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Alternate cryptocurrencies => Altcoin Discussion => Topic started by: FandangledGizmo on June 24, 2014, 01:56:29 PM



Title: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on June 24, 2014, 01:56:29 PM
Bitshares has been off the radar for a bit and I wanted to let you know that it is set to explode soon!!!!

First off Bitshares-PTS is an angel fund that will get you a stake in a lot of DAC's, the first one Bitshares X (Which is a bank and exchange that will also help you hold the value of a $ or gold in a decentralised way) is in advanced testing and is being released soon.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5250.0 - That has already been allocated but it is looking fantastic and will bring a lot of attention to Bitshares-PTS.

There are snapshots coming up that will get you good stakes in some great companies, Bitshares Music, Bitshares DNS & Bitshares Lottery just to name a few.

Personally my favourite is Bitshares music it's going to be like Hollywood Stock Exchange but real and for music, where artists can sell shares in their songs/albums and you get a proceed of their sales, it even looks like some labels may be interested so you may even be able to buy shares in artists revenue from other sources too. They've got a great guy with loads of industry experience.

The other big reasons are -

-You can get a stake in Bitshares  through Bitshares-AGS but only for the next 25 days, when this closes the only way will be Bitshares-PTS. (So all the demand for AGS will be re-directed to PTS, right now BTC/PTS volume is very low so any increased demand will shoot up price imo!) http://www1.agsexplorer.com/

- The Bitshares-AGS donation rate will probably increase substantially in the last 10-15 days, driving up demand for Bitshares-PTS, too.
(You can get AGS buy donating BTC or PTS so more people donating PTS in the last days means increased demand.)

- DPOS their new system to rival POW and POS will be released in the next few weeks and is currently in advanced testing.

---------

All in all I think it is the perfect time to buy, what do you guys think of Bitshares?



Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: nikola384 on June 26, 2014, 09:30:43 PM

I am happy that I already bought most I had planned...



Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: bitcoincal on June 26, 2014, 10:02:15 PM
How does Bitshares work?

Do you just donate http://www1.agsexplorer.com/ to BTC or PTS?

edit: Ok, I see I have to exchange my BTC for PTS before I can donate to the PTS fund.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: Led on June 27, 2014, 10:45:55 PM
Bitshares has been off the radar for a bit and I wanted to let you know that it is set to explode soon!!!!
... ---------
All in all I think it is the perfect time to buy, what do you guys think of Bitshares?

When will I be able to sell my Bitshares-X?  ???  I would like to cash out some of them. I have my wallet in cold storage. I've been waiting _f o r e v e r_  for Bitshares-X to start working like a cryptocurrency that I can buy/sell. 


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on June 28, 2014, 04:14:41 AM
Bitshares has been off the radar for a bit and I wanted to let you know that it is set to explode soon!!!!
... ---------
All in all I think it is the perfect time to buy, what do you guys think of Bitshares?

When will I be able to sell my Bitshares-X?  ???  I would like to cash out some of them. I have my wallet in cold storage. I've been waiting _f o r e v e r_  for Bitshares-X to start working like a cryptocurrency that I can buy/sell. 


Lucky you you donated before Bitshares X, wish I could have got more.
They are doing testing at the moment, dry run 6

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=3.0

I agree though, they've taken ages... Should have at least made it tradeable much earlier.
Their reason was this new DPOS system that is 'supposed' to be super fast way to process transactions.

The good news is now that it's in final testing, a lot of stuff is set to happen quickly all at once.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on June 28, 2014, 04:30:54 AM
This is all pretty obscure to me.
I see a "Donate BTC Now" button.
It brings up a qr code.
Suppose I send some BTC to that address... what then?  You keep my BTC?
Is there an explanation somewhere of how this works?  How do I buy in to this thing called bitshares?
Edit:  I am doing some reading, like this thread
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1863.0
but still don't understand the mechanics of donating and how to secure my stake.  Take a wrong step and my donation disappears into oblivion.

I don't keep the BTC dude, I'm just an excited supporter trying to do my part to let people know about it.

But yes the address is 1ANGELwQwWxMmbdaSWhWLqBEtPTkWb8uDc

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1863.0

So just send BTC to that address from your wallet/address you control (have private key for), I.e don't send it from an exchange.

Once you send you can see it at that site and if you click on the address you sent from it should tell you how many AGS you know have. http://www1.agsexplorer.com

(There are 2 000 000 AGS being awarded, 10 000 a day, for 200 days, only 20 days left...)

Yes they keep the BTC in a development fund, they have some publicly viewable ledger where they track funding so you can see what they spend it on.

This is some of the team...

http://bitshares.org/team.jpg

Now when they release a product or someone else releases a product that wants to honour AGS then your private key for the address you donated from should access your shares in the new company.

As I said the big ones coming up soon (that donating now would get you shares in) are BitShares DNS, BitShares Music, Lottery/Gaming too I think, then plus there are independent projects looking to honour Bitshares once the window closes too.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: smoothie on June 28, 2014, 04:57:01 AM
Post pic with no indication of who is who and take your word for it?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: bitcoincal on June 28, 2014, 08:34:06 AM
Do the AGS dividends pay out in PTS or BTC?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: From Above on June 28, 2014, 09:06:50 AM
dudes,  BitShares was debunked as bullshit earlier, why keep postig the shite?

~CfA~


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: schnötzel on June 28, 2014, 09:40:24 AM
dudes,  BitShares was debunked as bullshit earlier, why keep postig the shite?

~CfA~

source?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: moreia on June 28, 2014, 10:26:52 AM
this topic was very speculative and not based on any facts at all.
Prove to us why this will jump. Give us some hard articles and information or some solid proof.
I don't plan on converting my BTC to PTS anytime soon


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on June 28, 2014, 11:25:24 AM
Post pic with no indication of who is who and take your word for it?

Hi, sorry. I suppose that's a good point.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5079.0

Quote
 Denny, Vikram, Nathan, Nikolai, Dan, Nikita  

http://bitshares.org/team.jpg

Guy with hands in square, front right is Daniel Larimer - Founder ('Bytemaster' on the BitShares forum)
Guy behind him, no shoes is Nikolei Mushegia, he's listed as working on the soon to be snapshotted company, BitShares DNS, but he's a real asset in everything. ('Toast' on the forum.)
Far right is Nikita Sharakhoy, software engineer.
Far left is Denny Wang, he's a developer. (Very involved in BitShares Lotto I believe, handle is 'Hackfisher' on the forum)
Behind him is Vikram Rajkumar (BitShares DNS)
Guy in middle is Nathan Hurt, developer I believe.

They're also on their team page as well as a few others
http://bitshares.org/community/team/


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on June 28, 2014, 12:07:27 PM
this topic was very speculative and not based on any facts at all.
Prove to us why this will jump. Give us some hard articles and information or some solid proof.
I don't plan on converting my BTC to PTS anytime soon

Any anticipation at future price movement will be speculative hence the question mark in the title.

I can give you more of my thinking though.

The first major DAC they announced was BitShares X which was Snapshotted from BitShares-PTS&AGS on 28/02/104
Look at the price right after, it went from $15 to $5, a 66% decline. https://coinmarketcap.com/pts_180.html

1. That was just one DAC from a fairly unknown, unproven company. They now have a full development team and BitShares X & their new DPOS system should both be released shortly. (Look at the testing thread in this section to see if you think they are close- https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=343e9d1b919aae1d7e3963ff83823cc6&board=3.0)

They will then also not just be announcing 1 DAC but a group of DAC's.

2. At the time of the BitShares X snapshot, you could also get a stake through BitShares-AGS, you can see leading up to the 28/02 BitShares AGS was getting 150 BTC a day! http://www1.agsexplorer.com/ (Go to chart section and zoom in on 2nd half of February)
 
But the AGS window is closing in 20 days so all the demand when DAC's are announced will be driven to BitShares PTS.
 
3. The volume now is very low, any increase will move the price. I also urge to look at the exchanges where it's traded. There is just not a lot for sale. I've accumulated some new PTS slowly over the last two weeks for this two month trade but my base PTS is locked down to give me a share in all their DAC's for the next 2-5 years. I believe most holders are of the same mindset as a result

4. Oh BitShares-PTS has all mostly been mined (80%+). There will only ever be 2 000 000 PTS and there are already 1 645 000.


(Regards articles you can an intro to their new DPOS system here,  http://bitshares.org/intro-to-delegated-proof-of-stake/ , intro to their new Bank DAC (aLready snapshotted) https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=12.0 .)


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on June 28, 2014, 12:27:18 PM
Do the AGS dividends pay out in PTS or BTC?

Neither. They get you shares in new DAC's.

So for example, when the Bank & Exchange DAC is tradeable in a few weeks, I will be allocated shares based on how many BitShares-AGS/PTS I had at the time of the snapshot.



Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: bitcoincal on June 28, 2014, 05:24:32 PM
Do the AGS dividends pay out in PTS or BTC?

Neither. They get you shares in new DAC's.

So for example, when the Bank & Exchange DAC is tradeable in a few weeks, I will be allocated shares based on how many BitShares-AGS/PTS I had at the time of the snapshot.



Thanks for the explanation.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: brekyrself on June 28, 2014, 11:43:37 PM
this topic was very speculative and not based on any facts at all.
Prove to us why this will jump. Give us some hard articles and information or some solid proof.
I don't plan on converting my BTC to PTS anytime soon

Any anticipation at future price movement will be speculative hence the question mark in the title.

I can give you more of my thinking though.

The first major DAC they announced was BitShares X which was Snapshotted from BitShares-PTS&AGS on 28/02/104
Look at the price right after, it went from $15 to $5, a 66% decline. https://coinmarketcap.com/pts_180.html

1. That was just one DAC from a fairly unknown, unproven company. They now have a full development team and BitShares X & their new DPOS system should both be released shortly. (Look at the testing thread in this section to see if you think they are close- https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=343e9d1b919aae1d7e3963ff83823cc6&board=3.0)

They will then also not just be announcing 1 DAC but a group of DAC's.

2. At the time of the BitShares X snapshot, you could also get a stake through BitShares-AGS, you can see leading up to the 28/02 BitShares AGS was getting 150 BTC a day! http://www1.agsexplorer.com/ (Go to chart section and zoom in on 2nd half of February)
 
But the AGS window is closing in 20 days so all the demand when DAC's are announced will be driven to BitShares PTS.
 
3. The volume now is very low, any increase will move the price. I also urge to look at the exchanges where it's traded. There is just not a lot for sale. I've accumulated some new PTS slowly over the last two weeks for this two month trade but my base PTS is locked down to give me a share in all their DAC's for the next 2-5 years. I believe most holders are of the same mindset as a result

4. Oh BitShares-PTS has all mostly been mined (80%+). There will only ever be 2 000 000 PTS and there are already 1 645 000.


(Regards articles you can an intro to their new DPOS system here,  http://bitshares.org/intro-to-delegated-proof-of-stake/ , intro to their new Bank DAC (aLready snapshotted) https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=12.0 .)


Very nice summary.  I would also say PTS eventually going to DPOS will make it much more useful day to day.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: brian_23452 on June 29, 2014, 01:51:54 AM
Bitshares has been off the radar for a bit and I wanted to let you know that it is set to explode soon!!!!

First off Bitshares-PTS is an angel fund that will get you a stake in a lot of DAC's, the first one Bitshares X (Which is a bank and exchange that will also help you hold the value of a $ or gold in a decentralised way) is in advanced testing and is being released soon.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5250.0 - That has already been allocated but it is looking fantastic and will bring a lot of attention to Bitshares-PTS.

There are snapshots coming up that will get you good stakes in some great companies, Bitshares Music, Bitshares DNS & Bitshares Lottery just to name a few.

Personally my favourite is Bitshares music it's going to be like Hollywood Stock Exchange but real and for music, where artists can sell shares in their songs/albums and you get a proceed of their sales, it even looks like some labels may be interested so you may even be able to buy shares in artists revenue from other sources too. They've got a great guy with loads of industry experience.

The other big reasons are -

-You can get a stake in Bitshares  through Bitshares-AGS but only for the next 25 days, when this closes the only way will be Bitshares-PTS. (So all the demand for AGS will be re-directed to PTS, right now BTC/PTS volume is very low so any increased demand will shoot up price imo!) http://www1.agsexplorer.com/

- The Bitshares-AGS donation rate will probably increase substantially in the last 10-15 days, driving up demand for Bitshares-PTS, too.
(You can get AGS buy donating BTC or PTS so more people donating PTS in the last days means increased demand.)

- DPOS their new system to rival POW and POS will be released in the next few weeks and is currently in advanced testing.

---------

All in all I think it is the perfect time to buy, what do you guys think of Bitshares?



This shitcoin is still around???  Weren't they supposed to pay everyone their bitshares-x like....4 months ago or something but never did? 


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: brekyrself on June 29, 2014, 05:26:50 AM
Bitshares has been off the radar for a bit and I wanted to let you know that it is set to explode soon!!!!

First off Bitshares-PTS is an angel fund that will get you a stake in a lot of DAC's, the first one Bitshares X (Which is a bank and exchange that will also help you hold the value of a $ or gold in a decentralised way) is in advanced testing and is being released soon.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5250.0 - That has already been allocated but it is looking fantastic and will bring a lot of attention to Bitshares-PTS.

There are snapshots coming up that will get you good stakes in some great companies, Bitshares Music, Bitshares DNS & Bitshares Lottery just to name a few.

Personally my favourite is Bitshares music it's going to be like Hollywood Stock Exchange but real and for music, where artists can sell shares in their songs/albums and you get a proceed of their sales, it even looks like some labels may be interested so you may even be able to buy shares in artists revenue from other sources too. They've got a great guy with loads of industry experience.

The other big reasons are -

-You can get a stake in Bitshares  through Bitshares-AGS but only for the next 25 days, when this closes the only way will be Bitshares-PTS. (So all the demand for AGS will be re-directed to PTS, right now BTC/PTS volume is very low so any increased demand will shoot up price imo!) http://www1.agsexplorer.com/

- The Bitshares-AGS donation rate will probably increase substantially in the last 10-15 days, driving up demand for Bitshares-PTS, too.
(You can get AGS buy donating BTC or PTS so more people donating PTS in the last days means increased demand.)

- DPOS their new system to rival POW and POS will be released in the next few weeks and is currently in advanced testing.

---------

All in all I think it is the perfect time to buy, what do you guys think of Bitshares?



This shitcoin is still around???  Weren't they supposed to pay everyone their bitshares-x like....4 months ago or something but never did? 

Bitshares is still under development.  They have been running test network after test network to fix major bugs before release.  See bitsharestalk.org or their github to see what's going on.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on June 29, 2014, 02:13:00 PM

This shitcoin is still around???  Weren't they supposed to pay everyone their bitshares-x like....4 months ago or something but never did?  

To be honest, I was a bit frustrated with length of time they've taken and would have liked BitShares XT tradeable earlier. However it should be worth the wait.

By comparison, I have circa 50% in Bitcoin still, though I like Bitcoin, it is pretty centralised because you only have to get to two people to destroy confidence in the system at a crucial time.
The confirmation times & transactions per second are excruciatingly slow hence the need for Bitpay etc.
But the big one for me is that a lot of merchants let you pay in Bitcoin but transfer straight to $.

BitShares X if it eventually is able to do what it says on the tin, will have a system that's more decentralised but with enough trust (knowing who will produce next block) that they can handle MasterCard/Visa volumes and process them incredibly rapidly. More importantly you will 'hopefully' be able to hold BitUSD or BitGold on a blockchain. So it's not a shitcoin, more like the - 'could change everything coin' so I guess actually you could call it 'the shit' coin :)

The first chain will have interest payments removed and be light on features but this is the idea for those that are interested. (Buying PTS now won't get you a stake in it, you'll have to wait a few weeks till it becomes tradeable.)

Quote
BitShares is a revolutionary new bank and exchange that could rival the value of the largest banks in the world such as JP Morgan and Bank of America in just a few years. How could this new upstart grow so quickly?  BitShares offers a bank account that earns 5% interest where funds can be transferred in minutes anywhere in the world with more privacy and security than a Swiss bank account.  Your account can never be frozen, your funds cannot be seized, and the bank can never face collapse due to loan defaults or fraud.  All of this is made possible without requiring any employees, lawyers, regulatory compliance, vaults, buildings, and other infrastructure required by traditional banks.  Unlike existing banks, you can hold your balance denominated in gold, silver, oil, or other commodities in additional to national currencies while earning 5% interest.  

In addition to acting as a bank, BitShares also serves as an exchange where currencies, commodities, and stock derivatives can be traded with most of the features used by professional traders including shorts and options.   The Bank takes a cut on every transaction and pays 100% of these transaction fees as dividends to the shareholders.  BitShares can achieve this feat using the same technology that makes Bitcoin possible, irrevocable decentralized automated consensus forming.    

You can keep track of progress and learn more here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=3.0


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: brian_23452 on June 29, 2014, 03:20:12 PM

This shitcoin is still around???  Weren't they supposed to pay everyone their bitshares-x like....4 months ago or something but never did?  

To be honest, I was a bit frustrated with length of time they've taken and would have liked BitShares XT tradeable earlier. However it should be worth the wait.

By comparison, I have circa 50% in Bitcoin still, though I like Bitcoin, it is pretty centralised because you only have to get to two people to destroy confidence in the system at a crucial time.
The confirmation times & transactions per second are excruciatingly slow hence the need for Bitpay etc.
But the big one for me is that a lot of merchants let you pay in Bitcoin but transfer straight to $.

BitShares X if it eventually is able to do what it says on the tin, will have a system that's more decentralised but with enough trust (knowing who will produce next block) that they can handle MasterCard/Visa volumes and process them incredibly rapidly. More importantly you will 'hopefully' be able to hold BitUSD or BitGold on a blockchain. So it's not a shitcoin, more like the - 'could change everything coin' so I guess actually you could call it 'the shit' coin :)

The first chain will have interest payments removed and be light on features but this is the idea for those that are interested. (Buying PTS now won't get you a stake in it, you'll have to wait a few weeks till it becomes tradeable.)

Quote
BitShares is a revolutionary new bank and exchange that could rival the value of the largest banks in the world such as JP Morgan and Bank of America in just a few years. How could this new upstart grow so quickly?  BitShares offers a bank account that earns 5% interest where funds can be transferred in minutes anywhere in the world with more privacy and security than a Swiss bank account.  Your account can never be frozen, your funds cannot be seized, and the bank can never face collapse due to loan defaults or fraud.  All of this is made possible without requiring any employees, lawyers, regulatory compliance, vaults, buildings, and other infrastructure required by traditional banks.  Unlike existing banks, you can hold your balance denominated in gold, silver, oil, or other commodities in additional to national currencies while earning 5% interest.  

In addition to acting as a bank, BitShares also serves as an exchange where currencies, commodities, and stock derivatives can be traded with most of the features used by professional traders including shorts and options.   The Bank takes a cut on every transaction and pays 100% of these transaction fees as dividends to the shareholders.  BitShares can achieve this feat using the same technology that makes Bitcoin possible, irrevocable decentralized automated consensus forming.    

You can keep track of progress and learn more here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=3.0


Yea right.  Every other day someone comes out with a coin that will "revolutionize everything".  I won't go through all of your points one by one, suffice to say though bitshares doesn't do any of the things you say it does.  Bitshares doesn't do anything, actually.  None of the "revolutionary" features are active.  They are all way overdue.  What you have is a lot of promises from a company that has failed to deliver on a single promise.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on June 29, 2014, 06:33:02 PM

This shitcoin is still around???  Weren't they supposed to pay everyone their bitshares-x like....4 months ago or something but never did?  

To be honest, I was a bit frustrated with length of time they've taken and would have liked BitShares XT tradeable earlier. However it should be worth the wait.

By comparison, I have circa 50% in Bitcoin still, though I like Bitcoin, it is pretty centralised because you only have to get to two people to destroy confidence in the system at a crucial time.
The confirmation times & transactions per second are excruciatingly slow hence the need for Bitpay etc.
But the big one for me is that a lot of merchants let you pay in Bitcoin but transfer straight to $.

BitShares X if it eventually is able to do what it says on the tin, will have a system that's more decentralised but with enough trust (knowing who will produce next block) that they can handle MasterCard/Visa volumes and process them incredibly rapidly. More importantly you will 'hopefully' be able to hold BitUSD or BitGold on a blockchain. So it's not a shitcoin, more like the - 'could change everything coin' so I guess actually you could call it 'the shit' coin :)

The first chain will have interest payments removed and be light on features but this is the idea for those that are interested. (Buying PTS now won't get you a stake in it, you'll have to wait a few weeks till it becomes tradeable.)

Quote
BitShares is a revolutionary new bank and exchange that could rival the value of the largest banks in the world such as JP Morgan and Bank of America in just a few years. How could this new upstart grow so quickly?  BitShares offers a bank account that earns 5% interest where funds can be transferred in minutes anywhere in the world with more privacy and security than a Swiss bank account.  Your account can never be frozen, your funds cannot be seized, and the bank can never face collapse due to loan defaults or fraud.  All of this is made possible without requiring any employees, lawyers, regulatory compliance, vaults, buildings, and other infrastructure required by traditional banks.  Unlike existing banks, you can hold your balance denominated in gold, silver, oil, or other commodities in additional to national currencies while earning 5% interest.  

In addition to acting as a bank, BitShares also serves as an exchange where currencies, commodities, and stock derivatives can be traded with most of the features used by professional traders including shorts and options.   The Bank takes a cut on every transaction and pays 100% of these transaction fees as dividends to the shareholders.  BitShares can achieve this feat using the same technology that makes Bitcoin possible, irrevocable decentralized automated consensus forming.    

You can keep track of progress and learn more here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=3.0


Yea right.  Every other day someone comes out with a coin that will "revolutionize everything".  I won't go through all of your points one by one, suffice to say though bitshares doesn't do any of the things you say it does.  Bitshares doesn't do anything, actually.  None of the "revolutionary" features are active.  They are all way overdue.  What you have is a lot of promises from a company that has failed to deliver on a single promise.

Yes there's been delays. Hence the low share price & volume. I believe BitShares XT & DPOS will be released in the next few weeks so that's one of the reasons why I believe there's a unique buying opportunity.

Waiting till something's released or all features are active is safer but not as lucrative.

You can see how development and testing is going here
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=3.0



Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: MisO69 on June 29, 2014, 07:40:07 PM
dudes,  BitShares was debunked as bullshit earlier, why keep postig the shite?

~CfA~

source?

I would like to see that as well.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: jshow5555 on June 29, 2014, 08:09:53 PM

This shitcoin is still around???  Weren't they supposed to pay everyone their bitshares-x like....4 months ago or something but never did?  

To be honest, I was a bit frustrated with length of time they've taken and would have liked BitShares XT tradeable earlier. However it should be worth the wait.

By comparison, I have circa 50% in Bitcoin still, though I like Bitcoin, it is pretty centralised because you only have to get to two people to destroy confidence in the system at a crucial time.
The confirmation times & transactions per second are excruciatingly slow hence the need for Bitpay etc.
But the big one for me is that a lot of merchants let you pay in Bitcoin but transfer straight to $.

BitShares X if it eventually is able to do what it says on the tin, will have a system that's more decentralised but with enough trust (knowing who will produce next block) that they can handle MasterCard/Visa volumes and process them incredibly rapidly. More importantly you will 'hopefully' be able to hold BitUSD or BitGold on a blockchain. So it's not a shitcoin, more like the - 'could change everything coin' so I guess actually you could call it 'the shit' coin :)

The first chain will have interest payments removed and be light on features but this is the idea for those that are interested. (Buying PTS now won't get you a stake in it, you'll have to wait a few weeks till it becomes tradeable.)

Quote
BitShares is a revolutionary new bank and exchange that could rival the value of the largest banks in the world such as JP Morgan and Bank of America in just a few years. How could this new upstart grow so quickly?  BitShares offers a bank account that earns 5% interest where funds can be transferred in minutes anywhere in the world with more privacy and security than a Swiss bank account.  Your account can never be frozen, your funds cannot be seized, and the bank can never face collapse due to loan defaults or fraud.  All of this is made possible without requiring any employees, lawyers, regulatory compliance, vaults, buildings, and other infrastructure required by traditional banks.  Unlike existing banks, you can hold your balance denominated in gold, silver, oil, or other commodities in additional to national currencies while earning 5% interest.  

In addition to acting as a bank, BitShares also serves as an exchange where currencies, commodities, and stock derivatives can be traded with most of the features used by professional traders including shorts and options.   The Bank takes a cut on every transaction and pays 100% of these transaction fees as dividends to the shareholders.  BitShares can achieve this feat using the same technology that makes Bitcoin possible, irrevocable decentralized automated consensus forming.    

You can keep track of progress and learn more here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=3.0


Yea right.  Every other day someone comes out with a coin that will "revolutionize everything".  I won't go through all of your points one by one, suffice to say though bitshares doesn't do any of the things you say it does.  Bitshares doesn't do anything, actually.  None of the "revolutionary" features are active.  They are all way overdue.  What you have is a lot of promises from a company that has failed to deliver on a single promise.

Yes there's been delays. Hence the low share price & volume. I believe BitShares XT & DPOS will be released in the next few weeks so that's one of the reasons why I believe there's a unique buying opportunity.

Waiting till something's released or all features are active is safer but not as lucrative.

You can see how development and testing is going here
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=3.0



Interesting... I should investigate more. Where is it better place to start https://bitsharestalk.org/ or https://bitshares.org/  ?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: bitcoincal on June 29, 2014, 08:18:38 PM

This shitcoin is still around???  Weren't they supposed to pay everyone their bitshares-x like....4 months ago or something but never did?  

To be honest, I was a bit frustrated with length of time they've taken and would have liked BitShares XT tradeable earlier. However it should be worth the wait.

By comparison, I have circa 50% in Bitcoin still, though I like Bitcoin, it is pretty centralised because you only have to get to two people to destroy confidence in the system at a crucial time.
The confirmation times & transactions per second are excruciatingly slow hence the need for Bitpay etc.
But the big one for me is that a lot of merchants let you pay in Bitcoin but transfer straight to $.

BitShares X if it eventually is able to do what it says on the tin, will have a system that's more decentralised but with enough trust (knowing who will produce next block) that they can handle MasterCard/Visa volumes and process them incredibly rapidly. More importantly you will 'hopefully' be able to hold BitUSD or BitGold on a blockchain. So it's not a shitcoin, more like the - 'could change everything coin' so I guess actually you could call it 'the shit' coin :)

The first chain will have interest payments removed and be light on features but this is the idea for those that are interested. (Buying PTS now won't get you a stake in it, you'll have to wait a few weeks till it becomes tradeable.)

Quote
BitShares is a revolutionary new bank and exchange that could rival the value of the largest banks in the world such as JP Morgan and Bank of America in just a few years. How could this new upstart grow so quickly?  BitShares offers a bank account that earns 5% interest where funds can be transferred in minutes anywhere in the world with more privacy and security than a Swiss bank account.  Your account can never be frozen, your funds cannot be seized, and the bank can never face collapse due to loan defaults or fraud.  All of this is made possible without requiring any employees, lawyers, regulatory compliance, vaults, buildings, and other infrastructure required by traditional banks.  Unlike existing banks, you can hold your balance denominated in gold, silver, oil, or other commodities in additional to national currencies while earning 5% interest.  

In addition to acting as a bank, BitShares also serves as an exchange where currencies, commodities, and stock derivatives can be traded with most of the features used by professional traders including shorts and options.   The Bank takes a cut on every transaction and pays 100% of these transaction fees as dividends to the shareholders.  BitShares can achieve this feat using the same technology that makes Bitcoin possible, irrevocable decentralized automated consensus forming.    

You can keep track of progress and learn more here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=3.0


Yea right.  Every other day someone comes out with a coin that will "revolutionize everything".  I won't go through all of your points one by one, suffice to say though bitshares doesn't do any of the things you say it does.  Bitshares doesn't do anything, actually.  None of the "revolutionary" features are active.  They are all way overdue.  What you have is a lot of promises from a company that has failed to deliver on a single promise.

Yes there's been delays. Hence the low share price & volume. I believe BitShares XT & DPOS will be released in the next few weeks so that's one of the reasons why I believe there's a unique buying opportunity.

Waiting till something's released or all features are active is safer but not as lucrative.

You can see how development and testing is going here
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=3.0



Is there any point in donating to AGS in these last few days? Now that Bitshares X is no longer avialable, what do you think is the best venture:BitShares DNS, BitShares Lotto or BitShares Music.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: MisO69 on June 29, 2014, 09:56:46 PM
If you invest in Angelshares or are holding Protoshares (bitshares-pts) in your wallet at the time of snapshot, you get all 3. AGS and PTS do not get used up when you claim your new DAC. They are good for all future DACs from that company.



Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on June 29, 2014, 10:08:27 PM

Interesting... I should investigate more. Where is it better place to start https://bitsharestalk.org/ or https://bitshares.org/  ?

Both are good  :) I know it must be a lot too take in if you're new  ??? it's not like just understanding 1 new feature which is all we're often asked to do with a new coin. I can try help with a summary of their main activities -

BitShares X

Summary:  http://invictus-innovations.com/bitshares-as-dac-bank (http://invictus-innovations.com/bitshares-as-dac-bank)
View Progress: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=3.0

BitShares DNS

Video Summary  http://vimeo.com/user24356268/review/89219239/9a45e730ca  (http://vimeo.com/user24356268/review/89219239/9a45e730ca)
Check Progress   https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=50.0

BitShares Music

Let's talk Bitcoin interview gives a good summary (Starts at 31 minutes, or skip to 40 minutes for simple explanation.)

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/bitcoins-gravy-18-silver-bullets-and-the-5th-beatle

Quote
We will be the first full blown, feautured, public, in your face, we take credit card, paypal, crypto, buy your song,
look out iTunes, get out of my way Amazon, I am coming up the middle, I am coming right up the middle!

View Progress  https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=54.0

BitShares Gaming

Graphic Summary: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4597.0
View progress: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=55.0


Those are the main ones they're working on I think.

There's also Keyhotee which isn't a company as such, but very interesting

Video summary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pZaTdEtK-8

Quote
Keyhotee is a platform for taking back control of your digital life by combining your identity, your communications, and your finances into a single secure program. Keyhotee is under active development and currently provides an alternative to BitMessage

Some development going on in Lending & Insurance DAC's too...



  


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on June 29, 2014, 10:30:47 PM
Is there any point in donating to AGS in these last few days? Now that Bitshares X is no longer avialable, what do you think is the best venture:BitShares DNS, BitShares Lotto or BitShares Music.

Yes! You get circa 4.5 AGS for every PTS you donate at the moment. So if you want a long term stake, it's the best value in my opinion.

I think the most people's favourite is BitShares DNS, this whole new web domain system. http://vimeo.com/user24356268/review/89219239/9a45e730ca (http://vimeo.com/user24356268/review/89219239/9a45e730ca)

My favourite though, is BitShares Music, the guy they've got developing the main front centralised end, Eddie Corral is great, lots of experience & connections in the music industry and a lot of passion.

So you'll be able to buy shares in artists and songs and get a % of their sales. But for me the real potential is with record labels, who can use it as a way to give fans ownership of their favourite artists and give them a real incentive to go out and share and promote their music.
The best part is, that if it's offered by a record label, you can potentially buy shares in the whole revenue of artist, like all album sales, concerts, etc. That will be huge, imagine Hollywood Stock Exchange for real and for music, with fans buying shares in the next JayZ song or album. The future of this industry is massive. Some other guys like Counterparty are experimenting with selling shares in artists too but they just won't have the full service company that BitShares Music is developing with Eddie Corral.

The other one is BitShares Gaming, some people say it's the big sleeper. Lots of development going on.

Lotteries alone are a $250 Billion+ per annum industry but over half of the price you pay on a lottery ticket goes to government, ticket vendors and administration, plus they're generally restricted by borders. So there's a big opportunity for a well done blockchain, (Which is obviously borderless) based lottery system to undercut the industry there. 5 years from now I can see there being a weekly world lottery  :)

Big opportunities in a lot of areas so I'm definitely excited about the future DAC's. Of course the big question is whether BitShares will become market leader in some of these areas. IMO they're far ahead with having thought about these things, got the development funding and developing the technology etc., so they look the best placed out there at the moment.

Once DPOS is up and running which forms the base of their blockchains I think the pace of development is going to take a lot of people by surprise, so much stuff waiting in the wings right now.
 


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: brian_23452 on June 29, 2014, 10:33:36 PM

This shitcoin is still around???  Weren't they supposed to pay everyone their bitshares-x like....4 months ago or something but never did?  

To be honest, I was a bit frustrated with length of time they've taken and would have liked BitShares XT tradeable earlier. However it should be worth the wait.

By comparison, I have circa 50% in Bitcoin still, though I like Bitcoin, it is pretty centralised because you only have to get to two people to destroy confidence in the system at a crucial time.
The confirmation times & transactions per second are excruciatingly slow hence the need for Bitpay etc.
But the big one for me is that a lot of merchants let you pay in Bitcoin but transfer straight to $.

BitShares X if it eventually is able to do what it says on the tin, will have a system that's more decentralised but with enough trust (knowing who will produce next block) that they can handle MasterCard/Visa volumes and process them incredibly rapidly. More importantly you will 'hopefully' be able to hold BitUSD or BitGold on a blockchain. So it's not a shitcoin, more like the - 'could change everything coin' so I guess actually you could call it 'the shit' coin :)

The first chain will have interest payments removed and be light on features but this is the idea for those that are interested. (Buying PTS now won't get you a stake in it, you'll have to wait a few weeks till it becomes tradeable.)

Quote
BitShares is a revolutionary new bank and exchange that could rival the value of the largest banks in the world such as JP Morgan and Bank of America in just a few years. How could this new upstart grow so quickly?  BitShares offers a bank account that earns 5% interest where funds can be transferred in minutes anywhere in the world with more privacy and security than a Swiss bank account.  Your account can never be frozen, your funds cannot be seized, and the bank can never face collapse due to loan defaults or fraud.  All of this is made possible without requiring any employees, lawyers, regulatory compliance, vaults, buildings, and other infrastructure required by traditional banks.  Unlike existing banks, you can hold your balance denominated in gold, silver, oil, or other commodities in additional to national currencies while earning 5% interest.  

In addition to acting as a bank, BitShares also serves as an exchange where currencies, commodities, and stock derivatives can be traded with most of the features used by professional traders including shorts and options.   The Bank takes a cut on every transaction and pays 100% of these transaction fees as dividends to the shareholders.  BitShares can achieve this feat using the same technology that makes Bitcoin possible, irrevocable decentralized automated consensus forming.    

You can keep track of progress and learn more here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=3.0


Yea right.  Every other day someone comes out with a coin that will "revolutionize everything".  I won't go through all of your points one by one, suffice to say though bitshares doesn't do any of the things you say it does.  Bitshares doesn't do anything, actually.  None of the "revolutionary" features are active.  They are all way overdue.  What you have is a lot of promises from a company that has failed to deliver on a single promise.

Yes there's been delays. Hence the low share price & volume. I believe BitShares XT & DPOS will be released in the next few weeks so that's one of the reasons why I believe there's a unique buying opportunity.

Waiting till something's released or all features are active is safer but not as lucrative.

You can see how development and testing is going here
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=3.0



Considering the company has failed to deliver on even a single promise yet, I think it would be prudent to see them actually do *something* before throwing away money on this company.  My 2 cents.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: brekyrself on June 29, 2014, 11:58:03 PM
Brian_23452

What do you expect?  BTS is still under development and they have been nothing but open and honest compared to a lot of other developers.  State something besides they have missed a deadline as that's a moot point when you look at their github or even follow the progression of test nets.

In the last 6 months what significant progress has been made elsewhere?  BTC?  LTC?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: brian_23452 on June 30, 2014, 12:10:20 AM
Brian_23452

What do you expect?  BTS is still under development and they have been nothing but open and honest compared to a lot of other developers.  State something besides they have missed a deadline as that's a moot point when you look at their github or even follow the progression of test nets.

In the last 6 months what significant progress has been made elsewhere?  BTC?  LTC?

Well I don't think that anyone has claimed BTC or LTC will triple in price in the next 45 days, I think thats a key difference.  Another key difference is that both of the coins you mentioned are ALREADY fully functional and can be used for their intended purpose.  There that....see if you can come up with any other differences, I bet you can!

What do I expect?  I guess I just expect a company I invest in to do something....ANYTHING....before asking for money.  Why is it that everyone in cryptos from the devs on down expect to be paid FIRST and THEN develop a working product?  

Anyways, sorry, for a brief moment I thought we were looking for serious discussion on the merits of PTS.  Didn't realize you guys were just trying to drum up the price so you could empty out the bag your holding.  


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: nikola384 on June 30, 2014, 12:15:00 AM

This shitcoin is still around???  Weren't they supposed to pay everyone their bitshares-x like....4 months ago or something but never did?  

To be honest, I was a bit frustrated with length of time they've taken and would have liked BitShares XT tradeable earlier. However it should be worth the wait.

By comparison, I have circa 50% in Bitcoin still, though I like Bitcoin, it is pretty centralised because you only have to get to two people to destroy confidence in the system at a crucial time.
The confirmation times & transactions per second are excruciatingly slow hence the need for Bitpay etc.
But the big one for me is that a lot of merchants let you pay in Bitcoin but transfer straight to $.

BitShares X if it eventually is able to do what it says on the tin, will have a system that's more decentralised but with enough trust (knowing who will produce next block) that they can handle MasterCard/Visa volumes and process them incredibly rapidly. More importantly you will 'hopefully' be able to hold BitUSD or BitGold on a blockchain. So it's not a shitcoin, more like the - 'could change everything coin' so I guess actually you could call it 'the shit' coin :)

The first chain will have interest payments removed and be light on features but this is the idea for those that are interested. (Buying PTS now won't get you a stake in it, you'll have to wait a few weeks till it becomes tradeable.)

Quote
BitShares is a revolutionary new bank and exchange that could rival the value of the largest banks in the world such as JP Morgan and Bank of America in just a few years. How could this new upstart grow so quickly?  BitShares offers a bank account that earns 5% interest where funds can be transferred in minutes anywhere in the world with more privacy and security than a Swiss bank account.  Your account can never be frozen, your funds cannot be seized, and the bank can never face collapse due to loan defaults or fraud.  All of this is made possible without requiring any employees, lawyers, regulatory compliance, vaults, buildings, and other infrastructure required by traditional banks.  Unlike existing banks, you can hold your balance denominated in gold, silver, oil, or other commodities in additional to national currencies while earning 5% interest.  

In addition to acting as a bank, BitShares also serves as an exchange where currencies, commodities, and stock derivatives can be traded with most of the features used by professional traders including shorts and options.   The Bank takes a cut on every transaction and pays 100% of these transaction fees as dividends to the shareholders.  BitShares can achieve this feat using the same technology that makes Bitcoin possible, irrevocable decentralized automated consensus forming.    

You can keep track of progress and learn more here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=3.0


Yea right.  Every other day someone comes out with a coin that will "revolutionize everything".  I won't go through all of your points one by one, suffice to say though bitshares doesn't do any of the things you say it does.  Bitshares doesn't do anything, actually.  None of the "revolutionary" features are active.  They are all way overdue.  What you have is a lot of promises from a company that has failed to deliver on a single promise.

Yes there's been delays. Hence the low share price & volume. I believe BitShares XT & DPOS will be released in the next few weeks so that's one of the reasons why I believe there's a unique buying opportunity.

Waiting till something's released or all features are active is safer but not as lucrative.

You can see how development and testing is going here
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=3.0



Interesting... I should investigate more. Where is it better place to start https://bitsharestalk.org/ or https://bitshares.org/  ?

I would say start with https://bitshares.org/ the forum is full of info but is far from well organized. Progress is being made on that front too, but when I miss 2 weeks of being there I am lost again.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: brekyrself on June 30, 2014, 12:29:15 AM
Brian_23452

What do you expect?  BTS is still under development and they have been nothing but open and honest compared to a lot of other developers.  State something besides they have missed a deadline as that's a moot point when you look at their github or even follow the progression of test nets.

In the last 6 months what significant progress has been made elsewhere?  BTC?  LTC?

Well I don't think that anyone has claimed BTC or LTC will triple in price in the next 45 days, I think thats a key difference.  Another key difference is that both of the coins you mentioned are ALREADY fully functional and can be used for their intended purpose.  There that....see if you can come up with any other differences, I bet you can!

What do I expect?  I guess I just expect a company I invest in to do something....ANYTHING....before asking for money.  Why is it that everyone in cryptos from the devs on down expect to be paid FIRST and THEN develop a working product?  

Anyways, sorry, for a brief moment I thought we were looking for serious discussion on the merits of PTS.  Didn't realize you guys were just trying to drum up the price so you could empty out the bag your holding.  

I could care less about drumming up the price as indicated in the thread subject, but how can you say they have not come up with anything?  They produced PTS with it's original algorithm however more importantly look at their github and compile a working test bts wallet with ease.

Forget about investing for a minute and be happy a group of people are trying to take btc tech to the next level.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: brian_23452 on June 30, 2014, 01:44:02 AM
Brian_23452

What do you expect?  BTS is still under development and they have been nothing but open and honest compared to a lot of other developers.  State something besides they have missed a deadline as that's a moot point when you look at their github or even follow the progression of test nets.

In the last 6 months what significant progress has been made elsewhere?  BTC?  LTC?

Well I don't think that anyone has claimed BTC or LTC will triple in price in the next 45 days, I think thats a key difference.  Another key difference is that both of the coins you mentioned are ALREADY fully functional and can be used for their intended purpose.  There that....see if you can come up with any other differences, I bet you can!

What do I expect?  I guess I just expect a company I invest in to do something....ANYTHING....before asking for money.  Why is it that everyone in cryptos from the devs on down expect to be paid FIRST and THEN develop a working product?  

Anyways, sorry, for a brief moment I thought we were looking for serious discussion on the merits of PTS.  Didn't realize you guys were just trying to drum up the price so you could empty out the bag your holding.  

I could care less about drumming up the price as indicated in the thread subject, but how can you say they have not come up with anything?  They produced PTS with it's original algorithm however more importantly look at their github and compile a working test bts wallet with ease.

Really?  Subject title is "Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?".  First line of the OP is "Bitshares has been off the radar for a bit and I wanted to let you know that it is set to explode soon!!!!"  Last line of the OP is "All in all I think it is the perfect time to buy...".  Everything in between is about how awesome an investment this is, how it is going to "explode" in price.  And you are seriously going to claim you aren't trying to pump up the price? 

Forget about investing for a minute and be happy a group of people are trying to take btc tech to the next level.

I would love to forget about investing for a moment.  But I can't, because virtually everything in this entire thread is you guys (guys?  or maybe the same guy?) posting about buy buy buy this company. 

A cursory review of your post history shows that you two, every couple of weeks post the same shit about how this shitcoin is "set to explode buy buy buy!!!!! this time we mean it guys!!!!!".    Move along folks, nothing to see here, just some bagholders trying to pump their shitcoin so they can dump it.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: brekyrself on June 30, 2014, 02:21:10 AM
Brian_23452

What do you expect?  BTS is still under development and they have been nothing but open and honest compared to a lot of other developers.  State something besides they have missed a deadline as that's a moot point when you look at their github or even follow the progression of test nets.

In the last 6 months what significant progress has been made elsewhere?  BTC?  LTC?

Well I don't think that anyone has claimed BTC or LTC will triple in price in the next 45 days, I think thats a key difference.  Another key difference is that both of the coins you mentioned are ALREADY fully functional and can be used for their intended purpose.  There that....see if you can come up with any other differences, I bet you can!

What do I expect?  I guess I just expect a company I invest in to do something....ANYTHING....before asking for money.  Why is it that everyone in cryptos from the devs on down expect to be paid FIRST and THEN develop a working product?  

Anyways, sorry, for a brief moment I thought we were looking for serious discussion on the merits of PTS.  Didn't realize you guys were just trying to drum up the price so you could empty out the bag your holding.  

I could care less about drumming up the price as indicated in the thread subject, but how can you say they have not come up with anything?  They produced PTS with it's original algorithm however more importantly look at their github and compile a working test bts wallet with ease.

Really?  Subject title is "Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?".  First line of the OP is "Bitshares has been off the radar for a bit and I wanted to let you know that it is set to explode soon!!!!"  Last line of the OP is "All in all I think it is the perfect time to buy...".  Everything in between is about how awesome an investment this is, how it is going to "explode" in price.  And you are seriously going to claim you aren't trying to pump up the price? 

Forget about investing for a minute and be happy a group of people are trying to take btc tech to the next level.

I would love to forget about investing for a moment.  But I can't, because virtually everything in this entire thread is you guys (guys?  or maybe the same guy?) posting about buy buy buy this company. 

A cursory review of your post history shows that you two, every couple of weeks post the same shit about how this shitcoin is "set to explode buy buy buy!!!!! this time we mean it guys!!!!!".    Move along folks, nothing to see here, just some bagholders trying to pump their shitcoin so they can dump it.

More like trying to build awareness so people become aware of BTS and it has a successful launch.  Too many non innovative cryptos clog all the threads and leave the positive ones buried.  Its funny how you call PTS or BTS a "shitcoin" yet have no technological reason, or any reasons for that matter to back up your opinion.

Open your eyes and learn about due diligence,  www.bitsharestalk.org


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on June 30, 2014, 03:23:53 AM

A cursory review of your post history shows that you two, every couple of weeks post the same shit about how this shitcoin is "set to explode buy buy buy!!!!! this time we mean it guys!!!

You're lying about my posting history!

This week (Jun 24th) is the first time I've posted on Bitcointalk since Feb 12th. This week is also the first time I've ever promoted BitShares. Please anyone feel free to check my posting history, this week is the first time I've ever started a thread promoting a coin/company in the entire time I've been a Bitcointalk member.  

(I joined Bitcointalk early last year and I was a huge Bitcoin fanboy & did very well from it. However once I understood the centralisation of mining problem, I started to become concerned.

There was too much power in the pools, yet nobody was panicking...

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/bigDean636/Lulz/darwinawards.jpg

I tried to raise awareness about dealing with the issue the last time Ghash.io got over 45%. I was even in contact with BitPay and trying to put together a programme where the companies like them who had the most to lose if Bitcoin crashed could come together and work on and fund a solution to the problem, maybe at least an incentive programme for P2P mining pools.

However it became clear that Bitcoin was unable to deal with the mining issue. That's when I first started looking at alt-coins and trying to see who had best solved the problem. That brought me to NXT. So around Feb 13th I stopped posting here and tried to support the NXT community but shortly after that I discovered Daniel Larimer and BitShares and I've been on their forums ever since.

Even though we have over 5000 forum members, and BitShares is very well know, as it was the last 25 days of BitShares-AGS, I thought it would be a good idea to come out and promote and educate people who were interested in BitShares but hadn't looked into yet.
I started this topic https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=664298.msg7491392#msg7491392 that didn't generate too much interest.
So then I started this one, to be a bit more attention grabbing.)

As for your other points...

Quote
Well I don't think that anyone has claimed BTC or LTC will triple in price in the next 45 days, I think thats a key difference.  Another key difference is that both of the coins you mentioned are ALREADY fully functional and can be used for their intended purpose.  There that....see if you can come up with any other differences, I bet you can!

What do I expect?  I guess I just expect a company I invest in to do something....ANYTHING....before asking for money.  Why is it that everyone in cryptos from the devs on down expect to be paid FIRST and THEN develop a working product?  

I think those are valid points. Counterparty for example delivered a basic working system with very little funding they also used proof of burn so didn't even benefit from donations meanwhile BitShares has got thousands of BTC but haven't delivered anything yet, so I can see where you're coming from.

Also the fact that I'm speculating the price will 2X+ in the next 30-45 days, well that's a big claim. So of course people like you should be giving me some heat. I think that's fine.

(Other: I have XCP, from POB stage, but economically, shareholders getting shares in a company based on how much money they throw in a bonfire, (Which is what POB was) is pretty crazy and I think they're going to run into medium term funding & development difficulties like Bitcoin. So I prefer the BitShares funding model.)

I hope other people will go to the website and forum and look at the development and draw their own conclusions. They're very close to being released and if you haven't bought before the day they are you're going to be like...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MLUOeaZ6JCo/T2it5qHL_dI/AAAAAAAABi0/K2jUveJpEBc/s1600/missing+the+boat.JPG  


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: brian_23452 on June 30, 2014, 04:10:05 AM

A cursory review of your post history shows that you two, every couple of weeks post the same shit about how this shitcoin is "set to explode buy buy buy!!!!! this time we mean it guys!!!

You're lying about my posting history!

Wow, way to ignore everything I said proving all you do is try to pump your shitcoin.  If you weren't so defensive, you would notice I quoted HIM, not you.  And if you checked his post history you would see that he does in fact pump this shitcoin every few weeks. 
Don't feel bad, he got confused too where he said "I could care less about drumming up the price as indicated in the thread subject...." as if he wrote the subject, not you.  It's almost as if you are working together.....




Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on June 30, 2014, 11:22:46 AM

A cursory review of your post history shows that you two, every couple of weeks post the same shit about how this shitcoin is "set to explode buy buy buy!!!!! this time we mean it guys!!!

You're lying about my posting history!

Wow, way to ignore everything I said proving all you do is try to pump your shitcoin.  If you weren't so defensive, you would notice I quoted HIM, not you.  And if you checked his post history you would see that he does in fact pump this shitcoin every few weeks.  
Don't feel bad, he got confused too where he said "I could care less about drumming up the price as indicated in the thread subject...." as if he wrote the subject, not you.  It's almost as if you are working together.....




Sorry my first language is English, didn't realise you were a foreigner.

Quote
Shows that you two, every couple of weeks, post the same shit...

In English, that sentence states that I do this every couple of weeks. Maybe you will have more luck trolling in your first language.


As for him, he seems to be a long term BitShares specific supporter and promoter, I'm glad he's taken the time to add to this thread. I even value your input, though not as much... :) - As I said given the delays, as well as 'pumpy' nature of my personal price speculation thread, some of your points aren't without merit.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: indiemax on June 30, 2014, 11:49:19 AM

This shitcoin is still around???  Weren't they supposed to pay everyone their bitshares-x like....4 months ago or something but never did?  

To be honest, I was a bit frustrated with length of time they've taken and would have liked BitShares XT tradeable earlier. However it should be worth the wait.

By comparison, I have circa 50% in Bitcoin still, though I like Bitcoin, it is pretty centralised because you only have to get to two people to destroy confidence in the system at a crucial time.
The confirmation times & transactions per second are excruciatingly slow hence the need for Bitpay etc.
But the big one for me is that a lot of merchants let you pay in Bitcoin but transfer straight to $.

BitShares X if it eventually is able to do what it says on the tin, will have a system that's more decentralised but with enough trust (knowing who will produce next block) that they can handle MasterCard/Visa volumes and process them incredibly rapidly. More importantly you will 'hopefully' be able to hold BitUSD or BitGold on a blockchain. So it's not a shitcoin, more like the - 'could change everything coin' so I guess actually you could call it 'the shit' coin :)

The first chain will have interest payments removed and be light on features but this is the idea for those that are interested. (Buying PTS now won't get you a stake in it, you'll have to wait a few weeks till it becomes tradeable.)

Quote
BitShares is a revolutionary new bank and exchange that could rival the value of the largest banks in the world such as JP Morgan and Bank of America in just a few years. How could this new upstart grow so quickly?  BitShares offers a bank account that earns 5% interest where funds can be transferred in minutes anywhere in the world with more privacy and security than a Swiss bank account.  Your account can never be frozen, your funds cannot be seized, and the bank can never face collapse due to loan defaults or fraud.  All of this is made possible without requiring any employees, lawyers, regulatory compliance, vaults, buildings, and other infrastructure required by traditional banks.  Unlike existing banks, you can hold your balance denominated in gold, silver, oil, or other commodities in additional to national currencies while earning 5% interest.  

In addition to acting as a bank, BitShares also serves as an exchange where currencies, commodities, and stock derivatives can be traded with most of the features used by professional traders including shorts and options.   The Bank takes a cut on every transaction and pays 100% of these transaction fees as dividends to the shareholders.  BitShares can achieve this feat using the same technology that makes Bitcoin possible, irrevocable decentralized automated consensus forming.    

You can keep track of progress and learn more here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=3.0


Yea right.  Every other day someone comes out with a coin that will "revolutionize everything".  I won't go through all of your points one by one, suffice to say though bitshares doesn't do any of the things you say it does.  Bitshares doesn't do anything, actually.  None of the "revolutionary" features are active.  They are all way overdue.  What you have is a lot of promises from a company that has failed to deliver on a single promise.

looks like a bag holder thread unfortunately


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: jshow5555 on June 30, 2014, 07:53:14 PM

I have a question about this DNS project of bitshares – how can they sell something that is not theirs. I know at the end of the day godaddy and the rest do the same, but they have a complex network that makes it almost look legit.
And in this project of theirs, Bitshares will sell domains that that do not belong to them and  to make matters worse the domains will not even be accessible by any browser.

Weird world.



Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on June 30, 2014, 09:17:31 PM

I have a question about this DNS project of bitshares – how can they sell something that is not theirs. I know at the end of the day godaddy and the rest do the same, but they have a complex network that makes it almost look legit.
And in this project of theirs, Bitshares will sell domains that that do not belong to them and  to make matters worse the domains will not even be accessible by any browser.

Weird world.



Hi jshow5555, I'm not the most technical person but I believe The DNS will exist on a BitShares blockchain, so shareholders in BitShares-DNS are free to sell domain names that exist/created on it.

The advantages are -

- It's a decentralised top level domain and alternative to the traditional DNS system. So no central entity controls it. This makes your domain name resistant to being seized or compromised and you can only lose control when you choose to share your private key.

- In traditional DNS you would need to trust a certificate authority to communicate securely. This third party involvement opens you up to attackers who can spy on your communications. BitShares DNS addresses this issue by using blockchain technology much like what is used in Bitcoin.

- They've also got a new auctioning system that should mitigate the problem of domain name squatting.

-  It helps protect the values of the web by giving power back to the people.

The disadvantages are

I think you will need a 1-click browser extension install to access it. 

Quote
This system can exist in parallel with current systems, and software will be made available to use it.  Eventually once it's become popular enough the major browser vendors may provide integration with this system by default, but it will work fine without any support from existing DNS "authorities.

I hope that helps answer your question a bit, as I said I'm not very technical and BitShares DNS is the one upcoming DAC I haven't really been paying attention to.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: sfinder on June 30, 2014, 10:23:11 PM
there are going to be 5 snapshot on PTS in the next couple weeks  and PTS price will go to the moon due to AGS donation is ending in 18 days


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: shenjie on June 30, 2014, 10:49:38 PM
so many snapshots!
are you dev or Photographer?
 ;D


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: MisO69 on July 01, 2014, 12:34:57 AM
Joke all you guys want, when these DACS come out they will set a new precedent for alt coins. I see a very bright future for these types of innovations.

Lottoshares is another one that had a snapshot just recently. The code is in testing now and should be released soon.



Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: dr_chen on July 01, 2014, 02:54:23 AM
there are going to be 5 snapshot on PTS in the next couple weeks  and PTS price will go to the moon due to AGS donation is ending in 18 days

PTS is  substantially undervalued.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: megashira1 on July 01, 2014, 04:13:26 AM
What's the difference between buying in with PTS or AGS?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: Fernandez on July 01, 2014, 08:31:18 AM
there are going to be 5 snapshot on PTS in the next couple weeks  and PTS price will go to the moon due to AGS donation is ending in 18 days

Sadly none of these will get you any Bitshares (the main one) as it has already been quietly distributed.

Keep pumping to dump your PTS on unsuspecting newcomers.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: Fernandez on July 01, 2014, 08:33:09 AM

This shitcoin is still around???  Weren't they supposed to pay everyone their bitshares-x like....4 months ago or something but never did?  

To be honest, I was a bit frustrated with length of time they've taken and would have liked BitShares XT tradeable earlier. However it should be worth the wait.

By comparison, I have circa 50% in Bitcoin still, though I like Bitcoin, it is pretty centralised because you only have to get to two people to destroy confidence in the system at a crucial time.
The confirmation times & transactions per second are excruciatingly slow hence the need for Bitpay etc.
But the big one for me is that a lot of merchants let you pay in Bitcoin but transfer straight to $.

BitShares X if it eventually is able to do what it says on the tin, will have a system that's more decentralised but with enough trust (knowing who will produce next block) that they can handle MasterCard/Visa volumes and process them incredibly rapidly. More importantly you will 'hopefully' be able to hold BitUSD or BitGold on a blockchain. So it's not a shitcoin, more like the - 'could change everything coin' so I guess actually you could call it 'the shit' coin :)

The first chain will have interest payments removed and be light on features but this is the idea for those that are interested. (Buying PTS now won't get you a stake in it, you'll have to wait a few weeks till it becomes tradeable.)

Quote
BitShares is a revolutionary new bank and exchange that could rival the value of the largest banks in the world such as JP Morgan and Bank of America in just a few years. How could this new upstart grow so quickly?  BitShares offers a bank account that earns 5% interest where funds can be transferred in minutes anywhere in the world with more privacy and security than a Swiss bank account.  Your account can never be frozen, your funds cannot be seized, and the bank can never face collapse due to loan defaults or fraud.  All of this is made possible without requiring any employees, lawyers, regulatory compliance, vaults, buildings, and other infrastructure required by traditional banks.  Unlike existing banks, you can hold your balance denominated in gold, silver, oil, or other commodities in additional to national currencies while earning 5% interest.  

In addition to acting as a bank, BitShares also serves as an exchange where currencies, commodities, and stock derivatives can be traded with most of the features used by professional traders including shorts and options.   The Bank takes a cut on every transaction and pays 100% of these transaction fees as dividends to the shareholders.  BitShares can achieve this feat using the same technology that makes Bitcoin possible, irrevocable decentralized automated consensus forming.    

You can keep track of progress and learn more here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=3.0


Yea right.  Every other day someone comes out with a coin that will "revolutionize everything".  I won't go through all of your points one by one, suffice to say though bitshares doesn't do any of the things you say it does.  Bitshares doesn't do anything, actually.  None of the "revolutionary" features are active.  They are all way overdue.  What you have is a lot of promises from a company that has failed to deliver on a single promise.

Yes there's been delays. Hence the low share price & volume. I believe BitShares XT & DPOS will be released in the next few weeks so that's one of the reasons why I believe there's a unique buying opportunity.

Waiting till something's released or all features are active is safer but not as lucrative.

You can see how development and testing is going here
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=3.0



You won't be getting any of those revolutionary bank or exchanges tokens with PTS. Why even speak of that in a PTS thread.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: delulo on July 01, 2014, 11:04:15 AM
All the drama aside...  I think the OP named the thread what it is to get the attention of people. It worked but it sounds a bit suspicious... Don't take it too serious guys!

All speculation / investment considerations aside... There are many innovative projects in the crypto space (like counterparty, Ethereum, NXT etc.), many hyped non- innovative marketing driven shitcoins, and many scams. I don't know how big the market demand will be and whether everything the Bitshares guys are doing will work.
But what I know is that Invictus and Bitshares is an honest and innovative endeavor! And in my Opinion bitshares is among the most interesting / innovative projects (it certainly is not just another coin, it is based on a different perspective on how to make use the the innovation introduced by Bitcoin) and the forum is intellectually appealing which makes it a good place to discuss things. I made the experience that BTT is not as open minded... Have a look https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=5.0

Form your own opinion on the uncertainties I mentioned above!! No project has no disadvantages!!!! But don't call it a scam. Consider that they are out there with their real identities. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5370.msg71622#msg71622 ... It is a group of about 15 (?) devs working (see github) all with their public identities out there. It is just not likely to be a scam...

And we all agree that missing deadlines and promises sucks but I guess that is the down side of taking a new and therefore innovative but risky (many unforeseen obstacles) path. The bitshares guys did not do a good job communicating this! It was too open. They said what they actually thought themselves at every moment (release in february for example) before they could be sure themselves...


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: megashira1 on July 01, 2014, 01:42:55 PM
there are going to be 5 snapshot on PTS in the next couple weeks  and PTS price will go to the moon due to AGS donation is ending in 18 days

Sadly none of these will get you any Bitshares (the main one) as it has already been quietly distributed.

Keep pumping to dump your PTS on unsuspecting newcomers.

Expand?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 01, 2014, 04:32:42 PM

This shitcoin is still around???  Weren't they supposed to pay everyone their bitshares-x like....4 months ago or something but never did?  

To be honest, I was a bit frustrated with length of time they've taken and would have liked BitShares XT tradeable earlier. However it should be worth the wait.

By comparison, I have circa 50% in Bitcoin still, though I like Bitcoin, it is pretty centralised because you only have to get to two people to destroy confidence in the system at a crucial time.
The confirmation times & transactions per second are excruciatingly slow hence the need for Bitpay etc.
But the big one for me is that a lot of merchants let you pay in Bitcoin but transfer straight to $.

BitShares X if it eventually is able to do what it says on the tin, will have a system that's more decentralised but with enough trust (knowing who will produce next block) that they can handle MasterCard/Visa volumes and process them incredibly rapidly. More importantly you will 'hopefully' be able to hold BitUSD or BitGold on a blockchain. So it's not a shitcoin, more like the - 'could change everything coin' so I guess actually you could call it 'the shit' coin :)

The first chain will have interest payments removed and be light on features but this is the idea for those that are interested. (Buying PTS now won't get you a stake in it, you'll have to wait a few weeks till it becomes tradeable.)

Quote
BitShares is a revolutionary new bank and exchange that could rival the value of the largest banks in the world such as JP Morgan and Bank of America in just a few years. How could this new upstart grow so quickly?  BitShares offers a bank account that earns 5% interest where funds can be transferred in minutes anywhere in the world with more privacy and security than a Swiss bank account.  Your account can never be frozen, your funds cannot be seized, and the bank can never face collapse due to loan defaults or fraud.  All of this is made possible without requiring any employees, lawyers, regulatory compliance, vaults, buildings, and other infrastructure required by traditional banks.  Unlike existing banks, you can hold your balance denominated in gold, silver, oil, or other commodities in additional to national currencies while earning 5% interest.  

In addition to acting as a bank, BitShares also serves as an exchange where currencies, commodities, and stock derivatives can be traded with most of the features used by professional traders including shorts and options.   The Bank takes a cut on every transaction and pays 100% of these transaction fees as dividends to the shareholders.  BitShares can achieve this feat using the same technology that makes Bitcoin possible, irrevocable decentralized automated consensus forming.    

You can keep track of progress and learn more here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=3.0


Yea right.  Every other day someone comes out with a coin that will "revolutionize everything".  I won't go through all of your points one by one, suffice to say though bitshares doesn't do any of the things you say it does.  Bitshares doesn't do anything, actually.  None of the "revolutionary" features are active.  They are all way overdue.  What you have is a lot of promises from a company that has failed to deliver on a single promise.

Yes there's been delays. Hence the low share price & volume. I believe BitShares XT & DPOS will be released in the next few weeks so that's one of the reasons why I believe there's a unique buying opportunity.

Waiting till something's released or all features are active is safer but not as lucrative.

You can see how development and testing is going here
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=3.0



You won't be getting any of those revolutionary bank or exchanges tokens with PTS. Why even speak of that in a PTS thread.

It's a fair point, though in the part you quoted a poster commented on BitShares X, so I responded to him as well as informed thread viewers what BitShares X was, and included the clear caveat -

Quote
(Buying PTS now won't get you a stake in it, you'll have to wait a few weeks till it becomes tradeable.)

Imo it is pretty relevant to the future BitShare-PTS price, because at the moment the valuation of PTS reflects that of a company that has some great DAC ideas & development but hasn't released much. If BitShares XT is released soon (while already allocated on 28/2/14) will significantly change the perception of BitShares and increase it's profile imo.  

Also to gauge the impact of future DAC's on PTS price, I think it was relevant to look at the impact BitShares X had, which was very large considering it was just 1 DAC from a new, unproven company & also that much of the demand for it was channelled via BitShares-AGS (Which is closing in 17 days).

But I take it on board. I would like to be able to discuss all aspects of Bitshares in this thread but I will try to make especially clear that BitShares X has already been allocated/snap-shotted.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 01, 2014, 05:15:25 PM
there are going to be 5 snapshot on PTS in the next couple weeks  and PTS price will go to the moon due to AGS donation is ending in 18 days

Sadly none of these will get you any Bitshares (the main one) as it has already been quietly distributed.

Keep pumping to dump your PTS on unsuspecting newcomers.

Expand?


When he says BitShares he is referring to BitShares X, the Bank & Exchange DAC. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=12.0
I actually agree with him that it has the potential to be the biggest.

That was allocated as I've mention many times on 28/02/2014. However it was done anything but quietly  :) They had up to that stage, probably even now, one of the longest, most public IPO's. It was advertised from November 2013 and only allocated at the end of Feb 2014.  If you look at http://www1.agsexplorer.com/ and zoom into the last few weeks of February you can see that just via BitShares AGS it was generating circa 150 BTC in investment a day + the equivalent value in BitShares-PTS donations. Also for example, The BitShares forum has over 5000 members. Counterparty & Mastercoin only have 600+ and 300+, respectively by comparison. (I own a decent amount of XCP though, but very little MSC.)

But of course the poster is free to offer his perspective. As for his second assertion

Quote
Keep pumping to dump your PTS on unsuspecting newcomers.

I think you might be able to pump/hype some low market CAP crypto-currency via a thread I guess. But BitShares-PTS is a $7 Million CAP and though I think it's a tightly wound spring, the only thing that will move the price in any meaningful way is significant BitShares progress/releases imo.  You can look at it's price history here, it's probably one of the most stable, least volatile/pumpable out there, for the last 3 months, https://coinmarketcap.com/pts_90.html

But of course with some posters it's catch 22  :) They either think you're 'pumping' something too much or if they miss it, they will feel you didn't do enough promoting and are therefore 'quietly distributing' it. But of course I do concede that while the title of thread will generate more interest it is also asking for some heat.  
 
But the last time I can remember being this excited and confident about something was actually Bitcoin, I was and still am a big gold bug. I used to post actively on a precious metals forum that has an absolutely great bunch of guys, but as I'm sure you're aware they can be pretty sceptical and negative about Bitcoin, 'It's not 'real' money  :) ' but I was so confident and excited I started this thread on 19/03/2013 http://www.pmbug.com/forum/f4/bitcoin-discussion-2207/

My first post was related to Cyprus bank confiscations -

Quote
I think regardless of your views on BC's as an alternative currency, it's pretty clear that people in southern Europe are realizing their bank deposits are at risk in a big way. So I believe the likelihood of Southern Europeans moving 600 million dollars in BC's this month > than the likelihood of a major event happening that destroys the price of BC's this month.

In the next post in the same thread I wrote,

Quote
I ask myself in this world with trillions of dollars of bank deposits under threat how much money could I see moving into a digital currency that is in principal decentralized, anonymous, and can't be artificially inflated beyond it's current construct. I can easily see more than 10 billion dollars going in there this year. Which would mean the price could easily increase 10-15 fold.

Both those predictions that I was confident enough to put about Bitcoin on a precious metals forum, - That Cyprus confiscations would be great for Bitcoin and that $10 Billion could go into Bitcoin into 2013 turned out to be pretty good.

So I while the pumpy nature of a price speculation thread will generate some heat, you can look at my post history, and see this is the first time I've started a thread promoting something and it's only because I'm as confident and excited about BitShares now as I was about Bitcoin in March 2013.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: mozurt on July 01, 2014, 05:25:03 PM
Will AGS eventually be traded on one of the exchanges?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 01, 2014, 05:41:52 PM
Will AGS eventually be traded on one of the exchanges?

No, but it will get you a share in future DAC's as long as BitShares are creating DAC's &/or other developers making DAC's want to honour it.  


I also got this question via private message

Quote
What's the difference if I invest via the AGS or PTS?

The main difference is that PTS is liquid.

This means you can buy & sell it on an exchange like BTER or Crypsty.

The advantage is if you buy PTS, but decide you don't like it or you don't have faith in BitShares you can always sell it.
Or maybe if you just like 1/2 of the upcoming DAC's you can buy PTS, wait for the shares in those companies to be allocated and then sell your PTS afterwards. (Though the PTS price will probably be lower just after, ex-dividend like a normal company share.)

AGS on the other hand (which is only available for the next 17 days) is 'illiquid'
This means that your AGS will get you shares in all the future DAC's that are allocated after your donation but you can never sell your AGS, only the shares in the DAC's you are allocated via AGS when they become tradeable.

So which is better?

Well there will be 2 000 000 PTS in total and there will be 2 000 000 AGS creating a total of 4 Million.

Based on the averages at the moment, if you donated PTS to AGS or BTC to AGS today you would probably get 4-5X more AGS than the equivalent amount of $ would buy you of PTS. http://www1.agsexplorer.com/ (Though I expect that ratio to tighten up in the last few days of AGS donations.)

So personally, because I like BitShares and have confidence in it, nearly all my BitShares investment, 90% plus has been done via AGS because I think's it's better value, despite it being illiquid.

The other 10% is in PTS, but part of that is for a two month trade as I think we're going to see some developments soon and AGS closing means new demand for BitShares will have to flow through PTS.

So long term BitShares-AGS, I think a small investment here could be very rewarding.  
Short term I think there's a little PTS play here too as highlighted in the title.

Though this is predicated on the idea that there will be some significant developments soon, but clearly I'm a BitShares fan and supporter, I also have a two month trade predicated on the future price of PTS as indicated above. So please take the time to look at it, evaluate for yourself and draw your own conclusions.

https://bitsharestalk.org/
http://bitshares.org/  

If you are interested but sceptical, it may be a good to idea to wait till they release something that you & others you respect think is investment worthy. I suspect as long as you are aware and paying attention, then you should still be able to get in at a reasonable price even if you wait, then at least you have less of a risk as some people are suggesting of being exposed to some kind of pump/bagholder scenario.  


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: Korean on July 01, 2014, 06:12:46 PM
How are you basing your ROI calculations on? How do these DAC generate the profit for you?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: brian_23452 on July 01, 2014, 06:44:31 PM
How are you basing your ROI calculations on? How do these DAC generate the profit for you?

They don't.  But the bags are getting sooooooo heavy.......


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 01, 2014, 07:58:37 PM
How are you basing your ROI calculations on? How do these DAC generate the profit for you?

Quote
How do these DAC generate the profit for you?

Most alt-coins at the moment are unprofitable, (BitCoin via inflation is effectively charging you $100 per $1000 of Bitcoin you own a year, paid to miners to process transactions and secure the network)

BitShares DAC's by contrast are designed not only to not have that problem but also to offer a product/service that makes them profitable and valuable as individual companies in their own right.

1. Profits from revenues generated from the product/service will either be distributed to shareholders as dividends or destroyed (thereby having the same effect by increasing your % stake.)

Some examples I can think of  -

BitSharesDNS - Will use an auction system to sell domain names, some of proceeds will be given to shareholders.
BitShares Lottery - A % from each lottery ticket will be given to shareholders.
BitShares XT (Already allocated 28/02/14, buying PTS now won't get you a stake in it) -  transaction fees, inactivity fees, and margin-call fees and the profits that result from charging these fees are paid to the shareholders.


2. The product/service will generally only be accessible for shares in the DAC, therefore the more popular the DAC becomes and the more people use it the more demand there will be for the shares.

Quote
How are you basing your ROI calculations on?

Evaluating ROI now with any accuracy is very hard, but for my personal view, it's clearly much higher than the current PTS price reflects.

Considering the amount of BTC donated in the last days of Bithares X allocation, as well as the drop in PTS price after the snapshot date, I think I concluded the market was already valuing that undelivered DAC from an unproven company at >$15 million+ at the time.

Though not released or linked to BitShares in any way, MaidSafeCoin is a DAC of sorts and even with a very unclear profit strategy, they have a current valuation of circa $7 million.

Beyond that, I don't have any indicators for gauging how the market might value some upcoming BitShares DAC's. It's a brand new area  but personally I believe blockchain based businesses will distrupt a lot of industries in a major way.  (Also remember that for BitShares X a lot of the demand went through BitShares AGS and in 17 days that all new demand will go to BitShares PTS.)  

I'm happy to try answer any questions I can, but I am a BitShares supporter and investor and have an interest in their success, please take the time to look at it, evaluate for yourself and draw your own conclusions.

https://bitsharestalk.org/
http://bitshares.org/  


I will also say again - If you are interested but sceptical, it may be a good to idea to wait till they release something that you & others you respect think is investment worthy. I suspect as long as you are aware and paying attention, then you should still be able to get in at a reasonable price even if you wait, then at least you have less of a risk as some people are suggesting of being exposed to some kind of pump/bagholder scenario.  


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 02, 2014, 11:20:46 AM
'Behind the scenes with BitShares' - 2 min video they released this week.

http://vimeo.com/m/98988328



Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: nikola384 on July 02, 2014, 09:03:47 PM

While I see convincing arguments why I should buy PTS, the price is going down  ;)
So I can load up for cheap! Great news for me!




Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 04, 2014, 04:24:59 PM
How are you basing your ROI calculations on? How do these DAC generate the profit for you?

They don't.  But the bags are getting sooooooo heavy.......

Brian have you done any research into BitShares? I don't think you have. Or you would understand why pts is extremely undervalued and this is a good entry point for investing in next generation blockchain technology. Bitshares-PTS  (http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/BitShares_PTS) is a simple clone of bitcoin. Its specs are not where it gets its value from. The value of PTS comes from the fact that it gives you a share of future distributed autonomous companies that are being launched by Invictus Innovation and other developers using the bitshares_toolkit (https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares_toolkit). I encourage you to check out the alfa testing (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5381.0) that is going on currently.

Some major enhancements to the blockchain technology have already been implemented that make it much better than any other crypto-currnency/crypto-equity platforms to date

The BitShares platform uses Delegated Proof of Stake (http://bitshares.org/delegated-proof-of-stake/), which allows for greater, more effiecient security and transaction processing than bitcoin at a fraction of the cost. Blocks are produced every 15 seconds and *full* confirmation is around 12 minutes. If exchanges such as bter and mintpal uses the same confirmation metric as they currently use for bitcoin then your funds would be confirmed by the exchanges in 2 minutes and 6 minutes respectively. Won't that be great for arbitrage! Additionally, the testing network has sustained transaction volume of 50 - 100 transactions per second already. Bitcoin's 7 tps isnt even comparable.

Another key enhancement in the BitShares platform is  TITAN  (http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/TITAN) (Transfer Invisibly to any Name). The BitShares blockchain allows users to register names in the blockchain. These names have an associated public key that can be used to derive child keys for the purpose of stealth addresses. Now you can send directly to names instead of cryptographic public keys and all transactions are inherently anonymous. There is no need for mixing, or master nodes.

Additionally, the current network also allows for user issued assets.

There has been a lot of innovation within the BitShares ecosystem as the developer have laid down the groundwork for optimized decentralized transaction processing which will in turn allow for the creation of better distributed autonomous companies. From what I know DNS and Bitshares Bank will be ready for testing very soon. Much of the delay for the DAC software has been due to the teams focus on creating a blockchain that renders all other blockchains obsolete. I encourage you to contribute to the testing and discussion on the forum. Bashing a project you have little information on is not constructive and there is a lot of money to be made in investing in this innovation.

For more information please visit:
  • Website (http://bitshares.org/)
  • Forum (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php)
  • Wiki (http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Main_Page)


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: brian_23452 on July 04, 2014, 11:10:41 PM
How are you basing your ROI calculations on? How do these DAC generate the profit for you?

They don't.  But the bags are getting sooooooo heavy.......

Brian have you done any research into BitShares? I don't think you have. Or you would understand why pts is extremely undervalued and this is a good entry point for investing in next generation blockchain technology. Bitshares-PTS  (http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/BitShares_PTS) is a simple clone of bitcoin. Its specs are not where it gets its value from. The value of PTS comes from the fact that it gives you a share of future distributed autonomous companies that are being launched by Invictus Innovation and other developers using the bitshares_toolkit (https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares_toolkit). I encourage you to check out the alfa testing (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5381.0) that is going on currently.

None of those "distributed autonomous companies" exist.  PTS gives you stake in non existent companies, hence its non existent value.  I wonder, can I buy these companies that don't exist yet, with dollars that don't exist yet?  I'm guessing that while they expect you to take their word that you will eventually get something, they don't take IOUs but only hard cash.  Funny how these scams always work the same way.

Some major enhancements to the blockchain technology have already been implemented that make it much better than any other crypto-currnency/crypto-equity platforms to date...

Yea sure.  Something like 400 altcoins exist and they all promise to be "major enhancements to blockchain technology".  Maybe they are and maybe they aren't but no one cares because you can't actually buy anything with them. 

The BitShares platform uses Delegated Proof of Stake (http://bitshares.org/delegated-proof-of-stake/), which allows for greater, more effiecient security and transaction processing than bitcoin at a fraction of the cost. Blocks are produced every 15 seconds and *full* confirmation is around 12 minutes.

Except the devs fucked up the difficulty re targeting so no one is mining it.  So transactions now take literally DAYS to confirm, not seconds or minutes.  Your first clue that they don't care should have been when they never fixed this.
 
Listen, I do appreciate PTS for what it was.  For a brief window of about 3 or 4  weeks, it was *immensely* profitable to mine.  I probably made more BTC in that one month mining PTS than I have made mining everything else put together before and since.  But come on that's all it ever was, a quick buck for the devs that the rest of us could ride along for.  When they took the snapshot and then never released the DAC that should have finally clarified for you that there was no substance behind the hype.  But then in that 3 day window when the difficulty was normalized, there people like you were again, still buying. 

So I get it, I get that you bought into the hype and bought these coins, and I appreciate that.  But the time to get out was months ago, back when you still had a chance of convincing people that these DACs were real.  Not now, after every deadline has been missed and no one believes it anymore.  It amuses me when I see you and the other pumpers trying to build up this coin so you can dump it off on some other unsuspecting new person.  Of course you all deny that's what you're doing but come on.  Really?  If you seriously believed all the hype about this coin that you spew, you wouldn't be altruistically sharing that information with us and thus diluting your own profits, you would just buy the coins quietly and keep your mouth shut.  You wouldn't be advertising, you would be hoping no one else notices! 

Anyways, you want to make money in this game?  Ditch the shitcoins and buy BTC.  It's a currency, not a fucking social movement or the answer to all of life's questions even the ones you didn't ask yet, so it doesn't have all the cute gimmicks.  It doesn't have some fake anonymity, or puny interest rate, or DACs, or shitty video games built into the browser, or whatever gimmicky shit people are putting in alt coins these days to cover up the fact that the currency can't actually be used as a currency.  BTC is boring, all you can do with it is buy shit. 


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 05, 2014, 12:01:29 AM
How are you basing your ROI calculations on? How do these DAC generate the profit for you?

They don't.  But the bags are getting sooooooo heavy.......

Brian have you done any research into BitShares? I don't think you have. Or you would understand why pts is extremely undervalued and this is a good entry point for investing in next generation blockchain technology. Bitshares-PTS  (http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/BitShares_PTS) is a simple clone of bitcoin. Its specs are not where it gets its value from. The value of PTS comes from the fact that it gives you a share of future distributed autonomous companies that are being launched by Invictus Innovation and other developers using the bitshares_toolkit (https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares_toolkit). I encourage you to check out the alfa testing (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5381.0) that is going on currently.

None of those "distributed autonomous companies" exist.  PTS gives you stake in non existent companies, hence its non existent value.  I wonder, can I buy these companies that don't exist yet, with dollars that don't exist yet?  I'm guessing that while they expect you to take their word that you will eventually get something, they don't take IOUs but only hard cash.  Funny how these scams always work the same way.

Some major enhancements to the blockchain technology have already been implemented that make it much better than any other crypto-currnency/crypto-equity platforms to date...

Yea sure.  Something like 400 altcoins exist and they all promise to be "major enhancements to blockchain technology".  Maybe they are and maybe they aren't but no one cares because you can't actually buy anything with them. 

The BitShares platform uses Delegated Proof of Stake (http://bitshares.org/delegated-proof-of-stake/), which allows for greater, more effiecient security and transaction processing than bitcoin at a fraction of the cost. Blocks are produced every 15 seconds and *full* confirmation is around 12 minutes.

Except the devs fucked up the difficulty re targeting so no one is mining it.  So transactions now take literally DAYS to confirm, not seconds or minutes.  Your first clue that they don't care should have been when they never fixed this.
 
Listen, I do appreciate PTS for what it was.  For a brief window of about 3 or 4  weeks, it was *immensely* profitable to mine.  I probably made more BTC in that one month mining PTS than I have made mining everything else put together before and since.  But come on that's all it ever was, a quick buck for the devs that the rest of us could ride along for.  When they took the snapshot and then never released the DAC that should have finally clarified for you that there was no substance behind the hype.  But then in that 3 day window when the difficulty was normalized, there people like you were again, still buying. 

So I get it, I get that you bought into the hype and bought these coins, and I appreciate that.  But the time to get out was months ago, back when you still had a chance of convincing people that these DACs were real.  Not now, after every deadline has been missed and no one believes it anymore.  It amuses me when I see you and the other pumpers trying to build up this coin so you can dump it off on some other unsuspecting new person.  Of course you all deny that's what you're doing but come on.  Really?  If you seriously believed all the hype about this coin that you spew, you wouldn't be altruistically sharing that information with us and thus diluting your own profits, you would just buy the coins quietly and keep your mouth shut.  You wouldn't be advertising, you would be hoping no one else notices! 

Anyways, you want to make money in this game?  Ditch the shitcoins and buy BTC.  It's a currency, not a fucking social movement or the answer to all of life's questions even the ones you didn't ask yet, so it doesn't have all the cute gimmicks.  It doesn't have some fake anonymity, or puny interest rate, or DACs, or shitty video games built into the browser, or whatever gimmicky shit people are putting in alt coins these days to cover up the fact that the currency can't actually be used as a currency.  BTC is boring, all you can do with it is buy shit. 

I'm not talking about pts. im talking about bitshares x, the current iteration of which lays the foundation for all other bitshares dacs. please see the links i provided in my previous post. the bitshares blockchains have the features I just outlined above which makes them far better than any system to date including bitcoin. there is no mining. block times are 15 seconds. and confirmation is one block. initial transaction per second will be 10. the alpha testing has demonstrated that the blockchain can handle 100tps. I don't have any pts at the moment, but I'm currently buying them. there will be 4 major snapshots that take place in the following weeks. Pts will go up just like it did for the original bitshare x snapshot. if you are a speculator you know this to be true. and if you are a long time investor who has seen the development team demonstrate a system that is far better than any to date you will also understand this to be true.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: bitcoincal on July 05, 2014, 02:21:01 AM
Well, in the next few weeks were gonna see who was right about this? ???


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 05, 2014, 02:35:56 AM
Well, in the next few weeks were gonna see who was right about this? ???

If you just do your research its a no brainer


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: brian_23452 on July 05, 2014, 02:37:21 AM
How are you basing your ROI calculations on? How do these DAC generate the profit for you?

They don't.  But the bags are getting sooooooo heavy.......

Brian have you done any research into BitShares? I don't think you have. Or you would understand why pts is extremely undervalued and this is a good entry point for investing in next generation blockchain technology. Bitshares-PTS  (http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/BitShares_PTS) is a simple clone of bitcoin. Its specs are not where it gets its value from. The value of PTS comes from the fact that it gives you a share of future distributed autonomous companies that are being launched by Invictus Innovation and other developers using the bitshares_toolkit (https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares_toolkit). I encourage you to check out the alfa testing (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5381.0) that is going on currently.

None of those "distributed autonomous companies" exist.  PTS gives you stake in non existent companies, hence its non existent value.  I wonder, can I buy these companies that don't exist yet, with dollars that don't exist yet?  I'm guessing that while they expect you to take their word that you will eventually get something, they don't take IOUs but only hard cash.  Funny how these scams always work the same way.

Some major enhancements to the blockchain technology have already been implemented that make it much better than any other crypto-currnency/crypto-equity platforms to date...

Yea sure.  Something like 400 altcoins exist and they all promise to be "major enhancements to blockchain technology".  Maybe they are and maybe they aren't but no one cares because you can't actually buy anything with them. 

The BitShares platform uses Delegated Proof of Stake (http://bitshares.org/delegated-proof-of-stake/), which allows for greater, more effiecient security and transaction processing than bitcoin at a fraction of the cost. Blocks are produced every 15 seconds and *full* confirmation is around 12 minutes.

Except the devs fucked up the difficulty re targeting so no one is mining it.  So transactions now take literally DAYS to confirm, not seconds or minutes.  Your first clue that they don't care should have been when they never fixed this.
 
Listen, I do appreciate PTS for what it was.  For a brief window of about 3 or 4  weeks, it was *immensely* profitable to mine.  I probably made more BTC in that one month mining PTS than I have made mining everything else put together before and since.  But come on that's all it ever was, a quick buck for the devs that the rest of us could ride along for.  When they took the snapshot and then never released the DAC that should have finally clarified for you that there was no substance behind the hype.  But then in that 3 day window when the difficulty was normalized, there people like you were again, still buying. 

So I get it, I get that you bought into the hype and bought these coins, and I appreciate that.  But the time to get out was months ago, back when you still had a chance of convincing people that these DACs were real.  Not now, after every deadline has been missed and no one believes it anymore.  It amuses me when I see you and the other pumpers trying to build up this coin so you can dump it off on some other unsuspecting new person.  Of course you all deny that's what you're doing but come on.  Really?  If you seriously believed all the hype about this coin that you spew, you wouldn't be altruistically sharing that information with us and thus diluting your own profits, you would just buy the coins quietly and keep your mouth shut.  You wouldn't be advertising, you would be hoping no one else notices! 

Anyways, you want to make money in this game?  Ditch the shitcoins and buy BTC.  It's a currency, not a fucking social movement or the answer to all of life's questions even the ones you didn't ask yet, so it doesn't have all the cute gimmicks.  It doesn't have some fake anonymity, or puny interest rate, or DACs, or shitty video games built into the browser, or whatever gimmicky shit people are putting in alt coins these days to cover up the fact that the currency can't actually be used as a currency.  BTC is boring, all you can do with it is buy shit. 

I'm not talking about pts. im talking about bitshares x, the current iteration of which lays the foundation for all other bitshares dacs. please see the links i provided in my previous post. the bitshares blockchains have the features I just outlined above which makes them far better than any system to date including bitcoin. there is no mining. block times are 15 seconds. and confirmation is one block. initial transaction per second will be 10. the alpha testing has demonstrated that the blockchain can handle 100tps. I don't have any pts at the moment, but I'm currently buying them. there will be 4 major snapshots that take place in the following weeks. Pts will go up just like it did for the original bitshare x snapshot. if you are a speculator you know this to be true. and if you are a long time investor who has seen the development team demonstrate a system that is far better than any to date you will also understand this to be true.


You mean the bitshares X that was supposed to be released back in February?  The one where, everyone like you bought up PTS from people like me to get it before the snap shot but then never got anything for it?  That bitshares X?  Getting burned once wasn't enough, you need to come back for more?  

Anyways, as that guy said, there is little reason to argue about this.  PTS is currently trading at 0.0069BTC on Cryptsy, we can all just come back in a month or two and see what new low it has achieved.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 05, 2014, 04:19:28 AM
How are you basing your ROI calculations on? How do these DAC generate the profit for you?

They don't.  But the bags are getting sooooooo heavy.......

Brian have you done any research into BitShares? I don't think you have. Or you would understand why pts is extremely undervalued and this is a good entry point for investing in next generation blockchain technology. Bitshares-PTS  (http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/BitShares_PTS) is a simple clone of bitcoin. Its specs are not where it gets its value from. The value of PTS comes from the fact that it gives you a share of future distributed autonomous companies that are being launched by Invictus Innovation and other developers using the bitshares_toolkit (https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares_toolkit). I encourage you to check out the alfa testing (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5381.0) that is going on currently.

None of those "distributed autonomous companies" exist.  PTS gives you stake in non existent companies, hence its non existent value.  I wonder, can I buy these companies that don't exist yet, with dollars that don't exist yet?  I'm guessing that while they expect you to take their word that you will eventually get something, they don't take IOUs but only hard cash.  Funny how these scams always work the same way.

Some major enhancements to the blockchain technology have already been implemented that make it much better than any other crypto-currnency/crypto-equity platforms to date...

Yea sure.  Something like 400 altcoins exist and they all promise to be "major enhancements to blockchain technology".  Maybe they are and maybe they aren't but no one cares because you can't actually buy anything with them. 

The BitShares platform uses Delegated Proof of Stake (http://bitshares.org/delegated-proof-of-stake/), which allows for greater, more effiecient security and transaction processing than bitcoin at a fraction of the cost. Blocks are produced every 15 seconds and *full* confirmation is around 12 minutes.

Except the devs fucked up the difficulty re targeting so no one is mining it.  So transactions now take literally DAYS to confirm, not seconds or minutes.  Your first clue that they don't care should have been when they never fixed this.
 
Listen, I do appreciate PTS for what it was.  For a brief window of about 3 or 4  weeks, it was *immensely* profitable to mine.  I probably made more BTC in that one month mining PTS than I have made mining everything else put together before and since.  But come on that's all it ever was, a quick buck for the devs that the rest of us could ride along for.  When they took the snapshot and then never released the DAC that should have finally clarified for you that there was no substance behind the hype.  But then in that 3 day window when the difficulty was normalized, there people like you were again, still buying. 

So I get it, I get that you bought into the hype and bought these coins, and I appreciate that.  But the time to get out was months ago, back when you still had a chance of convincing people that these DACs were real.  Not now, after every deadline has been missed and no one believes it anymore.  It amuses me when I see you and the other pumpers trying to build up this coin so you can dump it off on some other unsuspecting new person.  Of course you all deny that's what you're doing but come on.  Really?  If you seriously believed all the hype about this coin that you spew, you wouldn't be altruistically sharing that information with us and thus diluting your own profits, you would just buy the coins quietly and keep your mouth shut.  You wouldn't be advertising, you would be hoping no one else notices! 

Anyways, you want to make money in this game?  Ditch the shitcoins and buy BTC.  It's a currency, not a fucking social movement or the answer to all of life's questions even the ones you didn't ask yet, so it doesn't have all the cute gimmicks.  It doesn't have some fake anonymity, or puny interest rate, or DACs, or shitty video games built into the browser, or whatever gimmicky shit people are putting in alt coins these days to cover up the fact that the currency can't actually be used as a currency.  BTC is boring, all you can do with it is buy shit. 

I'm not talking about pts. im talking about bitshares x, the current iteration of which lays the foundation for all other bitshares dacs. please see the links i provided in my previous post. the bitshares blockchains have the features I just outlined above which makes them far better than any system to date including bitcoin. there is no mining. block times are 15 seconds. and confirmation is one block. initial transaction per second will be 10. the alpha testing has demonstrated that the blockchain can handle 100tps. I don't have any pts at the moment, but I'm currently buying them. there will be 4 major snapshots that take place in the following weeks. Pts will go up just like it did for the original bitshare x snapshot. if you are a speculator you know this to be true. and if you are a long time investor who has seen the development team demonstrate a system that is far better than any to date you will also understand this to be true.


You mean the bitshares X that was supposed to be released back in February?  The one where, everyone like you bought up PTS from people like me to get it before the snap shot but then never got anything for it?  That bitshares X?  Getting burned once wasn't enough, you need to come back for more?  

Anyways, as that guy said, there is little reason to argue about this.  PTS is currently trading at 0.0069BTC on Cryptsy, we can all just come back in a month or two and see what new low it has achieved.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm providing you with information that you clearly do not have. Please just see the provided links and check out the alpha test so you can determine for yourself whether or not pts is undervalued.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: Fernandez on July 05, 2014, 07:27:45 AM
You mean the bitshares X that was supposed to be released back in February?  The one where, everyone like you bought up PTS from people like me to get it before the snap shot but then never got anything for it?  That bitshares X?  Getting burned once wasn't enough, you need to come back for more?  

Anyways, as that guy said, there is little reason to argue about this.  PTS is currently trading at 0.0069BTC on Cryptsy, we can all just come back in a month or two and see what new low it has achieved.

At least you managed to get in their private party. I am quite regular on this forum and completely missed it.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: devphp on July 05, 2014, 08:29:25 AM
"BitShares isn't a distributed system, it is more like coordinated synchronized time shared centralized system."

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5402.msg72829#msg72829

another Ripple in the way it establishes network consensus? Not decentralized?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 05, 2014, 02:47:42 PM
"BitShares isn't a distributed system, it is more like coordinated synchronized time shared centralized system."

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5402.msg72829#msg72829

another Ripple in the way it establishes network consensus? Not decentralized?

It's a good question. I'm not technical, so I'd rather wait for someone like Clout to describe it better. Also feel free to go ask questions in the thread. Personally I'd like be interested in seeing more of the ways it could be compromised or attacked. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4009.0

As it stands at the moment, my understanding is -

They call Bitcoin decentralised, and we pay at least $100 per $1000 of every Bitcoin we own to miners via inflation per year, for the security and advantages decentralisation is supposed to provide. Yet in Bitcoin you only have to get to two people to attack and significantly damage Bitcoin, (Pool owners of Ghash.io & Discus fish atm.) - I still keep 1/2 my crypto-equity in BTC, but it does seem like one of the most vulnerable systems possible.

BitShares has 101 delegates voted for by users in paid roles, they are assigned blocks randomly and they only have the power to process and include/exclude transactions, the system automatically detects bad behaviour and fires them and they can also be easily voted off by users. So in BitShares you'd need to get to at least 52 elected delgates located all around the world (In different jurisdictions) on normal computers. This would be very hard for a Gov/Nefarious entity to do. This could be done by buying up 52% of the stake but this would make shareholders extremely wealthy. (It's hard to buy even a small stake, like 30K Bitcoins, 0.2% without moving the market.) This attack would also be pretty transparent, unlike acquiring ASICS which doesn't make Bitcoin holders richer and can be done discreetly.

Also Bitcoin & all the stuff that will come on top of it is running on 1 Base blockchain. In BitShares there will be bespoke blockchains tweaked for different companies needs as well as variants of them. So as I understand it, it's a system that is much harder to attack/compromise than any existing system. At attack should be very transparent, even if you did gain control your options would be limited and you would only have 1 Blockchain out of hundreds that would just be forked.

The advantages of the above system is that are transactions can be processed multiple times faster, for a fraction of the cost and at volumes that rival the biggest clearing houses in the world.

Given the huge cost savings, privacy benefits,  our banks based on blockchains should be able to overtake the exisiting status quo, and there's nothing they can do about it, besides make shareholders very wealthy.

Again some of that may be incorrect. Just as non-technical investor that was my view, there is an intro to DPOS on their website.

http://bitshares.org/intro-to-delegated-proof-of-stake/


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: devphp on July 05, 2014, 02:49:42 PM
"BitShares isn't a distributed system, it is more like coordinated synchronized time shared centralized system."

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5402.msg72829#msg72829

another Ripple in the way it establishes network consensus? Not decentralized?

It's a good question. I'm not technical, so I'd rather wait for someone like Clout to describe it better. Also feel free to go ask questions in the thread. Personally I'd like be interested in seeing more of the ways it could be compromised or attacked. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4009.0

As it stands at the moment, my understanding is -

They call Bitcoin decentralised, and we pay at least $100 per $1000 of every Bitcoin we own to miners via inflation per year, for the security and advantages decentralisation is supposed to provide. Yet in Bitcoin you only have to get to two people to attack and significantly damage Bitcoin, (Pool owners of Ghash.io & Discus fish atm.) - I still keep 1/2 my crypto-equity in BTC, but it does seem like one of the most vulnerable systems possible.

BitShares has 101 delegates voted for by users in paid roles, they are assigned blocks randomly and they only have the power to process and include/exclude transactions, the system automatically detects bad behaviour and fires them and they can also be easily voted off by users. So in BitShares you'd need to get to at least 51 elected delgates located all around the world on normal computers. This could be done by buying up 51% of the stake. This would make shareholders extremely wealthy. (It's hard to buy even a small stake, like 30K Bitcoins, 0.2% without moving the market.) This attack would also be pretty transparent, unlike acquiring ASICS which doesn't make Bitcoin holders richer and can be done discreetly.

Also Bitcoin & all the stuff that will come on top of it is running on 1 Base blockchain. In BitShares there will be bespoke blockchains tweaked for different companies needs as well as variants of them. So as I understand it, it's a system that is much harder to attack/compromise than any existing system. At attack should be very transparent, even if you did gain control your options would be limited and you would only have 1 Blockchain out of hundreds that would just be forked.

The advantages of the above system is that are transactions can be processed multiple times faster, for a fraction of the cost and at volumes that rival the biggest clearing houses in the world.

Given the huge cost savings, privacy benefits,  our banks based on blockchains should be able to overtake the exisiting status quo, and there's nothing they can do about it, besides make shareholders very wealthy.

Again some of that may be incorrect. Just as non-technical investor that was my view, there is an intro to DPOS on their website.

http://bitshares.org/intro-to-delegated-proof-of-stake/

Bitcoin can no longer be considered decentralized, that has been proven, thus there is no need to compare with Bitcoin :)


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 05, 2014, 02:51:46 PM
"BitShares isn't a distributed system, it is more like coordinated synchronized time shared centralized system."

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5402.msg72829#msg72829

another Ripple in the way it establishes network consensus? Not decentralized?

It's a good question. I'm not technical, so I'd rather wait for someone like Clout to describe it better. Also feel free to go ask questions in the thread. Personally I'd like be interested in seeing more of the ways it could be compromised or attacked. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4009.0

As it stands at the moment, my understanding is -

They call Bitcoin decentralised, and we pay at least $100 per $1000 of every Bitcoin we own to miners via inflation per year, for the security and advantages decentralisation is supposed to provide. Yet in Bitcoin you only have to get to two people to attack and significantly damage Bitcoin, (Pool owners of Ghash.io & Discus fish atm.) - I still keep 1/2 my crypto-equity in BTC, but it does seem like one of the most vulnerable systems possible.

BitShares has 101 delegates voted for by users in paid roles, they are assigned blocks randomly and they only have the power to process and include/exclude transactions, the system automatically detects bad behaviour and fires them and they can also be easily voted off by users. So in BitShares you'd need to get to at least 51 elected delgates located all around the world on normal computers. This could be done by buying up 51% of the stake. This would make shareholders extremely wealthy. (It's hard to buy even a small stake, like 30K Bitcoins, 0.2% without moving the market.) This attack would also be pretty transparent, unlike acquiring ASICS which doesn't make Bitcoin holders richer and can be done discreetly.

Also Bitcoin & all the stuff that will come on top of it is running on 1 Base blockchain. In BitShares there will be bespoke blockchains tweaked for different companies needs as well as variants of them. So as I understand it, it's a system that is much harder to attack/compromise than any existing system. At attack should be very transparent, even if you did gain control your options would be limited and you would only have 1 Blockchain out of hundreds that would just be forked.

The advantages of the above system is that are transactions can be processed multiple times faster, for a fraction of the cost and at volumes that rival the biggest clearing houses in the world.

Given the huge cost savings, privacy benefits,  our banks based on blockchains should be able to overtake the exisiting status quo, and there's nothing they can do about it, besides make shareholders very wealthy.

Again some of that may be incorrect. Just as non-technical investor that was my view, there is an intro to DPOS on their website.

http://bitshares.org/intro-to-delegated-proof-of-stake/

Bitcoin can no longer be considered decentralized, that has been proven, thus there is no need to compare with Bitcoin :)

Cool, What would you say, in your opinion, is the best system in terms of decentralisation and performance out there at the moment?

Personally I like NXT (It's my third biggest holding) but I haven't been following it lately and I know they had a very bad initial distribution which is always a concern for some.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: devphp on July 05, 2014, 02:55:26 PM
Cool, What would you say, in your opinion, is the best system in terms of decentralisation and performance out there at the moment?

My opinion would be called biased if I said it's NXT.
I see BitShares has achieved a pretty good decentralization level compared to Bitcoin.
Will it be good enough in the future? Only time can tell.
Certainly, 101 delegated nodes are far more difficult to compromise than just 2 biggest Bitcoin pools. It's not 100% decentralization, but I guess many people will find it decent enough to use.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: From Above on July 05, 2014, 02:56:03 PM
BITSHAREZ TO THE STARS

~CfA~


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 05, 2014, 03:10:45 PM
Cool, What would you say, in your opinion, is the best system in terms of decentralisation and performance out there at the moment?

My opinion would be called biased if I said it's NXT.
I see BitShares has achieved a pretty good decentralization level compared to Bitcoin.
Will it be good enough in the future? Only time can tell.
Certainly, 101 delegated nodes are far more difficult to compromise than just 2 biggest Bitcoin pools. It's not 100% decentralization, but I guess many people will find it decent enough to use.

Yeah I would agree with that.

I'm one of the people who think decentralisation is a means not an end. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3923.0

Any increased decentralisation starts to add significant cost and time delay to the network. For me it's about .Gov or the banks/corporations trying to interfere with my liberty. 'If' DPOS achieves security against that & attack/compromise, (Other than making me wealthy with a buyout) then I'm OK with that.

It means BitShares will have the most competitive blockchains, and I know most end customers generally want the best products at the best price. So we should be able to outperform both centralised systems and ones that are more decentralised.

Though I think there will still be a market for people who like more decentralised systems on principle.
 


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 05, 2014, 04:58:55 PM
dudes,  BitShares was debunked as bullshit earlier, why keep postig the shite?

~CfA~

& now -

BITSHAREZ TO THE STARS

~CfA~

Unless you're being sarcastic, is it fair to say you've looked into what they're doing lately and you've changed your mind?

Would be great if that's the case!


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: statdude on July 05, 2014, 06:53:04 PM
I am mostly a fan of BTS/PTS/AGS - but with how much has been invested (10,000+ BTC) already, situation / upside seems limited as in the case of XCP and MaidSafe.

Hard to multiply 10 million dollars overnight.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 05, 2014, 08:47:30 PM
I am mostly a fan of BTS/PTS/AGS - but with how much has been invested (10,000+ BTC) already, situation / upside seems limited as in the case of XCP and MaidSafe.

Hard to multiply 10 million dollars overnight.

It's a fair point. From a pure trading perspective, the stability of PTS and low volatility/downside potential also has to be taken into the equation.

For the last 80 days it's been trading in the $3.4-$4.5 range. For the last 30 days $4.1-$4.6.

So even the potential to double/triple from a very stable base is appealing to me.

Other:

BitShares X (Which buying PTS now won't get you a stake in) is being released real soon. The average of the 79 votes sees a starting market CAP of $65 000 000. (Which will put in no.3 on coinmarketcap) https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5404.0


If the CAP is anywhere near that it will create a lot of interest in the potential of their future DAC's especially as they see their new DPOS blockchain in action too.  It all points to a big shift up imo.
 


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 05, 2014, 08:59:36 PM
You mean the bitshares X that was supposed to be released back in February?  The one where, everyone like you bought up PTS from people like me to get it before the snap shot but then never got anything for it?  That bitshares X?  Getting burned once wasn't enough, you need to come back for more?  

Anyways, as that guy said, there is little reason to argue about this.  PTS is currently trading at 0.0069BTC on Cryptsy, we can all just come back in a month or two and see what new low it has achieved.

At least you managed to get in their private party. I am quite regular on this forum and completely missed it.

Thats because the forum has been flooded with junk. BitShares was announced a year ago. you can still donate funds to the ecosystem through  BitShares AGS  (http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/BitShares_AGS). BitShares has the longest and most open funding model of any of the next generation projects. I suggest you acquire AGS while they are still cheap and available. The AGS crowdfunding ends in less than two weeks.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 05, 2014, 10:09:12 PM
Cool, What would you say, in your opinion, is the best system in terms of decentralisation and performance out there at the moment?

My opinion would be called biased if I said it's NXT.
I see BitShares has achieved a pretty good decentralization level compared to Bitcoin.
Will it be good enough in the future? Only time can tell.
Certainly, 101 delegated nodes are far more difficult to compromise than just 2 biggest Bitcoin pools. It's not 100% decentralization, but I guess many people will find it decent enough to use.

please see the following comparison of the bitshares blockchain vs other platforms. it will serve to better elucidate why pts & ags are good investments.

http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F#Comparison_of_BitShares_and_Other_Platforms


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 06, 2014, 02:50:52 AM
Top 10 reasons to be excited about BitShares right now

 http://bitshares.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/News-Letter-08-July-2014.pdf

Reason 10:  BitShares Toolkit 1.0

Reason 9: DPOS

Reason 8: TITAN (Transfer invisibility to a name)

Reason 7: AGS

Reason 6: Next PTS Snapshots

Reason 5: Delegate Election Campaigns

Reason 4: Developers are co-located

Reason 3: Six Third Party Developers now honor PTS and AGS

Reason 2: Snapshots and ProtoDAC releases will happen every few weeks beginning… now

Reason 1:  BitShares X!

A lot more detail in the newsletter. Check it out!

* I should mention as this thread is about PTS that BitShares X was already allocated on 28/02/2014.





Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: devphp on July 06, 2014, 06:13:51 AM
please see the following comparison of the bitshares blockchain vs other platforms. it will serve to better elucidate why pts & ags are good investments.

http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F#Comparison_of_BitShares_and_Other_Platforms


Yes, I've seen it.
This comparison makes many early assumption and should be taken with a grain of salt.
First of all, the 15 seconds block time confirms it's a centralized system, as truely decentralized systems can't have that small of a block time and achieve decent reliability with that.

The whitepaper says there will be 101 delegated nodes, which in theory should make it less centralized.
But in practise it'll work out to 20 people managing all 101 nodes, which makes it more centralized than it should be by design, because running a ddos-protected fault-tolerant node would require quite a bit of skills. 20 people is a rough number, could be 30, you get the idea, but I don't believe it can be 101 different persons each running 1 node, not in the first year at least.

By the time when there are 101 different persons each running 1 BitShares node only (if that is achievable at all, since some may not stop running more nodes than they should), NXT will have TF which will remove the requirement for 720 blocks blockchain reorganization + other features will be added like Dividends (planned for 1.3.xx), etc., hence that comparison table will change. NXT has been battle tested for 8 months now as a truely decentralized system. BitShares is only running on testnet without everybody and their mother attacking it on live net and has been planned as a centralized distributed system. Distributed != decentralized. Ripple can also achieve a few seconds block time, because it is also a centralized distributed system, but it has issues with distribution of shares. Bitshares improved on distribution of shares, but left the centralization issue a concern.

Please don't get me wrong, I am not saying that people won't use BitShares. But the goals of BitShares and NXT are different, hence it's really hard to compare them. After all, many people use banks, and they are as centralized as can be. BitShares stands somewhere between banks and NXT in that aspect :)


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 06, 2014, 08:25:48 AM
how is the centralization an issue? i want you to really think hard about that question. the point of the making these systems decentralized is so that there is no one point of failure and no one point of control. with dpos you get that since delegates have an easy task that can be audited by all clients on the network. delegates can not sign two blocks or they will be fired, so the cannot double spend. delegates cannot stop processing transactions or they will get voted out for a delegated that can. delegates are neither a central point of failure or control. the network is secured by the shareholders. as a result of this structure you have a more scalable system.

nxt is adding new features that will make the transaction sizes excessive. while i was generous to leave transactions per second at 3.4. the base transaction size is 160 bytes, but there are transaction types that can be as large as 10KiB, limiting the block to only 3 of these transaction - thats 0.05 tps. the largest transaction size for bitshares is 340 bytes.

both from a design and technical standpoint bitshares is more scalable than nxt. while you can say that nxt is more decentralized, bitshares is more secure.

if the comparison chart assumes anything at all it assumes the worst possible scenario for bitshares and the best possible scenario for competitors. everything in the bitshares column aside from market pegged assets has been tested on public test network.




Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: devphp on July 06, 2014, 08:35:11 AM
how is the centralization an issue? i want you to really think hard about that question. the point of the making these systems decentralized is so that there is no one point of failure and no one point of control. with dpos you get that since delegates have an easy task that can be audited by all clients on the network. delegates can not sign two blocks or they will be fired, so the cannot double spend. delegates cannot stop processing transactions or they will get voted out for a delegated that can. delegates are neither a central point of failure or control. the network is secured by the shareholders. as a result of this structure you have a more scalable system.

nxt is adding new features that will make the transaction sizes excessive. while i was generous to leave transactions per second at 3.4. the base transaction size is 160 bytes, but there are transaction types that can be as large as 10KiB, limiting the block to only 3 of these transaction - thats 0.05 tps. the largest transaction size for bitshares is 340 bytes.

both from a design and technical standpoint bitshares is more scalable than nxt. while you can say that nxt is more decentralized, bitshares is more secure.

if the comparison chart assumes anything at all it assumes the worst possible scenario for bitshares and the best possible scenario for competitors. everything in the bitshares column aside from market pegged assets has been tested on public test network.

What if several delegates collude or are coerced? Especially if these several delegates each controls more than 1 node. That makes them a central point of failure. You can't fire old delegates and hire new ones dynamically, it takes time. If they collude or are coerced and do harm to the network, it will take time to recover from the damage. NXT doesn't have this limitation per design, hence NXT is more secure.

tx size and the 3.4 limit is temporary. Until TF is implemented, NXT is still in the bootstrapping phase. Until TF is implemented NXT is not what it's designed to eventually be. When TF is implemented, NXT will be more scalable.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: Cygnify on July 06, 2014, 08:53:10 AM
Does anyone know when the next PTS snapshots are taking place and for which DACs?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 06, 2014, 09:01:45 AM
how is the centralization an issue? i want you to really think hard about that question. the point of the making these systems decentralized is so that there is no one point of failure and no one point of control. with dpos you get that since delegates have an easy task that can be audited by all clients on the network. delegates can not sign two blocks or they will be fired, so the cannot double spend. delegates cannot stop processing transactions or they will get voted out for a delegated that can. delegates are neither a central point of failure or control. the network is secured by the shareholders. as a result of this structure you have a more scalable system.

nxt is adding new features that will make the transaction sizes excessive. while i was generous to leave transactions per second at 3.4. the base transaction size is 160 bytes, but there are transaction types that can be as large as 10KiB, limiting the block to only 3 of these transaction - thats 0.05 tps. the largest transaction size for bitshares is 340 bytes.

both from a design and technical standpoint bitshares is more scalable than nxt. while you can say that nxt is more decentralized, bitshares is more secure.

if the comparison chart assumes anything at all it assumes the worst possible scenario for bitshares and the best possible scenario for competitors. everything in the bitshares column aside from market pegged assets has been tested on public test network.

What if several delegates collude or are coerced? Especially if these several delegates each controls more than 1 node. That makes them a central point of failure. You can't fire old delegates and hire new ones dynamically, it takes time. If they collude or are coerced and do harm to the network, it will take time to recover from the damage. NXT doesn't have this limitation per design, hence NXT is more secure.

tx size and the 3.4 limit is temporary. Until TF is implemented, NXT is still in the bootstrapping phase. Until TF is implemented NXT is not what it's designed to eventually be. When TF is implemented, NXT will be more scalable.

can you create a plausible scenario for collusion? there is simply no incentive to collude. because this is designed around free market incentives collusion is not economically viable. there is an economic cost to collusion which in a free market economy with out the intervention of government makes it unfavorable for all individuals.

who's argument is reliant upon conjecture now? nxt is going to impliment this they are going to implement that. bitshares has already implemented a dividends system, it has already implemented all the features of nxt and is thus far substantially more scalable. bitshares has been in alpha testing for the past month and a half and has had 8 iterations of public test networks. the speed of development for Invictus Innovation and bitshares team is far greater than the speed of development for nxt


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: devphp on July 06, 2014, 09:05:20 AM
Colluded is less likely than coerced, I admit that. Same argument goes for Bitcoin by the way.

BitShares hasn't launched yet. Test net is so much different than live net. It's too premature to talk about the speed of development of BitShares until they have launched real trading and have been attacked by real hackers who exploit for profit. Not many hackers would exploit the test net, because they can't profit from it.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 06, 2014, 09:07:54 AM
Does anyone know when the next PTS snapshots are taking place and for which DACs?

They have not officially been announced yet. Snapshots for Bitshares Me, Bitshares DNS and Bitshares Lotto will be announced shortly after the launch of the Bitshares X network, which should be sometime this week. Important to note that Bitshares X will not be launched with features for trading BitAssets. The network is being launched to make shares in Bitshares X tradable.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 06, 2014, 09:25:37 AM
Colluded is less likely than coerced, I admit that. Same argument goes for Bitcoin by the way.

BitShares hasn't launched yet. Test net is so much different than live net. It's too premature to talk about the speed of development of BitShares until they have launched real trading and have been attacked by real hackers who exploit for profit. Not many hackers would exploit the test net, because they can't profit from it.

collusion and coercion have no impact on the delegated system. if a delegate is compromised they will be voted out

how is it premature to talk about the speed of development? look at their  github  (https://github.com/BitShares). i would say look at the nxt github but they don't have one. this team is more productive than any other team in the space, i encourage you to look at the githubs of other open source crypto-currency projects.

i would not argue that the system has to be tested more, but the team has demonstrated that they can improve vulnerabilities quickly and efficiently. on the current test network someone flooded the network with 22 tps and the network forked (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5381.msg72463#msg72463). the next day the devs fixed the code and attempted to flood the network with 1000 tps to no avail (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5381.msg72777#msg72777).



Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: devphp on July 06, 2014, 09:33:29 AM
What if 51% of BitShares delegate nodes are compromised or some other large enough number? Wouldn't that cause disruption to the network? Not even temporary?

Github is github, live net is live net. I believe BitShares devs are knowledgeable enough to fix bugs. So, BitShares prevents spamming of the network with enforcing limits on txs in the software. NXT takes a different, fee-based approach to prevent spamming of the network.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: bitcoinpaul on July 06, 2014, 09:33:52 AM
Burned Invested 0.5 BTC in January. I am rich now, right?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 06, 2014, 09:51:35 AM
What if 51% of BitShares delegate nodes are compromised or some other large enough number? Wouldn't that cause disruption to the network? Not even temporary?

Github is github, live net is live net. I believe BitShares devs are knowledgeable enough to fix bugs. So, BitShares prevents spamming of the network with enforcing limits on txs in the software. NXT takes a different, fee-based approach to prevent spamming of the network.

transactions have fees in the bitshares network as well. all of these networks use fees to stop spam.

if 51% of the delegates are compromised - that is more than 51% of delegates are not producing blocks - then the network would require greater confirmation time. delegate participation on the test network has rebounded from 30% to 90% after the fork i referred to.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: devphp on July 06, 2014, 09:57:34 AM
if 51% of the delegates are compromised - that is more than 51% of delegates are not producing blocks - then the network would require greater confirmation time. delegate participation on the test network has rebounded from 30% to 90% after the fork i referred to.

'Compromised' can mean much more than just 'not producing blocks'. And even in that scenario, that would signify some damage to the network. Anyway, BitShares seems like a system designed to function well in normal conditions. It hasn't been tested in battle conditions yet, only time will tell if it's good enough for those.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 06, 2014, 10:24:10 AM
if 51% of the delegates are compromised - that is more than 51% of delegates are not producing blocks - then the network would require greater confirmation time. delegate participation on the test network has rebounded from 30% to 90% after the fork i referred to.

'Compromised' can mean much more than just 'not producing blocks'. And even in that scenario, that would signify some damage to the network. Anyway, BitShares seems like a system designed to function well in normal conditions. It hasn't been tested in battle conditions yet, only time will tell if it's good enough for those.

No you have misunderstood. Compromised does not mean anything more than not producing a block. That is the only way a delegate can be comprised. Delegates don't have any role other than producing blocks. If a delegate filters transactions they will automatically lose approval as each client can detect this action and each subsequent transaction will remove approval until the delegated is ultimately voted out of his or her position. And the next capable delegate will include the transactions.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: devphp on July 06, 2014, 10:27:35 AM
No you have misunderstood. Compromised does not mean anything more than not producing a block. That is the only way a delegate can be comprised. Delegates don't have any role other than producing blocks. If a delegate filters transactions they will automatically lose approval as each client can detect this action and each subsequent transaction will remove approval until the delegated is ultimately voted out of his or her position. And the next capable delegate will include the transactions.

Ah ok, I see, thank you for clarifying. This doesn't completely eliminate the attack vector, as this can still cause damage to the network, but gives it less chance to be successful.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 07, 2014, 02:59:40 AM
BitShares.p2p will be snap-shotting off PTS in a few months

Quote
A secure alternative to todays domain name system that eliminates domain name squatting while providing security against government seizures & man-in-the-middle attacks.

Just reading an article on ZH that makes me think it can't come too soon!

Internet Censorship Explodes - Google Receives 250,000 "Removal" Requests.

Quote
 So it appears Orwell’s feared “memory hole” has begun to emerge in Europe. The way censorship is gaining a foothold in the region is through something known as a “right to be forgotten” ruling issued by the European Court of Justice. This ruling states that Google must essentially delete “inadequate, irrelevant or no longer relevant” data from its results when a member of the public requests it.

Of course this is incredibly vague, and who is to decide what it “no longer relevant” anyway? Seems quite subjective. This is clearly an attempt to take a tool designed to decentralize information flow (the internet) and centralize and censor it. As such, it must be resisted at all costs.

So far, we know of two major media organizations that have been informed of deleted or censored articles, the BBC and the Guardian. The BBC story is the one that has received the most attention because the content related to former ex-Merrill Lynch CEO Stan O’Neal, who received a $161.5 million golden parachute compensation package after running the Wall Street firm into the ground and playing a key role in destroying the U.S. economy.

Quote
Which means that to all intents and purposes the article has been removed from the public record, given that Google is the route to information and stories for most people.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-06/internet-censorship-explodes-google-receives-250000-removal-requests


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: bitcoincal on July 07, 2014, 03:15:53 AM
Top 10 reasons to be excited about BitShares right now


Reason 6: Next PTS Snapshots



Next PTS Snapshots for new DACS? That's what you get by donating to PTS now? Any idea what those new DACS those will be?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 07, 2014, 03:32:43 AM
Top 10 reasons to be excited about BitShares right now


Reason 6: Next PTS Snapshots



Next PTS Snapshots for new DACS? That's what you get by donating to PTS now? Any idea what those new DACS those will be?

BitShares Me - user issued assets and exchange (this is already implemented on BitShares X so I'm not too sure how they will be making the distinction)
BitShares DNS (.p2p)
BitShares Lotto 
BitShares Vote
BitShares Music
BitShares Insurance

you can find specific information at bitsharestalk.org or wiki.bitshares.org


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 07, 2014, 03:38:22 AM
Top 10 reasons to be excited about BitShares right now


Reason 6: Next PTS Snapshots



Next PTS Snapshots for new DACS? That's what you get by donating to PTS now? Any idea what those new DACS those will be?

Yes the three main ones I'm focusing on are the BitShares.p2p domain system, a lottery DAC called BitShares Lotto & BitShares Music. But there's more in the pipeline at various stages. (I noticed a third party is putting this site together Bitsharesmarket.com which covers a lot of the DAC's.)

To be honest the tough part is valuing their effect on PTS. Say I estimate those three DAC's are probably worth a combined 50 mil. BitShares only commits to give PTS a minimum of 10% of the equity. (However in BitShares X which should be trading in a week or two they gave PTS 50%) So personally I'm hoping for more average equity. Either way PTS is undervalued in my opinion and will jump to reflect the value of whatever the announcements are.



Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: bitcoincal on July 07, 2014, 03:53:35 AM
Top 10 reasons to be excited about BitShares right now


Reason 6: Next PTS Snapshots



Next PTS Snapshots for new DACS? That's what you get by donating to PTS now? Any idea what those new DACS those will be?

Yes the three main ones I'm focusing on are the BitShares.p2p domain system, a lottery DAC called BitShares Lotto & BitShares Music. But there's more in the pipeline at various stages. (I noticed a third party is putting this site together Bitsharesmarket.com which covers a lot of the DAC's.)

To be honest the tough part is valuing their effect on PTS. Say I estimate those three DAC's are probably worth a combined 50 mil. BitShares only commits to give PTS a minimum of 10% of the equity. (However in BitShares X which should be trading in a week or two they gave PTS 50%) So personally I'm hoping for more average equity. Either way PTS is undervalued in my opinion and will jump to reflect the value of whatever the announcements are.



BitShares X is going to be trading where?

Sorry, for all the questions. This seems promising. I'm just not exactly sure where the best entry is?

Donating to AGS in the next few days you get a higher share value of the other DACS.
PTS is undervalued and could double/triple in value.
Bitshares-X has an amazing potential and is almost ready to launch.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 07, 2014, 05:16:54 AM
Top 10 reasons to be excited about BitShares right now


Reason 6: Next PTS Snapshots



Next PTS Snapshots for new DACS? That's what you get by donating to PTS now? Any idea what those new DACS those will be?

Yes the three main ones I'm focusing on are the BitShares.p2p domain system, a lottery DAC called BitShares Lotto & BitShares Music. But there's more in the pipeline at various stages. (I noticed a third party is putting this site together Bitsharesmarket.com which covers a lot of the DAC's.)

To be honest the tough part is valuing their effect on PTS. Say I estimate those three DAC's are probably worth a combined 50 mil. BitShares only commits to give PTS a minimum of 10% of the equity. (However in BitShares X which should be trading in a week or two they gave PTS 50%) So personally I'm hoping for more average equity. Either way PTS is undervalued in my opinion and will jump to reflect the value of whatever the announcements are.



BitShares X is going to be trading where?

Sorry, for all the questions. This seems promising. I'm just not exactly sure where the best entry is?

Donating to AGS in the next few days you get a higher share value of the other DACS.
PTS is undervalued and could double/triple in value.
Bitshares-X has an amazing potential and is almost ready to launch.

BitShares X is going to be made liquid in the next two weeks. It will probably be picked up by every major exchange. Currently pts is traded on bter and crypsty and i would expect xts (bitshares x symbol) to be traded on these exchanges initially and then traded on other exchanges. the api is very simple there is good documentation on how to compare its uses with use of the bitcoin api. since blocktimes are 15 seconds and confirmation takes 1 block i would expect as many exchanges as possible will adopt its use.

I would say of the three possible investment vehicles ags, pts and xts, xts will probably provide the best return although there is the minor possibility of the network being reset given some unforeseen bugs. bitshares x is in active alfa testing and the probability of a reset is minimal but there is always that risk. pts is a good strategy since you can get equity in new dacs while still maintaining a liquid asset. pts is going to get upgrade to the dpos blockchain, so that in and of itself can lead to a great value proposition. ags shares are not liquid but they are probably more undervalued by the market than even pts.

in terms of the three different investment vehicles xts has the greatest possible return, ags has the second greatest and pts comes in third. it is all about preferences and risks.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: devphp on July 07, 2014, 05:18:41 AM
BitShares X is going to be made liquid in the next two weeks.

Is BitShares X the one that was snapshot on Feb 28, initially called Protoshares?
I am confused with all the terminology :D


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 07, 2014, 05:28:41 AM
BitShares X is going to be made liquid in the next two weeks.

Is BitShares X the one that was snapshot on Feb 28, initially called Protoshares?
I am confused with all the terminology :D

The terminology can be confusing as BitShares is more than just a single platform. BitShares X is the bank and exchange, the snapshot of which took place on Feb 28. BitShares PTS was formally called protoshares, but there was a trademark conflict that required a rebranding of the name. BitShares PTS is simply a clone of bitcoin that uses momentum proof of work to make it asic resistant. PTS holders are preallocated at least 10% shares in future DACs.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: bitcoincal on July 07, 2014, 08:54:53 AM
Top 10 reasons to be excited about BitShares right now


Reason 6: Next PTS Snapshots



Next PTS Snapshots for new DACS? That's what you get by donating to PTS now? Any idea what those new DACS those will be?

Yes the three main ones I'm focusing on are the BitShares.p2p domain system, a lottery DAC called BitShares Lotto & BitShares Music. But there's more in the pipeline at various stages. (I noticed a third party is putting this site together Bitsharesmarket.com which covers a lot of the DAC's.)

To be honest the tough part is valuing their effect on PTS. Say I estimate those three DAC's are probably worth a combined 50 mil. BitShares only commits to give PTS a minimum of 10% of the equity. (However in BitShares X which should be trading in a week or two they gave PTS 50%) So personally I'm hoping for more average equity. Either way PTS is undervalued in my opinion and will jump to reflect the value of whatever the announcements are.



BitShares X is going to be trading where?

Sorry, for all the questions. This seems promising. I'm just not exactly sure where the best entry is?

Donating to AGS in the next few days you get a higher share value of the other DACS.
PTS is undervalued and could double/triple in value.
Bitshares-X has an amazing potential and is almost ready to launch.

BitShares X is going to be made liquid in the next two weeks. It will probably be picked up by every major exchange. Currently pts is traded on bter and crypsty and i would expect xts (bitshares x symbol) to be traded on these exchanges initially and then traded on other exchanges. the api is very simple there is good documentation on how to compare its uses with use of the bitcoin api. since blocktimes are 15 seconds and confirmation takes 1 block i would expect as many exchanges as possible will adopt its use.

I would say of the three possible investment vehicles ags, pts and xts, xts will probably provide the best return although there is the minor possibility of the network being reset given some unforeseen bugs. bitshares x is in active alfa testing and the probability of a reset is minimal but there is always that risk. pts is a good strategy since you can get equity in new dacs while still maintaining a liquid asset. pts is going to get upgrade to the dpos blockchain, so that in and of itself can lead to a great value proposition. ags shares are not liquid but they are probably more undervalued by the market than even pts.

in terms of the three different investment vehicles xts has the greatest possible return, ags has the second greatest and pts comes in third. it is all about preferences and risks.

Thanks, you explained that well and have clearly done your homework.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: megashira1 on July 07, 2014, 01:50:14 PM
Are AGS and PTS not the exact same except one is illiquid and the other liquid? Or is their some other stipulations on top of each? Do some DAC's deliver more % to either or?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 07, 2014, 06:10:22 PM
Are AGS and PTS not the exact same except one is illiquid and the other liquid? Or is their some other stipulations on top of each? Do some DAC's deliver more % to either or?

Yes PTS is liquid. AGS is not. They should both get a minimum of 10% in BitShares related DAC's.
(It's possible in future someone may wish to honour PTS/AGS more than that & at different amounts.)

As a result you get really good value if you donate to AGS, but that's only available for 11 more days (End of 200 day donation period.)

http://www1.agsexplorer.com/


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: misterbowls on July 07, 2014, 06:54:04 PM

So BTS-X has become liquid on bter and btc38.  Anyone have any thoughts on it ?  It appears the snapshots from February 28th have been made liquid using the internal backend on bter/btc38.  So you can deposit BTC to buy bts-x, but you can not currently withdraw it.  Is this true ?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 07, 2014, 07:08:43 PM

So BTS-X has become liquid on bter and btc38.  Anyone have any thoughts on it ?  It appears the snapshots from February 28th have been made liquid using the internal backend on bter/btc38.  So you can deposit BTC to buy bts-x, but you can not currently withdraw it.  Is this true ?

That is my understanding yes.

I'm not tech, but my understanding is they decided on their own accord to do it (Bter & BTC38) because version 1 of BitShares X will be released very soon.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: megashira1 on July 07, 2014, 07:37:17 PM
I dont understand what bter did to make BTSX liquid? Can someone explain..


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: rabbiter on July 07, 2014, 07:44:49 PM
Those Bitshare boys are handsome lads.


https://i.imgur.com/6IRhe5n.jpg


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: CiscoStud on July 07, 2014, 07:45:03 PM
Can someone clarify my situations please...

So I finally got rewarded my Bitshares from Bter.

What should I do with the remaining old proshares PTS I have at Bter?  Do they have any useful purpose?



Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 07, 2014, 08:24:39 PM
Can someone clarify my situations please...

So I finally got rewarded my Bitshares from Bter.

What should I do with the remaining old proshares PTS I have at Bter?  Do they have any useful purpose?



Yes, if you're saying you have PTS on the exchange you can either choose to sell them or keep them.  
(If you look on Bter under PTS it has 'Snapshot_PTS_S' once you were allocated those on 28/02/2014 you were free to sell your old PTS or keep them from that date.)

Just like they got you a BitShares X shares (now trading @ a CAP of $25 million) they will also get you shares in future DAC's.
There are a lot being announced the soon. With the big ones being BitShares.P2P, BitShares Music & BitShares lotto.

They are planning to announce dates for snapshots of those shortly after the BitShare-AGS window closes in 11 days. http://www1.agsexplorer.com/
Personally I feel when those are announced PTS will rise in price so I am a buyer right now.

You may want to read BitShares latest newsletter that discusses some of these things - http://bitshares.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/News-Letter-08-July-2014.pdf




Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: bellgarath1 on July 07, 2014, 08:28:03 PM
Interesting.

what are other sources so I can do a little research of my own?

Jerry


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 07, 2014, 08:32:28 PM
Interesting.

what are other sources so I can do a little research of my own?

Jerry

https://bitsharestalk.org/  That is their forum - Over 5000 members  :)
http://bitshares.org/         That is their website


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: ChuckOne on July 07, 2014, 09:17:04 PM
BitShares X if it eventually is able to do what it says on the tin, will have a system that's more decentralised but with enough trust (knowing who will produce next block) that they can handle MasterCard/Visa volumes and process them incredibly rapidly. More importantly you will 'hopefully' be able to hold BitUSD or BitGold on a blockchain. So it's not a shitcoin, more like the - 'could change everything coin' so I guess actually you could call it 'the shit' coin :)

Did you confuse something?

This actually sounds like Nxt. ;)


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: bitcoinpaul on July 07, 2014, 09:21:01 PM
BitShares X if it eventually is able to do what it says on the tin, will have a system that's more decentralised but with enough trust (knowing who will produce next block) that they can handle MasterCard/Visa volumes and process them incredibly rapidly. More importantly you will 'hopefully' be able to hold BitUSD or BitGold on a blockchain. So it's not a shitcoin, more like the - 'could change everything coin' so I guess actually you could call it 'the shit' coin :)

Did you confuse something?

This actually sounds like Nxt. ;)

 :D


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 07, 2014, 10:00:21 PM
BitShares X if it eventually is able to do what it says on the tin, will have a system that's more decentralised but with enough trust (knowing who will produce next block) that they can handle MasterCard/Visa volumes and process them incredibly rapidly. More importantly you will 'hopefully' be able to hold BitUSD or BitGold on a blockchain. So it's not a shitcoin, more like the - 'could change everything coin' so I guess actually you could call it 'the shit' coin :)

Did you confuse something?

This actually sounds like Nxt. ;)

 :D

Yeah sure, choose NXT - If you like a system that's >10X slower, >10X more expensive with <1/2 the features :P

http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F 

Check out the comparison chart - it's still a work in progress but I think BitShares' new DPOS Blockchain is superior.
(NXT is actually my third biggest holding after Bitcoin & BitShares related stuff though...)


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 08, 2014, 12:15:00 AM
BitShares X if it eventually is able to do what it says on the tin, will have a system that's more decentralised but with enough trust (knowing who will produce next block) that they can handle MasterCard/Visa volumes and process them incredibly rapidly. More importantly you will 'hopefully' be able to hold BitUSD or BitGold on a blockchain. So it's not a shitcoin, more like the - 'could change everything coin' so I guess actually you could call it 'the shit' coin :)

Did you confuse something?

This actually sounds like Nxt. ;)

 :D

Yeah sure, choose NXT - If you like a system that's >10X slower, >10X more expensive with <1/2 the features :P

http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F  

Check out the comparison chart - it's still a work in progress but I think BitShares' new DPOS Blockchain is superior.
(NXT is actually my third biggest holding after Bitcoin & BitShares related stuff though...)

Also, you say it sounds like NXT. But you don't have BitGold or BitUsd right?

If I made an asset on NXT exchange and called it NXTUsd, why would any pay a $ for it, why would it track a dollar? It wouldn't.

BitShares X will have assets that can track the price of real world counterparts, using prediction markets and collaterized short positions. Instead of being only able to trade crypto-currencies, like on NXT exchange and others, in BitShares X you'll be able to trade Bit-Assets like BitGold/BitUsd. You can hold the value of gold/currencies/Commodities/Shares on a blockchain! How huge will that be if it works?
That is what I mean when I say it could change everything!

http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Market_Peg


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 08, 2014, 03:51:04 AM
BitShares X if it eventually is able to do what it says on the tin, will have a system that's more decentralised but with enough trust (knowing who will produce next block) that they can handle MasterCard/Visa volumes and process them incredibly rapidly. More importantly you will 'hopefully' be able to hold BitUSD or BitGold on a blockchain. So it's not a shitcoin, more like the - 'could change everything coin' so I guess actually you could call it 'the shit' coin :)

Did you confuse something?

This actually sounds like Nxt. ;)


No it doesnt sound like Nxt. Nxt is coded in java, not c++, which is a liability in and of itself. It cannot scale to Visa volumes... the transactions are both two large and the delegation of block production is not as streamlined as BitShares. It is simply not as scalable of a system. And you do not have market pegged assets that are properly collateralized. It seems that you guys are half way there but not quite. If Nxt were the "could change everything coin" its market cap would have already surpassed litecoin... but i guess in the end we will see what the market consensus demonstrates


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: ChuckOne on July 08, 2014, 05:09:53 AM
BitShares X if it eventually is able to do what it says on the tin, will have a system that's more decentralised but with enough trust (knowing who will produce next block) that they can handle MasterCard/Visa volumes and process them incredibly rapidly. More importantly you will 'hopefully' be able to hold BitUSD or BitGold on a blockchain. So it's not a shitcoin, more like the - 'could change everything coin' so I guess actually you could call it 'the shit' coin :)

Did you confuse something?

This actually sounds like Nxt. ;)

 :D

Yeah sure, choose NXT - If you like a system that's >10X slower, >10X more expensive with <1/2 the features :P

http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F 

Check out the comparison chart - it's still a work in progress but I think BitShares' new DPOS Blockchain is superior.
(NXT is actually my third biggest holding after Bitcoin & BitShares related stuff though...)

Haha, you know that this table is of course in favor of BitShares? Well, obviously if considering the URI of the wiki.

It only lists features that exists BitShares but not those only available on Nxt. ;)
Recommended confirmation time is of course the same as both use the same underlying technology. Here, I stick to the original. :D

About the other features:
for Nxt:
Anonymous Transactions - next major feature release
Profit Sharing - next major feature release
Market Pegged Assets - next major feature release
for BitShares:
well, no release yet; we will see if they deliver => actually the table should show a big red NO ;)


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: Neo.op on July 08, 2014, 05:24:22 AM
Well BTS distribution system is full of holes. First it was:
1 PTS = 1 BTS

Dev's incompetence meant 3I couldn't mine as many as PTS they wanted. So, whats the new plan:
1 PTS ~ 5 AGS = 5 BTS for you (fair enough)

and
1 PTS = 1 BTS for 3I (what the f**)

So basically creating 1 share out of thin air.

1 PTS = 5 BTS for you + 1 BTS for 3I

How will it feel if, say I open an IPO asking you to donate BTC to me. Each BTC will be awarded 1000 coins each. So basically you would think:
1 BTC = 1000 N coins

but then I say, I too have a BTC which you donated so from the same BTC,

Donate BTC = 1000 N coins to me as well
that is,
1 BTC = 2000 coins = 1000 to you and 1000 to me

Thereby, doubling the issue and controlling the majority. So everyone who donated PTS (not BTC) to this campaign, just beware what you have done.


PS: Before anyone jumps the gun, I own a significant amount of PTS but this amount of stupidity just makes me doubt the project.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: devphp on July 08, 2014, 05:29:32 AM
Yeah, the confusing investment scheme doesn't provide for a smooth investing experience and makes you think twice. Provided that an overwhelming majority of coins take a pump and then dump after the launch due to various factors, I don't think there is a particular hurry to invest now vs waiting till the live net comes online and major quirks have been ironed out. I hope there would be a way to buy BitShares X somewhere somehow after the launch if they turn out to be a good system, the market will sort itself out. Maybe even someone will set up a gateway on the NXT AE :D


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: smoothie on July 08, 2014, 06:10:38 AM
Bitshares has been off the radar for a bit and I wanted to let you know that it is set to explode soon!!!!



Thank you for letting us know.

Now is this an actual coin or like a stock in a company?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: xeroc on July 08, 2014, 06:46:15 AM
Now is this an actual coin or like a stock in a company?
It's more like a share in the BitShares Ecosystem .. lots of innovation to come very soonish


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: bitcoinpaul on July 08, 2014, 08:29:39 AM
lots of innovation to come very soonish
Quote
MtGox CEO: We'll Have A New Statement Out 'Soon-ish'

 :o


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 08, 2014, 12:37:33 PM
BitShares X if it eventually is able to do what it says on the tin, will have a system that's more decentralised but with enough trust (knowing who will produce next block) that they can handle MasterCard/Visa volumes and process them incredibly rapidly. More importantly you will 'hopefully' be able to hold BitUSD or BitGold on a blockchain. So it's not a shitcoin, more like the - 'could change everything coin' so I guess actually you could call it 'the shit' coin :)

Did you confuse something?

This actually sounds like Nxt. ;)

 :D

Yeah sure, choose NXT - If you like a system that's >10X slower, >10X more expensive with <1/2 the features :P

http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F  

Check out the comparison chart - it's still a work in progress but I think BitShares' new DPOS Blockchain is superior.
(NXT is actually my third biggest holding after Bitcoin & BitShares related stuff though...)

Haha, you know that this table is of course in favor of BitShares? Well, obviously if considering the URI of the wiki.

It only lists features that exists BitShares but not those only available on Nxt. ;)
Recommended confirmation time is of course the same as both use the same underlying technology. Here, I stick to the original. :D

About the other features:
for Nxt:
Anonymous Transactions - next major feature release
Profit Sharing - next major feature release
Market Pegged Assets - next major feature release
for BitShares:
well, no release yet; we will see if they deliver => actually the table should show a big red NO ;)

when are these features to be released? are they already implemented and being used on active test nets? also, recommended confirmation time is not the same. even if you use one block confirmation, nxt blocks are produced every minutes as apposed to 15 seconds. there is very little latency in block production on the test net. block production could be sped up to 2 second interval.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: PL_CoinTrader on July 08, 2014, 12:46:43 PM
Have I understood correctly that BitShares is not decentralised? I don't want to spread FUD so please correct me if I understood this wrong. If it's true then how would you response to someone who critizises centralisation?
I'm mainly into crypto because of the idea of decentralisation. In fact I think that's the only reason why we need crypto. Why should I invest in a coin that is not really decentralised?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: xeroc on July 08, 2014, 12:57:38 PM
well, no release yet; we will see if they deliver => actually the table should show a big red NO ;)
how is that? They have a running testnet .. I'd say they will for sure release .. no idea when but probably sooner than you think!


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: xeroc on July 08, 2014, 01:02:13 PM
Have I understood correctly that BitShares is not decentralised? I don't want to spread FUD so please correct me if I understood this wrong. If it's true then how would you response to someone who critizises centralisation?
I'm mainly into crypto because of the idea of decentralisation. In fact I think that's the only reason why we need crypto. Why should I invest in a coin that is not really decentralised?
it is decentralized as the network is dezentralized as a p2p network .. the security model is different ... atm 101 delegates produce the blocks .. and only they can produce block .. so in terms of decentralized block production bitshares not word decentralized .. however: as a proof-of-stake 'coin' you can vote for your delegates .. if you have enough approvals you can set up a delegate by your own ..
the list of delegates is (in contrast to ripple) dynamic .. if a delegate stops producing blocks or does not include transactions (those are the only two things delegates can do to harm the network) they get 'fired' as they loose approval by the users (stakeholders, all participants with >0 stake) ...
the advantage is: in contrast to NXT (also with transparent forging) the delegate that generates the next block is deterministically defined (randomized per round - 1 delegate = 1 block per round) and as such the network can confirm transactions very rapidly .. last testnet ran several days without major issues with 10 secs blocks ..

I recommend to read at wiki.bitshares.org


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 08, 2014, 01:12:03 PM
Have I understood correctly that BitShares is not decentralised? I don't want to spread FUD so please correct me if I understood this wrong. If it's true then how would you response to someone who critizises centralisation?
I'm mainly into crypto because of the idea of decentralisation. In fact I think that's the only reason why we need crypto. Why should I invest in a coin that is not really decentralised?

It's a good question, earlier in this thread, there was a similar discussion with someone more involved in NXT, so this is the convo from there, but I'd wait for a more tech explanation from Clout too.

  
Cool, What would you say, in your opinion, is the best system in terms of decentralisation and performance out there at the moment?

My opinion would be called biased if I said it's NXT.
I see BitShares has achieved a pretty good decentralization level compared to Bitcoin.
Will it be good enough in the future? Only time can tell.
Certainly, 101 delegated nodes are far more difficult to compromise than just 2 biggest Bitcoin pools. It's not 100% decentralization, but I guess many people will find it decent enough to use.

Yeah I would agree with that.

I'm one of the people who think decentralisation is a means not an end. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3923.0

Any increased decentralisation starts to add significant cost and time delay to the network. For me it's about .Gov or the banks/corporations trying to interfere with my liberty. 'If' DPOS achieves security against that & attack/compromise, (Other than making me wealthy with a buyout) then I'm OK with that.

It means BitShares will have the most competitive blockchains, and I know most end customers generally want the best products at the best price. So we should be able to outperform both centralised systems and ones that are more decentralised.

Though I think there will still be a market for people who like more decentralised systems on principle.
 
   

If you want to read more about the system http://bitshares.org/delegated-proof-of-stake/

Edit: Yes read that link, it covers comparisons to all the other system in terms if 'decentralisation', attacks etc.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: PL_CoinTrader on July 08, 2014, 02:26:31 PM
Have I understood correctly that BitShares is not decentralised? I don't want to spread FUD so please correct me if I understood this wrong. If it's true then how would you response to someone who critizises centralisation?
I'm mainly into crypto because of the idea of decentralisation. In fact I think that's the only reason why we need crypto. Why should I invest in a coin that is not really decentralised?
it is decentralized as the network is dezentralized as a p2p network .. the security model is different ... atm 101 delegates produce the blocks .. and only they can produce block .. so in terms of decentralized block production bitshares not word decentralized .. however: as a proof-of-stake 'coin' you can vote for your delegates .. if you have enough approvals you can set up a delegate by your own ..
the list of delegates is (in contrast to ripple) dynamic .. if a delegate stops producing blocks or does not include transactions (those are the only two things delegates can do to harm the network) they get 'fired' as they loose approval by the users (stakeholders, all participants with >0 stake) ...
the advantage is: in contrast to NXT (also with transparent forging) the delegate that generates the next block is deterministically defined (randomized per round - 1 delegate = 1 block per round) and as such the network can confirm transactions very rapidly .. last testnet ran several days without major issues with 10 secs blocks ..

I recommend to read at wiki.bitshares.org

Sounds pretty interesting, I'll read a little bit about it.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: devphp on July 08, 2014, 02:31:41 PM
If you want to read more about the system http://bitshares.org/delegated-proof-of-stake/

Edit: Yes read that link, it covers comparisons to all the other system in terms if 'decentralisation', attacks etc.

That's a nice link, thank you.
In the section on NXT decentralization Daniel makes some assumptions, quoting:

Quote
2.5.3 Nxt

Nxt uses transparent forging where the next node is deterministically selected. It can be compared to using Delegated Proof of Stake where the only person you can delegate to is yourself and the frequency in which you have the opportunity to forge a block is directly related to your balance. In this sense Nxt is more decentralized than Peercoin and Bitcoin, but still suffers poor user participation due to security risks and the fact that most regular users do not leave their computers on all day to take advantage of the opportunity.

From this perspective we can conclude that the Nxt network is being secured by a small minority of the shareholders. In effect, if you don’t show up to vote you lose your vote. To resolve this issue some Nxt users pool their funds and trust a 3rd party to mine for them. This increases shareholder participation by being a form of Delegated Proof of Stake, but also risks their balance while they are participating in the pool.

In fact, there is no poor user participation in NXT. Analysis of the blockchain reveals that the total number of accounts generating new blocks in NXT is between 300 and 350. Which is better than 100 delegates in BitShares.

Here is the java code that can be used to calculate active (who have forged blocks) forgers in the NXT blockchain:

Code:
import java.sql.Connection;
import java.sql.DriverManager;
import java.sql.ResultSet;
import java.sql.SQLException;
import java.sql.Statement;
import java.util.ArrayList;
import java.util.HashMap;
import java.util.Iterator;

public class inspectDB {

        public static void runQuery(int startHeight, int endHeight) {

                Connection conn = null;

                String dbUrl = "jdbc:h2:nxt_db/nxt;DB_CLOSE_ON_EXIT=FALSE";
                dbUrl += ";DB_CLOSE_ON_EXIT=FALSE";

                try {

                        Class.forName("org.h2.Driver");

                        conn = DriverManager.getConnection(dbUrl, "sa", "sa");

                        Statement stmt = conn.createStatement();
                        // generator_public_key
                        ArrayList<String> pubgenkeys = new ArrayList<String>();
                        String stmtStr = "SELECT generator_public_key, height, timestamp, total_amount FROM block where total_amount >= 0 and height > "
                                        + startHeight + " and height < " + endHeight;
                        ResultSet selectRS = stmt.executeQuery(stmtStr);// total_amount
                        while (selectRS.next()) {
                                String a = selectRS.getString(1);
                                pubgenkeys.add(a);

                        }

                        Iterator<String> it = pubgenkeys.iterator();
                        HashMap<String, Integer> occ = new HashMap<String, Integer>();
                        while (it.hasNext()) {
                                String cur = it.next();
                                // System.out.println(cur);
                                if (occ.containsKey(cur)) {
                                        int last = occ.get(cur).intValue();
                                        occ.remove(cur);
                                        occ.put(cur, new Integer(last + 1));
                                } else
                                        occ.put(cur, 1);
                        }

                        int numBlocks = endHeight - startHeight;
                        int numAddr = occ.values().size();

                        System.out.println("startBlock  " + startHeight
                                        + " generated by # addresses : " + numAddr
                                        + " (numBlocks: " + numBlocks + ")");

                        conn.close();

                } catch (SQLException e) {
                        e.printStackTrace();
                } catch (ClassNotFoundException e) {

                        e.printStackTrace();
                } finally {
                        if (conn != null)
                                try {
                                        conn.close();
                                } catch (SQLException e) {
                                        e.printStackTrace();
                                }
                }

        }

        public static void main(String[] args) {
                int maxh = 200000;
                int step = 10000;
                for (int bh = 0; bh < maxh; bh += step) {
                        runQuery(bh, bh + step);
                }

        }
}



Also, in the last paragraph last sentence he says users risk their balance with a pool. No, they don't. The feature called Leased Forging doesn't require sending your coins to a pool. It only helps to lease your effective balance for forging. But your coins are all in your possession, nobody but you has access to them.

Other sections of that link may be checked also for doubtful information. I outlined two most outstanding... eh, inconsistencies :)


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 08, 2014, 03:12:32 PM
If you want to read more about the system http://bitshares.org/delegated-proof-of-stake/

Edit: Yes read that link, it covers comparisons to all the other system in terms if 'decentralisation', attacks etc.

That's a nice link, thank you.
In the section on NXT decentralization Daniel makes some assumptions, quoting:

Quote
2.5.3 Nxt

Nxt uses transparent forging where the next node is deterministically selected. It can be compared to using Delegated Proof of Stake where the only person you can delegate to is yourself and the frequency in which you have the opportunity to forge a block is directly related to your balance. In this sense Nxt is more decentralized than Peercoin and Bitcoin, but still suffers poor user participation due to security risks and the fact that most regular users do not leave their computers on all day to take advantage of the opportunity.

From this perspective we can conclude that the Nxt network is being secured by a small minority of the shareholders. In effect, if you don’t show up to vote you lose your vote. To resolve this issue some Nxt users pool their funds and trust a 3rd party to mine for them. This increases shareholder participation by being a form of Delegated Proof of Stake, but also risks their balance while they are participating in the pool.

In fact, there is no poor user participation in NXT. Analysis of the blockchain reveals that the total number of accounts generating new blocks in NXT is between 300 and 350. Which is better than 100 delegates in BitShares.

Here is the java code that can be used to calculate active (who have forged blocks) forgers in the NXT blockchain:

Code:
import java.sql.Connection;
import java.sql.DriverManager;
import java.sql.ResultSet;
import java.sql.SQLException;
import java.sql.Statement;
import java.util.ArrayList;
import java.util.HashMap;
import java.util.Iterator;

public class inspectDB {

        public static void runQuery(int startHeight, int endHeight) {

                Connection conn = null;

                String dbUrl = "jdbc:h2:nxt_db/nxt;DB_CLOSE_ON_EXIT=FALSE";
                dbUrl += ";DB_CLOSE_ON_EXIT=FALSE";

                try {

                        Class.forName("org.h2.Driver");

                        conn = DriverManager.getConnection(dbUrl, "sa", "sa");

                        Statement stmt = conn.createStatement();
                        // generator_public_key
                        ArrayList<String> pubgenkeys = new ArrayList<String>();
                        String stmtStr = "SELECT generator_public_key, height, timestamp, total_amount FROM block where total_amount >= 0 and height > "
                                        + startHeight + " and height < " + endHeight;
                        ResultSet selectRS = stmt.executeQuery(stmtStr);// total_amount
                        while (selectRS.next()) {
                                String a = selectRS.getString(1);
                                pubgenkeys.add(a);

                        }

                        Iterator<String> it = pubgenkeys.iterator();
                        HashMap<String, Integer> occ = new HashMap<String, Integer>();
                        while (it.hasNext()) {
                                String cur = it.next();
                                // System.out.println(cur);
                                if (occ.containsKey(cur)) {
                                        int last = occ.get(cur).intValue();
                                        occ.remove(cur);
                                        occ.put(cur, new Integer(last + 1));
                                } else
                                        occ.put(cur, 1);
                        }

                        int numBlocks = endHeight - startHeight;
                        int numAddr = occ.values().size();

                        System.out.println("startBlock  " + startHeight
                                        + " generated by # addresses : " + numAddr
                                        + " (numBlocks: " + numBlocks + ")");

                        conn.close();

                } catch (SQLException e) {
                        e.printStackTrace();
                } catch (ClassNotFoundException e) {

                        e.printStackTrace();
                } finally {
                        if (conn != null)
                                try {
                                        conn.close();
                                } catch (SQLException e) {
                                        e.printStackTrace();
                                }
                }

        }

        public static void main(String[] args) {
                int maxh = 200000;
                int step = 10000;
                for (int bh = 0; bh < maxh; bh += step) {
                        runQuery(bh, bh + step);
                }

        }
}



Also, in the last paragraph last sentence he says users risk their balance with a pool. No, they don't. The feature called Leased Forging doesn't require sending your coins to a pool. It only helps to lease your effective balance for forging. But your coins are all in your possession, nobody but you has access to them.

Other sections of that link may be checked also for doubtful information. I outlined two most outstanding... eh, inconsistencies :)

Hi ya, yeah I like NXT, Yes I agree, the part about your leased forging needs to be updated. But there's a big difference between 300 or 3000 random accounts and 101 elected delegates. Those 300 accounts could link to very few people.

In BitShares a delegate position is very well remunerated. So people will be fighting over those positions to convince and prove to shareholders they are worthy. So we may well have 101 people spread across the four corners of the globe if shareholders think that's best for the DAC. They can also be voted off easily and even by the system if they delay blocks, don't include transactions etc. it's a very different proposition.

But I'm one of the least technical supporters, I think others could explain it better.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: devphp on July 08, 2014, 03:33:17 PM
Hi ya, yeah I like NXT, Yes I agree, the part about your leased forging needs to be updated. But there's a big difference between 300 or 3000 random accounts and 101 elected delegates. Those 300 accounts could link to very few people.

In BitShares a delegate position is very well remunerated. So people will be fighting over those positions to convince and prove to shareholders they are worthy. So we may well have 101 people spread across the four corners of the globe if shareholders think that's best for the DAC. They can also be voted off easily and even by the system if they delay blocks, don't include transactions etc. it's a very different proposition.

But I'm one of the least technical supporters, I think others could explain it better.

You don't quite understand.

300-350 is the number of forgers who have successfully forged at least one block. But the number of forgers is larger than that, some are just not lucky yet. The number of successful forgers gradually increases with time as the distribution gets more even. For example, 6 months ago there were only 200 accounts that successfully forged blocks (you can verify that with the java code above), now there are 300-350.

There is no reliable way to calculate how many accounts are forging, you can only calculate how many have been successful at that by checking their public keys in the block chain.

Not sure what you mean by 'those 300 accounts could be linked to very few people'. If you mean the Sybil attack, well, can't delegates in BitShares also be linked to very few people? Can't one person run a few nodes? It's not like BitShares ask for government ID and allows to run only one :)

I understand the way it works in Bitshares now. Just explaining that that link by Daniel has a few things that need to be corrected.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 08, 2014, 03:58:34 PM
Not sure what you mean by 'those 300 accounts could be linked to very few people'. If you mean the Sybil attack, well, can't delegates in BitShares also be linked to very few people? Can't one person run a few nodes? It's not like BitShares ask for government ID and allows to run only one :)

I understand the way it works in Bitshares now. Just explaining that that link by Daniel has a few things that need to be corrected.

Cool. In BitShares they can only run more than one of the 101 delegate positions if shareholders are ok with that/they convince shareholders they are different people. Producing ID and various other assurances aren't out the question if that's what shareholders feel they need. When CAP & remuneration get big enough, they might even end up voting for people's whose integrity is extremely high. People the majority trust in the 2.0 space/Ron Paul/Who knows.

Personally I would probably vote for Andreas Antonopoulos to be a delegate if he wanted to for example, & once it's paying well, for little work, mainly high trust, maybe someone like him would be up for it etc.




Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: ChuckOne on July 08, 2014, 06:35:13 PM
Cool. In BitShares they can only run more than one of the 101 delegate positions if shareholders are ok with that/they convince shareholders they are different people. Producing ID and various other assurances aren't out the question if that's what shareholders feel they need. When CAP & remuneration get big enough, they might even end up voting for people's whose integrity is extremely high. People the majority trust in the 2.0 space/Ron Paul/Who knows.

Personally I would probably vote for Andreas Antonopoulos to be a delegate if he wanted to for example, & once it's paying well, for little work, mainly high trust, maybe someone like him would be up for it etc.

I concur with devphp. No anonymity possible here?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: xeroc on July 08, 2014, 06:49:07 PM
I concur with devphp. No anonymity possible here?
It is possible .. but difficult to get enough votes/trust


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 08, 2014, 07:50:06 PM
Cool. In BitShares they can only run more than one of the 101 delegate positions if shareholders are ok with that/they convince shareholders they are different people. Producing ID and various other assurances aren't out the question if that's what shareholders feel they need. When CAP & remuneration get big enough, they might even end up voting for people's whose integrity is extremely high. People the majority trust in the 2.0 space/Ron Paul/Who knows.

Personally I would probably vote for Andreas Antonopoulos to be a delegate if he wanted to for example, & once it's paying well, for little work, mainly high trust, maybe someone like him would be up for it etc.

I concur with devphp. No anonymity possible here?

It's possible, some may make a valid case for saying,  'if a few delegates are anonymous they can't be targeted or compromised.'

I'd vote for known delegates, located in a range of jurisdictions and again personally I'd be voting for people who have established reputations of trust and integrity in this space/their field as well. But it's up to the majority of shareholders in each DAC.




Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: xeroc on July 09, 2014, 06:38:55 AM
It's possible, some may make a valid case for saying,  'if a few delegates are anonymous they can't be targeted or compromised.'
You can only compromise the person maintaing the delegate ..
the machines wich run the delegates can be hidden behind tor or vpn proxies .. they are just broadcasting signed blocks ..
there are lot's of ways possible to hide those for net getting ddos'd


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FriendsOfBitshares on July 10, 2014, 07:12:38 PM
Cool. In BitShares they can only run more than one of the 101 delegate positions if shareholders are ok with that/they convince shareholders they are different people. Producing ID and various other assurances aren't out the question if that's what shareholders feel they need. When CAP & remuneration get big enough, they might even end up voting for people's whose integrity is extremely high. People the majority trust in the 2.0 space/Ron Paul/Who knows.

Personally I would probably vote for Andreas Antonopoulos to be a delegate if he wanted to for example, & once it's paying well, for little work, mainly high trust, maybe someone like him would be up for it etc.

I concur with devphp. No anonymity possible here?

There is as much anonymity as one desires and no more.  Any crypto system can have no anonymity if the person decides to reveal who they are or they messages they've sent etc.  Block-signers aka delegates choose to become elected over the identity they publicly put forth.  This could be their real name or someone else's name.

So if for whatever reason the stake holders are wanting everyone to reveal their true identity to become elected then perhaps it would remove a lot of anonymity.  Realize though that the delegates could just as well choose to not reveal themselves and 101 delegates would be chosen anyway.

The fact of the matter is that a directionless equally weighted p2p network does not scale very well.  Thus we have DPOS and the future.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: ChuckOne on July 10, 2014, 07:24:39 PM
Lol?

So, it is basically Nxt. Thanks again for clarifying.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FriendsOfBitshares on July 10, 2014, 07:48:27 PM
Lol?

So, it is basically Nxt. Thanks again for clarifying.

I'm not sure what is humorous or why you think it is "basically NXT".  For starters BitShares isn't attempting to be a currency.  After the exchange is released, the toolkit will be released.  The toolkit will allow creation of currencies, but there isn't a core currency being hyped like NXT.  Bitshares will also be completely open source from the beginning allowing a true free market approach by giving anyone the ability to fork.

Bitshares is an ecosystem.  NXT and Bitshares have more overlap than almost all other projects, but NXT is more like other coins than Bitshares.  Bitshares is unique in their approach.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: ChuckOne on July 10, 2014, 07:53:18 PM
Point is the consensus algo is the same to an extreme extend.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 10, 2014, 08:30:08 PM
Point is the consensus algo is the same to an extreme extend.

The consensus mechanism is approval voting which Nxt does not use. Please see the following thread from the forum:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5205.90


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: ChuckOne on July 10, 2014, 08:32:38 PM
Call it approval voting, call it DPoS, call it delegates, we use different names for it but it is the same in essence.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 10, 2014, 08:37:22 PM
Call it approval voting, call it DPoS, call it delegates, we use different names for it but it is the same in essence.

approval voting is an actual type of voting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approval_voting. bitshares and nxt do not use the same voting algo so they do not use the same consensus algo. yes they both use delegated proof of stake (i think nxt calls it leasing) but  the way active delegates/ active forgers are determined is different. originally bitshares was going to use up and down votes for delegates. i don't know the specifics of how forgers are chosen in nxt.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FriendsOfBitshares on July 10, 2014, 09:09:55 PM
Point is the consensus algo is the same to an extreme extend.

 I think that the POS variants used by NXT and Bitshares are close enough that we should consider each other allies.  The real opponent at this point is BTC and derivatives. 

NEM/NXT/Bitshares are what I personally have been following.  I'd follow Peercoin too, but I barely keep up with everything going on as it is.  Bitshares though isn't a currency and is a ecosystem/framework to create new things, in addition to the first release which will be the Bitshares X exchange.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: liondani on July 11, 2014, 01:33:32 AM
Hi ya, yeah I like NXT, Yes I agree, the part about your leased forging needs to be updated. But there's a big difference between 300 or 3000 random accounts and 101 elected delegates. Those 300 accounts could link to very few people.

In BitShares a delegate position is very well remunerated. So people will be fighting over those positions to convince and prove to shareholders they are worthy. So we may well have 101 people spread across the four corners of the globe if shareholders think that's best for the DAC. They can also be voted off easily and even by the system if they delay blocks, don't include transactions etc. it's a very different proposition.

But I'm one of the least technical supporters, I think others could explain it better.

You don't quite understand.

300-350 is the number of forgers who have successfully forged at least one block. But the number of forgers is larger than that, some are just not lucky yet. The number of successful forgers gradually increases with time as the distribution gets more even. For example, 6 months ago there were only 200 accounts that successfully forged blocks (you can verify that with the java code above), now there are 300-350.

There is no reliable way to calculate how many accounts are forging, you can only calculate how many have been successful at that by checking their public keys in the block chain.

Not sure what you mean by 'those 300 accounts could be linked to very few people'. If you mean the Sybil attack, well, can't delegates in BitShares also be linked to very few people? Can't one person run a few nodes? It's not like BitShares ask for government ID and allows to run only one :)

I understand the way it works in Bitshares now. Just explaining that that link by Daniel has a few things that need to be corrected.





Bytemaster (BitShares founder, Daniel Larimer) made an very interesting analysis that will answer all of us a lot of questions about the pros and cons of every system... It is worth reading...


http://bitshares.org/decentralization_cost.png
Green is Income
Yellow is Profit
Blue is Cost

Assuming a fixed validation cost per transaction and a fixed fee per transaction, there is a limit to the amount of decentralization that can take place. 

Assuming the validation cost exactly equals the fee a network is completely centralized and can only afford one validator.
Assuming the fee is 100x the cost of validation then the network can support 100 validators.

What you will quickly see is that systems like Nxt and Peercoin must have very excessive fees if they would like to maintain the illusion that everyone can be a validator and earn fees at scale.    What this means for Nxt / Peercoin is that anyone with less than 1% stake cannot validate profitably unless their fees are higher than our DPOS chain. 

So if these chains assume 100 is to centralized and start promoting they have 1000 validators then their fees must be 10x.  If they grew to be the size of bitcoin ($10 B) then only those with $1M worth of coin could validate profitably and most would consider that an elite club.    If they reduce the minimum stake to be a validator to $1000, then their fees would be 10,000 times higher than our fees.   

Now we assume that every one with less than the amount required to validate doesn't participate and we assume a "reasonable" distribution of wealth, you will quickly see that unless they have insane fees, there will only be a handful of people with enough stake to validate profitably. 

What we can conclude from this is that the only way for POS to work is to delegate it.  In the case of Nxt they can pool their stake by some means and ultimately this will end up like DPOS prior to approval voting with a variable number of delegates.   Those doing the delegating wouldn't actually receive any income like you see with mining pools because the validation expenses will be consuming the vast majority of the transaction fees.

End result is that decentralization has a cost proportional to the number of validators and that costs do not disappear.  At scale these costs will centralize any system that does not support delegation.   We should design this kind of centralization in from the beginning so that it can be properly managed and controlled by the users instead of evolving in some adhoc manner as an unintended consequence.

 



Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: devphp on July 11, 2014, 05:15:15 AM
Bytemaster (BitShares founder, Daniel Larimer) made an very interesting analysis that will answer all of us a lot of questions about the pros and cons of every system... It is worth reading...

If this 'analysis' is as objective as the issues I outlined here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=664146.msg7736134#msg7736134
I wouldn't bother with reading it. Besides, it's hard to predict anything in cryptos even if you try to stay objective, everything changes blazing fast.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FriendsOfBitshares on July 11, 2014, 05:46:04 AM
Bytemaster (BitShares founder, Daniel Larimer) made an very interesting analysis that will answer all of us a lot of questions about the pros and cons of every system... It is worth reading...

If this 'analysis' is as objective as the issues I outlined here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=664146.msg7736134#msg7736134
I wouldn't bother with reading it. Besides, it's hard to predict anything in cryptos even if you try to stay objective, everything changes blazing fast.

Here is the simple explanation.  If I have a relatively small portion of NXT I will very rarely mine a block.  Therefore, for it to be worth my while, the fees have to be extra high to make up for this.  So for the NXT system work and maintain decentralization, transaction fees have to be grossly inflated or the network has to rely on the good will of the owners of forging nodes.

So the short short of it is NXT/Peercoin need inflated fees to maintain decentralization. 


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: devphp on July 11, 2014, 06:00:53 AM
Here is the simple explanation.  If I have a relatively small portion of NXT I will very rarely mine a block.  Therefore, for it to be worth my while, the fees have to be extra high to make up for this.  So for the NXT system work and maintain decentralization, transaction fees have to be grossly inflated or the network has to rely on the good will of the owners of forging nodes.

So the short short of it is NXT/Peercoin need inflated fees to maintain decentralization. 

It depends on a lot of factors.
Renting a VPS costs $3-5/month (that's the total monthly cost of operating a node that you can forge on).
Your profit from forging needs to be above that for forging to be justified.

But since we don't know how much 1 NXT will cost, how many txs the NXT network will handle, we can't calculate how much in fees forging will bring, and how much in fiat that will translate to. It's all guessing at this point, it all depends on demand for crypto currencies from general population. Hence, no analysis is possible with any reliable degree of accuracy.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: theone1e on July 11, 2014, 06:52:47 AM
Waiting too long time,it is not responsible for investors.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: XbladeX on July 11, 2014, 07:26:11 AM
i got some Btishares but i can be even sure that price can even fall acordingg to donate exchange :)...
Overal graph looks on down trend to me...
And i know many sytuations where IPO people were losing money...
1st better example maid safe coin IPO 5000 sat now about 3600 sat


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: xeroc on July 11, 2014, 07:27:46 AM
i got some Btishares but i can be even sure that price can even fall acordingg to donate exchange :)...
Overal graph looks on down trend to me...
And i know many sytuations where IPO people were losing money...
1st better example maid safe coin IPO 5000 sat now about 3600 sat
You are not seriously comparing BitShares with Midsafe, do you?

Prior to investing there should always be investigation!


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: XbladeX on July 11, 2014, 08:28:57 AM
i got some Btishares but i can be even sure that price can even fall acordingg to donate exchange :)...
Overal graph looks on down trend to me...
And i know many sytuations where IPO people were losing money...
1st better example maid safe coin IPO 5000 sat now about 3600 sat
You are not seriously comparing BitShares with Midsafe, do you?

Prior to investing there should always be investigation!

I am talking about IPOs at all they are not guarante price no mater in what you invest - i like technology behind but...
Bithsares raped people in shares graph  and chart is collapsing today with demand it can go high it can go down also. 150BTC per share stake that will be 10x loss  if they would buy today...

Anyway this is best fair IPO i have ever seen serious. - cut overhype part in march

i refer to title: "Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price" title like that is red light :-)
anywya i back up technology more than price.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: xeroc on July 11, 2014, 09:57:44 AM
I am talking about IPOs at all they are not guarante price no mater in what you invest - i like technology behind but...
Bithsares raped people in shares graph  and chart is collapsing today with demand it can go high it can go down also. 150BTC per share stake that will be 10x loss  if they would buy today...

Anyway this is best fair IPO i have ever seen serious. - cut overhype part in march

i refer to title: "Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price" title like that is red light :-)
anywya i back up technology more than price.
neither PTS nor AGS are IPOs .. PTS is an altcoin while AGS were always declared to be *donations*!
No IPO took place at BitShares .. e v e r!


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FriendsOfBitshares on July 11, 2014, 12:11:42 PM
Here is the simple explanation.  If I have a relatively small portion of NXT I will very rarely mine a block.  Therefore, for it to be worth my while, the fees have to be extra high to make up for this.  So for the NXT system work and maintain decentralization, transaction fees have to be grossly inflated or the network has to rely on the good will of the owners of forging nodes.

So the short short of it is NXT/Peercoin need inflated fees to maintain decentralization. 

It depends on a lot of factors.
Renting a VPS costs $3-5/month (that's the total monthly cost of operating a node that you can forge on).
Your profit from forging needs to be above that for forging to be justified.

But since we don't know how much 1 NXT will cost, how many txs the NXT network will handle, we can't calculate how much in fees forging will bring, and how much in fiat that will translate to. It's all guessing at this point, it all depends on demand for crypto currencies from general population. Hence, no analysis is possible with any reliable degree of accuracy.

No, the average transaction fees can easily be obtained given you are skillful enough.  Someone posted code to walk the blockchain and find the number of wallets that had forged one block.  It would not be hard to take that same code and find the average transaction fee per block found.  The average expectation could then easily be found if someone cared enough to go figure it out.  Accuracy of the analysis could also be measured if one had the proper math skills.

Your analysis however assumes that the labor involved in the upkeep of a node is 0.  Most people value their time to some degree. 

I'm not knocking NXT.  I think they've done a lot of neat things and are continuing to do neat things.  Just because no one cares enough to do the actual full on analysis doesn't make the hypothesis invalid.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: devphp on July 11, 2014, 12:19:12 PM
It would not be hard to take that same code and find the average transaction fee per block found.

I am not talking about average fees per block. I am talking about how much that would be in fiat in the future, we don't know that. We don't know how much fees per block will be in the future. All this 'analysis' based on past events is not relevant. It could well justify renting a VPS, labor is not a lot, 30 mins per month(?), NXT is already quite stable. Especially funny if someone projects fees based on their testnet, as in the case of BitShares.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: liondani on July 11, 2014, 12:58:07 PM
i got some Btishares but i can be even sure that price can even fall acordingg to donate exchange :)...
Overal graph looks on down trend to me...
And i know many sytuations where IPO people were losing money...
1st better example maid safe coin IPO 5000 sat now about 3600 sat

Exactly it looks like a downtrend... but in reality it is not !!!
Let me explain. Buying BitShares-PTS you don't own only BitShares-PTS but a percentage in future DACs (Decetralized Autononomus Companys)
Imagine someone has bought 1000 BitShares-PTS at 0.014 BTC (14 BTC investment) on Januar ( https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/119 (https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/119) )  and now he has "lost" 50% because the price right now is at 0.007 BTC....
HE DIDN'T LOOSE because he owns now about +650000 BTSX (BitSharesX coins that works with DPOS chain calculated with 2 billion suply) and NOT ONLY the first 1000 PTS...
That means (1000 PTS * 0.007 BTC) + (650000 BTSX * 0.0000170 BTC) = 7 BTC + 11,05 BTC = a total of 18,05 BTC that means a net profit 4.05 BTC (about 30%)
and we don't even have included the profits from a percentage in future DACs !!!  And don't forget that BTSX price is (in my opinion) undervalued because investors are still not very well informed and right now
the "product" is still in the testing phase (Dry Run 8)  https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5523.0 (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5523.0)


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: schnötzel on July 11, 2014, 01:46:24 PM
"..HE DIDN'T LOOSE because he owns now about +650000 BTSX (BitSharesX coins that works with DPOS chain calculated with 2 billion suply) and NOT ONLY the first 1000 PTS...:"

 ???

If i own some bitshares-pts, how can i get the bitsharesx?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: liondani on July 11, 2014, 02:14:02 PM
"..HE DIDN'T LOOSE because he owns now about +650000 BTSX (BitSharesX coins that works with DPOS chain calculated with 2 billion suply) and NOT ONLY the first 1000 PTS...:"

 ???

If i own some bitshares-pts, how can i get the bitsharesx?

If you had your BitShares-PTS at 28 Februar 2014 (the snapshot took place that day and honored all PTS holders) you are a BitShares-BTSX owner too!
If not you will receive your shares from future DACs (until now no snapshots! BitShares-Music,BitShares-ME,BitShares-Insurance,BitShares-DNS and many more in the list to come very soon !!!)

As soon as BitSharesX final chain is out it will be easy to get your BTSX importing your private keys from the "old" PTS wallet...
It will be very easy, more details when BTSX is officialy out (now on testing phase). For now BTSX are available only for trading (not withdrawals or deposits) at bter https://bter.com/trade/btsx_btc (https://bter.com/trade/btsx_btc)
and btc38 http://www.btc38.com/trade_en.html?mk_type=btc&btc38_trade_coin_name=btsx (http://www.btc38.com/trade_en.html?mk_type=btc&btc38_trade_coin_name=btsx)


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: schnötzel on July 11, 2014, 02:19:18 PM
Thanks (even i´m more confused as before  :D)


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: liondani on July 11, 2014, 02:38:28 PM
Thanks (even i´m more confused as before  :D)

A good place to start  ;)  :)

http://bitshares.org/faq/ (http://bitshares.org/faq/)

http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Main_Page (http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Main_Page)


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: schnötzel on July 11, 2014, 02:55:19 PM
Thanks.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 11, 2014, 09:14:59 PM
Here is the simple explanation.  If I have a relatively small portion of NXT I will very rarely mine a block.  Therefore, for it to be worth my while, the fees have to be extra high to make up for this.  So for the NXT system work and maintain decentralization, transaction fees have to be grossly inflated or the network has to rely on the good will of the owners of forging nodes.

So the short short of it is NXT/Peercoin need inflated fees to maintain decentralization. 

It depends on a lot of factors.
Renting a VPS costs $3-5/month (that's the total monthly cost of operating a node that you can forge on).
Your profit from forging needs to be above that for forging to be justified.

But since we don't know how much 1 NXT will cost, how many txs the NXT network will handle, we can't calculate how much in fees forging will bring, and how much in fiat that will translate to. It's all guessing at this point, it all depends on demand for crypto currencies from general population. Hence, no analysis is possible with any reliable degree of accuracy.

we know how much the network can handle. 0.5 tps to 3.4 given the current block limit. Maybe you can raise the limit but you certainly won't be able to run a full node on a vps for $3-5/month. Bitshares is attempting to scale to visa transaction loads of 10,000 tps. I don't see nxt scaling very well. The analysis isn't really about nxt vs bitshares, its about the centralization that naturally develops as the network expands. Whether there are 100 nodes producing blocks or there are 350 increasing the tps will increase the cost of running a full node to the point that multiple nodes will be controlled by the same individual or group. Dpos doesn't pretend that block production will not be centralized and instead designs that centralizationinto the system. Control of the network is still decentralized among the shareholders of the network, who effortlessly secure the network from arbitrary control. The greatest form of decentralization is free market competition which is the selection process for active delegates.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: Fernandez on July 12, 2014, 05:11:14 AM
You mean the bitshares X that was supposed to be released back in February?  The one where, everyone like you bought up PTS from people like me to get it before the snap shot but then never got anything for it?  That bitshares X?  Getting burned once wasn't enough, you need to come back for more?  

Anyways, as that guy said, there is little reason to argue about this.  PTS is currently trading at 0.0069BTC on Cryptsy, we can all just come back in a month or two and see what new low it has achieved.

At least you managed to get in their private party. I am quite regular on this forum and completely missed it.

Thats because the forum has been flooded with junk. BitShares was announced a year ago. you can still donate funds to the ecosystem through  BitShares AGS  (http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/BitShares_AGS). BitShares has the longest and most open funding model of any of the next generation projects. I suggest you acquire AGS while they are still cheap and available. The AGS crowdfunding ends in less than two weeks.

I know you can invest now. It was devious how you rushed to allot yourselves the main product.
Allot yourselves quickly, then ask for money for the other 2nd rate products, excellent model.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 12, 2014, 05:30:33 AM
You mean the bitshares X that was supposed to be released back in February?  The one where, everyone like you bought up PTS from people like me to get it before the snap shot but then never got anything for it?  That bitshares X?  Getting burned once wasn't enough, you need to come back for more?  

Anyways, as that guy said, there is little reason to argue about this.  PTS is currently trading at 0.0069BTC on Cryptsy, we can all just come back in a month or two and see what new low it has achieved.

At least you managed to get in their private party. I am quite regular on this forum and completely missed it.

Thats because the forum has been flooded with junk. BitShares was announced a year ago. you can still donate funds to the ecosystem through  BitShares AGS  (http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/BitShares_AGS). BitShares has the longest and most open funding model of any of the next generation projects. I suggest you acquire AGS while they are still cheap and available. The AGS crowdfunding ends in less than two weeks.

I know you can invest now. It was devious how you rushed to allot yourselves the main product.
Allot yourselves quickly, then ask for money for the other 2nd rate products, excellent model.

PTS had already been mining a while and AGS had been running nearly 60 days by the time of the snapshot. It raised a few thousand BTC so it was one of the most public, longest & successful allotments to date.

This 'main product' you pretend they privately/quickly allotted themselves is pre-trading now on BTC38 & bter under the symbol 'BTSX' for circa 34000 BTC CAP! You can buy in now for less than what they were paying at the snapshot! Plus you haven't had to have your money tied up since Feb!?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: devphp on July 12, 2014, 05:32:07 AM
@clout,

I see your point, but it's not about how much the network will be able to handle, it's about how much it will need to handle. I don't see the need for 10000 txs/sec, those numbers cannot be achieved without centralization, that's true. But I don't see such wide adoption of cryptos in the future that would necessitate these numbers. Visa and Mastercard are not going anywhere.

Basically, getting to $10 bln combined marketcap for all cryptos took 5 years, getting to $100 bln combined marketcap will take another 5 years, unless, of course hyperinflation makes all those $$$ fiat numbers irrelevant. This means that there is no need to artificially centralize design to achieve a very high tx/sec capacity, if that capacity is not going to be used even at 5%, while the centralization may seem unfavorable to many investors.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 12, 2014, 05:32:30 AM
You mean the bitshares X that was supposed to be released back in February?  The one where, everyone like you bought up PTS from people like me to get it before the snap shot but then never got anything for it?  That bitshares X?  Getting burned once wasn't enough, you need to come back for more?  

Anyways, as that guy said, there is little reason to argue about this.  PTS is currently trading at 0.0069BTC on Cryptsy, we can all just come back in a month or two and see what new low it has achieved.

At least you managed to get in their private party. I am quite regular on this forum and completely missed it.

Thats because the forum has been flooded with junk. BitShares was announced a year ago. you can still donate funds to the ecosystem through  BitShares AGS  (http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/BitShares_AGS). BitShares has the longest and most open funding model of any of the next generation projects. I suggest you acquire AGS while they are still cheap and available. The AGS crowdfunding ends in less than two weeks.

I know you can invest now. It was devious how you rushed to allot yourselves the main product.
Allot yourselves quickly, then ask for money for the other 2nd rate products, excellent model.

You do realize that in the same way you see the proliferation of altcoins you will see the same phenomenon occur with alt-companies that utilize the bitshares  toolkit and the DPOS blockchain. If you want a piece of every alt-company to come out in the next few years than buying AGS and PTS is a very good move. If you want to purchase stake in Bitshares X you can do so at at a lower price than people paid for it prior to the February snapshot on bter.com and btc38.com. Bitshares X is currently trading at a market cap of a little less than $25 million. That is a steal, if you ask me.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 12, 2014, 05:50:01 AM
@clout,

I see your point, but it's not about how much the network will be able to handle, it's about how much it will need to handle. I don't see the need for 10000 txs/sec, those numbers cannot be achieved without centralization, that's true. But I don't see such wide adoption of cryptos in the future that would necessitate these numbers. Visa and Mastercard are not going anywhere.

Basically, getting to $10 bln combined marketcap for all cryptos took 5 years, getting to $100 bln combined marketcap will take another 5 years, unless, of course hyperinflation makes all those $$$ fiat numbers irrelevant. This means that there is no need to artificially centralize design to achieve a very high tx/sec capacity, if that capacity is not going to be used even at 5%, while the centralization may seem unfavorable to many investors.

Guys just offering user issued assets like NXT, BC, XCP + many others will be fine with lower tps for a while. But BitShares X will also be offering currency, commodity & stock trading using market-pegged bitassets, & even though they will be split across multiple chains, those are each trillion dollar markets with high volumes. So their scalable, high performance, low cost DPOS blockchains are a necessity, not a luxury imo.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: devphp on July 12, 2014, 05:56:06 AM
Guys offering user issued assets like NXT, BC, XCP + many others, will be fine with lower tps for a while. But BitShares X will be offering currency, commodity & stock trading using market-pegged bitassets, & even though they will be split across multiple chains, those are each trillion dollar markets with high volumes. Even minor success in penetrating them will require very high performance, low cost blockchains.

Why do you think it will be trillion dollar markets? Trillion dollar markets means institutional investors are going to enter those. I don't see institutional investors enter unregulated exchanges. Exchanges are either regulated or not. If it's the former - it's centralized, then what's the difference with regular centralized stock exchanges? If it's the latter, then institutional investors won't touch it with a ten-foot pole.

$100 bln. combined marketcap in 5 years is a realistic number in my opinion, but that means the combined tx/sec capacity required will be no more than 100 (and that's for all cryptos combined). I fail to see how trillion dollars can pour into unregulated exchanges. Unless, like I said above, hyperinflation takes place and fiat depreciates hundreds of percentage points per year. But in that case, people will rather go to barter than to crypto currencies.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 12, 2014, 06:02:01 AM
Guys offering user issued assets like NXT, BC, XCP + many others, will be fine with lower tps for a while. But BitShares X will be offering currency, commodity & stock trading using market-pegged bitassets, & even though they will be split across multiple chains, those are each trillion dollar markets with high volumes. Even minor success in penetrating them will require very high performance, low cost blockchains.

Why do you think it will be trillion dollar markets? Trillion dollar markets means institutional investors are going to enter those. I don't see institutional investors enter unregulated exchanges. Exchanges are either regulated or not. If it's the former - it's centralized, then what's the difference with regular centralized stock exchanges? If it's the latter, then institutional investors won't touch it with a ten-foot pole.

$100 bln. combined marketcap in 5 years is a realistic number in my opinion, but that means the combines tx/sec capacity required will be no more than 100 (and that's for all cryptos combined). I fail to see how trillion dollars can pour into unregulated exchanges. Unless, like I said above, hyperinflation takes place and fiat depreciates hundreds of percentage points per year. But in that case, people will rather go to barter than to crypto currencies.

This is my opinion I've already summarised below,

'Given the current global financial instability, geopolitical tensions & high levels of government debt, holding sizeable deposits of fiat, stocks or commodities is becoming increasingly risky within the current financial system. Therefore, BitShares X may need very little real-world proving under its belt, before it is seen by some very big players as an appealing hedge for a portion of their portfolio. Indeed should those centralised risk factors get worse or even materialise - such as significant deposit confiscations - BitShares X will be in a dominant position to displace a large part of a multi-trillion dollar industry virtually overnight.

In the West they're also discussing various forms of IRA confiscations, bond exit fees, high taxes and of course asset confiscation. So there are a lot of factors that could push high volume traders and even some institutions who wish to remain competitive & protect their clients funds onto deregulated exchanges.

Potential risks in the current system that could positively affect the rapid adoption of BitShares X

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-16/fed-prepares-bond-fund-runs-looking-imposing-bond-exit-fees-gates
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-15/these-offshore-tax-havens-may-be-hazardous-your-deposit-confiscation-health
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-26/nirp-strikes-spain-create-tax-bank-deposits
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-07/guest-post-don%E2%80%99t-dismiss-possibility-gold-confiscation
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-11/land-rising-bail-deposit-confiscation-coming-japan-next
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-29/ira-confiscation-its-happening
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-05/guest-post-short-history-currency-swaps-and-why-asset-confiscation-inevitable

Significant events just this week..

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-10/genius-imf-pronounces-bulgarias-banks-safe-just-2-weeks-bank-run
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-09/germany-blesses-bail-deposit-confiscation-plan-failing-eu-banks
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-09/portugals-largest-bank-misses-bond-payment-bonds-collapse
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-10/new-laws-allow-government-seize-savings-deposits-during-crisis


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 12, 2014, 06:05:49 AM
@clout,

I see your point, but it's not about how much the network will be able to handle, it's about how much it will need to handle. I don't see the need for 10000 txs/sec, those numbers cannot be achieved without centralization, that's true. But I don't see such wide adoption of cryptos in the future that would necessitate these numbers. Basically, getting to $10 bln combined marketcap for all cryptos took 5 years, getting to $100 bln combined marketcap will take another 5 years, unless, of course hyperinflation makes all those $$$ fiat numbers irrelevant.

I think you underestimate how rapidly things will change because you are not looking at these networks as companies. Each of these networks including Bitcoin and Nxt, offer the same services as centralized companies and at a fraction of their current price. Bitshare X is looking to be a bank and exchange that can compete with largest banks in the world including JP morgan and Bank of America, by allowing for faster money transfers, lower fees, and substantially higher interest rates (5%). The user experience offered by BitShares X over the course of the next couple years, given the advent of crypto-currency atms, will be far greater than current banks. And given that it is a global derivatives trading platform it will need to be able to scale to these levels.  (Also important to note that because bitshares x is 200% reserve bank, its market capitalization must be at least 3 times the value its deposits).

Additionally only 1/3 of the worlds population has internet access. Google and Facebook have vowed to provide internet access to the rest of the world by 2020. I expect that once these individuals, most of whom are unbanked and will gravitate to an online bank like bitshares, get access to the internet, payment networks will need to process substantially more than the average 2,000 tps of visa and the peak load will have to be greater than 10,000tps.

Also I don't think hyperinflation is inevitable but there will certainly be a financial crisis out of china and global economic depression within the next two years. I don't believe very many people will want to hold deposits in national currencies, which is why ppl will want to have deposits in BitAssets (BitGLD, BitSLV, BitOIL etc).

Looking at it from a global perspective it is inevitable that this industry exceeds several trillion in the next few years. Bitcoin's growth has certainly been exponential but we haven't seen anything yet.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: devphp on July 12, 2014, 06:08:05 AM
@FandangledGizmo,

I understand all this, moreover, I believe myself that bail-ins (a la Cyprus style) will spur another big rush to cryptos, but I don't see how it can be trillion dollar markets. This kind of money is controlled by hedge funds, which are highly regulated. If they are not allowed to invest into cryptos, which they won't be allowed (just look at the EU provisions issued a few days ago), it means the general public is not invested in cryptos, the general public has to invest their pension savings into crappy bonds and stocks thru pension and hedge funds. Individually, investors can go to cryptos, but that's not trillion dollar markets.

@clout,

I may underestimate a bit. But you overestimate cryptos too much :)
$10 bln->$100 bln in the next 5 years is still exponential, but even 100 tx/sec will be an overkill for that.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 12, 2014, 06:31:03 AM
@FandangledGizmo,

I understand all this, moreover, I believe myself that bail-ins (a la Cyprus style) will spur another big rush to cryptos, but I don't see how it can be trillion dollar markets. This kind of money is controlled by hedge funds, which are highly regulated. If they are not allowed to invest into cryptos, which they won't be allowed (just look at the EU provisions issued a few days ago), it means the general public is not invested in cryptos, the general public has to invest their pension savings into crappy bonds and stocks thru pension and hedge funds. Individually, investors can go to cryptos, but that's not trillion dollar markets.

@clout,

I may underestimate a bit. But you overestimate cryptos too much :)
$10 bln->$100 bln in the next 5 years is still exponential, but even 100 tx/sec will be an overkill for that.

While some industries may be slow to adopt useful innovations. If there are significant benefits to trading on deregulated exchanges, finance is one of the few that will rapidly maximise that edge imo. (Libor Scandal, London Whale, gold/HFT/Dark Pool manipulation, General insider trading..)

Also while the other systems don't currently offer a viable alternative to an ownership structure for a regular company, DPOS does. With shareholder elected representatives distributing slow release equity according to shareholder wishes. Many firms can be created or transferred to DAC ownership models. Given the future risk factors already cited above, this could also be a possibility. The current CAP of the worlds stock markets is circa $70 trillion, so again even a minuscule move here could be significant. Also considering over $20 trillion is in offshore tax havens, which are being targeted to, it all adds to potential. Optimistic maybe, but it's there.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: devphp on July 12, 2014, 06:43:02 AM
Let's hope you're not too optimistic with your assessments ;)


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: liondani on July 12, 2014, 09:51:38 AM
If you want a piece of every alt-company to come out in the next few years than buying AGS and PTS is a very good move. If you want to purchase stake in Bitshares X you can do so at at a lower price than people paid for it prior to the February snapshot on bter.com and btc38.com. Bitshares X is currently trading at a market cap of a little less than $25 million. That is a steal, if you ask me.

100% Agree.Good you are informing the community even before the AGS fundraising has ended! Nobody should complain he could not be part of this. Nobody should complain that only the insiders had the oportunity
to invest prior the prices going up. If you ask me, anybody that will be informed this period will look after 1 year as an insider too. $20-25$ million cap is maybe the cheapest entry point for BTSX...
Thing about these facts:

1.BTSX is not yet out. (On Dry Run 8, succesfull testing phase,My prediction is that this month they will come out...)
2.Because of DPOS impementation ( a new blockchain from scratch) they are 4 months late (normaly BitSharesX would be ready idle of March)
3.They have a team that works day and night to get this beast out BUT they don't do any marketing work! (They will after the "product" is ready!)
4.They implemented futures like TITAN http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/TITAN (http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/TITAN) and nobody knows it yet! For insiders only https://i.imgur.com/BJFMUDp.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/BJFMUDp.jpg)
5.DPOS  http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/DPOS (http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/DPOS)

for this and several other reasons I think it is common logic that it can go only up after/before launch...  ;)


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: dwma on July 13, 2014, 12:29:14 AM

I am not talking about average fees per block. I am talking about how much that would be in fiat in the future, we don't know that. We don't know how much fees per block will be in the future. All this 'analysis' based on past events is not relevant. It could well justify renting a VPS, labor is not a lot, 30 mins per month(?), NXT is already quite stable. Especially funny if someone projects fees based on their testnet, as in the case of BitShares.

So no analysis can be done using past figures.  Everything needs to be done using the unknown future?  Is that what you are saying?

Are you a dev at NXT by any chance ?

I once tried running a NXT node.  This was before the AE release.  The thing ended up taking up 5 gigs of memory after a couple of weeks.  I'm not sure what was going on, but it was nuts.

30 minutes = $20 for an average developer or admin.  So that makes it $25 a month now.  Just take the average fees in a month and see what sort of stake is required to make $25 a month.  Do you know what the average fees charged per month is ?  Oh wait, we can't use facts.  My bad.

Is it true or not true, that if I wanted to do an expensive operation, I could rewrite the wallet to put my transaction on a block that I am forging ?  A selfish-miner of sorts and thereby taking away fees from others ?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: devphp on July 13, 2014, 05:35:43 AM

I am not talking about average fees per block. I am talking about how much that would be in fiat in the future, we don't know that. We don't know how much fees per block will be in the future. All this 'analysis' based on past events is not relevant. It could well justify renting a VPS, labor is not a lot, 30 mins per month(?), NXT is already quite stable. Especially funny if someone projects fees based on their testnet, as in the case of BitShares.

So no analysis can be done using past figures.  Everything needs to be done using the unknown future?  Is that what you are saying?

Are you a dev at NXT by any chance ?

I once tried running a NXT node.  This was before the AE release.  The thing ended up taking up 5 gigs of memory after a couple of weeks.  I'm not sure what was going on, but it was nuts.

30 minutes = $20 for an average developer or admin.  So that makes it $25 a month now.  Just take the average fees in a month and see what sort of stake is required to make $25 a month.  Do you know what the average fees charged per month is ?  Oh wait, we can't use facts.  My bad.

Is it true or not true, that if I wanted to do an expensive operation, I could rewrite the wallet to put my transaction on a block that I am forging ?  A selfish-miner of sorts and thereby taking away fees from others ?

People try to do analysis using past figures all the time, you're free to do it. Only future will show if an analysis had anything to do with reality. Often it doesn't.

No, I am not a dev at NXT.
NXT could not be considered stable before AE release, it's much more stable now, and will get more stable in 1.3.xx when some code will be reworked. It's still beta quality, just like most software it should get better with time.

30 mins is to upgrade NXT 2-3 times a month as new releases (bugfixing or new features) come out. Of course, in the future, new releases will not come out that often, it's still in beta stage, so you should understand it's all beta-testing going on now, that's why have to spend time on it, just like beta testers work on BitShares. The difference is BitShares delays releasing to live net, is that good or not, opinions can differ. In any case, the main point of running a node is to forge on it and support the network. You gain not from forging mostly, but from being invested in NXT and assets on the exchange and price appreciation, so if someone's looking to profit from forging, they should re-think their strategy.

Here is a link to see distribution of forgers:
https://nxtblocks.info/#section/blockexplorer_charts
When you check the blockchain, the 'Others' that make 41% constitute more than 300 accounts, so there are 300+ accounts in NXT network that successfully produce blocks. We'll have to see how this changes in the future.

A block with the highest cumulative difficulty wins, not sure what you mean by 'rewrite the wallet'. For more info and specific questions you should better visit nxtforum.org and ask experts.
Here is a whitepaper on NXT:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2948110/Nxt/NxtWhitepaper_v122_rev4.pdf
someone's still working on it, so it's far from complete.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: dwma on July 13, 2014, 03:47:56 PM

People try to do analysis using past figures all the time, you're free to do it. Only future will show if an analysis had anything to do with reality. Often it doesn't.


A more reasonable response.  I still take issue with your picking at the original analysis.  NXT just isn't that volatile to invalidate the reasoning.  You claimed the analysis can't be done, because NXT may all at once shoot to the moon or some such.  The analysis to me was an interesting and novel point, that NXT fees have to be inflated to have a positive ROI for people with lower stakes.

It is like buying an out of date SHA256 miner for the same price as something pumping out a terahash.  Yea, we can't analyze ROI because we don't know the value of BTC in the future!   

You said analysis couldn't be done, but lets be honest here.  NXT people and any other POS using a similar "mine by stake portion" will have a similar issue with their system and would really love to see this point glossed over. 

It is decentralization relying on the goodwill of the miners or relying on inflated transactions fees.

Your reasoning is logically equivalent to saying any stock investment can not be analyzed because no one knows what the value of a stock would be.  Nonsense.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: devphp on July 13, 2014, 03:56:28 PM
It is decentralization relying on the goodwill of the miners or relying on inflated transactions fees.

Not quite. It relies on stakeholders' vested interest to keep the network running, at a profit or not. At a profit is better but not necessary. It's hard to tell what the fees will be in the future and how many txs the network will be processing, so it's hard to tell what that profit might be. My point was that forging is not to gain profits from it. Forging and running nodes does help profits indirectly, because it makes network stronger, which makes NXT stronger, but profits are only a side effect.

Now I have a question for you. Who subsidizes delegates in BitShares? Where do they get profits from or at least how do they cover their hardware expenses if the fees are planned to be very very low? Isn't this also relying on inflated (in fiat) tx fees in the future?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 13, 2014, 04:49:52 PM
It is decentralization relying on the goodwill of the miners or relying on inflated transactions fees.

Not quite. It relies on stakeholders' vested interest to keep the network running, at a profit or not. At a profit is better but not necessary. It's hard to tell what the fees will be in the future and how many txs the network will be processing, so it's hard to tell what that profit might be. My point was that forging is not to gain profits from it. Forging and running nodes does help profits indirectly, because it makes network stronger, which makes NXT stronger, but profits are only a side effect.

Now I have a question for you. Who subsidizes delegates in BitShares? Where do they get profits from or at least how do they cover their hardware expenses if the fees are planned to be very very low? Isn't this also relying on inflated (in fiat) tx fees in the future?

The cost of running a full node at every level of TPS is lower for BitShares than it is for NXT. Having transactions that are 10kB does not scale... The fees can be substantially less for BitShares while still proving profitable to delegates. Whereas under the same level of operation the same cannot be said of each individual forger. Additionally, since the system is limited to 101 delegates the average pay per block producer is greater than the average pay per forger, if you are to expect 350+ forgers per round.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FriendsOfBitshares on July 15, 2014, 05:56:05 AM

Not quite. It relies on stakeholders' vested interest to keep the network running, at a profit or not. At a profit is better but not necessary. It's hard to tell what the fees will be in the future and how many txs the network will be processing, so it's hard to tell what that profit might be. My point was that forging is not to gain profits from it. Forging and running nodes does help profits indirectly, because it makes network stronger, which makes NXT stronger, but profits are only a side effect.

Now I have a question for you. Who subsidizes delegates in BitShares? Where do they get profits from or at least how do they cover their hardware expenses if the fees are planned to be very very low? Isn't this also relying on inflated (in fiat) tx fees in the future?

You're right about there being more value than simple profits.  However, "Vested interest" also sounds perhaps like economics are not there for forgers with low stakes - so you say they are gaining value personally from securing the network.  That works.

We've never said the fees are "very very low", but that there will be only 101 delegates who are taking a part of the transaction fees.  There will likely be other candidates waiting to step up when they are voted in and these will be the guys losing money until the point of their election.  In DPOS, 101 nodes get all the transaction fees equally, according to what they do for the network.  In any stake proportional block-signing variant of POS the problem being discussed exists.  So either the fees are inflated for the little guys and perhaps more for the big guys, or the smaller stakes have to operate nodes at a loss.  I don't know which is the case for any of these types of POS, because I would have to find average transaction fees collected on each network along with the total currency supply etc and compare transaction fees.

Personally I think if someone enjoys running a node then that should be payment enough.  There is nothing wrong with charity.  If you believe in your currency, then go for it.  I've volunteered a lot of time to Bitshares.

However if I do try and run a block-signer aka Delegate, I can either give up after not being elected or know that my profits are a result of running a professional node.  The profit will not be proportional to how much capital I had to invest in the currency itself.  So if I am just a fan without a large stake, I can setup a professional VPS and try my luck at being a delegate without risking anything more than the delegate registration fee and my VPS costs.



Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: devphp on July 15, 2014, 06:00:28 AM
I am looking forward to BitShares release on live net.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FriendsOfBitshares on July 15, 2014, 06:03:16 AM
I am looking forward to BitShares release on live net.

Aren't we ALL !?   :)

I have a strong feeling it will be sooner than later.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: bitcoincal on July 15, 2014, 07:22:40 PM
What's the available supply of Bitshares X?

I was reading the wiki and all the terminology becomes confusing.

BitUSD, BitBTC...

How many different asset names will there be?

The client looks good, I can say that much.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FriendsOfBitshares on July 15, 2014, 10:09:28 PM
What's the available supply of Bitshares X?

I was reading the wiki and all the terminology becomes confusing.

BitUSD, BitBTC...

How many different asset names will there be?

The client looks good, I can say that much.

Share supply is 2 billion.

Initially there will only be a small number of assets to guarantee market depth.  As it grows, one should expect more assets to become available.  BitUSD is the asset that tracks USD, BitBTC tracks BTC etc. 

I think the current plan is 2 main assets BitGold and BitUSD.  I want to say there will be a third one tied into oil or CNY but I am not entirely  sure.  The wiki is a constant work in progress, but the product itself is a work in progress.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: bitcoincal on July 15, 2014, 11:08:27 PM
What's the available supply of Bitshares X?

I was reading the wiki and all the terminology becomes confusing.

BitUSD, BitBTC...

How many different asset names will there be?

The client looks good, I can say that much.

Share supply is 2 billion.

Initially there will only be a small number of assets to guarantee market depth.  As it grows, one should expect more assets to become available.  BitUSD is the asset that tracks USD, BitBTC tracks BTC etc. 

I think the current plan is 2 main assets BitGold and BitUSD.  I want to say there will be a third one tied into oil or CNY but I am not entirely  sure.  The wiki is a constant work in progress, but the product itself is a work in progress.

Are the devs behind Bitshares separate from Invictus?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FriendsOfBitshares on July 15, 2014, 11:11:32 PM
What's the available supply of Bitshares X?

I was reading the wiki and all the terminology becomes confusing.

BitUSD, BitBTC...

How many different asset names will there be?

The client looks good, I can say that much.

Share supply is 2 billion.

Initially there will only be a small number of assets to guarantee market depth.  As it grows, one should expect more assets to become available.  BitUSD is the asset that tracks USD, BitBTC tracks BTC etc. 

I think the current plan is 2 main assets BitGold and BitUSD.  I want to say there will be a third one tied into oil or CNY but I am not entirely  sure.  The wiki is a constant work in progress, but the product itself is a work in progress.

Are the devs behind Bitshares separate from Invictus?

I do not know the answer to this question, except both parties work together closely.  So they're not completely separate but I do not know who is an employee of Invictus and who isn't.  Invictus was the original company but they've restructured since then.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: r0ach on July 16, 2014, 12:27:23 AM
Last time I checked, this was an IPO.  Why would anyone want anything to do with an IPO coin when the coin creator can create hundreds of mule accounts, donate 10 BTC with all of them, get 99% share of the coin, then have all the BTC he spent return to him since he's the IPO provider.  IPO is just a license for infinite premine + making lots of BTC from whoever sends him some.

This is why the price of NXT is kept artificially high.  Anyone with a primitive level of TA skill can figure out that there's a very small number of large holders manipulating the market.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FriendsOfBitshares on July 16, 2014, 01:24:55 AM
Last time I checked, this was an IPO.  Why would anyone want anything to do with an IPO coin when the coin creator can create hundreds of mule accounts, donate 10 BTC with all of them, get 99% share of the coin, then have all the BTC he spent return to him since he's the IPO provider.  IPO is just a license for infinite premine + making lots of BTC from whoever sends him some.

This is why the price of NXT is kept artificially high.  Anyone with a primitive level of TA skill can figure out that there's a very small number of large holders manipulating the market.

I can't speak to NXT, but I can speak a bit about BitShares.  My understanding is they had someone in the  Carnegie Mellon CS PHD program quit to work on Bitshares along with other extremely talented folks.  This isn't just some random anonymous people on the internet.  I'm not even sure what you're talking about "IPO coin".  The bitsharestalk.org has about 5000 accounts, and a lot of them are Chinese.  There wouldn't even be a need for "mule accounts" as you use your private key to redeem the fruits of your donation.

I'd prefer POS over Bitcoin's POW which is charging users 10% inflation just for network security.  Actually if Bitshares followed that model, the initial inflation would be approaching infinity at the start.  We forget how bad it was in the early days.

Why do you want your money supply inflated to pay for network security ?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: devphp on July 16, 2014, 05:09:30 AM
Share supply is 2 billion.

How many shares are assigned to 1 Protoshare, acquired before Feb 28?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FriendsOfBitshares on July 16, 2014, 06:55:10 AM
Share supply is 2 billion.

How many shares are assigned to 1 Protoshare, acquired before Feb 28?

 644.1390368116966299


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FriendsOfBitshares on July 16, 2014, 07:36:42 AM
u think we can profit off this?

I think investing in PTS has a lot better shot at paying off than 99%+ of crypto-currencies.  The reasoning is that it has a whole ecosystem behind it being developed.  It isn't like a singular bitcoin fork trying to make a name for itself.  The economics are sound.

My whole life I've never tied my wagon to much of anything.  BitShares has been different.  Make of that what you wish.

BTSX is a no brainer.  Even if the chances of failure are somewhat high, the upside makes up for it.  Take a flyer and put a few bucks into it at least.  I have more to gain if you don't invest early as it will screw up the price, but I'm not here to mislead, only inform.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: mavromixalakis on July 16, 2014, 04:15:08 PM
Quote
u think we can profit off this?

The sooner you come on board the better you will be in the future. You can buy now some very cheap Bitshares X, although it is still risky. Many investors in order to get some Bitshares were buying PTS when it was $20 and didn't drop them after the snapshot on the 28th of Feb. So you can understand that if the initial shareholders overpaid for those BTS x it is very unlikely to dump them for a loss after more than 8 months of waiting...

Prepare yourselves for HUGE market cap very soon...


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: saamxx on July 16, 2014, 05:25:09 PM
Quote
u think we can profit off this?

The sooner you come on board the better you will be in the future. You can buy now some very cheap Bitshares X, although it is still risky. Many investors in order to get some Bitshares were buying PTS when it was $20 and didn't drop them after the snapshot on the 28th of Feb. So you can understand that if the initial shareholders overpaid for those BTS x it is very unlikely to dump them for a loss after more than 8 months of waiting...

Prepare yourselves for HUGE market cap very soon...

nice math ;D for idiots

1 btc brought 300-600AGS, depends of day and luck
Now it is 300*~3*500= 450000btsx
450000 at current price 0.000019 cost 8,55btc (so,1btc donated for AGS before 28.03, returned 8.55btc)
About what "double/triple" you are talking ??? What's the base of doubling ???


I have nothing against the fact that 1 btc of investment will bring x8 to those who was participated in donation.
But if the market manipulation will throw the price much higher, who will take part in this madness. Only idiots, market manipulators and original shareholders. Good luck ;D


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: megashira1 on July 16, 2014, 05:59:08 PM
Quote
u think we can profit off this?

The sooner you come on board the better you will be in the future. You can buy now some very cheap Bitshares X, although it is still risky. Many investors in order to get some Bitshares were buying PTS when it was $20 and didn't drop them after the snapshot on the 28th of Feb. So you can understand that if the initial shareholders overpaid for those BTS x it is very unlikely to dump them for a loss after more than 8 months of waiting...

Prepare yourselves for HUGE market cap very soon...

nice math ;D for idiots

1 btc brought 300-600AGS, depends of day and luck
Now it is 300*~3*500= 450000btsx
450000 at current price 0.000019 cost 8,55btc (so,1btc donated for AGS before 28.03, returned 8.55btc)
About what "double/triple" you are talking ??? What's the base of doubling ???


I have nothing against the fact that 1 btc of investment will bring x8 to those who was participated in donation.
But if the market manipulation will throw the price much higher, who will take part in this madness. Only idiots, market manipulators and original shareholders. Good luck ;D

He's talking about the price of PTS not BTSX.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 16, 2014, 07:30:55 PM
Quote
u think we can profit off this?

The sooner you come on board the better you will be in the future. You can buy now some very cheap Bitshares X, although it is still risky. Many investors in order to get some Bitshares were buying PTS when it was $20 and didn't drop them after the snapshot on the 28th of Feb. So you can understand that if the initial shareholders overpaid for those BTS x it is very unlikely to dump them for a loss after more than 8 months of waiting...

Prepare yourselves for HUGE market cap very soon...

nice math ;D for idiots

1 btc brought 300-600AGS, depends of day and luck
Now it is 300*~3*500= 450000btsx
450000 at current price 0.000019 cost 8,55btc (so,1btc donated for AGS before 28.03, returned 8.55btc)
About what "double/triple" you are talking ??? What's the base of doubling ???


I have nothing against the fact that 1 btc of investment will bring x8 to those who was participated in donation.
But if the market manipulation will throw the price much higher, who will take part in this madness. Only idiots, market manipulators and original shareholders. Good luck ;D

Yeah I'm talking about BitShares-PTS

Lol at 8X for BTS X  :) It's easiest to see looking at the value of PTS on 28/02 and then after the snapshot. PTS was @ $25 million for the weeks leading up to the snapshot and then $10 million after. So a difference of $15 million and as PTS got 50% of BTSX we know the market was paying a $30 million CAP in February. So you are actually getting it cheaper than a lot of people were paying in February! ($24 Million CAP atm.) So people who donated in last week/s of FEB are BE/negative people who donated to AGS much earlier are more positive maybe 30%-100% gains depending.




Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: saamxx on July 16, 2014, 07:43:26 PM
Quote
u think we can profit off this?

The sooner you come on board the better you will be in the future. You can buy now some very cheap Bitshares X, although it is still risky. Many investors in order to get some Bitshares were buying PTS when it was $20 and didn't drop them after the snapshot on the 28th of Feb. So you can understand that if the initial shareholders overpaid for those BTS x it is very unlikely to dump them for a loss after more than 8 months of waiting...

Prepare yourselves for HUGE market cap very soon...

nice math ;D for idiots

1 btc brought 300-600AGS, depends of day and luck
Now it is 300*~3*500= 450000btsx
450000 at current price 0.000019 cost 8,55btc (so,1btc donated for AGS before 28.03, returned 8.55btc)
About what "double/triple" you are talking ??? What's the base of doubling ???


I have nothing against the fact that 1 btc of investment will bring x8 to those who was participated in donation.
But if the market manipulation will throw the price much higher, who will take part in this madness. Only idiots, market manipulators and original shareholders. Good luck ;D

He's talking about the price of PTS not BTSX.
I know ;) But the main deals are going to be with btsx. The pts is only prelude. But where is no any active topic about it(both PTS&AGS) here. So, that silent "ipo via donating" belongs to a limited ones ( don't tell me about 5000+ btc donations ;D) The amount of collected funds has nothing with the number of participants ;)
I anticipate the great battle about future btsx price&distribution model ;)


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 16, 2014, 07:45:47 PM

nice math ;D for idiots

1 btc brought 300-600AGS, depends of day and luck


Even if you donated on the best day before the snapshot <28/02, 1 BTC only got you 110 AGS? Where are you getting 300-600 from?
http://www1.agsexplorer.com/

(I.e so even the luckiest person from the luckiest day, got 110AGSx3.3= 330 BTSX X 500 = 165 000 BTSX * 0.000019 = 3.1 BTC for 1 BTC
The unluckiest people from the later donation days are actually still negative now.)

Everyone who donated has had their funds tied up for 5 months and they were only investing in an idea. In February it was a very risky investment, now there is a test net and investors can see parts already working. Personally I have bought more at these prices.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: saamxx on July 16, 2014, 08:05:24 PM

nice math ;D for idiots

1 btc brought 300-600AGS, depends of day and luck


Even if you donated on the best day before the snapshot <28/02, 1 BTC only got you 110 AGS? Where are you getting 300-600 from?
http://www1.agsexplorer.com/

You are right here. I have been repelled by the last month data.
Ok, 1 btc brought 3,4btc. That's not bad,too
It is more consistent with the current btsx price.
But why BTT was fully ignored by bitshares, so i had heard about it too late ??? ;)


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 16, 2014, 10:13:51 PM

nice math ;D for idiots

1 btc brought 300-600AGS, depends of day and luck


Even if you donated on the best day before the snapshot <28/02, 1 BTC only got you 110 AGS? Where are you getting 300-600 from?
http://www1.agsexplorer.com/

You are right here. I have been repelled by the last month data.
Ok, 1 btc brought 3,4btc. That's not bad,too
It is more consistent with the current btsx price.
But why BTT was fully ignored by bitshares, so i had heard about it too late ??? ;)

1 got 3.4 for the luckiest donators but in the last weeks before it's more like just BE (1-1) atm :(

Sorry you missed it there were a few threads around at the time but until they started testing a few weeks ago there wasn't much new to talk about.If you look on Alexa.com you see BitShares gets more upstream visits from BTT than MSC/Ethereum/XCP, the bitshares forum also has over 5000 members which is more than those other 2.0 guys combined so I don't think they're doing a terrible job.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: megashira1 on July 17, 2014, 01:14:10 AM

nice math ;D for idiots

1 btc brought 300-600AGS, depends of day and luck


Even if you donated on the best day before the snapshot <28/02, 1 BTC only got you 110 AGS? Where are you getting 300-600 from?
http://www1.agsexplorer.com/

You are right here. I have been repelled by the last month data.
Ok, 1 btc brought 3,4btc. That's not bad,too
It is more consistent with the current btsx price.
But why BTT was fully ignored by bitshares, so i had heard about it too late ??? ;)

1 got 3.4 for the luckiest donators but in the last weeks before it's more like just BE (1-1) atm :(

The question is where does the majority lie in between these 2 extremes?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 17, 2014, 06:41:30 PM

nice math ;D for idiots

1 btc brought 300-600AGS, depends of day and luck


Even if you donated on the best day before the snapshot <28/02, 1 BTC only got you 110 AGS? Where are you getting 300-600 from?
http://www1.agsexplorer.com/

You are right here. I have been repelled by the last month data.
Ok, 1 btc brought 3,4btc. That's not bad,too
It is more consistent with the current btsx price.
But why BTT was fully ignored by bitshares, so i had heard about it too late ??? ;)

1 got 3.4 for the luckiest donators but in the last weeks before it's more like just BE (1-1) atm :(

The question is where does the majority lie in between these 2 extremes?

I think the majority lie closer to the 1-1 returns (Towards the end of Feb is when the majority got involved.)
For me personally I bought a tiny bit in Jan but as I learnt more about I got more excited so bought more towards the end of Feb.
Now that I can see it working on the test net, I'm amazed I can buy more now for less than what I was paying at end Feb, so I've actually bought more most of my X stake in the last week that it's been pre-trading on bter & BTC38. 

As this thread is more about PTS if you want to see more about what they're working on & upcoming DAC's -

This is 'Summer of Code' a 5 min video they released this week http://vimeo.com/100551015

(This is also a short behind the scenes video they release a couple of weeks ago http://vimeo.com/98988328)


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: jiefangqian on July 19, 2014, 08:30:25 AM
good


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: huxdy on July 19, 2014, 09:03:14 PM
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5747.0

BTS X has officially released.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: testz on July 19, 2014, 10:43:25 PM
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5747.0

BTS X has officially released.

English version here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5750.0


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: megashira1 on July 19, 2014, 10:57:07 PM
This confused me.. Why is a 3rd party releasing the bitsharesX chain?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 19, 2014, 11:12:19 PM
This confused me.. Why is a 3rd party releasing the bitsharesX chain?

I think 3rd Parties will be releasing all the DAC's, leaving the BitShares developers to focus on developing and building the foundation for DAC's.

I think this is to lessen their workload, releasing products probably isn't their speciality anyway and I also think I read that is apparently better from a legal standpoint if BitShares isn't involved in releasing DAC's.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 19, 2014, 11:33:40 PM
This confused me.. Why is a 3rd party releasing the bitsharesX chain?

Invictus Innovation, which is a US based company, is not launching any DACs. Invictus is simply creating the opensource software that makes DACs possible. DACs Unlimited is group of developers out of Hong Kong that know how to use the bitshares toolkit and are well equipped to launch future DACs. Other 3rd party DAC developers will emerge to launch new DACs using the toolkit and every DAC that is created will honor pts holders 10%. This is why pts is such a great buy. By the end of 2015 I expect the bitshares repo will have more for forks than bitcoin's.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: megashira1 on July 19, 2014, 11:38:01 PM
This confused me.. Why is a 3rd party releasing the bitsharesX chain?

Invictus Innovation, which is a US based company, is not launching any DACs. Invictus is simply creating the opensource software that makes DACs possible. DACs Unlimited is group of developers out of Hong Kong that know how to use the bitshares toolkit and are well equipped to launch future DACs. Other 3rd party DAC developers will emerge to launch new DACs using the toolkit and every DAC that is created will honor pts holders 10%. This is why pts is such a great buy. By the end of 2015 I expect the bitshares repo will have more for forks than bitcoin's.

But in the DAC explanation chart there were "Bitshare" DACs and then "3rd Party" DACs.. Is this not an official Bitshares DAC?



Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 19, 2014, 11:53:47 PM
This confused me.. Why is a 3rd party releasing the bitsharesX chain?

Invictus Innovation, which is a US based company, is not launching any DACs. Invictus is simply creating the opensource software that makes DACs possible. DACs Unlimited is group of developers out of Hong Kong that know how to use the bitshares toolkit and are well equipped to launch future DACs. Other 3rd party DAC developers will emerge to launch new DACs using the toolkit and every DAC that is created will honor pts holders 10%. This is why pts is such a great buy. By the end of 2015 I expect the bitshares repo will have more for forks than bitcoin's.

But in the DAC explanation chart there were "Bitshare" DACs and then "3rd Party" DACs.. Is this not an official Bitshares DAC?



This is an official BitShares DAC


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: bitcoincal on July 20, 2014, 01:07:33 AM
So for those that donated, what do we have to submit exactly and when.

Do they want .DAT files?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 20, 2014, 01:13:16 AM
So for those that donated, what do we have to submit exactly and when.

Do they want .DAT files?

yes you import your wallet.dat into the client.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: bitcoincal on July 20, 2014, 02:20:46 AM
So for those that donated, what do we have to submit exactly and when.

Do they want .DAT files?

yes you import your wallet.dat into the client.

Is there a date to do that? How about if you donated after the cut off to Bitshares X, do you still upload your .dat to the Bitshares X client?



Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: HarriHirsch on July 20, 2014, 12:26:31 PM
Hi,

is there anyone who wants to sell some bitshares PTS on the NHZ AE?

I would like to buy some  ;D


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: jiefangqian on July 20, 2014, 12:45:18 PM
"blockchain_share_supply": 199992333409729
sum btsx: 1999923334.09729.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 20, 2014, 03:29:40 PM
So for those that donated, what do we have to submit exactly and when.

Do they want .DAT files?

yes you import your wallet.dat into the client.

Is there a date to do that? How about if you donated after the cut off to Bitshares X, do you still upload your .dat to the Bitshares X client?



you can claim your funds whenever. if you donated after the cutt of for BitShares X you can claim funds from subsequent DACs


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: Fernandez on July 25, 2014, 11:07:06 AM
I thought the price was supposed to double. I think the sellers haven't go the memo.

Looking into, and seeing other IPOs like Ethereum, Bitshares actually look good. The stealth support was unknown to me so that was a good surprise. I will invest the bit when more sellers come on market.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: testz on July 25, 2014, 11:24:51 AM
I thought the price was supposed to double. I think the sellers haven't go the memo.

Looking into, and seeing other IPOs like Ethereum, Bitshares actually look good. The stealth support was unknown to me so that was a good surprise. I will invest the bit when more sellers come on market.

Agree, it's a best crypto IPO (distribution) which I know IMHO


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: Fernandez on July 25, 2014, 11:33:40 AM
I thought the price was supposed to double. I think the sellers haven't go the memo.

Looking into, and seeing other IPOs like Ethereum, Bitshares actually look good. The stealth support was unknown to me so that was a good surprise. I will invest the bit when more sellers come on market.

Agree, it's a best crypto IPO (distribution) which I know IMHO

To me the best distributions so far have been XCP and NEM. May be there are some others which have slipped my notice.
But as far as raising big money goes they have done well, though the rush to award themselves the coins well before while actually releasing it after IPO was over was very sneaky and successful.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: brian_23452 on July 29, 2014, 11:06:57 PM
Anyways, as that guy said, there is little reason to argue about this.  PTS is currently trading at 0.0069BTC on Cryptsy, we can all just come back in a month or two and see what new low it has achieved.

Well I guess you guys were right after all, PTS sure did double/triple in price, if by double/triple in price you meant lose 10% and still dropping. 


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 30, 2014, 02:32:42 AM
Anyways, as that guy said, there is little reason to argue about this.  PTS is currently trading at 0.0069BTC on Cryptsy, we can all just come back in a month or two and see what new low it has achieved.

Well I guess you guys were right after all, PTS sure did double/triple in price, if by double/triple in price you meant lose 10% and still dropping. 

It was only me who specified a potential doubling in price by Aug 8th. I expected we would have a couple of snapshot announcements by then, as far as I can tell there are 2 snapshots that will be announced in Aug, but it's likely they will come after Aug 8th.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on July 30, 2014, 02:40:09 AM
I thought the price was supposed to double. I think the sellers haven't go the memo.

Looking into, and seeing other IPOs like Ethereum, Bitshares actually look good. The stealth support was unknown to me so that was a good surprise. I will invest the bit when more sellers come on market.

Agree, it's a best crypto IPO (distribution) which I know IMHO

To me the best distributions so far have been XCP and NEM. May be there are some others which have slipped my notice.
But as far as raising big money goes they have done well, though the rush to award themselves the coins well before while actually releasing it after IPO was over was very sneaky and successful.

I always find it funny people think XCP IPO was good, (I have XCP myself from POB stage), but burning all that potential development money was one of the biggest wastes in Crypto.

Besides having a long donation period and raising thousands of BTC via AGS and PTS, which is POW, so could also be mined. BitShares X has been trading far below the price those investors paid. So it has been even cheaper now for people to get in than the initial investors.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: brian_23452 on July 30, 2014, 06:33:16 AM
Anyways, as that guy said, there is little reason to argue about this.  PTS is currently trading at 0.0069BTC on Cryptsy, we can all just come back in a month or two and see what new low it has achieved.

Well I guess you guys were right after all, PTS sure did double/triple in price, if by double/triple in price you meant lose 10% and still dropping. 

It was only me who specified a potential doubling in price by Aug 8th. I expected we would have a couple of snapshot announcements by then, as far as I can tell there are 2 snapshots that will be announced in Aug, but it's likely they will come after Aug 8th.


And despite that you are still going to put your faith in a company that has as of yet produced nothing of value, and is nothing but promises?  Some people never learn. 
Well good luck. 


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: clout on July 30, 2014, 01:00:47 PM
Anyways, as that guy said, there is little reason to argue about this.  PTS is currently trading at 0.0069BTC on Cryptsy, we can all just come back in a month or two and see what new low it has achieved.

Well I guess you guys were right after all, PTS sure did double/triple in price, if by double/triple in price you meant lose 10% and still dropping. 

It was only me who specified a potential doubling in price by Aug 8th. I expected we would have a couple of snapshot announcements by then, as far as I can tell there are 2 snapshots that will be announced in Aug, but it's likely they will come after Aug 8th.


And despite that you are still going to put your faith in a company that has as of yet produced nothing of value, and is nothing but promises?  Some people never learn. 
Well good luck. 

BitShareX was launched on July 19th... download the wallet at bitshares-x.info


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: Triffin on July 30, 2014, 06:41:32 PM
I've got a few PTS on Cryptsy and I want to move them to
a wallet in order to participate in future "snapshots" to allocate DAC shares ..

I went here .. to download a windows wallet  

http://bitshares.org/resources/downloads/

but, I get a "502 Bad Gateway" message ..

I checked the bitshares forum  (what a mess !! )
looking for a wallet link and only found a thread filled with comments
about how they can't get it to work ( the wallet that is ) ..

Whoever is responsible for the layout and management of the BitShares Forum
needs to make the wallet and basic coin description/attributes the first thing you find ..

Any help/guidance on this ??
TIA ..

Triff ..


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: megashira1 on July 30, 2014, 06:45:52 PM
I've got a few PTS on Cryptsy and I want to move them to
a wallet in order to participate in future "snapshots" to allocate DAC shares ..

I went here .. to download a windows wallet  

http://bitshares.org/resources/downloads/

but, I get a "502 Bad Gateway" message ..

I checked the bitshares forum  (what a mess !! )
looking for a wallet link and only found a thread filled with comments
about how they can't get it to work ( the wallet that is ) ..

Whoever is responsible for the layout and management of the BitShares Forum
needs to make the wallet and basic coin description/attributes the first thing you find ..

Any help/guidance on this ??
TIA ..

Triff ..


Yes. the forum needs a little house cleaning. Here is the link to the wallet.

https://github.com/BitShares/BitShares-PTS/releases



Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: Triffin on July 30, 2014, 06:53:20 PM
Thanks .. I'll trundle over there and have a look  ;D

Triff ..


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: huxdy on July 31, 2014, 12:01:58 AM
Bitshares is great  8)


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on August 02, 2014, 12:00:41 AM
The Decentralized Namespace Service

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6509

Announcing the Decentralized Namespace Service - get your share by holding PTS before the end of August 21st

Featuring:

.p2p  - .bit killer and DNS cash cow
KeyID - replacing usernames everywhere

Enabling services like

Browsing .p2p websites - no spying, no seizures!
"SignIn with KeyID" - think google/facebook signin only MORE SECURE. OUTRAGEOUSLY SECURE if the website is a .p2p site.
"KeyMail"  -  more on this later... will be a critical piece of infrastructure for BTS ecosystem as a whole


Features ready NOW (test net incoming):
* .p2p Punishing Throttled Auction (with hard-coded throttle) for initial distribution  -  more on this later
* .p2p Sell/Buy embedded market
* .p2p TITAN transfers
* KeyID "points" with upburn/downburn  - how much money will people spend adjusting a meaningless number associated with their account? Probably a bunch!
* Everything in the toolkit except Markets - *maybe* we will add BitUSD far in the future

Features ready at launch at end of august (hopefully, it's just a goal):
* Punishing auction throttle size set by delegates, with fallback to fixed rate
* .p2p "offers" - put up bids before a domain is for sale or before it even exists. Not everyone wants to risk the Punishing Auction.
* SignIn with KeyID  -  we can already do this with ID-to-ID but we want to be able to do ID-to-.p2p because then you can check the site you are logging in to is who you think it is

Features ready after launch:
* DNS servers / browser plugins / "invisible" clients  -  seamless browsing experience
* DNS delegates that act as smart oracles for other decentralized application platforms - ethereum, ripple, etc... KeyID usernames *all over crypto land*.

Allocation:

1bn to AGS
1bn to PTS
1bn MYSTERY sharedrops onto other crypto. Targets might include BTC, NMC, NXT, ETH (snapshot using presale), PPC. They will likely be scaled so that they all give the same price per DNS and all have the same price *disadvantage* compared to PTS - this is why I feel OK not disclosing the exact allocation yet.. UP TO 100m of the sharedrop *might* be reserved for backpay and bounties but I fear the consequences of perceived unfairness and so I'll probably try to avoid this.

7bn delegate subsidy, about 45% of the pool paid out per year.

Delegate subsidy equation (assuming 10 second blocks):
     block_pay = delegate_subsidy_remaining / 5000000
So the *maximum* number of new tokens created after T years is given by:
     7000000000 - (7000000000 * (1 - 1/5000000)^((3153600)*T))
(there are 3153600 blocks per year)


Watch out for:
* PAID positions for content creation and development (web, core client, and DNS infrastructure)
* Instructions for migrating Keyhotee and BTSX names


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on August 02, 2014, 12:06:32 AM
Announcing the VOTE DAC (SNAPSHOT DATE: 8-21-14)

In democratic societies throughout the world, elections are plagued with accusations of illegitimacy stemming from all sorts of issues, such as flawed registration processes, inconsistent voter ID laws, cases of widespread voter fraud, non-sensible restrictions, vulnerable voting machine technology, and a general lack of transparency.

We must acknowledge that the key issue that needs to be solved is the lack of transparency in government run elections, in the Unites States and across the globe. If we can properly address this singular issue, we’d essentially solve all the other problems that plague the industry and would have the opportunity to begin hosting accurate elections that result in an agreeable consensus.

With the 2016 U.S. Presidential and Congressional Elections right around the corner, it seems that the time has finally come to leverage the latest technology to develop a voting system that permits the hosting of secure and transparent elections with agreeable outcomes that makes efficient use of taxpayer money.

In today’s world, it is finally possible to host verified and transparent elections in an end-to-end voting system encoded within a Decentralized Autonomous Company (DAC). A voting DAC is the key to solving the transparency problem current electronic voting systems face today, as it provides a valuable service that allows people to vote in elections that are secure, transparent, and free from corruption.

In the near future, Follow My Vote (http://followmyvote.com/) will releasing the first voting DAC in history using the BitShares Toolkit for building DACs, which will be called the VOTE DAC. Development will happen in stages, with the first stage being the development of a proto-DAC, as it will be released with limited features. We will refer to the partial ownership of the VOTE DAC as a VOTE or VOTES, similar to how one would refer to owning shares of a traditional company. Launching initially as a proto-DAC will allow for the trading of VOTES while the remaining features are under development.

The VOTE allocation of Follow My Vote’s VOTE DAC will include 10 billion VOTES. Half (50%) of the VOTES (5 billion to be exact) will be allocated over time to delegates that will be responsible for maintaining the blockchain throughout the life of the company, starting with 50% allocated within the first year of operations and 50% of the remaining VOTES thereafter, year over year. The other 5 billion VOTES will be allocated up front to, among other things, cover the cost of the development of the DAC itself and marketing necessary to acquire its initial user base.


The share allocation for 'The Vote DAC' is as follows with more detail about the breakdown given in the link -  https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6508

Quote
4.2.2) BitShares PTS: 1.5 billion VOTES
4.2.3) BitShares AGS: 1.5 billion VOTES
4.2.4) Follow My Vote: 1.5 billion VOTES
4.2.5) NuSpark: 50 million VOTES
4.2.6) Virginia Tech: 50 million VOTES
4.2.7) New River Valley: 400 million VOTES

Check Out Follow My Vote’s Whitepaper (http://followmyvote.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/The-Key-To-Unlocking-The-Black-Box.pdf) For More Info!


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on August 02, 2014, 12:09:07 AM
Double BitShares-PTS snapshot announced for Aug 21st! (See two posts above)

1. The Decentralized Namespace Service - get your share by holding PTS before the end of August 21st

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6509

2. The VOTE DAC (SNAPSHOT DATE: 8-21-14)

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6508


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: counter on August 02, 2014, 12:09:14 AM
Many thanks for the updates guys it is very much appreciated.  I wish I could have bought some on the dip but funds were tight and people weren't selling much IMO.  I hope to be holding some pts before the boom I suspect will come.  Exciting tings in Plans for Bitshares and I'll be watching closely with much anticipation.  Big ups the the Devs and community!


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: jasemoney on August 02, 2014, 12:44:30 AM
so the news released for bitshares-pts is referencing angelshares and protoshares in the snapshot.  are bitshares (btsx) included in the snapshot or is this specifically for protoshares holders?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on August 02, 2014, 02:54:09 AM
so the news released for bitshares-pts is referencing angelshares and protoshares in the snapshot.  are bitshares (btsx) included in the snapshot or is this specifically for protoshares holders?

Correct it is referencing AGS & PTS. (& no BTSX is not included in the snapshot.)

It can be a bit confusing, but BTSX is the bank & exchange DAC, so only future Bank & Exchange versions will snapshot BTSX.

AGS & BitShares-PTS (protoshares) are the ones completely new DAC's will snapshot off the first time.



Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: Triffin on August 02, 2014, 02:58:23 AM
BitShares-PTS (protoshares) is the one completely new DAC's will snapshot off the first time.

Is there a 'step by step' description of the 'snapshot' process somewhere ??
I assume you have to hold your Bitshares-PTS in your local wallet and then ?? 

Triff ..


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: jasemoney on August 02, 2014, 03:00:32 AM
thanks for the response, and angelshares is not traded anywhere that i can see correct? (why would you lol you invested in something awesome)
so i picked up a few protoshares, had more a few months ago but didnt really know what it meant.  
I cant wait for btsx bank/exchnage in wallet to open up :D


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on August 02, 2014, 03:11:33 AM
BitShares-PTS (protoshares) is the one completely new DAC's will snapshot off the first time.

Is there a 'step by step' description of the 'snapshot' process somewhere ??
I assume you have to hold your Bitshares-PTS in your local wallet and then ??  

Triff ..

Yes you just have to have them in your local wallet at the time of the snapshot. (After the snapshot date you can sell the PTS if you want. When the DAC is released the DAC wallet will know when you import your PTS wallet or the private key how many you held on snapshot date and therefore how many shares in the new DAC you get.)

(Some of the exchanges may honour the snapshot too, like bter & BTC38 did for PTS that was on their exchange at snapshot time, but it's not guaranteed.)

The FAQ has some good info http://bitshares.org/faq/
As does the BitShares wiki http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Main_Page


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on August 02, 2014, 03:15:16 AM
thanks for the response, and angelshares is not traded anywhere that i can see correct? (why would you lol you invested in something awesome)
so i picked up a few protoshares, had more a few months ago but didnt really know what it meant.  
I cant wait for btsx bank/exchnage in wallet to open up :D

Correct. Angelshares is how they raised development funds. There was a 200 day donation period that raised a few thousand BTC.

http://www1.agsexplorer.com/

It's one of the reasons, I started this thread. I think the PTS price will do very well now that it is the main vehicle for new investment in BitShares related DAC's.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: jasemoney on August 02, 2014, 03:23:52 AM
great thanks again


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: madawc on August 02, 2014, 07:51:37 AM
What would you recommend me to buy-PTS or BTSX? I have about 17k BTSX and no PTS.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: puppies on August 02, 2014, 08:17:26 AM
What would you recommend me to buy-PTS or BTSX? I have about 17k BTSX and no PTS.

If you are looking to flip them for a profit then I can't really advise you, as I am not sure myself.  I think they are both cheap right now.  If you are interested in the BitSharesX family of dacs (trading, banking, derivatives tied to real world price) then you should stay in BTSX, If voting or DNS is more your speed you should go into PTS.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: madawc on August 02, 2014, 10:48:25 AM
I just buy another 17k BTSX for 1-2 year investment. I hope it's worth it.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: Gentso1 on August 02, 2014, 12:21:30 PM
What would you recommend me to buy-PTS or BTSX? I have about 17k BTSX and no PTS.

If you are looking to flip them for a profit then I can't really advise you, as I am not sure myself.  I think they are both cheap right now.  If you are interested in the BitSharesX family of dacs (trading, banking, derivatives tied to real world price) then you should stay in BTSX, If voting or DNS is more your speed you should go into PTS.

I would suggest going to the https://bitsharestalk.org (https://bitsharestalk.org) and reading about the different DAC's they offer. If a snapshot has all ready happened of course the only way to get in is to buy the existing (LTS,BTSX....etc). What is nice about the upcoming snapshot is that you will get 2 DAC's for the price of one.

To be honest I am not sure what I would do. I am hedging my bets simply by owning a little bit of everything they make.......it is of course the only way to be sure. 


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: testz on August 02, 2014, 12:53:30 PM
I would suggest going to the https://bitsharestalk.org (https://bitsharestalk.org) and reading about the different DAC's they offer. If a snapshot has all ready happened of course the only way to get in is to buy the existing (LTS,BTSX....etc). What is nice about the upcoming snapshot is that you will get 2 DAC's for the price of one.

To be honest I am not sure what I would do. I am hedging my bets simply by owning a little bit of everything they make.......it is of course the only way to be sure. 

Probably you mean PTS not LTS.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on August 02, 2014, 02:05:27 PM
I own BTSX & PTS but I would guess PTS will outperform BTSX in the next 10 days. (I own PTS for the snapshot but I've also moved a little BTC into it just for a trade too.)  

BitAssets for BTSX may be released in August too, so it's a tough one to guess.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: jasemoney on August 04, 2014, 09:24:57 PM
heres another question, if you held protoshares but did not donate for angelshares did you get bitshares?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: megashira1 on August 04, 2014, 09:28:30 PM
heres another question, if you held protoshares but did not donate for angelshares did you get bitshares?

If you held them before the FEB 28 snapshot than YES.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: counter on August 04, 2014, 10:29:43 PM
heres another question, if you held protoshares but did not donate for angelshares did you get bitshares?

If you held them before the FEB 28 snapshot than YES.

I've often found myself wondering the same thing thanks for asking and answering the question.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: atc1 on August 04, 2014, 10:34:12 PM
I think the next fall of difficulty is coming in September. But it will last even lesser than the 4-5 window period last time. The price will decrease after that period a lot if the experiences of last time were anything to go by.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: CLains on August 09, 2014, 10:47:54 PM
I think the next fall of difficulty is coming in September. But it will last even lesser than the 4-5 window period last time. The price will decrease after that period a lot if the experiences of last time were anything to go by.

Price will fall exactly at the end of 21th of August. How do I know?

Two new snapshots have been announced for that day,

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=675455.msg8270526#msg8270526

http://shupe.net/images/uploads/thumbs/TheMoreYouKnow_small.jpg


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: brekyrself on August 11, 2014, 12:31:56 AM
I think the next fall of difficulty is coming in September. But it will last even lesser than the 4-5 window period last time. The price will decrease after that period a lot if the experiences of last time were anything to go by.

Price will fall exactly at the end of 21th of August. How do I know?

Two new snapshots have been announced for that day,

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=675455.msg8270526#msg8270526

http://shupe.net/images/uploads/thumbs/TheMoreYouKnow_small.jpg

Very true

Not much PTS left for sale compared with last time a snapshot was announced.  People are pulling theirs off the exchanges early this time around!


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on August 12, 2014, 02:43:39 AM
Notice how PTS is up today while alt-coins are tanking?

BitShares has a big snapshot on the 21st Aug - That means it will could easily be up
most days till the 21st. (Look on the CMC price graph at the last big snapshot date on 28th Feb.)

The snapshots on the 21st are really cool, BitShares DNS & followmyvote, & if you keep the PTS in your wallet on that day you get issued shares in those DAC's.

At the same time it's not a bad idea to buy PTS now while other alts are struggling and if you decide you don't like the snapshots enough you can sell before the 21st.



Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: CLains on August 13, 2014, 12:31:20 AM
Updated infographic for yall :)

https://i.imgur.com/VLNlMqv.png

More info, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=732434.msg8278547#msg8278547


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: brekyrself on August 13, 2014, 01:49:27 AM

At the same time it's not a bad idea to buy PTS now while other alts are struggling and if you decide you don't like the snapshots enough you can sell before the 21st.




Amazing how people do not see this!


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: soniq on August 13, 2014, 02:26:32 AM
heres another question, if you held protoshares but did not donate for angelshares did you get bitshares?

If you held them before the FEB 28 snapshot than YES.

Actually if you have PTS they will convert 1:1 Bitshares once the mining period for PTS is over

If you donated BTC or PTS to AGS fund you would receive BTSX shares for every PTS/AGS  you held before Feb 28th snapshot


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: pairmike on August 13, 2014, 05:04:32 AM
I'm looking forward to the new snapshots for DNS and Lotto. 


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: xeroc on August 13, 2014, 04:25:57 PM
Actually if you have PTS they will convert 1:1 Bitshares once the mining period for PTS is over

If you donated BTC or PTS to AGS fund you would receive BTSX shares for every PTS/AGS  you held before Feb 28th snapshot
That is only true for DACs that snapshot after all PTS are mined ...
and only if the amounts are the same ..

in BTSX the total supply is 2billion .. so you got like 500 BTSX per PTS ..


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: Tradingriver on August 13, 2014, 09:04:40 PM
if you interested in the 2 snapshots it is not a bad idea to buy PTS

all the coins are shaking in the moment, so you have to look for something with purpose.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: Coinport Exchange Support on August 13, 2014, 09:36:03 PM
I wouldn't own any coins right now. Altcoins are taking a beating.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: brekyrself on August 13, 2014, 10:37:23 PM
I wouldn't own any coins right now. Altcoins are taking a beating.

PTS will continue to climb until the snapshot on the 21st. 


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: xeroc on August 14, 2014, 04:17:59 PM
I wouldn't own any coins right now. Altcoins are taking a beating.
Just FYI ... PTS are no altcoin .. they are an investment in future DACS .. take a look at the confirmation times currently and you will see that this coin will not be used as a traditional coin any time soon ..

BTW. while peercoin, litecoin and peercoin lost almost 12% .. pts lost 3% .. and btsx about 1% .. thats not what I call "taking a beating"


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: Xeldal on August 14, 2014, 05:28:20 PM
BitShares X held up pretty well also.

I've got my PTS trapped on cryptsy at the moment.  Tried to transfer yesterday morning sometime.  Still pending.

Not sure if we're gonna see a double/triple. only a weeks time left before the snapshots.  Doesn't matter to me anyway.  I'm not selling.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on August 14, 2014, 06:37:15 PM

Not sure if we're gonna see a double/triple. only a weeks time left before the snapshots.  Doesn't matter to me anyway.  I'm not selling.

Yeah you're right, but given the alt-coin market tanking atm, PTS just going up 10-50% in the next week will still be good.

I wouldn't be surprised to see BitShares PTS & no.10 or even no.9 on coinmarketcap at the time of snapshot.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: Nullu on August 14, 2014, 07:32:30 PM
I wouldn't own any coins right now. Altcoins are taking a beating.

Surely that's the best time to own alts? Provided you buy smart, and play the waiting game. Pick the right coins, and you could profit handsomely. The problem is sifting the gems out of the wasteland that is the alt crypto scene.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: ericksmerick on August 14, 2014, 10:04:19 PM
I am super excited about the btsx thing and all the new dacs coming out. I actually mined my pts and can't wait to see what the future holds for bitshares.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: nikola384 on August 15, 2014, 05:24:25 AM
I wouldn't own any coins right now. Altcoins are taking a beating.

Surely that's the best time to own alts? Provided you buy smart, and play the waiting game. Pick the right coins, and you could profit handsomely. The problem is sifting the gems out of the wasteland that is the alt crypto scene.

I believe this thread is about one of the best available gems out there, imo.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FireSquirrel on August 15, 2014, 04:59:48 PM
Hellow Fellow Bitshare Familey!!!

I'm supper new to this and Just Discovered Bitshares and got some BitsharesX last week. Today I'm reading about this thing on the 21 and the PTS.... What is your opinions on the smartest rought for a small investor. Should I continue putting money into BitsharesX every paycheck or Get in on the PTS?

Also I need to Purchase a new computer so if my BitsharesX and PTS are temporarily stored in a trading site do I still get the same Beniffits.  I have seen posts Stating if your holding shares in your Wallet just wanted to make sure I didn't miss out by not having my personal wallet established?

Thanks So Much!!


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on August 15, 2014, 06:43:51 PM
Hellow Fellow Bitshare Familey!!!

I'm supper new to this and Just Discovered Bitshares and got some BitsharesX last week. Today I'm reading about this thing on the 21 and the PTS.... What is your opinions on the smartest rought for a small investor. Should I continue putting money into BitsharesX every paycheck or Get in on the PTS?

Also I need to Purchase a new computer so if my BitsharesX and PTS are temporarily stored in a trading site do I still get the same Beniffits.  I have seen posts Stating if your holding shares in your Wallet just wanted to make sure I didn't miss out by not having my personal wallet established?

Thanks So Much!!

Hi FireSquirrel

Ideally you want to hold anything you have in a wallet in case a trading site gets hacked or something.
I think both BTC38 will honour the snapshot and I think bter will too. (Meaning if you have your PTS on bter on 21st they should honour you with the shares you deserve.) However hopefully someone else can confirm that.

I'm not sure which one is better, I would probably lean towards more in BTSX as they're about to release some cool stuff. (BitUSD - the first time you will be able to hold something resembling the value of dollar in a decentralised way.)

At the same time the snapshots are just around the corner and I have just read Ethereum is considering using DPOS by BitShares and will honour PTS if they do, so it's tough! (Holding PTS on the 21st will get you a share in some cool DAC's and at Ethereum may honour PTS too at a later stage it seems (but not on 21st obv)...) https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6990.0


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: brekyrself on August 16, 2014, 12:59:14 AM
This could also be great for PTS holders... Exciting times are upon us.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=740684.msg8369366#msg8369366


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: megashira1 on August 16, 2014, 10:11:17 AM
lucky for PTS sellers on BTER all the way up to .0099


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: CLains on August 16, 2014, 07:23:09 PM
BitShares X and PTS are going up even in this terrible weather with bitcoin doing poorly and NXT getting stolen,

To see why BitShares PTS is rising, visit this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=732434.0).

As for why BitShares X is rising, I think it is just because people realize it is awesome!


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: Tradingriver on August 17, 2014, 08:20:14 AM
Hellow Fellow Bitshare Familey!!!

I'm supper new to this and Just Discovered Bitshares and got some BitsharesX last week. Today I'm reading about this thing on the 21 and the PTS.... What is your opinions on the smartest rought for a small investor. Should I continue putting money into BitsharesX every paycheck or Get in on the PTS?

Also I need to Purchase a new computer so if my BitsharesX and PTS are temporarily stored in a trading site do I still get the same Beniffits.  I have seen posts Stating if your holding shares in your Wallet just wanted to make sure I didn't miss out by not having my personal wallet established?

Thanks So Much!!

cost averaging is anytime a good solution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_cost_averaging

in the long run you have not to try to pick the best point.

so right now?
- PTS is going up till 21 august. after that it will fall. You can also wait for the both new projects to get traded (bitshares DNS and bitshares vote) so you could choose which project do you like more.



Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: Fernandez on August 17, 2014, 08:42:30 AM
so right now?
- PTS is going up till 21 august. after that it will fall. You can also wait for the both new projects to get traded (bitshares DNS and bitshares vote) so you could choose which project do you like more.

I think its better to try and get PTS after the snapshot. Both the projects doesn't seem too profit making to me.
Maybe get them as low as below 0.005 BTC per PTS, one can hope.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: coinsortium on August 18, 2014, 08:28:48 PM
PTS price dropping a bit before snapshot?  because of BTC dropping? or weak hands in PTS selling?

My guess is a little of both


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: brekyrself on August 19, 2014, 01:48:26 AM
PTS price dropping a bit before snapshot?  because of BTC dropping? or weak hands in PTS selling?

My guess is a little of both

A lot of sell depth has been added to Cryptsy.  This would make great for someone holding BTC to just scoop it up cheap and sell after the snapshot?


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: jabo38 on August 19, 2014, 02:24:17 AM
Step 1: make or buy an alt
Step 2: tell everyone it is cool and that the price is about to go up and they better not miss it
Step 3: Sell
Step 4: become rich


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: brekyrself on August 19, 2014, 04:58:46 AM
Step 1: make or buy an alt
Step 2: tell everyone it is cool and that the price is about to go up and they better not miss it
Step 3: Sell
Step 4: become rich

What does that have to do with PTS?  PTS is not an alt coin, its used as an investment vehicle.  Interesting to see if people will hold PTS through the snapshot or simply purchase DNS and Vote DACs afterwards.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: counter on August 20, 2014, 05:54:21 PM
Hellow Fellow Bitshare Familey!!!

I'm supper new to this and Just Discovered Bitshares and got some BitsharesX last week. Today I'm reading about this thing on the 21 and the PTS.... What is your opinions on the smartest rought for a small investor. Should I continue putting money into BitsharesX every paycheck or Get in on the PTS?

Also I need to Purchase a new computer so if my BitsharesX and PTS are temporarily stored in a trading site do I still get the same Beniffits.  I have seen posts Stating if your holding shares in your Wallet just wanted to make sure I didn't miss out by not having my personal wallet established?

Thanks So Much!!

Hi FireSquirrel

Ideally you want to hold anything you have in a wallet in case a trading site gets hacked or something.
I think both BTC38 will honour the snapshot and I think bter will too. (Meaning if you have your PTS on bter on 21st they should honour you with the shares you deserve.) However hopefully someone else can confirm that.

I'm not sure which one is better, I would probably lean towards more in BTSX as they're about to release some cool stuff. (BitUSD - the first time you will be able to hold something resembling the value of dollar in a decentralised way.)

At the same time the snapshots are just around the corner and I have just read Ethereum is considering using DPOS by BitShares and will honour PTS if they do, so it's tough! (Holding PTS on the 21st will get you a share in some cool DAC's and at Ethereum may honour PTS too at a later stage it seems (but not on 21st obv)...) https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6990.0

How does the DAC's get destributed?  Do I need to have a certain amount to get them, if I have more is that better?  I'm holding coins on Polo at the moment and wasn't sure if I needed the wallet so hopefully they will be able to make it work so I get the DAC's without an issue..  Going to have to ask the staff in chat but if anybody has any info on this topic I'd really appreciate it.  I'm kinda busy today and don't have a bunch of time to find all info, thanks.  :)


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: testz on August 20, 2014, 05:59:04 PM

How does the DAC's get destributed?  Do I need to have a certain amount to get them?  I'm holding coins on Polo at the moment and wasn't sure if I needed the wallet so hopefully they will be able to make it work so I get the DAC's without an issue..  Going to have to ask the staff in chat but if anybody has any info on this topic I'd really appreciate it.  I'm kinda busy today and don't have a bunch of time to find all info, thanks.  :)

Better if you double check this in the Polo chat, meanwhile we have only this info:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=7068.msg94715#msg94715


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: counter on August 20, 2014, 06:48:32 PM
Hey testz,  :)
I really appreciate the help and info, I'll be sure to take your advice and check in chat for some clarification.  Also will be sure to checkout that link when I get a chance because I'm not sure if I have till the end of the 21 or what..  Thanks for the help again,cheers !  :)

edit: for all those like me who are wondering..  I just asked in the polo chat and they will be issuing the DAC's to users that buy PTS at POLO


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: testz on August 20, 2014, 07:40:09 PM
Hey testz,  :)
I really appreciate the help and info, I'll be sure to take your advice and check in chat for some clarification.  Also will be sure to checkout that link when I get a chance because I'm not sure if I have till the end of the 21 or what..  Thanks for the help again,cheers !  :)

edit: for all those like me who are wondering..  I just asked in the polo chat and they will be issuing the DAC's to users that buy PTS at POLO

Welcome.  :)
Join the forum https://bitsharestalk.org, you see interesting discussions and will know a lot of information about all cryptos (not copy/pasta coins).

Update: Forums voting results: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=738375.0


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: penelopehead on August 21, 2014, 02:05:13 AM
Took the plunge today with a small amount.

Not expecting a doubling or tripling of price in the next 45 days though. Looking for an increase of price over time plus the benefit of automatic shares in upcoming DAC launches.


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: mavromixalakis on August 21, 2014, 12:07:01 PM
Quote
Not expecting a doubling or tripling of price in the next 45 days though

You will be surprised my friend! :)


Title: Re: Bitshares-PTS to double/triple in price in the next 45 days!!?
Post by: FandangledGizmo on August 21, 2014, 02:05:21 PM
Took the plunge today with a small amount.

Not expecting a doubling or tripling of price in the next 45 days though. Looking for an increase of price over time plus the benefit of automatic shares in upcoming DAC launches.

Yeah the 45 days expired mid August, but I was anticipating at the time a couple of snapshots which only took place today.

While I keep some PTS to get shares in the DAC's. I also moved some BTC into PTS just for a trade.

I was very happy with the trade though. Because I bought for 0.0067 & sold @ 85. So while all the alts were taking a dive and in a bloodbath, PTS held up well and rose for me 30%+ vs. Bitcoin. Had the situation been different for alts last week I think we could of seen PTS out-perform and get to the doubling level, I'd anticipated. (They did hit 0.0099 a few days ago on bter but I didn't get to sell at that price myself)

You should expect a fall in PTS price tomorrow as shares in the DNS DAC and Vote DAC are being snapshotted off PTS today I think.

http://i58.tinypic.com/2cpdxs4.png