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The first presidential debate is tonight. Unlike the conventions, the debates do get quite a bit of viewership. The first 2016 debate had an average viewership of 84 million; for comparison, the Super Bowl a few months later had 111 million average viewers -- not that much higher. Most viewers are "cheering for their team", and are not particularly convinceable, though debate performance may affect enthusiasm. If you agree with everything your candidate says in the debate, but you don't see their performance as some kind of slam dunk, and the media is mixed about who actually "won", then you may be less enthusiastic and therefore less likely to vote. If you see your candidate as totally destroying the other guy, then this may really fire you up to vote.

Trump is pretty far behind Biden in the polls, so he could really use some excellent debates. It's not good enough for Trump to come out of the debates looking like the person who best made his points. It's not really helpful for Trump to come out ahead on any debates of actual issues (abortion, taxes, etc.); rather, Trump needs to make Biden not look like the safe choice. Most people who are going to vote for Biden are doing it because they don't like Trump (to varying degrees), and they view Biden as a "safe enough" return to the pre-Trump status quo. Even if Biden looks a bit weak in the debate, or he communicates his policy ideas worse, or in many cases even if viewers disagree with most of Biden's policies: if voters don't like Trump and they come out of these debates thinking that Biden looks like a normal, boring politician, then they're likely to vote for him.

The best case for Trump would be for Biden to get visibly angry and incoherent, as he has a few times on the campaign trail and in a few interviews. Maybe Trump can goad him into this, but surely Biden's campaign will have anticipated this strategy and taken every possible step to prevent it. Biden's performance in the primary debates was boring, but he didn't fall apart, and that would probably be a good enough performance here. Trump will attack Biden much more strongly than any of the Democratic candidates did, though.

If Trump can't make Biden completely fall apart, then his goals will be:
 - Have a lot of good attack lines that will fire up his base.
 - Avoid looking like a crazy, dangerous person, as this could fire up Biden's base and put off swing voters.
 - Paint Biden as dangerously radical. (Though I think it's difficult to credibly do this, since it's not how Biden comes off whatsoever.)
 - Point to the fact that Biden in many ways created the problems which caused people to resort to voting Trump in 2016
(Some of these are contradictory, so it'd be difficult to do all of them.)

A boring/ordinary debate is a Biden win, even if Trump is ultimately seen as a slight "debate winner". Trump needs to turn every policy/issue into a way of attacking Biden, and these attacks have to be really effective. I think that Trump probably won't be able to do well enough to move the needle. While Biden isn't all there mentally, IMO Trump's mental faculties have also degraded since 2016, he's in a worse political position, and Biden is more likeable than Hillary. But if Trump does pull it off, then it'll be a very interesting debate!

I don't think I've ever watched a presidential debate, as I view them as a contest for the best liar. 

But I'll be watching this one - shocking that someone can still claim they pay a lot of taxes when someone is looking at their returns and can see they did not.

$400 million in loans coming due in the next presidential term?  Trump is the kind of guy who will sell out people for money.   I would think most tax evaders are that way.

Trump really only has the first 30 minutes of the debate to make Biden stumble. People aren't going to stick around for the entire 90 minute debate. You essentially take out Trump's portion of talking and Chris Wallace's portion, you have roughly 12-15 minutes of Biden speaking time, which imo, isn't long enough for him to sound incoherent or for Trump to force Biden to stumble. Nonetheless, I expect Trump to come out swinging.

I think you're obviously right that people are looking at Joe Biden as the safe choice, I just don't know how Trump can paint Biden as a non-normal candidate. He isn't a great debater and I think Clinton outclassed him in every way last election cycle during the debates. Trump came off as unhinged, to put it mild, during the first debate against Clinton but reduced his tone and demeanor for the second and third debates which I think were better performances by miles. Trump also won't have a crowd which will hurt him -- no reactions to his witty or shocking lines..ie "you'd be in jail" to Hillary Clinton which made the crowd go insane.

Some other predictions - I think Joe Biden will obviously make the case of COVID-19 against Trump repeating the line "200k dead". Trump's best case for this probably is forcing Joe Biden to acknowledge he would not have done much different, that he listened to Dr. Fauci (very popular person among households), and that Joe Biden called Trump's travel ban racist/xeonphobic. Trump can also talk about how he provided governors with the equipment they needed when they requested for it.

Economy would be great for Trump. There is no denying that pre COVID the Trump economy was great. Record low unemployment, high stock prices, 401k growth, all the rest, yadda yadda.  I think he has a few job reports numbers that were ahead of predictions that Trump can cite post COVID which would give him a good appeal for convincing Americans that we are on the road to a V shaped recovery, GRANTED that we open up the rest of the country. Americans are opposed to lock downs, so I expect Trump to attack democrats in general on their pro lock down stances.

Other than that, I'm looking forward to watching old men that are barely alive verbally berate each other for 90 minutes which is always a blast.

Trump campaign accidentally blasted this email a few hours ago:

https://i.gyazo.com/f2e3c45b885d485f04d4aff98e3b96f1.png

LOL. Ouch, some guy is getting fired for this.


Eh I don't know about him only having the first 30 mins to do so. Most people won't even end up watching the debate, they'll just watch the highlights. But I understand where you're coming from here.

Totally agree with Theymos here though, Trump TRULY has to make Biden fuck up a ton and continue the line of 'Biden is mentally unable to be the President' while not making himself look crazy in the process. It's going to be much harder to paint him as horribly corrupt because ya know, Biden is NOT Clinton. Though Trump can point to the fact that Biden has been in government for the past 40 something yrs and nothing has changed.

30 mins folks!

Keep in mind, most people have already made up their mind on who they're going to vote for so they don't need the entire debate to make up their mind. So first impressions are going to matter. Also consider, itt's a Tuesday night and middle working class people that spend their day hard at work are going to have a short attention span. These are working people, family people, that aren't going to spend their evenings glued to the screen for an hour and a half.

These are also the people that don't bother with highlights. The average American hardly cares about politics, frankly. And I don't think the highlight reals will highlight Joe Biden's slurred speech or incoherent statements if he makes them, so that's another hurdle for Trump. He needs to make his case early and hope Joe Biden messed up early.

Ok, I honestly tried for about 2, maybe 3 minutes. Joe is stuttering, Donnie is just saying random things with no relevance to the topic. I feel a bit dumber already. I'll let you guys listen to that shit and recap it here. Your sacrifice is appreciated.

will you shut up man???

 ;D   :P

LOL Trump is going at it like cryptohunter, strategy seems to be to just talk over Biden...

Wallace should really separate them a bit and let them speak one at a time.

I'll continue watching, but this is really a shit show.

I feel HORRIBLE for Wallace right now. Guy can't keep this entire thing together and I totally get it. Trump will continue to interrupt and Biden doesn't have a good way to shut it down. Wallace is really losing control of this debate, and this isn't working.

This is a total shitshow, not sure what to do here. SIGH.

Although the dumbness MAY be contagious, there is a method to achieve herd immunity even in the midst of the three baboon shoutshow.

Only watch such political porn drunk.

.... Will have to keep that in mind for the future. That was absolutetly horrible.

Had a few friends say that they were going to start playing a drinking game where they would drink every time they felt bad for Chris Wallace. I'd have to say that if they actually went through with it then they'd probably be fucking dead in a ditch somewhere right now. That was horribly painful to watch.

Hopefully we see a change in the debate rules and some mics get cut in the future. That was a fucking SHIT SHOW.

Okay, so nobody won this debate.

Trump came out swinging, as expected. He went way too overboard with the interruptions. It was clear he was trying to catch Biden off guard, and I think he did get him stumbling, but did so by sounding unhinged.

Biden, clearly stuttering and slurring his speech right off the bat and continued it throughout.

For COVID-19, Trump did a poor job at responding to the discrepancies between him and his CDC director but he is absolutely right that his shutting down of travel from China/Europe saved lives. Biden was strictly against this travel ban. Biden laughed when Trump mentioned that he provided governors what they needed, but Trump is right, he did provide them with the resources.

Biden also mentioned that he wanted schools open and tried to pin school closings on Trump which is plain false. Democrats across the entire country knowingly tried to shut down schools despite doctors stating that COVID-19 was not an extreme threat to children. Trump has tweeted about schools opening all the way back in July.

Trump was asked to condemn white supremacy, alt right, proud boys and pauses...Jesus Christ. At the end though, Chris Wallace asked Trump to ask them to not get involved and "stand down", and Trump said they should stand down. Way too late on his delivery. You fucking cannot tip toe around the line when it comes to this shit.

On the other hand, Biden refused to condemn antifa, which even Chris Wallace mentioned Portland which has faced months of straight rioting. He has refused to condemn BLM radicals. He did not put forth a plan to stop the violence in these cities, he did not mention bringing the national guard. Trump could have done a better job in pinning Joe Biden's position on him, but he kept interrupting. The violence in these cities are not ring wing and it's utterly disingenuous to pin it on the alt right or "agitators". They are out screaming "Black Lives Matters", starting fires, assaulting police, so on.

On climate change, I think Biden was more convincing but for the wrong reasons. He advocated for the Paris Climate Accord which does virtually nothing on stopping the total increase of global temperatures even if China and India meet their guidelines (which would never happen). The Paris Accord is a way for China to gain economic advantage of the U.S., and the US and China will most likely go to war within the next 50 years. The "Green New Deal" is also not economically feasible, Trump is right on this. But, again, most Americans think "going green" is a great idea without considering economic drawbacks, therefore Biden won this part.


On a peaceful transition of power - Trump did really bad. Trump supporters should not be at the polls "observing" and watching. Joe Biden plainly stated that yes, he will wait until an independent body verifies who the winner is, which was the "right" answer.

Trump was down and needed a debate win here to pull ahead. A "tied" debate (although I think many people will say Biden was the winner), technically means a Trump loss.

Might add some more things later but these are the things that stuck out to me.

Chris Wallace was decent, given the circumstances. BTW, all this is strictly my worthless opinion.

Yes, they should. Historically, that's been common and accepted practice.

burp...

Not a boring debate, though very messy. Trump was interrupting so much that a lot of people might've just lost interest and turned off the channel. If you did watch, then Trump was clearly dominating; Biden looked very weak. Biden supporters will be even more irritated at Trump than usual for rudely steamrolling over Biden, though I don't think that their enthusiasm (=likeliness to vote) will be increased. Trump's supporters will be pretty excited. The most important factor was whether anyone was convinced that Biden is not the safe pick, and I think that there may have been a bit of this due to how incoherent/distractable/weak he was, but there was so much interruption from Trump that this effect may have been reduced. In many cases Trump's first inturruption clearly threw off Biden's train of thought and probably would've caused him to falter for the next 60 seconds if left alone, but Trump kept interrupting him, which ruins the effect. Trump would've been better-served by cutting his interruptions by 75% IMO (though definitely not eliminating them).

I think that it was a good night for Trump overall. Better than I expected, though far from perfect for him, and probably not enough to really shake up the race.

There were a lot of controversial things Trump said, but most of it will slide off of Teflon Don like usual. The only huge flub I saw from him was his refusal to denounce white nationalists. He handed that exchange very poorly for no apparent reason, and if the media makes a big deal out of this, I could see this actually hurting him a bit.

Random notes I made while watching:
 - Reasonable realpolitik answer from Trump on the court nomination. Best to drop any pretense of consistency, since everyone knows that's BS.
 - Trump was effective at prodding Biden about packing the court
 - Biden's prepared "look at your empty chair [from people who died from coronavirus]" response came off to me as an incredibly distasteful obvious political heart-strings-pull. Not sure how it will be viewed generally.
 - Interesting for Trump to note his CDC's lying on masks
 - Even Wallace laughed at Trump's joke about nobody showing up to Biden events
 - Trump was strong on the tax story. Directly denied it, changed the subject, distracted Biden when he was talking about it. It's really effective to blame Biden for creating the tax loopholes that Trump exploited.
 - It was very bad moderating for Wallace to ask a question about Critical Race Theory in a debate. Most viewers will have never heard of this, and will think that it's just some generic anti-racism sensitivity training, but this specific program has many critics on both the right and left. You could debate its merits, but you can't expect someone to even properly explain the issue in 2 minutes. (Trump should've dodged it more directly rather than actually trying to half-explain it.)
 - Biden had some good prepared remarks on suburbs and community policing, and Trump's prodding on this doesn't seem effective to me
 - One moment Trump is accusing Biden of writing a too-harsh, racist crime bill, the next he's saying that he's weak on law & order...
 - Trump's "name one police group supporting you", and Biden's failure to do so, was super effective.
 - Biden should've been able to fire back more strongly at Trump's refusal to commit to accepting the election outcome.

Overall I would say that Chris Wallace did a bad job at moderating. This is surprising considering that IMO he was the best moderator in the last set of debates in 2016. Wallace really lost control of the conversation multiple times throughout the debate.

Wallace asked for Trump to denounce White Supremists, however he was unable to name a specific group he wanted Trump to denounce, and he did not ask Biden to do the same thing for BLM nor ANIFTA, and the left leaning groups are responsible for 99%+ of the violence and rioting. Trump did not specifically denounce White Suprremists, but he did ask for a specific name to condem, which he received no response.

Trump should not have interrupted Biden as much. I believe Biden would have embarrised himself more, and would have shown his declining mental abilities if not for Trump's interruptions. There were other times in which Trump should have interrupted when he didn't such as about the often repeated lie that Trump said White Suppremists were "very fine people" in Charlottsville.

Biden's non-answer on court-packing basically means he is for court-packing. If he comes out as being against court-packing, it shuts down any concerns about the SC being packed, while if he says he is pro-packing, this becomes a major headline (it is very unpopular). Biden's explanation is that he wont answer the question because it would distract from the SC conversation, and being pro-packing is the only position that would distract from the conversation.

Heres one :

Howell ,NJ police pick Biden.

A town of 60,000 with 100 or so cops.

Trump should give up trying to convince anyone that Biden and Harris will be soft on crime. They are known to be hardasses much the same as he is.

Trump’s best move is to say Biden is too afraid of covid and will shut down the country again much like Boris Johnson Did.

As I lay on my bed watching my wife still suffer from her bout with covid-19 last Jan .

Trump cant win me over cause it is pretty obivous he is willing to kill off people to make money.

This is false. The coronavirus is something that cannot be stopped. No matter what happens, people will get the virus and no matter what, it will still spread. This is regardless of whatever lockdowns are put into place. Broad economic shutdowns are a novel concept way of handling coronaviruses, that can be traced back to China.

It is unfortunate that Wallace did not bring this up, however Biden and Obama did a very bad job at handling H1N1 in 2009. If H1N1 was as deadly as the Wuhan coronavirus is, millions of Americans would have died, hospitals would have been overrun, and it would have been an overall disaster. Biden was lucky it was not much more deadly than the flu, and tens of millions of Americans were infected.

You are one of the reasons trump is willing to kill off people.


On the other hand Since I have been directly affected by covid-19

We simply will never agree.

Btw I had H1N1 and for me it was worse then covid-19 which I had with my wife. Jan of 2020.

Trump canceled Biden Obama pandemic programs to save a few bucks. So defending Trump over covid-19 is your choice not mine.

Did he do a bad job? Yes.

But can we really blame him? Guy really didn't have a lot to work with. Both Trump and Biden were really losing it on one another with the constant talking over one another -- I do have to say that Trump totally talked way too much and made himself look very dumb there.

Totally true on the whole - let Biden talk and we can probably end up somewhere where he stumbled by himself. But Trump just made himself look like a buffoon without letting Biden talk. Biden stumbled in the beginning and Trump should've let him continue to stumble.

Less on the Hunter Biden stuff, more on the socialist side of the party. More on law and order. More on Biden being in politics for 47 years and getting nothing done. Biden is part of the establishment and so on and so forth.

October surprise is going to really be needed to help propel Trump. This isn't looking good for the GOP right now.

I only watched the main parts from the debate but this was really rough. It kind of reminds me of 4 years ago when Trump had the first debate with Hillary. Trump trying to bully his opponent around and they try to keep their cool. In my opinion it will have no really impact on the polls. The people who will vote for Trump know what they are getting and are not going to change their opinion because of the debate. As for Biden it's early to see people abandon him. I think it will take another debate for people to start switching their opinions.

appropriate as the debate looked like an argument between two drunks at a bar with wallace the bartender occasionally threatening to cut one off and throw them out, with little effect.

pretty embarrassing for citizens of the usa.. theres a rock out in the yard im looking at. think im gonna vote for it nov 3rd.

Hope this wasn’t too much of a spoiler because I’m about to watch it if I can find it..

A better format would have been to have a computer controlled countdown for each person's talk. Give them a big OLED screen they can watch that has a green bar moving toward completion of the 2 minutes, it could go amber, then red, then blinking red, and then shuts off audio.

At that point the contender could punch a button that gives him another 10, 20 or 30 seconds. But we'd only give him say 600 seconds total on that clock.

That'd shut them up, and let Wallace manage content, not shutdowns.

Hell, I'd even given them a 2nd button which allowed them to interrupt someone else talking, but limit it to 10 10 second interrupts.

Or just have no moderator and let them go head to head for as long as they can handle it..

What a game. Just let Trump in so he can finish out his two terms. I mean, if you don't let him back in, the Dems will mess up the next four years so badly, that Trump will easily make it back in, in 2024.


'Shut Up, Man!' Dissecting The Trump-Biden Circus (http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/291619-2020-09-30-shut-up-man-dissecting-the-trump-biden-circus.htm)




'Shut Up, Man!' Dissecting The Trump-Biden Circus
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/RBmaHROxUhk/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEjCPYBEIoBSFryq4qpAxUIARUAAAAAGAElAADIQj0AgKJDeAE=&rs=AOn4CLBYMiVR-9jkIX7grwLunGnc5nxuoA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBmaHROxUhk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBmaHROxUhk)


8)

Little update on the whole Presidential Debate stuff and what we're going to see for the future, Axios states the following from the Debate commission:


Totally needed for the next debate as there is ABSOLUTELY no way that we're going to be able to watch 2 more of whatever the fuck last night was. I know it may be great for ratings and the cable companies love it because people like to see this sort of bullshit drama entertainment. But it really isn't showing us anything and it isn't showcasing the candidates like it needs to do.

Hopefully these debates get better. Total win for Biden though as a messy debate helps him. Trump needed a great debate and he didn't get it.

I agree with the need for a change in the way the debates are done. But, I think last night showed us exactly the kind of people the debaters are... for debates, that is.

When you look at all the things that Biden did to improve his finances when he was in the vice-p, and all the things that Trump has done for the people, the only reasons Biden might win are two:
1. Corruptions in the voting world;
2. Ignorant people who don't understand how Trump has blessed them.

8)

Likely be pretty interesting.

So there's an interesting situation. Trump campaign is obviously claiming great victory and probably wouldn't agree to rule changes. They're claiming it would help Biden, although really it would be more likely to allow Biden to go off rails if he has to talk for 2 minutes uninterrupted. Perhaps the campaign isn't sure they can reign Trump in. It wouldn't be good TV if Trump was muted mid-ramble and/or continued to talk while muted.

And the next debate is a "town hall", whatever that means these days (Zoom?). Having Trump agitated again and trying to interrupt people asking questions would be some next level shitshow.

The second presidential debate is likely to be the exact opposite of the first. It's moderated by Steve Scully, "the most patient man on television" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wrji0XLoFU). Most people are probably imagining that Scully will be even weaker than Wallace, but as someone who's watched hundreds of hours of C-SPAN's Washington Journal over the years, let me assure you that he won't be, by far. Scully has decades of experience in moderating, he's the most active of the C-SPAN hosts at pushing back at callers, and he's the most willing to insert his own bias. His bias is that of someone who's lived in the DC bubble for so long that it's all he can conceive. He's someone who actually thinks that MSNBC journalists are unbiased, that the national security state is staffed entirely with honest actors, that the system made sense and was basically working pre-Trump, etc. While I'm sure that Scully will honestly try to be fair, he is fundamentally biased against everything that Trump stands for, and he will feel duty-bound to moderate him very harshly.

I predict that the second debate will end up breaking into two disjointed pieces: the first will be a raucous debate between Trump and Steve Scully, and the second will be a peaceful, boring townhall between Biden and some citizens, with Trump muted.

I predict there won't be a second debate.

The Debate commission has already signaled some sort of format change so that the next one will be more civil.  I imagine this will involve muting a candidate if it's not their turn to speak or if they won't stfu -  Trump won't be a fan and refuse to participate.

He doesn't have a choice but to participate. Trump checking out of the debate means Biden wins by default. With how much he's down, this isn't a smart campaign strategy.

Sure he does.  He already laid the ground work last winter when he said he wouldn't participate if he thought it was unfair and complained about the board of the debate commission being never Trumpers.  Plus he's been spreading conspiracy theories about Biden cheating for weeks.  In the end he can make up whatever reason he wants and plenty of voters will either believe him or not care.

Trump is down in the polls, and debating is one way that a candidate can climb out of a polling deficit. Trump is not going to not participate in the next debate.

I would note that it was Biden who was telling the President of the United States to “shut up” and calling him a clown. It was also Biden who called Trump “stupid” even though Biden finished last in his class in school, and has a history of plagiarism. 

What a joke this debate was if we can call it debate at all!
I don't remember the name of moderator but he did awful job here in controlling both candidates.
Trump doing his usual thing, and Biden trying to act normal and calm.
Both of them are old fossiles not fit for the job, and my conclusion is, if Biden wins he will close America again, and that will hurt everyone in the world.
Let's wait for next debate, but odds are in Bidens favor now.

Some voters might believe it, but Trump and his campaign staff know it's over if he skips out, he has too much to lose.


This doesn't make sense though?

If he's down, why wouldn't he want to participate in the debates?

Are you arguing with a double negative?

Although it doesn't make much sense either way. Trump didn't really help himself in the first debate.

He didn't help himself in the first debate, but in 2016 his first debate performance was shitty too. He picked it up the other debates despite the releasing of the pussy tapes and sexual assault allegations. Plus there were a lot factually untrue things Joe Biden said in the debate that Trump never bothered refuting. No reason at all for him to check out of the remaining debates.

Maybe... if he's hit rock bottom and the only way is up. I'd be shitting my pants now if I was responsible for Trump's strategy for the next debate, particularly considering the town hall format. Given Trump's attacks on Wallace, what if he unloads on one of the "town" people asking questions? He's a loose cannon. The only thing he can hope for is that Biden will bomb worse than him... which is not likely given that Biden despite being gaffe-prone usually knows when to step back whereas Trump usually doubles and triples down on his blunders.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1311892190680014849

Well, I guess we won't be getting our debates after all. Crazy how that works.

You'd have to have a crystal ball to know that.

Who knows, he could get covid or something.

Not nice.

It takes about two weeks to get over a mild case of coronavirus, and up to 6 weeks for a severe case. Trump likely did not get the virus today, so that 2 week window has already started. The next presidential debate is in 13 days.

I would also note that Biden was in the same room as Trump for 90 minutes just two days ago, so it is very possible that he also has it, or that he got it at the debate.

Not good. I would be willing to bet that Trump will debate Biden. If he only has a mild case, he will likely debate in separate rooms. If he has a more severe case, he will likely drop out of the race.

That's bad. Hope Hicks tested positive earlier today and she was with Trump everywhere the last few days. A lot of other people are likely infected too.

I wish everyone quick recovery. It would be nice if this wasn't politicized but it most definitely will be.

Trump's tested so often, probably numerous times a day I bet. He had to have been recently infected by the virus meaning a solid two week quarantine period, maybe a bit less. If he were to drop out due to COVID-19 holy fuck that'd be some irony there.

I'm not saying that he will or wont, because I don't know.  That's my point.  There's time for Trump to turn the positive test into political gain by Nov 4th, it's also possible he dies the night before. 

There is no reason for him to drop out, not yet anyway. If this was a civilized country both Biden and Trump should suspend their campaigns for the duration of the quarantine but that's not going to happen.

Gonna be Christmas day for BADecker and crew if Trump ends up being asymptomatic and looking healthy on the other side of this quarantine. 

Getting COVID-19 to own the libs.

It has to be said that if the debates are going to be remote due to Trump's Covid... it is a lot easier for the presenter to press the mute button on a screen than on the man himself. It's not just a flippant comment - this seems like it is a small thing, but it can profoundly influence the dynamic. I know they were floating the idea of muting before the Covid announcement, but if he's muted and still physically on the stage, he can still have an impact, whereas penned in by the walls of a screen, there's not much he can do.

Maybe they can do it via Twitter.

Only if both candidates agree. Trump would have to submit his vote by postal ballot.

Funny thing about twitter remains whether senile ones could construct their own tweets.

Both of those fucks cheat in that regard, so there may need to be rules to govern the verification of their typing.... maybe we need a blockchain for that?  BSV.. they have plenty of extra space for nonsense.. and surely can be trusted.

Didn't someone mention earlier that those POTUS candidate diptwats were tweeting during the actual debates... Yeah, right?  That would be some other dork sending such like-minded dork tweet nonsense.  A form of desperation to not even be able to wait until the damned debate is over to at least allow for an actual appearance that the actual dweeb is typing the actual dumb thought dweeb tweets.

   covid-19 has give  trump a. Exit strategy.  He now has the option to resign with health as the reason. For the good of the country I am not well enough so I appoint my daughter as the vp.  Pence Trump  still the ticket.

And pence pardons trump for any and all crimes committed in office.

Just o e of many moves trump now has due to covid-19

Possibly.


Federal crimes and state crimes.  Presidents have pardon power over federal crimes, and surely there would be some turmoil over any of these kinds of potential corruption matters... Yet when there are so many messes that are made, sometimes, even politicians of the opposing party, prefer to merely bring closure to some of the matters rather than revealing how extensively the people have been fleeced by a variety of greed/power based shenanigans.

Honestly it's not a bad idea as a hail mary strategy. Trump already had only a small chance of pulling this off, he didn't do well enough in the debate, and now he won't be able to campaign effectively. We've all gotten trained from our experience with 2016 to think that Trump is somehow going to pull this off, but it's looking almost impossible now, so something utterly crazy like that might be in order. A lot of people are holding their noses to vote for Biden just because they despise Trump. Biden is such a terrible candidate that even a boring Republican like Romney or Pence would in ordinary times wipe the floor with him. If they switch to Ivanka, some of Trump's die-hard base will stick with her, and some people who are only reluctantly voting for Biden would switch or at least not vote.

Even though some folks want to consider the US system like it were able to employ willy-nilly nepotism, I question the extent to which candidates can be changed either at the last moment or even changed at all after voting has already started.

Furthermore, there are state by state differentiations in terms of merely getting on the ballot or whether candidates can be written in, etc etc..

So, just seems like a legal quagmire to play various kinds of games of attempting to hand-off power, even in extreme circumstances, and even though these day, it remains difficult to rule out anything when it comes to what certain parties might attempt to pull off.

It's like desperate times call for desperate measures - and gosh, if some weird-ass shit has been allowed to happen earlier in this administration in terms of nepotism like practices, why not continue with additional weird-ass measures that are not necessarily based within actual legal requirements?

Yeah I think filing deadlines for a good amount of states have passed at this point. Not fully sure if someone could replace Trump (or Biden) on the ticket at this point. That's not even thinking about the fact that TONS of people have already voted by mail, and those votes can not be changed even if the candidate has died or has become incapacitated in some way up to this point.

I suppose Congress could delay the election, but we're too deadlocked to even let that happen. You'd need both sides of congress to agree on that, and the GOP controls the Senate while the DNC controls the House.

In summary: If one of them dies, the other will most likely win and that'll be the end of the election.

Well said, the debate is changing no ones mind on choice in election. The latest Trump illness will play sympathy from few more but the other party is trying not to play politics with it. News and TV media have been restless with the illness and I dont think play any disaster in the poll if the health condition of the president deteriorate.

pretty sure that the rules are that if trump is incapacitated or croaks before the election is settled any existing vote for him goes to whoever republican candidate is then picked by the republican party. so pense i assume, and a new vp is chosen by the republican party. so previously cast votes get counted for the same party no matter who drops out. its up to the party itself to pick a replacement.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Electoral_College

IMO if either Trump or Biden drops out of the race, their party will likely try to prevent the other side from being able get 270 electorial college votes so that Congress will get to decide who becomes President for the next term.

If Congress decides the next election, each state will get to cast one vote, based on their delegation at the next congress.  Currently Republicans have at least 26 votes, and it is unclear how many Democrats would have.

I would expect Democrats to try to hold up state elections in court through when the electrical college must meet according to the constitution. They will also likely try to hold up congressional elections in states of which would vote Republican based on their delegation.

If Congress cannot decide who will become the next President, it will be as if both the President and Vice President died, and whoever is in line after the VP to become President will become President. According to statute, this would be Speak of the House, Nancy Pelosi, then Senator Chuck Grassley, then Secretary of State Mike Pompeo (it doesn't matter after this point). The Constitution says that no person can be both President and a member of the legleslative branch (a congressmen or Senator) at the same time, so in order for Pelosi or Grassley to be eligible to be president, they would need to resign from Congress/Senate, however if they resign from the legleslature, they would no longer hold the position that makes them to be in line to be President per statute. This means Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has a decent chance of being President early next year.

Well this more of the case regarding if they died after the election but before the electoral college went and voted.

I'm talking about if one of the candidates were to die in the next few days or a week or so -- a lot of people have already voted by mail, and those votes would already be allocated. Not sure how state rules relate to wanting to change your vote once it's been sent in to the board of elections.



The tough part is ya know -- not letting the other person get to 270 if one person is dead. Hard to get to that point, lol.

Post debate poll - https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/7221894-200781-NBCWSJ-October-Post-Debate-Poll-1b.html

800 Registered voters, Biden 53, Trump 39; (+14 Biden).

This is before Trump's COVID-19 diagnosis too, Trump is getting clobbered... Looking back on the debate, I don't even think on policy Trump lost at all. If he wasn't a dumb ass and stopped interrupting, I think he could have won. Biden doesn't need much help to slur his words so it was such a bizarre and useless strategy to keep interrupting that bit him in the ass. Trump went so aggressive, which Biden pretty much took the bait on and also went a bit unhinged, which made nobody change their mind that night, causing Trump to suffer a net loss. MAYBE, the silver lining is that the poll is registered voters and not likely voters but I'm not optimistic. If he loses, oh well. 3 SCOTUS picks would be great if Amy Barrett can get confirmed.

Trump - being a genius that he is - managed to complicate that as well by infecting 3 GOP senators... and no, I'm not saying he personally licked them and gave them the virus but the idiotic lack of social distancing, masks, etc at White House events and other Trump-related gatherings seems to be where it spread. Now some other dumbass (Tom Cotton?) is saying that they should just bring the sick senators to vote if needed. So what if some fossils catch it and die... you get your judge, that's all that matters.

here come the murdered baby comments!

Well looks like Trump team Is hoping to get Trump out of the hospital and debate Biden.

UNLESS Biden is afraid of doing it. I HEARD four Republicans say Trump is getting well and wants to show you can push through the illness.

If he personally tries to risk his life on this, then I respect his determination, but I hope that he doesn't try to send a general message of "coronavirus is harmless, look at me!". I hate that he's allowed "not wearing a mask" to become some sort of political statement. I'm opposed to mandatory closures and mask mandates, but not wearing a mask just for the sake of tribalism is completely braindead, and a leader encouraging this is just hurting his own faction. It's like Trump mailing all registered Republicans coupons for sky diving, hard liquor, and cigarettes, and telling them that real patriots aren't pussies.

Or just the republican Senators the day before the SCOTUS confirmation vote.

Now's a great chance for Trump to demonstrate that he is capable of humility. Now that the virus has personally affected him, maybe his outlook on it will change and he will be a bit more sensitive toward the problem. I notice he's already stopped calling it the "China virus" which is a good first step forward.

I knew all along that MAGA was positively infectious.

(a joke)

Covid doesn't seem that dangerous, according to WHO.

https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1312180625412038656

Trump campaign communications director on Fox:

"The President has experience, now, fighting the coronavirus as an individual. Those firsthand experiences, Joe Biden, he doesn’t have those."

---

Sorry to disappoint.
https://i.gyazo.com/62f85dc1306b5fb39c01498a7a366b14.png

Do these experiences also cause Trump to be able to empathize with any other human besides his lil selfie?

I would suspect that one of the qualifications of any person holding a public office or seeking to hold a public office should be to attempt to represent the interests and needs of people, and seems a bit difficult if the only people that such purported representative is capable of representing is his lil selfie. 

Sure, indirectly, Trump may well end up representing some American peeps that happen to be similarly situated to himself, but seems to me that the needs and aspirations of America is much more diverse than the profile of one person, even if such person happens to be a perfect person, such as we all recognize the red-headed self-absorbed dweeb to be.

I saw a sign today that said:



Trump and Biden Squabble While America Burns (http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/291919-2020-10-05-trump-and-biden-squabble-while-america-burns.htm)




8)

Damn it... That isn't even good politics by any stretch of the imagination. It maybe appeals to some of his base, but it turns off a lot of people.

I agree that people shouldn't "live in fear"; a lot of the lockdown actions have gone way too far. But it's like driving (which is also quite dangerous!): you shouldn't live in fear or let the risk control your life, but you should also wear a seatbelt and drive carefully.

It's looking like Trump is going to get destroyed in this election, in large part because he just can't get beyond his own irrationality, narcissism, and tribalism. It's frustrating to watch, since Biden is a terrible candidate who represents an awful ideology. I think we're all kind of expecting due to 2016 that things will at least shift somewhat in Trump's favor, but with current polling Biden is on track to win in a historic landslide. And it's even possible that polls will be wrong in Biden's favor this time around, especially since pollsters might well have over-compensated after 2016: margins of error go both ways.

Biden has already said that he's ready to debate if experts advise of a safe way to do it. Trump in a hazmat suit could be good for TV ratings, the only thing he genuinely cares about.

One lockdown policy for the wilds of Montana, the New Mexico desert, and the crowded, dirty slums of New York?

I think Trump has it pretty much right in leaving such policy decisions to the states.

I didn't know which senators tested positive, but ofc health and safety come first. If they're asymptomatic, a virtual confirmation hearing would be fine as long as they feel physically okay. Under no circumstances should someone test positive for COVID and then show up to vote.

Sure they can. They don't have to show up in the crowded room, they can go into the Senate room empty at night and in a spacesuit and post their vote.

I think this in-person debate nonsense needs to end. They can yell at each other over Zoom, like us peasants have been doing for the last 7 months.


https://clecityhall.com/2020/10/02/city-of-cleveland-statement-regarding-post-debate-covid-19-cases-update-194/

Yeah, the VP Debate is tomorrow night, the Biden campaign already petitioned to have the podiums moved further apart but at this point in the campaign it still seems like such an unnecessary risk for Kamala to be in the same room as any member of team "don't worry about it!"

Predictions for VP debate tonight?

I looked at some clips of the dem debates and Kamala Harris is not a good debater. Watching her TV interviews, all she does is laugh when she's pressed on a question that's tough or uncomfortable, and she hasn't done many interviews (I don't think she's done a single press conference either). Tulsi Gabbard wiped the floor with her back during the primaries too. Mike Pence has a reserved approach with smooth delivery and he's pretty good at deflecting criticisms of Trump and spinning them. On policy, Trump wins and I expect Pence to keep things about policy.

Some topics I hope to see Pence mention - Packing the court, Biden's flipping on the Green New Deal, challenging Biden's campaign general philosophy that America is inherently evil and systemically racist. I don't think Harris will have any responses to these topics other than emotional hyperbole. Most Americans don't actually want to see the courts packed, nor do they think America is systemically racist.

Some clear lines of attack from Harris - Trump's obvious COVID-19 diagnosis and his general light handed approach on safety. For me, it's gonna be hard for Pence to spin this one. Trump clearly did not do things on a personal level to stay safe. An obvious deflection would be Biden's reluctance to implement a travel ban but we'll see how it plays out.

If Pence utterly fails in this debate, I think it's safe to say the election is officially over and Trump can begin packing his bags. If Pence "ties" this debate, Trump can pack his bags.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2020/09/10/voters-attitudes-about-race-and-gender-are-even-more-divided-than-in-2016/

tl;dr: 76% of voters think it's more difficult to be black than white, and 59% think that white people benefit from societal advantages unavailable to black people.

It might be quite perilous for Pence to try that line.

Hey look, a real debate.

 Boooring.

 Wait!  A little excitement.... aw they got shut down.

Anyone else notice that fly on Pences head?  It's been there for like 5 minutes now.

Totally boring, but this is what debates typically look like.

I don't think we expected, after the last one, for both VP candidates to go through the same screaming match as before. No one liked that and it wouldn't make sense for that to happen, lol. But yeah, I did also notice the fly on Pences head, happens I guess.

Pence is doing well IMO. He always does well in debates though. Guy is a great softspoken Midwesterner. Did we expect anything else?

Well, at least it was watchable. Some missed opportunities for Harris. Why didn't she bring up Trump's nonsense about the cure for COVID-19 is beyond me.


It's clearly feeding answers to him straight from Trump.

Mike Pence wiped the floor and it was not even close. Kamala Harris is not a good debater period. There were so many opportunities on Harris to call Mike Pence out on healthcare which she completely blew (my view, Trump's biggest failure of his administration is healthcare).

Moderator, great job tonight. Better than Wallace's performance by a mile, but obviously she dealt with civil non-senile candidates.

From the first question you know it was gonna be a rough night for Kamala Harris. Moderator asked Harris what she would have done different in January and February and Harris did not answer the question at all. She would not have implemented a single policy proposal in January or February because the reality is, public policy can only be formed in response to a problem, not preceding one. COVID-19 was not something anyone predicted. She did not have a good response towards Biden calling the travel ban xenophobic either.

Now, Trump is obviously responsible for his verbiage about COVID. He sends mixed messages, but on policy he did okay. Harris could have launched an attack on this basis, she could have mentioned Trump's refusal to wear a mask too (btw, which I think she'd be completely right on), but she missed the mark.

Health care was an important topic and Harris didn't do a good job on outlining Trump's failures. She kept reverting back to pre-existing conditions which pretty much everyone believes will be covered. Obamacare is not the end all be all for preexisting conditions. Trump failed to repeal Obamacare, and he failed to pass a new healthcare plan. Again, Harris had a clear line of attack here that would be fair criticism and she didn't bother.

FlyGate: Mike Pence seemingly had a fly land on him, perhaps a fruit fly bred by Hillary Clinton and released by one of her staffers.

Packing the court is one of the more clinically insane things democrats believe in which is mentally retarded. I would love for someone to explain to me the rationale for packing the court, because even RBG denounced the idea. Even if you plan to pack the court, just fucking lie about it. You're literally going to destroy separation of powers by trying to legislate from the bench as a result of packing the court.

Foreign policy - Kamala Harris tried to dumb it down for Americans which I don't think they'll buy. She kept referencing other countries as "friends" like we're in grade school. To be fair, she does have a point that allies view America lesser than they did with Obama. Trump is responsible for that. It's also true that Trump has stood up to China who is responsible for the virus, responsible for covering it up, responsible for IP theft, responsible for concentration camps, and responsible for enabling NK. Undoubtedly, Trump was more tough on China.

Kamala Harris had a valid point on Russian bounties though. I felt Pence needed to respond to this but I'm not sure how he could have refuted the NYT reports. Guess it was best to take the hit but Pence did talk about Baghdadi and Soleimani, two dirt bags that should be dead.

Pinning Kayla Mueller's death on Obama was a bit unfair by Pence, but if you're being honest, Obama's foreign policy was a complete mess and the Iran Nuclear deal was worthless.

On law enforcement, I'm not even going to bother. Taylor was cleared by a jury of regular citizens and as a prosecutor, she should know that justice was served. The case was heard, but she doesn't want to upset the far left so I don't knock her for what she said on Taylor. Fact remains obviously, and Pence echoed this, Taylor was a victim, she died tragically. BTW, banning choke holds would not have saved George Floyd. Neck restraint is allowed, and there isn't evidence Floyd died from strangulation/choking. Harris, factually, said more things that were false in this segment than any other. Harris repeated so many lies on this topic it was hard to keep up. Purely emotional arguments, she said nothing substantial here.

Lastly - I'm curious to see what leftists (leftist, not liberals, so don't yell at me) think on Joe Biden taking you for a ride. Truly. Kamala Harris is so stupid, she thought she could pander to the far left during the primaries, then turn her back on them during the debates. And when Pence called her on her far left beliefs, all she did was smile and laugh. I said in my pre-debate post she would laugh and smile when pressed, and no surprise to anyone, she does. It comes across as arrogant, condescending, and inauthentic. Her taking massive pauses and smiling when Pence briefly interjected were unbelievable forced and she looked like a dumb ass doing it. God help us all when she's running in 2024. Oh, and "I'm speaking" is trending on twitter with 150k tweets, so you know Harris got demolished when the far left is trending something so meaningless as if she "clapped back" at Pence when in reality she smiled like a broken robot as Pence was dismantling her.

 I didn't actually notice it but for much of the time I was listening only.  I saw it the post-debate images though.  Funny!

As everyone expected, it was a boring and near-meaningless debate between Politician Man and Politician Woman. Each side will view their candidate as winning, and will be slightly enthused if they watched the debate. Undecideds who lean toward Republican ideology will be pushed a bit in that direction, while undecideds who lean toward Democratic ideology will be pushed a bit in that direction. The next big headline will completely wipe out any real effects, probably within days.

Everyone was so shell-shocked from last week that any interruptions or time extensions are liable to be viewed as horrific, though what went on here was totally in-line with what would normally be considered a civil debate. Some interruptions are normal in a debate. Because people would obviously be especially sensitive this time, though, I'm surprised that Pence was as aggressive on bending the rules as he was, and some people will judge him harshly for it. Both candidates did clearly hobble themselves by being more strict about following the rules than is normal or comfortable.

Since the whole thing is electorally meaningless, it's a bit pointless to declare a winner, but I'll do so anyway. Kamala did OK, and I think that her points were on the whole slightly more appealing to average viewers, but Pence had much better delivery and ability to adapt/rebut. I think that if you took an undecided person, had them watch the whole debate, and then polled them before they watched any other news coverage, Pence would win by a comfortable margin.

Random notes based on my notes while watching:
 - Kamala's delivery is overall not terrible. She sounds like she knows what she's talking about. She looks less calm than Pence, though, with some stilted delivery of rehearsed lines and a poor ability to adapt.
 - Plenty of spin and dodging from Pence, but I see less obvious lying than Kamala
 - Pence runs too long too often
 - Kamala's virus points are probably more convincing to the average person
 - Effective point from Pence on Biden's handling of swine flu
 - Both dodged on questions of presidential succession. Pence's use of the "free time" seemed more effective.
 - Kamala got a lot of mileage out of Woodward's stuff, and it all comes across pretty effectively
 - Kamala makes several economic points that will be attractive to people (creating jobs, taxing the wealthy, protecting healthcare, infrastructure, etc.), though Pence's rebuttal was pretty effective
 - Pence was pretty successful at treating Kamala with kid gloves, to the point where she comes off as rude/aggressive in several exchanges.
 - Kamala's reference to a Pew poll showing that other countries trust Xi more than Trump is a novel and effective argument.
 - Kamala's arguments around Trump's interactions with Russia & Iran are too esoteric to be effective.
 - It's a good line of attack for Biden/Harris to connect the supreme court to the ACA, and Kamala made this argument effectively. Pence should've used his time to somehow rebut this strong argument, but instead he wasted his breath on the esoteric court packing point. He was successful in pressuring Biden/Harris further on court packing, but most people don't understand or care about this.
 - Pence ideologically has to defer to the grand jury in the Breonna Taylor case, but it looks really bad because it's such an esoteric argument. It's like defending O.J. Simpson: people "know" that Breonna Taylor was not treated fairly, and no amount of legal mumbo-jumbo is going to change their minds. He should've avoided mentioning her particular case at all. (BTW, pretty rich for "Copmala" to complain about grand juries.)
 - Good points from Pence on Kamala's terrible DA record. Trump/Pence should talk more about this.
 - He couldn't do the argument justice in 5 seconds, but it's good for Pence to dismiss Bush's cabinet members the "establishment". Trump/Pence should talk more about this, and openly recognize that the Democratic party wants to bring together the bipartisan group who are responsible for 30+ years of failure and put them back in power.


The fly was sent by the deep state to infect Pence with coronavirus and put Nacy Pelosi in charge!


There's apparently disagreement (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/nsa-differed-from-cia-others-on-russia-bounty-intelligence/ar-BB16a7hg) within the government on whether those bounties actually existed. (And random leaks from "the intelligence community" aren't trustworthy anyway...)

After Obamacare was passed, in the 2010 congressional elections, Republicans gained 63 congressional seats and 6 senate seats. I don't understand why democrats are campaigning on Obamacare. It is not a popular program and will simply not resoniate with voters. 

Democrats have frequently achieved their policy goals via the courts that are too radical for voters to approve at the polls. If ACB is confirmed, they will no longer be able to do this. They appear to want to make the United States a one party state, not coincidentally, like China. 

I have read reports that the NYT reporting on this may not be accurate. The NYT reporting is relying on alleged classified information, and refuting this reporting could possibly jeopardize sources and methods of intelligence. My understanding is the basis for this intelligence is that the US found large amounts of cash in a house during a raid, and it is unclear as to the source of this cash.   

Trump throws a tantrum because he can't spread his "blessing (https://www.today.com/video/trump-says-it-s-a-blessing-from-god-that-he-caught-covid-19-93416517702)"... no more debates I guess.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/08/politics/second-presidential-debate-virtual/index.html

Biden should just ambush him by calling in while Trump is on Fox and Friends.

While Pence was talking, Harris was continually, none stop moving between one of four or five facial expressions, I thought "cartoon-like". Pence came across as thoughtful and careful.

I really disliked that approach of Harris, although it may resonate with some.

Harris came up with a couple of significant "New Facts." (A) Harris/Biden are not going to destroy the jobs of the fracking industry. (B) Harris/Biden do not propose a rehash of the Green New Deal.

When Pence rebutted these points, she acted like he was an idiot. He replied that they were her platform, and she doubled down. Obviously these are new talking points or her idea not Bidens', or perhaps just outright fabrications.

I would have much preferred if she had carefully explained those positions, and just said they were a change of position, or hers, not Biden's, or whatever the situation may be.

Short story: Do four or five studied face expressions make someone look presidential?

Would you want her for president?

Not a fan of a virtual debate. I really don't think it does enough to ensure that the candidates aren't being coached through their answers. And no, I'm not going to be the person who points at a particular candidate as says they're the one that is being coached instead of the other. Virtual debates don't fully allow for us to know that they're being genuine though.

Wouldn't President Trump be fine within CDC guidelines to have a debate? 14 days from when he got it. I think they may have even lowered the amount of time from 14 to 10 days as well.


I thought Pence did pretty well in this debate, but I think we all already knew that Pence was a good debater.

I've never been a fan of Harris, fucking cop, so I don't think I can give her a fair look.

Harris has many flaws, but face... seriously? With the orange combover as the POTUS, that's your concern?


It's not a high school test. If they have a good team to coach them - have at it. They will need a good team to govern. There is no debate important enough to risk health or life for, and I'm not talking just about the fossils on the stage but this:

A good team coaching you is one thing, but a good team providing you real time answers to questions is another.

Obviously we all know that everyone is going to have debate prep and to be coached and such, but no one wants you to be spoon fed answers. That's my issue with it being online.

I get the health concerns though, and if the Trump campaign/admin is transparent with his test results leading up to the debate wouldn't we be fine? Also -- Could just kick the debate back for sometime. Trumps campaign manager is saying to have the debate on Oct 22nd and the 2nd one on the 29th.

Again, it's not just Trump, but anyone in his entourage who could be contagious. Or Biden's team too for that matter. Or anyone working at the venue. I don't think Trump personally infected 11 people in Cleveland.

It's unnecessary risk for no real benefit. It's one thing to waste billions of dollars on political campaigns but it's a whole new level to put people at risk for... what exactly? Prime time entertainment?

[/quote]

Run a part of the "debate" with the sound off and you'll see what I mean.

In a courtroom, when someone doesn't agree with what a person on the stand is saying, or perhaps what one attorney is saying, they will make these sorts of expressions. They do this because the court prevents them from vocalizing, that'll get them tossed out.

She goes way overboard with this tactic. In this debate, it's virtually a continuous show.

I'll give you this, cause it is totally right.

I suppose everyone who is entering the debate facility could also submit to a test, but even doing that isn't going to rule out everything -- as people could be too early in the process to test positive for a test.

Another day in paradise, lol.

Part of the problem with the White House outbreak is that they put a lot of trust into notoriously unreliable rapid tests while ignoring most of the distancing and mask guidelines. Trump's team refused to wear masks in the first debate. Trump's now sick along with 30+ people linked to the White House (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/34-people-connected-white-house-previously-infected-coronavirus/story?id=73487381). The administration has not been transparent in this whole fiasco. Given all that a virtual debate is absolutely the right decision. Not everyone has a chopper on stand by and a team of doctors with experimental drugs :)

After chickening out of the debate Trump called on Barr to be the greatest AG in history and indict Biden lol.


He wants to be a dictator so bad.

Masks and distancing are part of the problem, both for Covid, and for freedom, and for many other mental and physical diseases. Masks and distancing are part of the destruction of the economy at the same time that they increase Covid problems.

8)

I expect the law on the distancing for the second debate to be relaxed, we need another debate to deal with some inadequacies from the previous. There should have been discussion on last night debate though the contestant are more of a subject to the president. The rating IMO dont seem reliable and I dont know if the parties are sincere enough to accept ratings that not good and take the lessons from them. The debates still looks like a norm with little effect on people's choices.

Why?

Six months ago everyone agreed to a lockdown because they'd "Flatten the curve." And now the goal is what? To avoid having members of the POTUS contenders get sick? To not get Covid until the vaccine is available, then take the vaccine, thus avoiding it entirely?

Plus as noted, the rapid response tests are skewed in favor of false positives, in order to get the number of false negatives as low as possible. There's a number of 1:5 I've seen as typical, one real covid infection for five positive test results.

And there's the recent CDC analysis of Covid mortality: 0.13%. So, who is articulating the end game for this Mask Theater, and what is it?

Why what? Why put people at risk for a TV show? Beats me.


If you want to go bungee jumping without a cord I fully support your right to do so as long as you don't fall on my grandpa.

Because they choose to only listen to advice from those most qualified when it's not too inconvenient.  

The rapid testing wasn't too inconvenient.

The rest was.

I'm skeptical.

https://www.healthline.com/health/r-nought-reproduction-number

... in 1918 there was a worldwide outbreak of the swine flu that killed 50 million people. According to a review article published in BMC Medicine, the R0 value of the 1918 pandemic was estimated to be between 1.4 and 2.8.

But when the swine flu, or H1N1 virus, came back in 2009, its R0 value was between 1.4 and 1.6, report researchers in the journal Science. The existence of vaccines and antiviral drugs made the 2009 outbreak much less deadly.

COVID-19 R0
The R0 for COVID-19 is a median of 5.7, according to a study published online in Emerging Infectious Diseases.

5.7 simply put means extremely infections. You are going to get it. Period. Masks and distancing might put that off but won't stop it. But the earlier number I mentioned 0.13% mortality, means you won't have much of a higher chance of death than with the common cold.

Makes sense considering you think global cooling is the greatest threat to the planet.

The planet doesn't care, but civilization does. Other major threats to civilization are solar flares, asteroid impacts, germ and virus, and others. But the historical cycles show ice ages to be incredibly long term and severely impact habitable areas.

I don't even want to know what part of your anatomy you pulled that out of because it doesn't pass the smell test.

212000/0.0013 = half of the US population had COVID-19 and recovered?

Virtual debates don't work well but even if they end up doing a virtual debate, Trump isn't going to back out. He needs it way more than Joe Biden does.

I thought an outdoor debate would be a good alternative too. If Trump tests negative, have the debate outdoors to prevent further spread.

deaths / population

212k / 336,000k does not yield .13 percent, but 0.06%.

I'll find the reference.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

The numbers you are looking for are:

217,658/7,831,355 or 2.78%

as of Oct 8th.

mortality of an infection=deaths/# of infections

That's the confirmed case fatality rate. You can't get the mortality of a disease if you don't know how many people have it, and WHO came out and said they think that 10% of the population has gotten COVID-19, meaning over 700 million cases, not 7 million.

That's why I said "half". Your reference must be a doozy but you might want to do this in one of the 1000 threads dedicated to COVID-19 conspiracies because this is really not about debates anymore.


Apples and cucumbers. 7 million is the US case count. 700 million is 10% of world population.

Yeah that's my mistake. I meant the world wide case count that's like 30M+, not just the U.S. case count.

Point being, there are a lot more cases than are confirmed so that drives the fatality rate down from the confirmed case fatality rate.

Ok, I'll play along, even though it's really getting off the topic. 10% of US population is 33 million. AFAIK there have been antibody tests in some locations showing rates up to 20% so let's make it 50 million total or ~15% of population.

50 million times 0.13% = 65 thousand deaths. We have 3+ times as many deaths or 0.4-0.5% fatality rate and that's based on a fairly optimistic assumption above.

Now can we accept that sacrificing people for a TV debate is just not right.

Be careful about the exact terms and their meaning...

https://sci-hub.se/downloads/2020-08-13/66/10.1017@dmp.2020.298.pdf#view=FitH

Feel free to provide exact terms of your 0.13% claim, preferably in an appropriate thread.

Why are you under the impression that I believe COVID has a 0.13 fatality rate? We need a randomized antibody test to predict the true number of cases and even that may not do it because infection rates vary around the country.

My personal belief, probably .3-.5 percent overall.

I'm sorry, the 0.13% comes from Spendulus who still hasn't explained how he came up with that.

0.5% is quite optimistic but I wouldn't argue with that absent better data.

I believe that the rates of Covid being the SOLE cause of death to be infinitesimally small..

Yeah that's how viruses (or any deadly disease) work.  Nobody died SOLEY from covid.

What WHO "thinks" is irrelevant.  Mortality rate is always reported using available data. Whether it is cancer cases or influenza infections.

Of course you have people who had COVID-19, have recovered and were not counted in the number of infections.  Just like we have undetected cancers and remissions. Also, we are not including infected/untested people who died in accidents, or had strokes.

The mortality rate of an ongoing disease is a moving target and can change at any moment.  All you can do is report mortality at a specific date, with the available data.  Anything else should be cordially dismissed.

(trying to get this thread back on topic.....)
The 2nd presidential debate has been canceled by the "Commission on Presidential Debates" who has hosted Presidential debates over the last generation.

IMO moving the debate to being "virtual" was intended to help Biden who would be able to use a teleprompter, and the moderator would be able to interrupt Trump when he is saying something they don't like. It was also intended to serve as propaganda to further the narrative that covid is so dangerous that someone infected cannot be in the same room, no matter how large as others who have not been infected yet.

Traditionally, the rules of the debate, including the timing and location have been agreed to by both candidates ahead of time, including the 2nd debate prior to the debate commission unilaterally changing the venue/rules.

There is no rule that says the "Commission on Presidential Debates" needs to host the debate, or even that there needs to be a moderator. The WSJ published an article arguing that Trump and Biden should debate without a moderator, and that each candidate can choose the questions that are asked to the other, and can talk about whatever they want when they are answering the questions. This would ensure both candidates would be asked tough questions

You really believe this stuff you're typing?

The debate was virtual because Trump tested positive for covid.  The debate was cancelled because Trump didn't think he'd get a political win out of it - so he refused to participate.

The fact that Trump and his family/team have a history of simply ignoring local laws and guidelines to prevent the spread of the virus doesn't help either.

So yeah, it was to help Biden, and literally every other person that would've had to come into contact with team "don't worry about it".

Trump has been cleared by his doctor that he is no longer contagious. The CDC has recommonded (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/duration-isolation.html) that people isolate themselves for 10 days following the onset of symptoms, assuming by the end of the 10 days, they have been fever free for 24 hours without the use of fervor reducing medicine, and other symptoms have improved. Trump first had symptoms on October 1 (his test results came back later that night, or early Oct 2 in some parts of the Country). The second debate had been scheduled fro October 15, which is 4 days after Trump would be able to no longer have to isolate according to CDC guidelines.

I'd call it "rats in a sinking boat" but that would be some stupid-ass rats. Captain Trump choppered out a long time ago but not before thoroughly sabotaging it. Not sure what they're doing here still defending his nonsense.

https://wrongologist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/COW-Hole-in-the-boat.jpg

What's wrong with delaying the debate a couple days, or making the requirement of having both candidates tested by the Cleveland Clinic prior to stepping on stage with each other? What about holding the debate outdoors or the candidates standing 12 feet apart from each other with glass separation like the VP debate? Virtual debates are so stupid. There are so many ways you could make things safe.

I also think Trump is a moron for skipping the virtual debate but oh well.

Trump's campaign never formally notified the commission on Presidential debates he was not going to participate. It was unilaterally cancelled.

I don't think Trump should debate Biden virtually. As I mentioned before, Biden would have the opportunity to use a teleprompter, and Trump needs to show America how inept Biden is. There are a lot of lessons that Trump should have learned from the last debate, that Trump could take advantage of in order to make Biden's poll numbers tank upon debating him. Biden using a teleprompter will make Biden look more competitant than he is.

Yeah, that's the line the Trump campaign is taking "They cancelled it, not us!"  Trump said he wouldn't do it though, he's the one that backed out.  I'm sure it's no coincidence that he suffered politically after the last debate and things have only gotten worse for him since then.  I suspect the measures they were going to put in place to prevent the second debate devolving into a train wreck like the first would've resulted in much of the same things he's complaining about it being a virtual debate.  He simply doesn't have the self control to restrain himself enough to have a civil debate without guard rails in place for him like a child.

This problem is framed deceptively. Let me explain.

It's totally possible to have a virtual debate with observers from the opposite team in the room with each debater. These could easily validate that no notes were being passed or teleprompters used. If Trump refused the 2nd debate it only proves that the Biden side would not stand these safeguards.

I think it was Gingrich who suggested they could both go to a local TV station as venues.

My personal opinion, the two can debate each other anytime, any way they want to. The "Debate Comm" can be tossed in the trash heap, if it becomes counter productive. Which now does seem to be the case.

SIDE NOTE: With the advances in AI and image processing, soon if not already, it gonna be pretty hard to trust them videos...

They would never agree about the rules, moderator, etc. The commission was working fine for decades until Trump decided to torpedo himself with his antics in the first debate and the COVID-19 denialism. Insisting on in-person debate during a pandemic is ludicrous, he sounds like one of those old-school "business people" demanding a fax because they can't figure out e-mail. And the teleprompter nonsense is nonsense. Put a few more cameras around them if you need to, where are they going to hide the teleprompter? If you're going down that far the conspiracy rabbit hole then you can't probably trust that they're not using some magic teleprompter even when they're on the same stage.

Well, there's a totally equally valid set of arguments from the Trump camp, and together this "Is what it is." It doesn't help to blame one or the other.

My opinion is that Biden had far more to gain from engineering no more debates. Given his state of mental bliss, he really needed a teleprompter or an ear prompt.

But if you want to think that Trump did a stupid thing, okay, then, that's what we've got.

The interpretation of the events as "Trump did yet another stupid thing and that proves Tump does stupid things and that's why we can't have Trump as president because he'll do stupid things and now he's going down the tubes" doesn't really matter.

This might have made some sense before the first debate. After that fiasco it's not quite clear if Trump could win a debate against an empty box of Cheerios and he seemed very happy to have found an excuse to back out of the second debate, which was supposed to be a town hall - a format that he failed miserably at a few weeks prior (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-donald-trump-failed-connect-voters-abc-news/story?id=73038449).

It's a mess, that's for sure.

The real loser though is the Debate Commission. The creation of unacceptable formats which one contender refused to work with is their doing.

Okay, I'm reversing my position on hearing that Biden has been talking about his run for the Senate. This is fucking ridiculously embarrassing. Give him to teleprompter and the virtual debate and tell him to shut up and read the prompter.

How much longer is this going on?

Relax, it will be over in 3 weeks plus a few days to count all illegal fraudulent fake ballots plus maybe a few weeks for the Supreme Court to rule on some conspiracy theories plus maybe a few months for Trump to concede but by that time no one will really care.

Hey, remember that time Trump said 711 instead of 911?

Or Thigh Land?

Or when he tweeted his wifes name spelled incorrectly, or congratulated the wrong state for winning the super bowl?

For someone that defends Trump at all costs - you should probably pick something to attack Biden for other than mixing up a word here and there.

I didn't attack Biden.

I'm agreeing.

Give the fucking senile idiot Biden the teleprompter and the virtual debate.

But lawyers are involved.

That couple of months could drag into how many years?

What about that IRS case, they've been working at it for nine years.

Okay you win. Maybe he's POTUS for nine-more while they argue the case, the appeal, the next level appeal, and the supreme court.

And finally wins the case, then gets to serve his four years.

Hello, 2033...

Ah, but the pesky constitution always getting in the way of well-intended dictatorships. Trump can't stay past noon January 20.

Nothing says having respect for the constitution quite like packing the courts so justices can legislate from the bench, effectively getting rid of separations of power.

Darn! The Republicans are so stupid. They should not be packing the court so that the Democrats can pack the court. Wait, that makes no sense. Well, but it's Democrats so things that make no sense are the norm. No reason to worry!

Okay, so we go down the rabbit hole of Pelosi running the vote count from the state reps, and that numerical count Republicans win and they pick Ted Cruz.

See? Yes, things could actually get worse than the Trumpery.

President Trump spoken the mind of the citizens during the presidential debate, when he said he will do everything possible to make US proud in the areas of economy and educational sector in the country. I think Trump is the right man for the re-election that is coming up soon.

Trump beat Biden in the debate and handily beat the propaganda overblown China virus..

I thought y’all said he was so old and fat that he would surely die or become incredibly ill with lifelong lasting effects from the news famous cold?

Imo, their will be another debate.. Just a little drama first..

Biden drank a bit too much of his own coolaid and is scared of the coof..

the same as me, related to the debate, I have not watched it in full from start to finish. because when watching at a glance the points earned are only a few and only cause attacks on their respective personalities, Trump attacks with JB's personal issues, and vice versa.

Do two figures have to argue in order to convince US citizens to believe in choosing them instead of proving it with works that can be felt directly by Americans themselve

There is a reason why both Biden and Harris are refusing to say if they will pack the SC, including in the debates. The only explanation is they know it is widely unpopular but plan on doing so anyway. If this was not the case, they would simply come out and say they are against court packing.

My theory is that they have a bunch of special interest groups behind the democratic party that are pouring money into campaigns who are upset at the conservative slant on the court, so naturally democrats are advocating for court packing so they don't lose funding. Would make sense for Biden to keep saying that he'd give his position after the election so he can continue raising money. I don't actually have any proof of this, so full tinfoil hat disclosure, but this is my only guess because I cannot comprehend why anyone would think it's a good idea to pack the courts. It's so illogical and I truly believe democrats are not that stupid. There has to be some other motive involved.

Democrats know if they end up packing the court, Republicans will do the same so again, this has to be about money.

Saying they won't could alienate younger more liberal voters (think Bernie Bros).

Saying they will could alienate Republicans that plan on voting for Biden.

I think it's entirely possible, and makes sense even, to keep packing the courts on the table without making a promise to actually do it.

I really think that, once you explain what 'packing the court is' to voters, they're REALLY not going to like it. While the Dems can try to explain it off as "WELL THEY PACKED THE COURT WITH RBG AND SCALIA" it's just not the same in the least. The GOP NEVER added seats at that time, they just used some political maneuvering to make sure that they were the ones with the choice on the court.

Say what you want about that, but I think the Dems would do the same if given the opportunity. Not me endorsing the strategy that Mitch and the GOP took, just pointing that out.

But I think that packing the courts is going to be something that the Republicans run with cause it seems like the only thing that has been sticking for them in terms of attacking. Maybe a bit more on the green new deal, fracking, etc. Fracking obviously isn't popular in all of the US, though in swing states it is (PA)

Trump backed out of a virtual debate because he feared his mic would be muted LOL

Shame on NBC giving him a town hall at the same time as Biden's already scheduled town hall on ABC.

Ah, the fine practice of debating the nuances of the lies of the lying liars.

This is gonna hurt Trump's feelings:


As for the non-debate itself, Biden's was boring and Trump's was cringy, as expected. Biden completely fumbled a question about black voters and Trump failed to denounce QAnon because - yep, he doesn't know them LOL. I can't recall anything else of particular importance but I only watched like 20 minutes of each.

An interesting statistic (that we'll never get) is not how many "watched", but how many quit watching and after how long.

That's kinda the consensus among my friends that did watch it. Biden is boring, but there are some people who prefer the boring normalcy compared to Trumps attack filled night. Nothing wrong with liking either style of a townhall.

A better moderated debate would've been better and more informative. But yeah - we didn't do that. Instead we just let both candidates talk to tons of town hall people.... lol.

Maybe we'll see a 3rd debate?

You can probably get that if you ask Nielsen. Not sure if they take Bitcoin.

That's probably put down somewhere. I know they put out some stats regarding the average amount of time each people had watched.

THOUGH FOLKS WE ARE HAVING ANOTHER PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE, SO THIS WILL BE THE SECOND ONE -- that's if you disregard the townhall and all that. Fitted with plexiglass, like the VP debate, and mute buttons so people can speak uninterrupted.

Maybe this will be more informative? Kinda doubt it though, sadly.

I would imagine Trump is gonna chant "lock him up" most of the time.

Two senile old men back at it again for round 2!

I'm not sure what'll happen tonight. Of course Trump is going to bring up the Hunter Biden saga and Joe Biden will recite what his campaign tells him, which is admit no fault, call the accusation baseless, and then maybe chalk it up to Russian disinformation (zero evidence of this). I don't expect Trump to deliver this attack very well. He'll probably ramble on while making no coherent sense. The average American really doesn't care, nor do I expect them to.

But really none of this matters. People have already made up their mind on who they're going to vote for. This debate will probably be useless, everyone will go into this with the mindset that their side will win despite what the actual end result is.

The moderator announced the topics earlier:

Fighting COVID-19, American families, race in America, climate change, national security and leadership.


I'm not sure what American families mean. What sort of question would be relevant here?

Why is there any debate. Biden doesn't have an excuse for being in the debates.


Joe Biden linked to "hundreds of millions of dollars" in money laundering schemes (http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/292965-2020-10-22-joe-biden-linked-to-hundreds-of-millions-of-dollars-in.htm)




8)

Eh, it doesn't really seem like he has a cute little slogan for Biden in the same way that he had one for Clinton. But yes, I also think that it is going to devolve into a shitshow.


What's better then watching two old men yell incoherent arguments at one another that make literally no sense????? NAME SOME THINGS FOLKS.

But yes, Trumps line of attack against Biden regarding Hunter Biden and his alleged influence peddling could actually be something, though you're totally right. Trump is going to yell a ton of random shit and people won't be able to understand what he's talking about. Some will know, as those are the die hard Trumpers that have him on twitter and see him on Fox -- though the regular voters that he needs to join his camp will be like what the fuck is going on.

Can't wait for the shitshow to begin.

Hunter Biden. Trump's "family business" and three marriages. Very American, much family.

So far they're having a civil debate tonight.  Come on!

Watching.. Trump is being too soft, but still kicking his ass..

Biden's wearing out.

Apparently Biden is running against Lincoln. Or maybe this is a dog whistle on the part of Biden to his supporters.

I noticed there were several times in which Biden was unable to recall specific facts and got a lot wrong.

Probably most importantly, Biden said he would shut down the oil industry (maybe to help Burisma).

Trump won this debate.

But a clear bullshit on his part was how clean USA air is.

It is clean because no one is driving due to covid.

My biggest issue is clean air.

I am a life long asthmatic.

My wife still has lung damage due to covid.

Trump was far too soft.. Should have drilled harder on more points.. Should have got demanding..
Biden looked like he was just trying to survive..

Trump won on China, Russia, NK, Ukraine, covid, oil, "green" BS, etc..

Or maybe it's just my bias..

Trump should have railroaded Biden and the moderator and hit harder on the whole Hunter Biden situation..
Wish he would have just ran them over like a tank..

Trump sounded like he was talking to a child the entire time..
Boooo Trump.. You are supposed to be a killer..

Wow, that actually was a debate. A bit of rambling here and there but that was as good as it gets. It was a boring debate, but I think in everyone's interest that's probably better than a shouting match.

I think Trump won overall because of his latter half performance but Biden was beating him heavily on COVID response and healthcare. The Trump campaign is going to have an absolute field day with Biden on fracking and his weird ass condemnation of the oil industry which came out of no where.

He admitted he was carbonphobic
Wants to shut down the entire oilfield..
Exactly what all of America's enemies want..

By by PA and OH.. OK, LA, ND, TX, etc.. And anyone with enough braincells to realize that CO2 is NOT a pollutant..

Catch where he hit on the fact that wind turbines create more pollution than than they solve, and that natural gas is cleaner??
Yeah..

Screw wind turbines right?


Nope..
Trump smoked him with "you called my travel restrictions xenophobic" and he was absolutely right about the shutdowns causing more harm than covid itself..
"You can't do that Joe"..

Biden had no solutions to covid other than more shutdowns..

Trump was right on "protect the elderly and health compromised"..
We can't shut the whole country down.. Rather we should just protect those who are highly at risk.. Just like the flu (but no vaccine yet)..


You have a positive covid antibodies test to be sure? Or you just assume that?
Did it hit you hard too? Are you SURE it was covid?


I think it's likely I had covid.. I had a cough for 3 weeks and I've mostly gotten over it..
Have a physical coming up Tuesday preceded by a fitness evaluation.. Wish me luck..
Damn I just love geting my BP and heart rate taken just after maxing out on squats and pushups etc.. NOT...

You ever blow into one of those pulmonary test jigs? Not fun at all..
"Beep- ""Blow blow blow blow blow blow"" hhhheeee ""blow blow blow blow"" Beep" ... Like damn man, I've been flat chested for 10 seconds and I'm supposed to keep blowing? Humans can do that?
"Shit doc, am I gonna die soon? I know I smoke too much.. :("
"No you passed"
"Good thing you already took my BP yo ;)"

I'd like to know what made Biden turn against the "Poor Boys" suddenly.  I thought he previously said they're "just as smart as white kids".

A narcissist who's largely living in fantasy-land vs a senile old politician... And they both ended up visibly winded by the end.

The whole "trojan horse for socialism" argument is just stupid; people who aren't already voting for Trump simply find it unbelievable. "You're running against Joe Biden!" And Trump brings up the stock market... You're not speaking to avid Fox News watchers, Don.

Trump should've pointed out that at least according to FBI director Ratcliffe, Russia and Iran are trying to make Trump lose. (This is just spin from Ratcliffe, but it would've been effective for Trump to repeat.)

Framing the question of structural racism in terms of "the talk" was smart by the moderator, connecting something abstract to something that most people can find believable and many will relate to personally. Biden's response to the question was effective, though when you dig deeper, the Democratic ideology toward structural racism is basically that racism is original sin: everyone/everything has it, it can't be removed, and all you can do is constantly but futilely try to atone for it through various forms of self-flagellation. IMO this is both wrongheaded and ultimately an unpopular message, but yet the Republicans always seem to want to ignore the issue entirely rather than actually making an ideological argument. Trump's response in this case was to basically dodge the question and point to several ways in which he's helped minority communities, which was an effective response, but like most Republicans, he avoids presenting an actual ideology here. Republicans should say something like, "A great many people, especially minority communities, feel oppressed by the system, often with good reason. We should try to fix this. However, the end goal is colorblindness: to put racial divisions behind us. You don't do that through stuff like affirmative action or critical race theory, which only solidify racial divisions."

It's pathetic that Trump wasn't more effective at attacking someone who is both in terms of style and record as weak as Biden. Both sides made several effective arguments, though Biden was weaker on style, so I'd say that Trump "won", though this'll have nearly zero impact: even less than the previous debates.

you can buy home versions of spirometers (i think thats the term). just get a baseline and keep seeing if you can match it.

not a diagnostic tool per se but it can help you notice a gradual decline. log your readings

a pulse oximiter is useful too. just keep in touch with your MD, these are not meant to be substitutes for true medical care.

I think his strategy was right but the problem with Biden is that he used too much emotional hyperbole and rhetoric that I don't think Americans are wise enough to pick up on it.

He talked about 220k dead and people missing family members at the dinner table, or reaching over at someone out of habit and not having them there. It's nonsense and it's clear that his democratic staffers came up with these lines for Biden to recite. It's also apparent that Biden would not have done much better but he keeps throwing up this attack line hoping it sticks.

Biden was trying to claim to be not against Fracking and ended up taking a far worse position.

It appears that Biden is trying to privately tell the far left wing of his party that he will be an extremist while telling the rest of the country that he will be moderate.

This is the exact same argument that democrats made in the 2018 midterm elections, and since the new congress was sworn in, Democrats have voted almost always as a bloc, including for impeachment that had no chance of actually removing the president (that would only divide the country), and other extreme bills (also that are going nowhere in the Senate).

There is no question. There is no debate. All there is are lies. But are they really lies? Looks like they have solid evidence of Biden's self-incriminating activity... both Bidens. Watch the video at the site.


Video Report: Diary Of Joe Biden's Daughter Alleges Years Of Sexual Molestation (http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/293148-2020-10-25-video-report-diary-of-joe-bidens-daughter-alleges-years-of.htm)




8)

Interesting to know but I still consider such debates Avenue to know the best strategic liars. They are all desperate for power and would make unfulfilling promises to the citizens just to get their vote during election and as soon as they assume power their manifesto change automatically. Irrespective of all odds we keep our heart positive and pray for better leaders not just in America but worldwide because I believe with good leadership in the world  Bitcoin would have better chances even as a decentralized currency.I have a dream that one day I would pay my bills using bitcoin!

WELCOME to POLITICS buddy, where everything is a lie, and greed comes on top. I actually love how they make offensive moves, strategies against the other party just to make themselves pretty and amusing to the mass. All I can say about politics is just vote for the lesser evil. I really don't care whoever presides as the presidents of the united states, but I do not want Trump to win, just in my opinion, cause he already has himself for 6 years in that seat. So let somebody do the rest. I also want to see how the other candidate of united states for the presidency acts as the new president. I want to see him myself, governing the entire nation, with all the eyes on the activities, and propaganda regarding the sensitive issues the nations are currently facing.

The debate went well with Joe Biden who is when educated than Trump who is the president of US correctly. Joe Biden mentioned so many amenities he will help the government to achieve in one year if elected as the president of US. Many citizens are changing their minds with Joe Biden talk which are words of politics.
Trump is not educated like Biden but if it comes to richest Trump is more richer than joe Biden. Biden will surely win this debate because of his speech that is touching every body to change their mind to choose him as the next president.

China needs to work on their their pro Biden bots. ^^

^^^ Especially now that we have super-strong evidence that a Chinese movie star helped Hunter get high, probably in Beijing. Btw, she's from Wuhan.

8)

Yeah that entire fracking answer + the oil portion of things is NOT going to bode well with those in PA, a critical state that Trump needs to flip on his path to (potential) victory.

We're a good few days out of the debate at this point, and Trump is continuing to NAIL the fact that Biden went against fracking. Trump is currently planning an EO on fracking to get some more media attention around it. National level media matters, but the local PA media is probably covering the SHIT about fracking and what each person thinks about it.

Last ditch effort to win a must win state. If Trump wins Florida, Arizona, and Pennsylvania, map could end up looking like this with a Trump Victory

https://www.270towin.com/maps/ylNlk.png

Trump Fracking WSJ - https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-weighs-executive-order-to-show-support-for-fracking-11603825225

I think it’s kinda stupid because we can’t NOT frac.. I mean, unless you want the entire world to starve to death, we gotta frac.

Fracking is WAYYYY down since COVID hit..
https://www.aogr.com/web-exclusives/us-frac-spread-count/2020

We went from over 350 frac crews running to 45 this year due to COVID!!!
Back up to about 130 right now but their were 370 this time last year running..

Fracking is damn good jobs if your tough enough to handle it.. While I was fracking my average full pull weeks paid me 112 hours PER WEEK standard IF I didn’t end up on the clock any extra time for any reason.. I’ve gotten 40 hours in 2 days more than a couple times..

Overtime before lunch on Wednesday.. (week starts Monday)

Damn I miss it.. Will make ya feel like a hero at times.. A lot of fun and very personally fulfilling work..
Money is pretty good too..

Difficult getting a frac job right now last I tried..



All this talk about minorities/blacks not having the same opportunity, white privilege nonsense..
Bring fracking back and they have all the opportunity in the world, if they can hack it..
Have fracked with plenty of blacks and all sorts of races, they can do it, don’t need no college degree, just common sense and work ethic..
Women too..

Blender tender here.. Basically the heart feeding the fleet, mixing all pumping fluids with my 2,400 hp of pumps usually running about 4,000 gallons per minute @80-100psi, feeding the 35,000hp worth of high pressure pumps that boost it up to 10,000-13,000 psi and down the hole it goes..
Things happened by my hand and when problems happen many many times it was my job to save the day.. Especially running experimental crap when ya never know what it’s gonna do..

You ever hear/feel 30,000 horse power blasting? Omg.. Love it..

Job interviews.. Plumbing experience? Lol yeah a bit.. Pressure testing? Only up to 15k.. Can you work overtime? Yeah, I think so.. So you can work 60 hours a week? Lolwut?
Makes most anything else almost seem like a joke once you’ve done something like that..