are returned.  The price of digital currency is completely out of our control.

On January 4th the 25 LTC Bull coin was "25 LTC coins for only 0.60 BTC", now it's suddenly costs 1.1 BTC =(

Hm, other "at cost" prices you gave in early December seem to correlate with what you have on the website right now (about 250 USD per LTC Bull coin).

Thanks, for holding the promised timeline! Gives me a little confidence back!

@coinographic, would be appreciated if you could hand those invoices to @smoothie, just to double check that everything is happening as advertised.

Sorry but smoothie is one person i will not be dealing with in anyway

I would be happy to view these and confirm the costs or alternatively Coinographic could pass them to TheMage:

My Litecointalk Profile: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=19243

more then happy to send these to you, Give me a couple of days to get them together


Thanks

Well this is a shame...I was going to buy one of those gold coins when they were in stock. I had ordered 42 coins and there was an issue getting them funded, but I did not email them when I had received them. For what it is worth they did get them all funded for me after a couple of emails. Glad to see they are doing the right thing and refunding everyone though!

Request sent.
I will update here.
Hope this works out for everybody!

If I didn't get my LTC bull and 1LTC coin from November, can I get a chickun and LA10LTC as refund? And could you actually DHL this time?  ::) I asked and you agreed but you didn't, and I don't have it yet.

First Coinographic says this:


Then coinographic says this:


A bit of double talk? Seems like they won't be able to deal with each and every customer issue/complaint/order within the promised 48 hours.  ::)

Looks like if you pre-ordered a physical BITCOIN you are entitled to a FULL REFUND...but it may take up to 90 days  :o

I do not want a public dialogue regarding monies that are owed - its between Coinographic and I to work out. At no point has CG said some people will get more or less than others. Has it not crossed your mind that CG may need to use their own monthly 'wages' from other business or obtain finance to refund customers - this can reasonably take a few months. Jesus, give the guy a break - he is trying to put right his mistakes and the failings in his business.

Seriously Smoothie, if you spent as much time focussing on your personal business you would make a lot more sales. I for one refuse to buy any further coins of yours as a) they are not that high quality compared to others on the market and b) your whole attitude on these forums just stinks.

Businesses do not always work out as we plan - CG have made mistakes here, but let him put them right before attacking him constantly.

Please do not buy my coins as I never expect anyone to trust me nor do business with me if they do not want to.

Oh and by the way my coin sales are just fine as it is. Too many coin sales disallows me from doing everything else I do in my life outside of the crypto world. But thanks for your input.

My attitude has and alway be to out shady businesses and users on this forum. If you do not like it that is fine.

As I said previously I hope you are made whole in this debacle...

To be clear I do not believe in making dishonest decisions like lying to get by with life or in my business as coinographic has. So no I can't understand nor relate as doing the right thing should be a consistent thing and not a "pick-and-choose-when-I-want-to" thing.

But if you support him even though he has done these dishonest things that is your prerogative. I do not support dishonest people on this forum nor outside of it.

Just calling a spade a spade here  ::)

Thanks smoothie for fighting for the good. Very much appreciated. I think your coins are high quality (besides maybe the ghosting on the 1 LTC :P )

I think coinographic got the nudge back on the right track now though... *fingers crossed*

Thanks for noticing.  ;)

Time will tell!

Thank you to everyone who has filled out the forms so far.  We are reviewing each request as we speak. If you filled out the form before this message, you will hear from us before the close of play on Tuesday

Regards

Thanks for the update!

Should the Winner of competition fill a form?

None of you are getting paid.

That pretty much says it. They will not honor their word.

Not sure what makes some think they will honor all refunds.

re·fund1
verb
rəˈfənd,ˈrēˌfənd/
1.
pay back (money), typically to a customer who is not satisfied with goods or services bought.
noun
noun: refund; plural noun: refunds
ˈrēˌfənd/
1.
a repayment of a sum of money, typically to a dissatisfied customer.

Yes. Thanks for the copy paste from an online dictionary or just google.

But the fact remains to be seen if he will make good on ALL refunds as he claims.

To be clear since you missed it...

When I said "That pretty much says it. They will not honor their word." I was setting a precedent on what Coinographic is doing with design contest winners.

Then if you read carefully you will see in the next sentence I take that precedent and put it into the current promises of full refunds to all customers by saying "Not sure what makes some think they will honor all refunds."

Remember the precedent of lying started way back in November 2014. And it wasn't on just one occurrence.

Lets wait and see what the real outcome of this all is.

Any news here?

I submitted the form before the post so hopefully we'll hear back from him sometime tomorrow.

An update for everyone waiting for coins to be funded. All unfunded coins will be funded within 48 hours of this message,  you will all be emailed when funding is complete


Thanks

What about people (like myself) that are waiting for ltc coins??

that will be the very next thing we deal with...

 

 ???

Has anyone heard back from coinographic?  Its Tuesday night here.

When I filled out the form, I didn't get any reply back to my email, so I wasn't sure if they received my request.

same here. So you should be good.

  ???  ???
 
Maybe he "forgot" or got a cold or had an emergency or ran across a black cat... 

That seems to be the trend as of late.

Wednesday here now, haven't heard from them yet.  :-\

I hate empty promises!   >:(

If you look at Coinographic's track record of the last 4 months it has been exactly that.

Not surprising.

Has anyone got anything?

Nothing so far =(

same here... nothing

Yup, no news from him...

Another scam?  ???

yeah, looks like it.
Left negative feedback.

Hmm. Don't think anyone has heard from him or had coins funded or received.
I'm not going to be doing any doxing but his details are pretty easy to find online.
I'd say give it a few more days before somebody should call up and speak to him.

I haven't heard anything either.  Sigh.

Agree...maybe someone should try contacting him in the UK.  

Was this a lie?

Since you said all unfunded coins WILL be funded 48 hours from the message you posted above and some of your own customers are coming out saying your promise was not kept again?

Lies again...

All is not lost. let have some hope and wait on the final say by Coinographic. Although I concede that hope is getting dimmer as each hour gone by. what a shame for a once promising company. :-[

Well that is kind of the problem in a nutshell, he gives out promises and when he brakes them he just leaves people in complete silence ::)

Did anyone hear anything yet?

This is the what...5th, 6th, 7th, 10th time?

Promises promises. I'm not surprised.  ::)

Company info is public, lets see if someone from the UK can do a bit of stalking...  >:(

Anyone had anything back yet ? I havent, but I missed the batch that would get a response in 48 hours

Saigonsmokes - you seem to be speaking with Coinographic ? Have you heard anything ?

For all the bitcoiners, its seems the Litecoin guys are in the same boat
https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=20417.255


Yep, they are. Domain registration and company registration details give all needed


I am thinking that without update from coinographic, there will soon need to be a collective understanding as to what is owed, from both here and Litecointalk, noone really knows just how big this is, they just know their own loss.

That sucks...I really wanted one of those Chikun coins. If anyone here wants to sell me a few funded or not let me know!

This indeed. I sort of made an attempt at exactly that here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=942255.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=942255.0), but it never gained much traction. Perhaps an online form on a website is a better solution since the affected customers are located on multiple forums.

Let's hope that Mark get his act together very soon and start to actually do what he has promised.

Coinographic LTD was set up in the early part of 2014 as a legitimate company for the purpose of creating unique physical crypto-currency coins.  Every effort was made to try and make the business succeed.

Over the last few months the company has struggled to generate sales and support for our products.  We have also suffered a lot from the fall in the price of digital currency as well as other issues.

As a company we had every intention of trying to resolve our issues and we have truly exhausted every avenue to try and raise capital to either make good with our existing customers or issue refunds to those of you that invested in pre-orders of our upcoming Bitcoin collection.

Unfortunately, we regret to have to announce that due to events over the last few months the company is now bankrupt and can no longer continue trading.

As a result of our liquidation we are unable to honour any outstanding orders, coin funding or pending refunds.

As of today we will no longer be able to correspond with anyone.  Our email accounts, website and telephone numbers will now be terminated.

If you wish to issue a winding-up petition (WUP) against our company you can do so from the following link - https://www.gov.uk/wind-up-a-company-that-owes-you-money/overview.

Our company information is below;
Coinographic Ltd
registration number 08773620

We are truly sorry that it has come to this and wish everyone the best for the future.

Isn't that just splendid. I'm sure you have over 150BTC in just orders and pre-orders that will never get filled.

Quoted for reference.

Mark, don't tell us that we are to believe that you haven't planed this for a while. You knew it was coming, but decided to lie to us and say that you'd make everything good, if we just gave you a little time.

Everything might have started out with the best of intentions, but your actions and lies these last few months speaks volumes about you.


[edit]
I got this mail from Mark. I thought it was only fair to tell his side of the story, so here goes:

[/edit]

I'm filling a police report for theft. I suggest you all do the same.
I'm in the process of gathering his personal information.
If anyone wants to get in on this hit me up.

1. You started a legitimate company.

2. Now you are not going to try to honor your customers orders, preorders, funding of coins, nor pay out your design contest winners just because.

EVEN THOUGH YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE COINS IN STOCK TO TRY TO MAKE AMENDS WITH YOUR CUSTOMERS.

#1 contradicts #2 and vice versa.

And you are going to shut down your website, email, phone numbers to cut off communication with them like a wussy who was able to take funds from your customers and not give a crap about making amends with them?

Wow just wow...

RUN COINOGRAPHIC RUN!

This is pathetic.  >:(

Quality of coins was high, but so was the price. The revenue generated here must have been significant

Everyone has assumed that after a certain point, new orders were effectively paying for previous orders fulfillment. But I am not even sure of that now. It's starting to look like initial order fulfillment was to get positive feedback and as such a greater number of orders

I am not clear at what point orders stopped being met, but new orders were still being accepted, but not delivered. Ie how much funds were then gathered, effectively without any costs incurred. In theory that's what's been cleared ...

Yes the liabilities may well exceed the assets but Coinographic should still have those funds, plus the left over stock. This should be the amount that should now be distributed between all those still owed

I don't know where those pre-order funds went to, and why they aren't still available. Saying there is no payout, not even a penny in the pound is not a tenable position. Coinographic don't think for a second that your statement closes this

For reference: https://web.archive.org/web/20150203232358/http://www.coinographic.com

Quoted for future reference

Interesting message posted on the litecointalk forum:

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=20417.255 (https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=20417.255)

Lies, lies and more lies from Coinographic

Didn't you and I both call them out on their bullshit over a month (or two) ago?

Not surprising how things ended.

Their actions show how scummy they are.


Yes Mark you are scummy for doing all of this.

I'm still shocked that he has not even funded coins from October, it seems that things have been going "wrong" (or money "disappearing") for a long time...

That is the revelation that sealed it for me that they were scammers. You do not go 3 months without funding coins for many customers and not try to make it right immediately and without delay.

Mark (coinographic) was here for one thing and one thing only...to profit even if his business failed he wanted to profit from his customers sending him funds for physical coins and then pulling a fast one on them by now closing up shop without even trying to make customers whole with their existing "stock" of physical silver litecoins.

Wow, just wow! Just wondering if you ended up paying yourself a salary up to the very last minute?

Great, just 280£ in fees to file that report and it very much doesn't look like you'd be able to pay that.

Should we file one such report all together?

Sooo, now Coinographic has a nice stack of coins and customer funds! What a great deal. ::)

Coinographic...you guys disgust me.  How many times have you lied to your customers, ignored them, broken promises, and now you resort to theft?!  You guys continued to take orders long after you knew you were not going to fulfill them.  That's fraud.  

You have inventory that you could have used to make people whole, but instead you slink off into the night.  Your argument is that sales are low and bitcoin/litecoin prices are down?  That affects every other other physical coin seller, but you don't see them acting like you.  Good riddance Mark.

I would ask that anyone in UK contact their law enforcement on Mr. Hamilton.

Some public info:

http://whois.domaintools.com/coinographic.com
http://companycheck.co.uk/director/918165311

Is anyone following the coins?
This is my TX (for the nice 2BTC deal they did): https://blockchain.info/tx/81a620c3da5b741f4e29ddaae2de1743bfce13fc6bcd595a2bf9acb4d63a00a4

From when in October exactly? I was under the impression that the company was doing well back then because apparently Mark had money and time to go on a honeymoon in late September.

I know yeah?

Take orders and preorders, claim you will send the coins, promise some partial reimbursement, then run away...

I love the integrity displayed here. lol  ::)

20 of October...

So things must have started to go wrong somewhere between late September to late October, and yet he continued to take orders all the way up until today, Jesus!

This was his reply on February 1st when I told him to take down the order page on his website:

Yup I am a physical coin seller and yes business is slow but it doesn't mean my business is going to go bankrupt.

It sure sounds like Coinographic speculated with their customer's funds. How else would they "lose" the money based on the prices of crypto?

Especially FUNDING amounts specifically for customer coins.

I already commenced legal proceedings against Coinographic last week, he is aware of this. The company is yet in liquidation, no liquidator has been appointment yet according to my solictor.

Refund Owed

He owes me 5.46BTC and 729LTC.

Mark has the following coins in stock and I have emails confirming this, he was trying to get Charlie to buy some coins recently and I am not sure if this went through:
45 bull coins
29 Chicken coins
38 LA coins
352 1 LTC coins

If anyone would like Marks personal details please PM me. I will be back in the UK next month to deal with this and to visit Mark in person to discuss this matter further, if anyone wishes me to take on collection of their debt please PM me.

Please read here: https://www.gov.uk/liquidate-your-company

'You can be banned from being a director for 2 to 15 years or prosecuted if the liquidator decides your conduct was unfit.'


Once I estbablish who the appointment liquidator is, I will post their details here. As you can see above, if the liquidator decides Marks conduct was unfit he will be banned from being a director for 2-15 years. I suggest when I post these details that everyone involved contact the liquidator and explain why Marks conduct was definately unfit and perhaps fraudulent.

Mark is currently the director of this company, http://www.visualsin.co.uk/, company reg: 8709006 which today is showing as CLOSED FOR BUSINESS.

I will update this thread when I have further information. I suggest everyone report this to COMPANIES HOUSE as a 'fraud' to ensure that they are aware of the practices of Coinographic and that they still have stock in hand. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/reporting-fraud-about-a-company-to-companies-house, they will work with the liquidators and its likely Mark will not tell the truth to the liquidation team

The Company Investigations team within The Insolvency Service has the power to investigate limited companies where information received suggests corporate abuse, such as:

serious misconduct
fraud or scams
sharp practice in the way a company operates

Also to complain to the INSOLVENCY SERVICE: https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-a-limited-company

Can everyone please post the LITECOIN and BITCOIN addresses where they made payments too, that way we can trace these payments on the Blockchain to see where exactly they ended up. Mark continued to take payments for coins yet he has not spent that money anywhere as he did not manufacture the coins. Lets try and find where he channelled these funds too so we can inform the liquidators and courts.

Wow, I am shocked by how blunt and disrespectful this situation ended. The bit about the email addresses, phone numbers, and company address all being shut down for communication just blew me away. You talked several times about having good intentions, yet your intentions over the past few months are clear: running your dying business into the ground while still trying to steal every bit possible from customers, knowingly fucking them. It sounds like you are about to get proper fucked here though. Hopefully you weren't gambling with the last customer's funds still trying to win the money back to pay off the 1st...


No kidding, I would half expect to find an "I Owe You" note underneath one of Coinographic's holograms at this point.  ::)

LINK: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=20417.msg253317#msg253317


Reposting from Litecointalk.org

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=20417.msg253462#msg253462


Is that why you keep avoiding answering the question about funding amounts paid to you for coins purchased that you had in stock that you never shipped?

You are a sorry excuse for a human being by taking people's money, making countless promises, now running away like a coward and not paying a single customer back.

Utterly pathetic.

Just checked this thread for news...

Coinographic, thats just some fucked up shit that you are pulling here...
Only lies and cheating. You are officially a SCAMMER!

Has anyone ever redeemed a Coinographic coin ? Was everything in order with the private key ?

Any more news ?

Looks like coinographics claims that he had lots of stock and wanted to trade with Kialara was a lie.

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=20417.msg263397#msg263397

UPDATE ON COINOGRAPHIC LEGAL PROCEEDINGS BY SAIGONED:

**grabs popcorn**

Cross posting these quotes so that everybody, who was involved with Coinographic, knows about it. If you have a Coinographic coin, be sure to check your balance!

---

---

That is just disgraceful.
I was quite involved when the whole scam took place and I actually spoke to their CEO (Mark) at the time. His reason for closure, for not funding coins and for not fulfilling orders was due to a lot of accumulated debt. As a result he filed for bankruptcy. Although that whole episode was extremely shady, he had some legal protection as a limited company. However, this is just pure theft and a blatant crime.

Low blow that.

Sounds like I need to check the coins I have then.

Back in the original saga, I never did find out if anything ever happened .... I seem to remeber Saigon had a large claim on Coinographic, and didnt look like letting it go quietly

You do not have to check the coin that I bought from you is empty now.
http://ltc.blockr.io/address/info/Lg58QfBBLdF6vWfDxctnwMVbW987WpPArY

I guess that all coins are empty, see transfers over 12696 LTC

http://ltc.blockr.io/#!/address/info/LKQ75Dsz8ZHPhedZtCpbKnYvaRvxYQ2Bdk

You figuring all transactions made to this wallet are part of coins being swept ?

Not able to check my coins yet .... has anyone else checked and found that they do in fact still have funded coins ?

Any questions?
1LTC -->   http://ltc.blockr.io/address/info/Ld5QScdmpmefADDFkjUXYt4cS2Uf8L2avd
25LTC --> http://ltc.blockr.io/address/info/Lg58QfBBLdF6vWfDxctnwMVbW987WpPArY

Coin from Mitchełł 
http://ltc.blockr.io/address/info/LZQqEJAsb22kbaFepEQfHUdY96sKoM7KEL

Confirmed that all 4 of my 4 LTC coins had their funds recently stolen on May 24:

25 LTC - http://explorer.litecoin.net/address/LPbQFibg6VySZRc2TeFijV3H1NWpoL5KFn
10 LTC Chickun - http://explorer.litecoin.net/address/LRA4QHRq6LEpzh73dNCNfFRiW2z5c4PmBq
10 LTC Foundation - http://explorer.litecoin.net/address/LeyAD2P2SeDmdRckGzWGqAbzASAoRN6f4c
1 LTC - http://explorer.litecoin.net/address/LLK4mLHG2zJ3yqaRfkFxyUu3fSbQohPF6X

I knew of the risks, but didn't want to destroy the holos, so I left the coins intact. 

This is in addition to the 1B and 2B coins I paid for and never received. 

Thanks Mark. 

Same here.....didn't want to mess with the precious hologram.  In retrospect, that wasn't very smart.  I even could have made a new address with the extra stickers that were included.

So it looks like he got 10LTC from my chikun coin on May 24th

and then stole the 25LTC from my Bull coin on May 26th.

so he stole 12,696 LTC?

That is almost $60k

Karma will eventually get you Mark.

F U Mark.  You will be prosecuted and sitting in jail soon. 

So have the authorities been engaged and given all details ?

Cross posting here just for more visibility.

52LTC stolen from me.
1LTC - LLH4XJiqkDME5jGSLXMYREEEzfmK6jph8u
1LTC - LWX5hwPi6m1j9qwQXadUEHUYA2UHyxkaHp
25LTC - #006 - LPKCCoQLYiEJ4AKyj7MN6D3k7conNeNtdh
25LTC - #051 - LiUjwFGQv8T6kLwTVj7eh4zGBDTM2gUcZ7

They all seem to have gone to these two addresses: LKQ75Dsz8ZHPhedZtCpbKnYvaRvxYQ2Bdk LY8mTpBpPqXPM4hjTruBxuzNh9SwJJmfvn

Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/litecoin/comments/4mbcvn/coinographic_theft/

Wow, what an absolute scumbag. I haven't been following this thread and decided to catch up with it.. Let me firstly state I have lost nothing, as I purchased nothing. Sorry for you guys that got conned :(

This is blatant, outright theft. First the order scamming, and then on top of this he goes and raids whatever funded coins there are in existence :o
Meaning that he kept EVERY SINGLE PRIVATE KEY that was created.. :o
Doing what you have done to your customers gives physical coin producers a bad name Coinographic. Absolutely disgusting behaviour, and certainly not something you should be able to get away with. Karma will catch up with you.

I tend to agree, the damage done is also towards other coin manufacturers, trust is essential for Physical Bitcoins.
Of course people who got coins stolen have been damaged too, I didn't buy any luckily but I would be enraged if I had.
What a clusterfuck!

Couldn't agree more. This certainly would have impacted a good proportion of buyers and collectors; some may never be willing to trust a new manufacturer again. You have to put a lot of trust that coin makers will not rip you off, be it now or 5 years down the line. This will stop a percentage of new blood from entering this niche market. It takes a certain kind of asshole to do what Mark Hamilton has done though.

What country and city is this guy in?

Bankruptcy doesn't allow someone to commit fraud (criminal activities).  And, even if it did, these thefts are occurring after the fact.  So, anyone could go after him civilly and criminally as well.

UK (I think)

Yeah, he's from the UK:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/officers/tSHVobuKgRoBAbHOyru3A0-hLWc/appointments

He's in the UK. As for his precise location right now, that's anyone's guess ??? Someone further up the thread was in contact with him, I'm not sure if that's still the case though.

Is anyone interested in his actual name (not Mark HAMILTON)? I've found information about him and wife presumably his mother (with a current location).

Might as well post it just in case I won't be able to find it again ;D.

According to this notice (https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/2393391) Mark Hamilton is also know as Mark Peter Perrins, born 25 April 1979. His last known according to that notice is 10 Belvedere Crescent, Weston-Super-Mare, North Somerset. The notice was posted in August 2015 and according to several real-estate websites that house has been sold in September 2015.

Anyways, 'Mark Hamilton' has previously owned a company called VISUAL SIN LTD (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08709006), which was later signed over to someone named Delia Perrins, born in November 1955. I'm going to assume that's his mother (or he's into older women ;D). They both lived at the same address in Kent (http://www.192.com/atoz/people/perrins/delia/me15/4189841521/) a few years ago so they're definitely related.

Delia Perrins is currently the owner of another shady LTD, called DM CARE SERVICES LIMITED (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10123042). The company was created on 14th April 2016. The company's address is Bollin House, Bollin Link, Wilmslow, Cheshire, United Kingdom so I guess that's a good place to start asking questions.

Quoted for future reference. Thanks!

It seems like a lot of money was stolen, a lot of people are angry but no one is following up on it? Collectively a lot of people lost little amounts, but it sums up to a big total. Looks like he's going to get away with this fraud with relatively little blowback except his reputation blown apart.

this makes me wonder too. people seem awfully quick to trust total unknowns with private keys if there's a physical coin at the end of it. that seems kinda weird to me.

hope this guy gets nailed to the wall eventually but i ain't holding my breath.

Mark still owes me alot of coin. I have still to receive 2 gold 1OZ coins, 3 silver 2OZ coins, and he emptied 1 25LTC coin that I still own. (That totals about 7000€ +, only counting current face value, 0 premium)

I really want to do something about it. I'm in Belgium. But unfortunately I don't have alot of funds and time to do something about it, with the risk of not getting anything back.

Anyone have tips of what I can do? Or if someone has a plan of making him account for his wrongdoings, I want to help out/participate. (In legal fashion)

Has anyone in his country or area asked the local authorities to get invoked to investigate him?  I would think accusations of theft, fraud, and embezzlement would be worthy of their followup.

Just found this thread and I have also lost a single litecoin I had on a Coinographic 1ltc coin. The only one of their coins I have thank god.

http://block-explorer.com/address/LVnaHgXQH7CoV4f8xYoCoGVN4dKW8hMxdq

It also went to: LKQ75Dsz8ZHPhedZtCpbKnYvaRvxYQ2Bdk

Damn he / they must be desperate to be raiding single coins.

Thieving fucking scumbag(s), feel bad for anyone that's lost any money >:(.

I hate to say it, but there is little to zero chance whatsoever that you'll ever see the coins you have paid for. Mark Hamilton has gone quiet, he's somewhere in the UK, but I have no idea where.

You may have legal recourse but what are the chances you'll even get anything out of it? Don't forget, just like your 25LTC, he sweeped the private key from every single coin, including 1LTC...

Good luck getting your money back from someone who does such things.

I think the police will find it very hard to investigate these sorts of crimes unless you hand them all the detail on a fine silver plate. All those crimes are definitely worth investigating, but there is so much of it going on and cyber crime tends to be even harder to solve, that the police might be using their resources elsewhere. One person should compile a list of everyone who has been affected, their contact details and the amount they lost. It should be easy to find a hundred people affected and then the police will pay more attention to it.

I think my post is a good place to start. Personally I would just visit his mother, take all documents showing that Mark is a scammer, make a bit of a scene there and call the police. They will be forced to come down and at least write down her (and his) details. If several people file reports it is very likely that they'll start an investigation.

Cheers for that TheNewAnon135246.

Drax, there's about as much info that you'll be able to acquire around here.

For the amount, I'd personally consider doing something about it. But...
Remember that you're dealing with someone who has blatantly stolen from hundreds of people, and is already the recipient of Court Judgement/s against them.
Personally I wouldn't hold out hope. But I wish you luck in obtaining justice nonetheless.

~Z

Just caught up on state of affairs. Disappointing disgusting betrayal of the collectors club.

Its my belief you wont recover anything through the legal system and will need to take matters into your own hands.

Rather than sit back and let this behaviour run rampant, I believe you will need to make it clear that borders are no barriers. It needs to be proven that you are not beyond the law and we must deter any others planning or considering the action. This kind of treachery sticks with you for life and you will never sleep comfortably knowing there are those who wish to reclaim their funds.

I am very familiar with debt collection and can assist in this field.

Can someone give me an estimated $ worth of stolen funds?

Not sure about the total value, but it looks like at least one person is in court proceedings against him over at LTCtalk. For anyone who has been affected, it might be worth trying to contact this person (https://archive.litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=20417.msg263397#msg263397)

Wow - this has just been bought to my attention.

I have a buddy who deals with debt collection, not a court Bailiff, more of an "old school" collector. If anyone wants this scumbag found and pressure put on him please drop me a PM with the amount you are out of pocket, if there is enough value combined then I can try to sort something out with my contact.

From what I remember a lot of people lost out on this.
Not only were orders not fulfilled or coins not funded, but coins eventually began to 'mysteriously' get redeemed whilst still intact.
I think I lost about 0.5-0.75BTC which is nothing compared to others. There were guys over on the LTC forums who lost a lot lot more.
I did some digging and managed to speak to them before they were wound down. There may have even been some legal action in the works but I think it was dropped. (There are a lot of threads with info people found).
Having been said now that this can also be considered a criminal case, I'm sure we could get something done to get this scumbag off the streets.

The contact I have is not the type of guy you call if you are perusing a legal case. He is more along the line of this bloke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUzlmWWdjEQ

but he is far from cheap and takes a "drink" out of every debt collected, though with crypto mooning this should not be an issue if the guy here is still holding some LTC or BTC