Bitcoin Forum

Brandingwise people just don't have the same confidence in Dashcoin as they did when it was Darkcoin - consequently it's seen by many as too high risk.

Also, there still exist deep divisions within the community about the premine - divisions which aren't helping overall morale

dash is nothing more than a shit coin right now, also, it tech is way subpar than other coins.

dash/dass = digital cash/digital ass
soon --> donkey=digital money

my recommended name for this coin is donkey ass = digital money ass ;D

darkcoin or however it will be called next year is not a decentralized entity. 
fuck this i tell you.  the things going on here are fishy, intransparent and rely on a single entity. 

Dash is laying the groundwork to become a core SuperNET coin.

Seems like just one gimmick after another to keep the hype up.  I read on their thread that they are planning on taking even more block rewards away from the miners to fund development.  Between what goes to the few people running masternodes and then whatever goes towards a development fund what is the incentive to even mine the coin.

I said a long time ago that masternodes were just a gimmick to use to put coins in the hands of a few while taking them away from miners.  It worked so good that a plethora of new scam coins have been launching nearly every day using masternodes just for that  purpose.  Masternodes have always been and always will be a centralized solution.  In DASH's case the distribution of masternodes is pathetic with one entity controlling a huge percentage and a few others controlling a majority of the rest.  Yet they still claim that DASH is decentralized.  The only people they are convincing is themselves.

That goddamn "Dash Dalmation" spamming on twitter is probably the gayest thing i've ever seen (no offense to homosexuals)

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/588874034160402432/RZc_i466.jpg

+1

There were alot of people able to overlook the premine issue as long as the tech and branding was there, but now even that is in question

That goddamn "Dash Dalmation" spamming on twitter is probably the gayest thing i've ever seen (no offense to homosexuals)

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/588874034160402432/RZc_i466.jpg

In a very short period Bitshares, Stellar and even the joke Dogecoin have passed it on marketcap. Not so long ago the cult guru told its followers it will soon rival bitcoin and take over the world. Now it seems more likely to follow Paycoins footsteps.
Is this the faith of all scams?
Is there a future at all for something which can not sustain itself above, much wow, such moon?

Im not a fan of DASH, but it's quite a stretch comparing it to Paycoin.

In a very short period Bitshares, Stellar and even the joke Dogecoin have passed it on marketcap. Not so long ago the cult guru told its followers it will soon rival bitcoin and take over the world. Now it seems more likely to follow Paycoins footsteps.
Is this the faith of all scams?
Is there a future at all for something which can not sustain itself above, much wow, such moon?

Thanks for headsup. Just opened a short. Burn motherfucker!

I knew it was good for something.

Dashcoin is a scam and all the investors are sheep following evan who instamined over 50%  of the total supply in the first week
Monero is true financial privacy.
It is fair and honest. It is the most advanced anonymous coin. It is a matter of time until the darkcoin refugees seek shelter in the superior coin.

Keep thinking that, I swear the Monero fanatics are insane they think that all the other anonymous or stealth based coins are going to die and run to Monero. Monero isn't going to be some glorious coin, it just wont and if it was and so wanted like you think I doubt peercoin would be the 15th coin on the marketcap list.

Too* and I have said this to you before which developers? Technically anyone can be a developer to bitcoin if they so wish so that proves nothing.

Okay so he has a monero address on his profile but what has he actually said about the coin that makes you think is a Believer in it? What level does he believe in? Does he want to cannibalize Monero by putting some features into bitcoin?

Okay so he has a monero address on his profile but what has he actually said about the coin that makes you think is a Believer in it? What level does he believe in? Does he want to cannibalize Monero by putting some features into bitcoin?

They went the wrong way with their masternodes and rebranding and instamine and Reference Masternode and Remote Killswitch and one-man dictatorship and HYIP scam and unlicensed MSB and toxic cult community and lack of 3rd party security auditing.

What I will say is that no one defends their coin like monero, this wasn't even a monero thread but anytime Stealth or Dash comes up it becomes one.

There are 2 ways to improve their relative social (and investment) status:
1. himself to become better, to rise above the others.
2. himself to remain in place, and belittle and tarnish all the others.

Unfortunately, some moneros hasn't the abilities and the desire to follow the path #1 (good sign for DASH) - so there is only path #2 for them.

Rux, don't bother yourself in threads like these. It is a waste of time.

i dont own any monero but i dont hate it, but monero hates DASH ... how come? we could be strong together :)

What's the deal with DASH. Why it's accused to be scam? Can someone explain to me or just past the link so I can read about it.

there is no scam, u know how everyone hates "the right" one?

that is the case here... few of guys who hate DASH because they didn't get in time are bloating it and they really don't have good arguments, except that instamine (and that is thoroughly explained by Evan, the main DEV)

DASH is not scam, dash unlike others have their DEVS by NAME, while others...i won't mention whom... are hiding their identities because they are scam

you can try it, download wallet, i will send you 0.1 to test send with instantx, check that beauty of confirmations in 15sec... and also try Darksend and figure for your self why DASH is called Digital cash :)

p.s. and why not be a Masternode operator, its so cheap now... later you will hit your self in head when you see 1 MN worth +10.000$

What's the deal with DASH. Why it's accused to be scam? Can someone explain to me or just past the link so I can read about it.

What's the deal with DASH. Why it's accused to be scam? Can someone explain to me or just past the link so I can read about it.

So ... To answer the above question.  There was a glitch in Darkcoins release that let almost half the current coins in circulation be mined by the original miners in a short period (week?).  If you choose to put parentheses around the glitch largely depends on how you feel about the developer.

Also later coin supply was significantly cut to stabilize price.

I own Monero because I like the technology behind it much better than DASH.

I do think the instant transactions, rebranding from Darkcoin and significantly rewarding the mixers (if thats the route you take to anonymize ), and able to afford dedicated 100% development are all great moves.

There is plenty of information out there about ANY coin.  If you don't know then its your own damn fault.

I simply don't care due to the coins history - it puts it in an auto "not interested" category for me.  It has lasted much longer than I thought it would ... Very very few altcoins have managed to stay in the top 10 as long as darkcoin has.  And I don't believe any other anon coin has over taken it cap wise.  So its actually doing insanely well.

If darkcoin is overtaken by two anon coins for a month you can start using "dying" in your title

the problem is:

1. their anon tech sucks so its just "another" altcoin these days
2. their branding to Dash .. Dash , really?
3. instamine

I'd add the centralisation with the masternodes is really their biggest 'current' problem...

- Instamine/premine, ok, it can happen, if people still trust it and believe the developers reasons, it can work out if the technology is good...
- Branding, whatever, marketing here and there and what's the coins name is the choice of the developers, that's ok if the technology is good
- But the masternode-system is so obviously flawed: centralisation, compromised anonimity just because of that centralisation, developing dash-aristocracy...

Without the masternode-system I actually might have supported DASH, but now it's a big no-no to me... the masternodes go against every principle of a decentralised cryptocurrency...

But still, people need to make their own choices, if it has better marketeering, if people don't really care THAT much about privacy, if they like a nice look and feel... then yes, by all means, you can use DASH...

Very few coins are truly decentralized (including Bitcoin). Just look at what is happening to Bitcoin with the departure of Gavin. Decentralization is a worthy goal, but we're not there yet.

I understand masternodes can be a concern for some users. Let me clarify about it:
 
Masternodes:

Darksend's mixing is performed by Masternodes, servers operating on a decentralized volunteer network which have the responsibility of signing the transactions. For each round of Darksend, the user selects two to eight (or even more) rounds of mixing which vary the degree of anonymity achieved. Random Masternodes are then elected to perform the coin mixing. Masternodes are trust-less, in the sense that they cannot steal user coins, and the combination of multiple Masternodes ensures that no single node has full knowledge of both inputs and outputs in the transaction process.

To avoid a "bad actor" scenario, in which many Masternodes are operated by an adversary who wants to de-anonymize transactions, a deterrent has been put in place in which 1000 Dash are required to own and operate a Masternode. As an incentive for operating a Masternode, chosen nodes currently earn 45% of the mining rewards.

More info:

http://www.dashnodes.com/index/masternodes
http://www.dashnodes.com/index/masternodes_map

I see in the charts more than 2500 masternodes placed in more than 30 countries. Centralization? Some people are early adopters, we can't change that. With 8 rounds of random mixing through masternodes, do your math to understand what you need to control the network.

And we can move masternodes easily from one country to another if we need to. The world is bigger than the US.

The masternode system provides also an instant transaction system, a governance system, and the possibility to build other stuff on top of it.  Personally i think the new "governance system" or the instant transactions are far more important than anonymity.

Dash system is not completed yet, it's a work in progress. We had forks and all kind of issues in the past and of course we will have problems in the future. It is a risk investment.

Some people think cryptonote system is better, maybe it is. Do your own research.

It is legitimate to dislike the masternode system, of course. Insults (see Adam post above) are not.


Thread about masternode system in dashtalk:
https://dashtalk.org/threads/which-masternode-model-should-we-implement.4115

(excuse my grammar and vocabulary mistakes, english is my third language)

Why do dashers not think people get masternodes and that's why they think they are awful for privacy? If a governmental agency can afford to buy enough nodes to break TOR's anonymity (they did and can), why couldn't they afford to buy enough masternodes to break dash's anonymity, buy or intimidate the people who already own them, or go to Amazon (who they already work with) and get information from the hosts themselves on who is running the masternodes and where to "contact" them. If dash ever got close to Bitcoin's level this would be the easiest way to break dash's anonymity and comes straight from the NSA's thin-thread playbook--apparently Evan and his Devs skipped a few chapters in Cryptocurrency for Dummies.

these are legitimate concerns. And I can understand that.

Nobody can't afford to buy enough master nodes, it's too expensive, ?and we would notice that?. Instead they can create bitcoin nodes (for free) to do the same.

The initial distribution was not definitely under the radar of the NSA. Just because the masternodes didn't exist, not even the project or the intention of doing something like that. Just check the main thread. As I said in other threads, Darkcoin was just another shitcoin at the begining (with a very skilled dev behind).

an NSA operation would definitely disable other masternodes to funnel transactions to the masternodes they control.

This is an interesting debate.

I agree that the NSA can kill Dash, and Dash is finished. And I am sure they can kill Bitcoin too, but I am sure they cannot kill Dash without we would realize. I am not so sure about Bitcoin.

Check the masternodes/country here:

http://www.dashnodes.com/index/charts

26% US
25% Germany
20% France
13% Netherlands
etc.

With all US masternodes under control the NSA cannot denonimize the transactions. Let's do alternative scenarios:

1.- They buy XXXX Dash to create new masternodes (we can do the math to find the exact number is necessary to do it, it's a lot). The market goes crazy, we would realize. They control the network but they can't know past transactions (Masternodes don't do that, users are secure). Dash is finished

2.- They can "invade" or "hack" us the poor Europeans (France, Germany, Netherlands, etc.) get access to our accounts in our european servers. We would realize (yes, we would), they can control the network, they can't control the past transactions (Masternodes don't do that, users are secure). Dash is finished

I think the NSA can kill, but they can't control the Dash network. How you see it?



(excuse my grammar and vocabulary mistakes, english is my third language)

Some European countries share meta data with US agencies and even have more power to capture data than even the US due to less strict rules on spying agencies, but that doesn't diminish that foreign servers are sometimes owned by American companies already working with the US government or that can be forced, coerced, or bribed into supplying information.  Never mind that Dash's Dev Evan has too much power over Dash direction (and its assets) and can be coerced by US operations to help or hinder Dash with the mere threat of a FinCen investigation or a compliance document similar to those that were used in Prism to get some of the biggest companies in the world to hand over unbridled access to data--either you don't get how much of a vestige interest all countries have in controlling information and finances or you overestimate dash's ability to cope with these measures.

How would you realize the network is compromised if Evan was coerced into working with investigators? Cut the head off the snake and it dies, control it and you can decide where the venom goes.

Her would be my gameplan if I wanted to control Dash:

If Patriot Act rules are engaged, I would send a letter of complicity to Evan and have him work with my agency to glean as much information from the network while also creating more backdoors to glean information. If he chooses to fight the complicity order, I would green light a FinCen or SEC or FBI investigation with the power and scope of this investigation dependent on if he plays ball or not. If there weren't Patriot Act rules in play, I would move immediately to step two. The goal would be to control dash, not to destroy it.  

I don't know the other players in Dash, but thanks to the instamine, they seem like a small group and most likely could be gotten to and forced to comply. To put the risk to US power in perspective: Gadaffi was had an army and lived in his own country and vast wealth, but expelled from power and put to death after he talked about not accepting US dollars for oil. Do you think can pin your replacing all the world's currency hopes on a guy who lives in Arizona, couldn't get the details of coin launch in order, doesn't understand  (or care) that masternodes are major attack vector for a cryptocurrency, and renames his coin every five months? That guy can be gotten to and i'm pretty sure it doesn't take a expensive revolution to do it.

Some European countries share meta data with US agencies and even have more power to capture data than even the US due to less strict rules on spying agencies, but that doesn't diminish that foreign servers are sometimes owned by American companies already working with the US government or that can be forced, coerced, or bribed into supplying information.  Never mind that Dash's Dev Evan has too much power over Dash's direction (and its assets) and can be coerced by US operations to help or hinder Dash with the mere threat of a FinCen investigation or a compliance document similar to those that were used in Prism to get some of the biggest companies in the world to hand over unbridled access to data--either you don't get how much of a vestige interest all countries have in controlling information and finances or you overestimate Dash's ability to cope with these measures.

How would you realize the network is compromised if Evan was coerced into working with investigators? Cut the head off the snake and it dies, control it and you can decide where the venom goes.

Here would be my gameplan if I wanted to control Dash:

If Patriot Act rules are engaged, I would send a letter of complicity to Evan and have him work with my agency to glean as much information from the network while also creating more backdoors to glean information. If he chooses to fight the complicity order, I would green light a FinCen or SEC or FBI investigation with the power and scope of this investigation dependent on if he plays ball or not. If there weren't Patriot Act rules in play, I would move immediately to step two. The goal would be to control Dash, not to destroy it.  

I don't know the other players in Dash, but thanks to the instamine, they seem like a small group and most likely could be gotten to and forced to comply. To put the risk to US power in perspective: Gadaffi had an army and lived in his own country and had vast personal wealth, but was expelled from power and put to death after he talked about not accepting US dollars for oil. Do you think you can pin your replacing-all-the-world's-currency hopes on a guy who lives in Arizona, couldn't get the details of his coin launch in order, doesn't understand  (or care) that masternodes are a major attack vector for a cryptocurrency, and renames his coin every five months? That guy can be gotten to and i'm pretty sure it doesn't take a needlessly expensive revolution to do it.

How would you realize the network is compromised if Evan was coerced into working with investigators?

Good answer! Quite a work kill Dash in your gameplay, right? NSA, Secret Service, Patriot Act and threaten Evan. All without a single leak of information.  Not bad!

Assuming your scenario, let me tell you a little secret: Evan is not alone anymore. UdjinM6 is a core developer from Russia, and he is as much talented as Evan (you can check Github about that). And I am not sure UdjinM6 would agree about spying for the NSA. You know, russians are tough guys.

And I am not sure NSA can go to Russia and force UdjinM6 to cooperate to control Dash, you know Putin is a person of temper.


Dash is open source! And Dash is not Evan.  Evan can write it, but you can check and review the code. UdjinM6, Flare, Crowning, elbereth, Francis, etc. All the members of the Dash community and the general public can check the code.
And this is bad for backdoors and is good for transparency.


(excuse my grammar and vocabulary mistakes, english is my third language)

There is not ba big chance that anonimity coins s will fly off big, exactly because of anonimity. The only ones that will de it are the black markets in the end..

Also, coins that employ view keys will be as private and as voluntarily reviewable as cash.

But this is all off-topic--I don't really care if dash is dying or not--i just can't listen to the flawed logic of its privacy argument.

If a governmental agency can afford to buy enough nodes to break TOR's anonymity (they did and can), why couldn't they afford to buy enough masternodes to break dash's anonymity

Why don't you send GMaxwell your poster so he can hang it on his wall as a token of your unheralded genius after he takes his XMR address off his profile page.

Listen up! Use a clear blockchain to buy drugs, sex, gambling, evade your taxes, send donations to political dissidents.....

....because Toknormal amateur economist said that opaque blockchains will never work because people are too stupid to trust math

In a very short period Bitshares, Stellar and even the joke Dogecoin have passed it on marketcap. Not so long ago the cult guru told its followers it will soon rival bitcoin and take over the world. Now it seems more likely to follow Paycoins footsteps.
Is this the faith of all scams?
Is there a future at all for something which can not sustain itself above, much wow, such moon?

In case you're referring to Operation Onymous, I thought it wasn't known how they found the hidden services' real IP's? I'm not following news regarding TOR very closely though so maybe they have disclosed their methods since.

Is there proof somewhere that they have been "buying TOR nodes" and how does that help to break its anonymity?

1.Because cryptographers don't define money. Users and markets do and the only reason they need to worry about privacy is because they have something of value. 2. If there's no value proposition in the first place then nobody gives a f* about privacy, no matter how much you scream about cryptographic proofs and mathematical certainty.

Contrary to what you allude to in your posts it doesn't work the other way around unfortunately.


3."clear blockchain" is money - and yes, they're going to need money to pay for those things. As far as their anonymity goes, they'll be slightly more worried about divulging a delivery address than an anonymous cryptocurrency address.


4. Well I don't have any problem agreeing on the first of those points. As far as people "not trusting math", we can probably even agree on that as well. Unless they see results that mean something to them * most people wouldn't trust math as far as they could "notionally" throw it  ;)

5.* (In modern electronic 'money' with no trusted third party, that means "where did my money come from and where did it go")

Sorry to tell you that that cryptographers and mathematicians define whether a cryptosystem is strong or weak

Don't be sorry because that's a very different thing from defining what is and isn't "money" which - I reiterate - is a much more nebulous process in the absence of trusted counterparties and one that is ultimately arbitrated on by public consensus.

If you measure everything in terms of degree of cryptographic obfuscation of the public blockchain then all you'll get is the best "obfuscated blockchain". Good luck with that because monetary media derive both their consensual existence and value from a whole lot of properties, none of which is obscurity.

Fungibility is, however, an integral property of monetary media and you don't improve fungibility by implementing "strong cryptographic obfuscation" between one address and another on the blockchain. All you do is frustrate people who regard that as an essential element of public accountability, prepare the ground for scams and heists and generally kill confidence.

Dash has improved Bitcoin's fungibility in the most optimal way any approach could have while preserving transparency and confidence. It does it in exactly the way that traditional cash does.

Somebody earlier in this thread said they were surprised at how long Dash had lasted in the "top 10" and noted that despite their preference and the subject line of this thread, Dash was doing "insanely well".

In fact there was no need to be surprised - Dash is the only public blockchain which improves on Bitcoin's fungibility by orders of magnitude.

Privacy in crypto calls for different cryptographic priorities from what privacy in fiat does. Some things are necessarily more public, others are more private. Cryptonote simply sends up back to the dark ages with the old fiat model again which is why it's seen zero adoption and next to zero development in more than a year other than its bare existence.

Get real and stop harping on about garbage non-arguments that are well past their sell by date such as instamines, centralisation that isn't, amazon servers and the faux innovation that is invisible blockchains.
 

Lots of new people catching onto what a scam DASH really is, its good to see.  Enough people have been scammed in cryptos short life.

instamine? so what? EVAN deserve to be a milioner

If you could argue me point for point the way i did you without reflecting evasively back to arguments a few posts back

You did not.

You quoted me point for point and then promoted your usual random nonsense at each one about the strength of cryptography and the importance of privacy as if anyone's challenging it.

I'm sorry to tell you that what you're bagholding is a cryptographic bookkeeping system that isn't money, though it doesn't surprise me since you don't appear to have much appreciation as to the significant differences between fiat and crypto as far as privacy is concerned.

As far as your equally inaccurate statements about "centralisation" goes, be advised that any function that's redundantly reproducible cannot be described as 'centralised' despite the best efforts of a little band of jaundiced propagandists rattling around in their self indulgent threads.

If you really feel so comfortable in dismissing the challenges that Dash's approaches are addressing so successfully then maybe you should take a look at the latest litany of squabble threads in the Bitcoin Core vs Bitcoin XT saga and the spectacle of "celebrity devs" warring over the relative merits of a rock and a hard place.

Then again, that might distract you from your hobby of recycling stale agendas and have little relevance to endorsing your delusions about the relationship between "privacy" and "value" in crypto.

It doesn't matter if you have a guy on the moon as a Dev; you still have the masternode problem, which is too many are owned by too few and encouraged to keep the number of nodes at 1000. And the biggest holder is most likely Evan who can be easily be gotten to, and if even he couldn't be (or was out as a Dev), most masternodes are currently on Amazon servers--Amazon!--a company known to work with the NSA. And even if none of this were true, you still depend on humans to not do stupid things like run masternodes on Amazon servers--this is an inherent weakness in any system that requires human best practices to be followed in most cases. Why? Most humans are worried about themselves and their costs, not worrying about the network and the residual cost to everyone else--in short, some humans are selfish and won't care that the system breaks as long as they are getting there's, while other humans are ignorant of how their actions might break a network and will do so unknowingly--this is why good cryptosystems don't use things like masternodes.

Lets be honest, unless I actually do it or have done it, you will always weasel out of the argument with rationalizations that protect your investment in your head--there's no way for you to know that Evan or the majority of masternodes were compromised in all situations and that would be the start of the end for current Dash. Hell, the NSA could be gleaning transaction info off the Amazon servers right now and no one but Amazon and the NSA would know.

And this part isn't for Aleix; he's already made his choice and is intent on riding it till it sinks. Anyone who cares about their privacy should only have confidence in cryptosystems that are decentralized and do not depend on humans or humans following best practices to maintain their security/privacy. This is an easy rule that saves you from having to come up with infinite attack vectors for infinite solutions for a problem that will infinitely follow a system built in this flawed way.

The majority of the masternodes are not in amazon servers, and anyone can check it here:

Funny that the most of the places listed on the masternode list are locations of Amazon servers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Web_Services

If you don't want me to think masternodes are being created on Amazon servers, you should tell your dash buddies to stop making threads like this:

https://dashtalk.org/threads/reubens-masternode-setup-service-with-amazon-ec2-one-time-fee.4441/

This is not, again, about "believing something", this is a fact:

http://www.dashnodes.com/index/masternodes/?sorts%5Bisp%5D=1&perPage=100

Use your fingers and count. I did.   ;)

This doesn't prove that they aren't being run on amazon servers--check the wiki on amazon server locations. Also, why are so many nodes not receiving transactions and others receiving so many? Are they being attacked already?  ;)

(citation needed)

Citation? Look at the list you linked me to--there are a lot of nodes with 0 transaction and lot more being run off of corporate servers that are most likely working with their local spying agency. Europe and America share spy data last time i checked. This is what i mean about trusting people to follow best practices--they don't.

ok, I really enjoyed our conversation. If you want to spread FUD (without understanding the basics of the masternode system and assuming some paranoic statements without any proof)  i'm out.

btw. I still waiting a comment about this:

Attacking The Consensus System via Sybil attack
https://www.dashpay.io/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/InstantTX.pdf

There are other methods of attacks, so addressing one attack does not address them all. I did comment on this above, but i think you responded as I was revising it, so you missed it. [1]

I'm researching the masternode list you linked me to earlier; it's more telling than you think. Thanks for providing it.[2]

[1] "There are other methods of attacks, so addressing one attack does not address them all" is like saying nothing.

Please be specific, then maybe I can help you or guide you  to someone who can help (or maybe you are adressing a new vector attack that we need to cover, that would be very welcomed!)

[2] Masternodes are public (for now), you are welcome!

1. start here you lazy dasher--I joke, at least you're trying  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1001642.660

2. A little too public as i'm finding out.  ;)

yep, but if you do the calculation using just one round it's still a huge number of days.

As for complete transactions, I agree that's not included....but I was answering your 'gun in the crowd' point, which has a probabilty of near 1, which is astronomically different to the proabilities we're talking about here.


ok i'll do it then :)

with 15% of the network compromised and just one round of darksend per transaction the probability is 3.32526E-17 or .0000000000000000332526

mutiply by 1,000,000 for transactions per day (which is a really big number of darksend transactions, by the way):

.0000000000332526

and divide into 1 for number of days to get a complete transaction:

30072836410

Sad that so many people take these Trollero attack threads seriously, including Dash supporters.  Although I admit I did when they first started too.

The idea is (obviously) just to keep a thread bumped at the top of the alt-discussion board saying "Dash is a SCAM$(*&#@" or whatever, just like Monero is the only coin to keep a "speculation" thread bumped on the same board, with Generalize, Icebreaker (aka Eduardo de Castro Hashfast scammer / head Monero troll), G2M, debryune, wpalczynski, Smooth (Monero fake-core dev come mega-troll), FluffyPony (Monero lead-"dev" aka ex-journalist / Vertpay.com / MyMonero.com / PayBee.com / OpenRigs scammer), and all the usual trolls now in their 2nd year of posting the same tired garbage about 10,000 XMR pizzas and "it doesn't matter we are an unfinished-clone of Bytecoin and didn't add any features in 1 year and the wallet doesn't work because if you believe and troll hard enough, and ignore that it's a sh*tcoin-clone with zero development, Monero is the next Bitcoin!!!".  

Same as the other ~20 attack-Dash threads being pushed by Monero users/core-devs since Darkcoin implemented instant transactions and rebranded to actually take on Bitcoin thus leaving Monero with a big-empty "Anon-coin" bag.

Now Bytecoin has owned Monero, they are still here attacking their other competitors like Dash, one of the top alts with largest community and most unique development / innovation, while Monero's cut-and-paste wallet is now 1 year behind Bytecoin with no GUI / non-volatile blockchain, and they have got burned for it big time, but they don't care lol :)

Keep going Trollero®

Tok, you should give that fungibility lecture to the guys who ripped off evolution--they could have just sent it to BTCe and that would have been the end to it.

I do enjoy how you argue with things i didn't say and don't actually refute things that I did say--neat trick. Did they teach you that infographic school?  ;D

But those are the rules, so here:

Until you can use math to disprove the validity of cryptonote transactions, you're just a word salad machine intent on using FUD tactics in a world ruled by cryptographers and mathematicians. Why don't you send GMaxwell your poster so he can hang it on his wall as a token of your unheralded genius after he takes his XMR address off his profile page. Listen up everyone, the cryptonote protocol was just broken by a poster, not math, a poster! Yes, you heard right. It wasn't the mathematicians or cryptographers who have looked over the code, but a lone man who had the insight to make graphics and quote himself with his brilliant, but not shared by anyone else, views of money. Listen up! Use a clear blockchain to buy drugs, sex, gambling, evade your taxes, send donations to political dissidents, buy your wife a dildo, or pay for your gay sons wedding, because Toknormal amateur economist said that opaque blockchains will never work because people are too stupid to trust math and won't ever trust what they can't see. Never mind that you would have seen evidence of cryptonote coins deflating or inflating  in number based on the code creating improper transactions, coin inflation and deflation that would be easily noticed and have exchanges and users screaming bloody murder, never mind all that, because some random guy declared himself an economist and says nobody will trust a system that is verified over and over and over again by math.

Your stupidity is exhausting.

thanks for the bump dude  ;)

best regards

thanks for the bump dude  ;)

best regards

You are losing the discussion dude. I can bump it myself again.  :-*

A wise man once told me that if you have to tell people you are right, you're mostly wrong...

bump it!

best regards

A wise man once told me that if you have to tell people you are right, you're mostly wrong...

bump it!

best regards

A wise man once told me that if you have to tell people you are right, you're mostly wrong...

bump it!

best regards

He didn't go by the name Chad Kroeger, did he?

:D

yep, but if you do the calculation using just one round it's still a huge number of days.

As for complete transactions, I agree that's not included....but I was answering your 'gun in the crowd' point, which has a probabilty of near 1, which is astronomically different to the proabilities we're talking about here.


ok i'll do it then :)

with 15% of the network compromised and just one round of darksend per transaction the probability is 3.32526E-17 or .0000000000000000332526

mutiply by 1,000,000 for transactions per day (which is a really big number of darksend transactions, by the way):

.0000000000332526

and divide into 1 for number of days to get a complete transaction:

30072836410

In a very short period Bitshares, Stellar and even the joke Dogecoin have passed it on marketcap. Not so long ago the cult guru told its followers it will soon rival bitcoin and take over the world. Now it seems more likely to follow Paycoins footsteps.
Is this the faith of all scams?
Is there a future at all for something which can not sustain itself above, much wow, such moon?

--Over 95% of the masternodes are on servers owned by companies located in 5 countries. If dash ever surpassed the market cap levels of Bitcoin it would threaten global monetary supply and certainly gain the inquisitiveness of LEA worldwide who would gladly share data in order to prosecute criminals or those that threatened their monopoly of wealth. This shouldn't be made this easy. This is further proof that cryptosystems that rely on users to follow best practices are relying on failure.

Currently people run their masternodes on Amazon et al. because it's just so easy and cheap to do so as the reward of running one ($40/month or so) isn't big enough to put in more effort.

But let's analyze the scenario you described where LEA's might start getting interested, and consider how the numbers might change.

Let's assume using round numbers DASH has market cap of current Bitcoin $3,000,000,000, has 6,000,000 coins, and that there are 3000 masternodes, and that the block reward is 5 DASH of which 45% goes the masternodes. One masternode would then collect 13 DASH / month on average, which would equal to $6,500 earned each month. Now we are starting to talk about the kind of money which would allow people to purchase DDOS protection and private dedicated servers, and hiring professionals to secure them. And someone running 10+ nodes could easily set up their own datacenter and retire.

Also, who's to say DASH mixing stays exactly the same as it is now, it's been improved during the last year and I don't see why it would stop being improved. An example of an improvement would be that masternodes couldn't see which inputs and ouputs belong to the same user, so even if you owned 100% of the nodes that wouldn't help you to find out whose coins went where in any of the mixing rounds.

What a nice research!

And now, please, you can talk about this:

Attacking The Consensus System via Sybil attack
https://www.dashpay.io/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/InstantTX.pdf


And this:


thank you,

Yet, the DRK I drksent to someone else is still forever recorded in my wallet with that person's public address. Even after importing it on a different computer. Imagine if they got my wallet dump?

Regardless of the inbetween, the end points are what we're talking about here. But that's okay anyways:

If my private key was capable of being compromised by TLA's, here's the transaction they would select, simply for no other reason other than that it  'looks' like a darksend transation, because it's creating darksend denominations: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/tx.dws?4fbe96210f828f5fbfd1c4859217d8fd76b2d3344325ec0ceae3d0cf1efd5ffd.htm

Then, when parsing the blockchain for those output addresses, they'd deftly reveal the private key to reveal if they've been spent, or just look for it on the blockchain. Because they're a TLA, they're interested in larger amounts first. Let's pick one of the 10 drk denominations:

Here's the first denomination of 10 that's gonna be my 10 drk to drksent. I know it's mine because it's an address that was in the last transaction:

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/tx.dws?7c7cde0076f0169f42b7a6ee863d4a24929d33c4558e5123a8a9cd415cc8d607.htm
    6   4fbe96210f828f5f...:26   XfeJKzKEJUtVDYvuv7vF9jJKkF3Dx23ft6   10.0001 DASH

Anyways, let's say that out of those 9, XcRHvNsezZzKB6U7sejx2EPUKjkFkrSEm3 is the address that correlates to me. It goes to this tx: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/tx.dws?1655733.htm

Because we're dealing with a situation where rsa/ecc are compromisable in the first place, I'd simply just go ahead and plug into all of the masternodes because encryption is bunk. Seeing as how their IP's are easily discoverable and public knowledge, I'd simply go ahead and sign into it as a remote user, because again cryptography/encryption just doesn't hold up anymore and then I'd go ahead and reveal all of their private keys to myself.

Next, I'd take the second transaction above, that was sent to a masternode and dump the private keys for all of those transactions (for luls). We have 9 transactions, being sent off on some time interval to some other masternode

So, when I'd like to discover when a masternode has sent someone some return DRK, I can just say "OH well I received this guy's 10 DRK, then sent it off to the next node". So I'd go ahead and see where that 10 DRK got sent to, because, you know, more cryptography. Basically I'd set up a table of masternode keys and just simply walk myself through the transactions one by one, until ... it leaves the masternode addresses (it would be insanely profitable, so how could I not?).

Anyways, from there it's pretty safe to say that the output address would be the same user as the three addresses above.

Finally here, I sent 29.0 of the mixed darksend: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/tx.dws?8ce9862e053bce9272f023a4c2654a30edaf6118dd430b6391e611e26ceb84b9.htm

For which, we will pick both of the 10 drk denominations which are from this transaction (also, this absolutely confirms that these inputs are from one person, which means 20 of the transactions in this are the same person): https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/tx.dws?8ce9862e053bce9272f023a4c2654a30edaf6118dd430b6391e611e26ceb84b9.htm

So going to the input side of that tx, just look for the only other tx that's capable of having >20 inputs, which is this transaction: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/tx.dws?1655916.htm, (c7a33d66547c65fa39b9a10511c5827c0353f6507c107118adae5bbc0d65da98)

EDIT: Wow, copying and pasting is balls, sorry for what I'm sure is the flame trail after this post that I didnt even read up to yet):
  (Follow those 20 inputs to the next tx - https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/tx.dws?1655874.htm
  ( Then once more - https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/tx.dws?1655733.htm)
  (and bam link

Stealth addressing - you'd have an absolutely miserable time doing what I just did if you used stealth addresses as well. Then they'd really need to get those private keys to make the work much less harder.

Of course, this is mostly useless. Likely compromised keys would be used to just spend unspent output, and steal. Because crypto's not going anywhere fast. Nobody cares much about the private financial history of something like a DRK or and XMR user. I'm really just compromising private keys for luls, because the lack of stealth addressing and knowing that change goes to the miners makes identification of the actual money trivial to identify.

Now that I've spent this godawful amount of time doing this, can someone please return the favor and walk me through the same thing for XMR? Preferrably someone that favors DRK, yet is curious about XMR. If not that's fine.

Also, Because it took me much less time to actually trace my tx, than it actually took to complete the tx (I spent a lot of time waiting), this means real-time monitoring is a possibility, therefore not fungible if private keys are compromisable.

Oh, god, 60 replies since I started writing this. I haven't read any of them since I quoted illodin

ah crap, you got me,

unbump please

Not one person from Monero will ever dare to address my points like above ^ I have been posting recently so I will just bump for visibility.

Monero - Don't mention the fake clone-coin with zero-innovation or development™

To stay on topic - You might want to pick a sh*tcoin in the top 20 / 30 coins to accuse of dying instead of one of the top alts with biggest community / volume / gains lol.

what points to address? your 'points' are pretty superficial when compared to what GenerelazeThis is discussing... Your points have almost nothing to do with the technology itself. You just give your (subjective) opinion that there isn't enough progress... To my (also subjective) liking there is progress, just not the visible and marketable kind... I'm glad the developers are working on good technology instead of relying on fast solutions that aren't that good (GeneralizeThis is proving that there are 'problems' with the anonimity, privacy, centralisation with DasH). And then he didn't even have to talk about the instamine...

your arguments are: monero is a clone, there is no progress...
my points: there are lots of clones so who cares, there is progress, just not the very visible kind...

this is not a discussion based on objective arguments though... I have the impression that every legitimate discussion about dash's (flawed) technology ends with: "you're just a monero-fanboy, stop whining, do something for yourself, you haven't got a gui wallet, you're not making progress... " Resorting to these kind of arguments when there's no defending the technology anymore is intellectually kinda weak...

best regards

"Dash is a SCAM$

you're making it quite easy indeed  ;)

Monero - Dash is a SCAM$^$%#^&!!!!!™

Never heard that from a Monero troll before  ???

All those people who mined the last 12 months now in 20x profit, they didn't know they have been scammed lol ;)

I really don't get why Monero trolls hate Dash/byte/basically other coins that they "feel" is danger to their so called "we believe we are the new wealthy humans on EARTH"...relax ppl remember you will be become rich without trolling other coins here let me give you a list of how to do so...
1. Stop acting like Monero is something when it's just a copy of Byte.
2. Ask Fluffypony or Smooth to do some actual work instead of flaming Dash or any other coin they feel burned with.
3. Stop attacking someone who actually did something to crypto and actually added new idea's and did some innovative ways. Don't like? THEN DO SOMETHING ELSE
4. When I say doing something about it I actually mean create something new to crypto that can wow me as an investor or as crypto geek!
5. Get you're own GUI WALLET.
6. Stop creating new accounts and raid forums you know that ppl are smart enough to realize this...cmon DASH/TASH? or - really...I thought you guys are smarter than that.
7. How about instead of creating new threads about other coins and how BAD are they why don't you go back to you're moderated forum and fix some of Monero's issues? better how about being active as community because AFAIK Fluffypony and Smooth or any current Monero developer didn't add anything or have a road map.
8. There are over 2.5m DASH coins alrdy locked on Masternodes price of Dash is more stable than Monero cat bounces, so trust me watching charts and posting Dogecoin passed DASH just now and it will be dead soon every time it passes Dash by 1$ is stupid and everyone here knows it except Monero trolls...like imagine someone post FAIRCOIN just passed Monero it will die soon stupid right? but we all know it won't be dead bcuz Faircoin passes it or not it will go down bcuz current developers are lazy and have no clue about crypto except cry"p"to other coins on forums.

 

I really don't get why Monero trolls hate Dash/byte/basically other coins that they "feel" is danger to their so called "we believe we are the new wealthy humans on EARTH"...relax ppl remember you will be become rich without trolling other coins here let me give you a list of how to do so...
1. Stop acting like Monero is something when it's just a copy of Byte.
2. Ask Fluffypony or Smooth to do some actual work instead of flaming Dash or any other coin they feel burned with.
3. Stop attacking someone who actually did something to crypto and actually added new idea's and did some innovative ways. Don't like? THEN DO SOMETHING ELSE
4. When I say doing something about it I actually mean create something new to crypto that can wow me as an investor or as crypto geek!
5. Get you're own GUI WALLET.
6. Stop creating new accounts and raid forums you know that ppl are smart enough to realize this...cmon DASH/TASH? or - really...I thought you guys are smarter than that.
7. How about instead of creating new threads about other coins and how BAD are they why don't you go back to you're moderated forum and fix some of Monero's issues? better how about being active as community because AFAIK Fluffypony and Smooth or any current Monero developer didn't add anything or have a road map.
8. There are over 2.5m DASH coins alrdy locked on Masternodes price of Dash is more stable than Monero cat bounces, so trust me watching charts and posting Dogecoin passed DASH just now and it will be dead soon every time it passes Dash by 1$ is stupid and everyone here knows it except Monero trolls...like imagine someone post FAIRCOIN just passed Monero it will die soon stupid right? but we all know it won't be dead bcuz Faircoin passes it or not it will go down bcuz current developers are lazy and have no clue about crypto except cry"p"to other coins on forums.

 

I dont think anyone hate Dash, we just laugh at its incompetence.
Price of Dash will always be as the pre-mining barons will decide. They can keep it stable, they can pump it or they can dump it.

I really don't get why scammer trolls hate Monero when they "feel" it's a danger to their so called "we believe we are the new wealthy humans on EARTH" ... I mean you all should just relax, take your % and realize you will become rich without trolling Monero. Here let me give you a list of how to do so:

1. Stop pretending that the codebase that Monero was built on hasn't been >80% refactored
2. Ask Duff or whatever other poopcoin dev to stop focusing on all these gimmicks they have time for because they just took whatever work was done on BTC and rolled with it. I mean, Dash and the others are just copies of that anyways. Sure must be nice to spend all that time on gimmicks when real devs have already done the important things in the core.
3. Stop defending people who have done nothing for crypto and haven't added new ideas and have instead just taken ideas from other people and put them in a live network instead of putting them into a testnet like they should have. Oops, guess there's no profit there to take peoples money for ideas that other people were too sophisticated to rip people off. Maybe then you wouldn't have 50% of the coins pouring out in an hour.
4. When we say people should do something about it, what we mean is that they should come up with brilliant ideas and implement them like openalias. Better yet, try taking over a coin you feel is a scam, or has serious need of help, rather than plaster the forum with your weak ass attempt at starting with a fresh genesis block. Like Vertoe and current Monero developers did.
5. Your shitty dev didn't code the fucken bitcoin wallet. Stop pretending that it's okay to convict one person as a cloner then praise your dev for doing the same. Double standards much? How can anyone take you seriously?
6. Stop pretending that theres a man behind the curtain of one particular coin creating accounts to piss you off. People have done this since before the internet was even an idea. Realize that you're being faced with someone who doesn't have your best interests at heart, because for all you know it's your own marketing team.
7. How about instead of responding the the threads, the concerns are instead responded to and engaged directly instead of bringing up everything else under the sun. Maybe then you could realize that a lot of the half-assed Monero architecture and passing off as complete only you don't because it doesn't have ponzi-nodes you're already running on your busted ass desktop might get made into something useful because you'll take these things you learn to your shitty dev. Or, you know, maybe actually take a look at the road map that actually exists. It's filled with all sorts of vaporware you can't even comment on because you don't even understand what you're arguing about in the first place.
8. Stop pretending that stability is possible for something with a 5x higher emission, and instead try to realize what the graph would look like if the Monero block reward was actually 2.5 xmr right now. Because that's what it would be if both dash and xmr had the same emission. Or, rather, imagine what the dash chart would look like if the block reward was 25 dash/block instead of 5. The price is cheap now, for you. Because Monero cares. For you. But not forever.

Everything just seems like a desperate attempt to fud on Monero.

I think we all know what coin is "dying in front of everyone's eyes" right now and it sure ain't Dash.

https://i.imgur.com/CEIVRAm.jpg


And here I thought it wasn't gonna be a Monero Marketing thread.

Here's one to hold you over, Still searching for Fluffy's domination post.

Here you go Aleix,  ;D

After your're done refuting my last three posts, we can start again. I'm not getting paid to do research you should have done before you invested in this coin.

v 3 posts down--thought you'd like seeing the classy responses from dashers too.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zufu1/a_great_podcast_by_lets_talk_bitcoin_discussing/

Please be specific, then maybe I can help you or guide you  to someone who can help (or maybe you are adressing a new vector attack that we need to cover, that would be very welcomed!)

I'm really sorry for author's time wasted on this "research" but this is a complete nonsense at the first place: your private keys never moves from your wallet to MNs and none of MNs has any control of your funds -> there are no private keys stored on MNs, nothing to dump.

But I guess I know where this confusion comes from - that Darksend mixing scheme/picture in 1st post and old whitepaper in which funds go few rounds/hops in a circle of MNs. This scheme was made even before Darkcoin review by Kristov Atlas if I remember correctly. It was outdated a long time ago and should be abandoned/refreshed - that is NOT how things work in actual code.

To address some (if any) Dash flaws one really needs to read some actual code. Though sometimes he even needs to read it from scratch after a few months because it's getting improved all the time. I would even welcome everyone to start reading new branch right now https://github.com/dashpay/dash/tree/v0.12.0.x and submit issues and/or pull requests. The more things we fix before next testing phase the better. :smile: But most trolls out there never read code nor is able to do so... so really no reason in arguing with them imo.

However I would definitely agree on few things if they were pronounced clearely:
- it's hard to do (distributed) CoinJoin right and Darksend isn't perfect yet
- the lack of proper documentation could lead (well, it actually already does lead) to confusion like that


Regarding the OP itself i.e. "Dash is dying": well, the repo is open and anyone can follow the progress of "dying" by himself https://github.com/dashpay/dash/commits/v0.12.0.x

That was a govt sponsored post IMO.

You got me!, I am James Bond and  Illodin is Moneypenny  ;D

I asked one of the core developers to answer your nonsense. Please try to keep some dignity to FUD, tnks.

Oh, I see we have a new FUD thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1077613.0

Enough for me, I'm out  ;)

No it hasn't run its course yet. It will pump/dump a few more times before the main dev steps down or gets arrested for fraud

Neither can I: AFAIK only one of those thread starters is a Monero supporter (generalizethis).

I had no idea.  It's incredible that so many people think DASH is a scam and started threads discussing the various fallacies and shortcomings.

They FUD Reference Node... Its gone now...

Hm what could they FUD now... hmm maybe Evan's hair color? well he wont change color haha

Why do you guys all hate us DASHers, what we ever did to you?