Bitcoin Forum

Very exciting! I'm looking forward to seeing some pictures and learning the details.

It supports Paypal and Dwolla? WTF really? And how soon is it that it will be rendered useless because one of those providers hates it and doesn't want you on their service?

i love the irony in that statement :D

looking forward to pics/screenshots!

Subbed.   I am excited to see this as well.   A nice dedicated mobile terminal would be great.


Will it have network capabilities?

Even if this is total vaporware, it is still worth a kickstart.

Sounds exciting!
How about a free Ellet for those with 12 month magazine sub  ;D

There have been some muggings in my area lately.  If someone holds me at knifepoint and forces me to transfer all of the money from my account to them, is there a process for me to retrieve it?

looking forward to pics.

Pics or it didnt happen...

Have you considered a "freemium" model.  Well more like financing.   Why not give the devices away, but hardcode some fees be sent to you for a period of time until $30 is hit or something.

I sense a sock puppet meltdown approaching.

pics or it didn't happen

I can vouch that this product does in fact exist.

The same thing could happen with any sort of money. They could force you to go to an ATM and do the same thing.

But this wouldn't have to be done in public.

Watching.

At least the ATM will have a camera to film the event.

And the bank would generally refund the money, same with fraud on a credit card.  I'm wondering if there is a process setup here for a refund in case I am robbed of my bitcoins.

What you are describing is insurance. I'm sure that if enough people want this kind of service somebody will be willing to start a business that provides it. Don't expect that service to be free, however.

How likely is some random mugger to even realise what the device is and that it can be used to transfer funds?  It seems more likely that they'll steal the device thinking it's a tablet than that they'll realise its true purpose.

However, would it possible to build into the technology a "disable" code Matthew - a number which could be punched in to totally disable the device for a set period and which could only be later over-ridden by multi-factor account owner verification?  It sounds like something which should be possible.

Source?

Banks don't typically refund the money from debit card transactions at an ATM that require a PIN. I've actually never heard of banks giving free money away to people who tell others their ATM pin number. Seems like a good way to make money if true.

More likely they will think it's an iPod than a tablet. The size is no where near tablet size as it's smaller than most mobile phones.


It's something we are discussing but every feature that enables control also opens the door to potential vulnerabilities later on. A GPS inside the device that only the owner knows the ID of would also be useful in tracking and recovering the lost device or leading the police to their location if stolen, but such a feature would also turn privacy obsessed individuals off out of some rather baseless fears of being tracked for net worth, etc.

First off, I would have reamed you a new asshole if you had posted this announcement on Reddit first, but it looks like that's not the case.

Second, for marketing purposes, I wouldn't (have) name it Ellet, for if one wants to learn more about this excellent device, Google results will have it buried below the fold (About 2,120,000 results). Elletia is not even a good choice: About 19,500 results. Hell, even Atlas could have accidentally done better, for Woolong Device is currently at about 182 results.

This post is in way dissing the team behind Ellet or the product itself, but damn it guys, let's at least get the name (w)right for marketing purposes alone.

~Bruno~

Interested

That really doesn't matter. If it gets any popularity at all it'll crush Ellet High School and a few long dead guys. I would think most pronounceable 5 letter combinations would have a lot more competition than Ellet.

I like both names, Bitdex and Ellet. Why not Bitelletdex?  :D

Bitlet not bad.

edit: yeah, that's what I'm calling it, bitlet

I like Bit-o-let.  and its portable too, but no that doesn't make it a port-o-let.

:D

Dibs on the first preorder ;D

http://www.wdfi.org/ymm/brochures/credit/check_cards.asp


You are absolutely not held liable for having your checking account wiped out at knifepoint as long as you report what occured.  And no, it's not a good way to make money since if you try to do this with your friend one of you is going to be on camera at the ATM.  However, they also don't hold you liable for online purchases, just make sure you aren't buying something that can be traced back to you if you want to take the extremely unwise attempt to scam this way.


My checking account is free, I'm not paying for any insurance on it.  


So it sounds like this system has some serious security kinks that need to be worked out, I'm not sure why I should be held liable if funds are stolen with this device but not with my debit card.

Of course you are. You just don't notice it because it's never itemized anywhere on a bill.

Because there is no bill.

Because the service is free.

Of course it is.

Another Matthew N. Wright project launch!

I'm on pins and needles!

Bitcoinpurse
Webbet
iPaid
Bitfold
Coindex
Dwallet
PGPocketbook
E-Greeder
Spendle
Personal Digital Accountant
PocketBank
Mobile Exchange Device
TxRx
One Bitcoin Per Child
BlockBerry

;D
Damn, subbed

LOL

It could just be me, but I am failing to see the benefit of such a thing when compared to a smartphone?

The Spendura

Great project!
Can you somehow make or email recipts, since its needed for stores to give to customers.

Time to chime in again, now that a proper naming discussion has taken hold.

I offer up BitCirrus, as in a Bitcoin Cloud held in your hand, coupled with taken Bitcoin to the next level, thus making it a more serious contender. Maybe even better could be BitCirr or Bitcirr or bitcirr or bitsirr (as in bitcoins please, sir), but I digress. Back to BitCirrus with one of the domains being bitcirr.us.

Now we need a slogan, one incorporating a word(s) related to clouds and the transferring of money (coins).

BitCirrus: Bitcoin Clouds in Motion (first attempt, but try to do better)

~Bruno~

EDIT: Damn if this image doesn't personify what I'm trying to relay here. You can see the bitcoins flowing in this image--from one hand to another.

http://aura.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/science/auratop10/Cirrus.jpg

Interesting idea. I'm curious about the reliability of the permanant backup storage.

Subed!

Just to turn the knife...BitcoiniCard

Edit: Just a few more...
Americoin Express
MasterCoin
Miners Club
Diskover
Visatoshi
Merkle Lynch
NonCents
Hashberry

Money is money. The distinction between Bitcoin, Namecoin, Litecoin, Paypal, MoneyBookers, NETELLER, or most other online transaction solutions is not clearly made by the average consumer, which is why it will support most every method of payment that the average consumer uses.

For those who are disenchanted by this not being a Bitcoin-only device (because bitcoin!), let me first say that the decision came with a lot of thought. The only way Bitcoin will ever succeed is if it's allowed proper competition. Being unknown is not proper competition, but neither is forcing consumers to use only Bitcoin (which effectively puts it dead in the water). Creating a free market environment where you are allowed to use Bitcoin side-by-side with other digital currencies is the best way to outline the benefits of Bitcoin that bitcoiners brag about so often. If this makes you nervous as a bitcoiner, then it means we've failed to provide a valuable and trustworthy digital currency and Bitcoin is inherently flawed.

People will eventually choose Bitcoin if it's faster, cheaper, and more reliable for them. As far as adoption speaks, the Ellet is the first truly realistic attempt at getting Bitcoins in the hands of every consumer on the planet.

And let's forget the userbase for a multi-money/currency device will be much larger. This will lead to many more people being exposed to Bitcoin and exposure is key. Once they see the advantages Bitcoin can offer, they will surely consider using it.

This is great. The name is also good, it doesn't need changing. :)

Quit being such a condescending dick. Of course it can be free. My checking account actually pays me interest, and the interest is actually greater than that of my savings account. Additionally there are other perks, such as refunds of ATM fees, and more.

If you are using a shitty bank that charges you money to use a checking account, don't assume that all other banks suck that hard. Also, switch banks.

What is coming next week? Title makes it sound like the device is, but only reference to next week is the kickstarter?

And the name is fine, stop being nerds.

Aww come on, I loved "Merkle Lynch" lol ;D

To clarify, the fund raising efforts don't stop even with 50,000 units in the hands of consumers. The Ellet will be marketed all over the world (not a cheap or trivial endeavor) so there must be continued fund raising efforts, even at a small level at universities and such.

-I dont like the name, I guess its hard to settle on ellet when bitdex was so good. bitlet didnt seem so bad either.
-I dont like that it supports other currencies I only care about bitcoins as a digital currency and credit cards for USD but I understand why this is done, it is impressive if it can really support all of those especially dwolla and paypal.
-I dont like the reddit page that is a really stupid.

-good news? I love everything else about the device especially the 40hour battery life and all the ways to back up your wallet!

will it work off wifi?

I wish there were more informed and constructively critical consumers like yourself. This is how to give proper feedback on a product.

Your points are well received. I hesitate to list technical specifications at this point because although the feature set is highly unlikely to change, the hardware behind it may directly relative to manufacturing costs and difficulties, licensing, better solutions making themselves known, etc.

That is an excellent suggestion, some merchants offer this now on usd transactions i see no reason why out wouldn't be standard for all bitcoin merchant transactions much less transactions to a merchant from an ellet.

I generally try not to post negative commentary, but I think there's an obvious point being missed.  Even assuming this device is made perfectly, no bugs, ships on time, performs better then expected, is cheaper than projected, and looks cooler then cool... It's still going to fail.

Purchasing a separate device to use for payments (in addition to smartphone, WALLET/PURSE, ipad/tablet, etc...) is a D.O.A. concept for all but a few of us nerds.

Why would I carry around ANOTHER single-purpose device?  The money/time/energy would be better spent integrating this concept into NFC/Bluetooth smartphone transactions.  See how many smartphones around the world are already being used for micropayments.  If you could one-up them by adding paypal, dwolla, btc, etc, you might have a viable business model.

I do think its a cool idea in a geek-cred sort of way - but global adoption? C'mon.  Even if BTC became the dominant worldwide currency, you could still make a P.O.S. purchase with a QR code of your BTC address using your smartphone; or some other method using existing tech.

'Who is picking up the check for lunch today?'
'Not me, I forgot to charge my wallet!'

Sorry, but -1.

I would wear a device on my wrist that doubles as a watch and lets me do all the things the ellet is claimed to do :)

This is something ive been looking forward to. Phones are hard to secure - with a mish-mash of closed source programs its hard to keep track of whats going on. In this sense iphone is very failed. Android is failed in this sense a little less but has other problems. In particular i saw an exploit where permissions where broken and also every app has read/write to the sdcard.
Even blackberry isnt great especially the newer blackberries. Having a separate device, whether its this or another phone ( i.e replicant android with no binary blob dmodem drivers) is the only pragmatic way to go at the moment.

Certainly id buy one, especially if hackable and able to repurpose. Would buy one anyway at that price just for curiosities sake or give out as presents. Would make IOUs for family members a lot more efficient, if those family members need help with tech ewpecially.


Once again, comparing to fiat and credit is silly. Bitcoin is CASH. Thats the whole point. You dont carry round your savings in a duffle bag. Here you have to do the same.
Having lived in a cash society this is a culture change. When you go out for the day you have to guess how much cash to take with you. Its a bit inconvenient at first but youre so much more in control and you know exactly what you have.  Unlike cash fiat though its yours.

Cash societies would understand this better. People used to debit and credit cards wont understabd until they go to pay and cant. Those are the people who need to be given these for christmas and birthdays.

Exactly this.
And seeing with how much fear MWN started to attack this bitcoincard thing (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78171.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78171.0)), I cannot resist feeling that this bitcoin card is indeed the future.

I like Matthew and he's done a bang-up job with the magazine, but I have to agree here.  The key to getting wider adoption is absolutely, positively in making better software, not hardware.  

I'm sure over the years, dozens of aspiring Facebook employees wanted to make a portable "facebook device", and every one of them got shot down in flames.  The same reason why Palm Pilot went bust as soon as phones became small enough.

The proper way to make bitcoin usable is add it onto the devices people carry around with them already, mainly a mobile phone.  I have an ipod, but I never use it anymore, now that I can put my music on my phone.  I have stacks of CDs that are collecting dust, I never use them anymore, I just plug my phone into the car AUX jack.

My wallet I would love to consolidate.  it's full of paper money, receipts, credit cards, debit cards, gift cards, a whole bunch of crap that needs to be consolidated and digitized.  I feel like its the equivalent of carrying around a case of CDs.  

I'm hoping that YC will get a great product out of piuk to solve this problem.

"Ellet" sounds awful  :o

Tony, thanks for the comment. I've heard this argument before even with other projects like Yifu's tablet but ultimately all that matters is what consumers want and what the product can do.

All obvious security benefits aside, I don't think the argument of consumers not wanting multiple devices has ever had any merit. One need look no further than iPod to see that. Mobile phones have the same mp3 playing functionality, but proper branding, marketing and a feature list made it a household device all across the world.

Let the free market decide!

I'm not so sure this will fly as a consumer device, but if it has good POS functionality it might be just the thing to get retail operations on board with bitcoin. Imagine a small shop with a couple teenagers as cashiers. You don't want them using their own smartphones or the store owner's to do POS transactions, but having a small and cheap device next to the cash register would be easy to integrate into your regular operations.

Having some way for it to be integrated into an existing POS system would be very helpful (at least for those businesses that care about accurate accounting).

ipod sales have been declining for years my friend.  phones are the trend.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/news/2012-01/apple_sales_ipod_q1fy2012.png

http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/news/2012-01/apple_sales_iphone_q1fy2012.png

Nothing is free (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost). I'm not going to try to force you to understand the mechanisms by which you pay for the services you receive from your bank; but if you're old enough to to be posting on an online forum you really should have figured out by now that perpetual motion doesn't exist anywhere in the universe and so should already be suspicious about any claim of "free".

So what you are counting on is becoming a greater huckster than Apple?  You certainly do need to raise many more millions of dollars in funds... or maybe you can choose a larger font for your announcements. ( and you didn't answer BadBear's question, "What is coming next week?" )
I can't see the market deciding for this over an app they can put on their phone.

I personally think there is some fallacy in thinking "Why would someone carry another electronic device when their are smartphones that already facilitate Bitcoin transactions?"

Wish i could remember which one it was called tho.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies


Seriously tho if you really trust that all smartphone manufactures are not hiding packets of data that send statistical usage and data behind your back(without your consent) then please continue to use the smartphones to trust your money with it.

 I know for a fact that after seeing all these hackings with Bitcoins I guarantee their will be businesses(more like scammers) in the future that their sole purposes is to sell cheap smartphones with some (mischievously-altered) open source operating system preloaded on it that will send your private keys to the server and the worst part of it all is that they will encrypt the data so you don't even know what they are sending and those businesses will succeed from selling private keys to other companies and of course on top of selling smart phones to all those who think that fallacy above is true. -- That is all.

Ps. Heck in the future when Bitcoins hits masspopulation/mainstream their will be college kids saying "Hey bro you wanna make some money?", "Sure how?", "lets sell our (altered)phones to innocent people and when they receive Bitcoins on their smartphone they will be automatically sent to us instead"

Why should the average consumer trust this new device any more than existing devices? Because Bitcoin!   ;)

Why do I need to be suspicious? I have a balance sheet with hard numbers on it. Are you going to argue with math and hard numbers?

As for the opportunity cost, well there is no cost if it isn't any worse than the other options, in terms of features and rates.

And I really don't know how the heck you got to the conclusion that anything was "perpetual". Just because one service pays out doesn't mean that there isn't another that sucks it right back in again. I just don't happen to use the credit services that charge 25% APR just because they can. So sue me for not using credit in the way that a bank would like me to, and leaching off of the non-credit, paying services.

That's a very good point, thanks for bringing that up. Now I can explain why this device should be open source with justification but I can't declare I have any control to make that decision for this product but someone else had to bring it up(besides me) to make it real.

Unfortunately software alone will never be secure enough to protect the private keys of non-tech people. No matter how much you invest in your software, it cannot be more secure than the environment it runs at. And if the environment is "generic", it is not secure.
A dedicated device is needed for security purposes.


That said, I also wonder if people would like to carry another device around. Maybe for daily spends, smartphone apps are the way to go. Devices like this would be kept home, to access your savings account.
Don't know, let's see how it goes.

The "having another device" issue is the main reason why I am looking forward to a card that fits in my wallet.

The original question was whether or not the fraud protection provided by banks was free or not. It is not free because the resources the bank uses to refund your money in the event of a stolen card, for example, are resources they aren't using to pay you a higher interest rate on your deposits or provide other services. Likewise, deposit insurance is not free.

People who think the resources which are used to provide certain services in the traditional banking system magically appear out of thin air are going to be confused about why it doesn't work the same way in a Bitcoin economy.

I think i might stick that in meh sig.... well said!

I see, so if I use the bitcoin wallet instead am I going to get those extra interest payments from the wallet company instead of having them held by the bank?  And then I can pay for my insurance with them?

Very true, but the original argument was whether a user paid specifically for fraud protection, perhaps as a line item. Not where the funds to cover it came from. I am not disputing that banks create money or at least do so indirectly by getting funds from the fed.

Can the owner specify the server it will connect to, and eventually set up his own?

"Trust but Verify" is my motto. 

Here's a scenario for you.  I receive a paper check from a customer for $1,000 for services rendered.  I take a picture of said check with my smartphone, and it deposits that money into my bank account.  After ACH clearing that night, the next day I walk into my local bank and withdraw said $1,000.

This is a service supplied by several large US banks.  Personally my tin foil hat is just as large as yours appears to be and won't let me utilize this service, but vast numbers of the public do.


Hence my opinion that the time/energy/money being spent here would be better spent making the software and then hardening software/infrastructure etc.  If Chase Bank can [pay some developers to] do it, surely some group here in Bitcoinia (word?) can do it as well or better.

I want to go on record in stating that I don't dislike the name because of the way it sounds or looks (in fact, I'm intrigued by the word), but  I am against naming the product such from a marketing standpoint. Unless the domain ellet.com is own by the team, of which I seriously doubt,


then that fact alone makes it dead-in-the-water, I believe, coupled with the following: https://www.google.com/search?aq=f&sugexp=chrome,mod=14&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=ellet  =  About 2,120,000 results (0.15 seconds). That's the point I was trying to bring home.

In no way were my earlier posts meant as humor toward the product or Matthew. I was simply intrigued with the product and desire to see it succeed, but with proper branding. The product alone will have an uphill battle, so why add improper SEO into the mix, starting with the product's name.

Allow me to illustrate:

Bob: Nice product you have there. What is it?
Alice: It's an Ellet. I never have to carry any forms of money again, for it's all safely stored on my portable cloud.
Bob: Neat! How do you spell that?
Alice: E-L-L-E-T.
Bob: Great! Simple enough. I'll look it up when I get home. (or search on his smartphone when he has more time)
BoB: (later that same day, he searches for Ellet, remembering the spelling) What the fuck! So many results. Maybe I spelled it wrong. I don't have time for this. Too bad Alice was a stranger, or I would call her to get some more information about that great Ellet thing she had. Damn it!

Now, I hope that the above drives home the important point I've been trying to relay.

Later, Matthew.

~Bruno~

do you even self believe that? Anything, can be hacked. I don't care about nice and funky hardware features: it will be broken, FAST.

I believe it, its very feasible to have Ellet device not store anything at all and still be able to send bitcoins. Thus in the event of a stolen ellet device there is nothing on it to steal. The wallet seed could be stored by some other means(laminated paper, manually typing it in, or inserting and SD card,etc) and when the ellet device user is ready to send they load it up(This level of security is obviously for only people that hold alot of BTC in their device and/or use it for business transactions)

nothing on it -> can't make ecdsa signatures -> can't send bitcoins.
something on it -> hackable/stealable/cheatable -> can send bitcoins.
seed-on-paper approach -> steal paper.

Load everything from from microsd card or paper

Store half of seed on the device, and other half on the paper and the other half is your password you manually type in.

or store nothing on the device, store half the seed on paper(QRcode or microsd card) and the other half in your brain that you manually type in upon wanting to load.
(This is obviously not the one size fits all solution as everyone has different security preferences but since we are down this road)

Wow, where can I buy some equity in this Matthew guy? He is quite an entrepreneur.

Such ambition! I can't wait ;D

In 6 months you'll know more.
Printed with smudgy ink

Two words - App Store  :)

2 words: kicked out

Apple will be implementing their own version of the bitcoin software on their devices, and only let you spend it on approved products and services. They wouldn't give that up to the likes of us.

So the seed has 3 halves?  Sounds complicated.

"Introducing... the One Point Five system! Three halves to be 1.5 times as secure! Coming to a pocket near you, as long as you have a good memory." ;D

Perhaps CCM is referring to this section of the OP:

If the intention is to follow Apple's "crystal prison (https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/05/apples-crystal-prison-and-future-open-platforms)" business model, I would want nothing to do with this device. 

Like I implied only for "serious" purchasing security that would be required to prevent large amounts of bitcoins being stolen in the event that you get the device stolen.

2nd and 3rd entries:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ellet+wallet


That's good enough for a start. Imagine if/once it actually ships.

It's already up to 1st and 2nd.

I love how SEO' specialists always try to relate high amount of search results with the "difficulty" of reaching the top rank.... lol

Cool initiative!
Some comments on the comments:
I have spoken with people at f-secure that say phones viruses, worms and exploits are plentiful. For smartphones, doubly so. Much easier to compromise a wallet on a phone.
And why worry about the keys on this device if it is physically stolen? Will you even carry more btc on it than the device itself costs? And if you have the wallet backed up you have a chance to empty it before the thieves do.

Question: How would the process be, of me transferring btc to a friend or stranger who also carry such a device?
This is something a bitcoincard wouldn't be able to do, but which is necessary to emulate cash.

What makes you say that?

In German and in French, it doesnt sound appealing: Ellet :-\

Many valid questions here were never answered.
I, personally, won't hold my breath. But subscribing to this thread should be ok..

Ente

Ja, glaub auch, dass das eine Ente ist :(

Die einzige Ente hier bist Du!  :)

It seems you are the one trying to duck those valid questions.   ;)

This from their website:

So while the Ellet is self contained, the card isn't. Provided the answer to my question is positive - that this is indeed possible with the Ellet.

I didn't really read that as making it not possible to transfer between users, but that could be the case. Still awaiting more info.

I have tried "embedded key" solutions for mobile: they just do not work for me because there is the time when I want to make a quick send and the device wants to update its block chain.

I need to wait a few seconds or minutes and that turns the user experience to really bad compared to just any other payment solutions.

IMHO, thin clients (with backend hosted keys) are the way to go mobile.

The bitcoin cards could both store a copy of the signed transaction and the first to connect to a gateway could broadcast it to lock it in.

Exactly! This is not an issue with Ellet as it does not store the entire blockchain and uses a specially developed lite client.

Subbed.

A)I believe I have missed something. I've read through 6 pages of post. I don't see anywhere where it verifies the person sending you the bitcoins actually has them. Can I make a copy of my wallet at one point in time, clone it to a second SDCARD, put it on 2 ellets and send money to 2 people? It doesn't store the blockchain. So if you are in a place with no wireless and no cellular, I can't possibly see how you can't clone your wallet and spend twice. I mean hell, someone can find a way to open one, kill the antennae, and just walk around spending a bucket load of money at say a trade convention. Lets go a step further. Find the spectrum this uses and kill it with a jammer. You could walk around all day just going "oh look, no signal here. Have 30 bucks" and disappear into the shadows.

B) As others said. The name isn't very good, but whatever. It doesn't flow if you ask me.

C) This will be hacked. Saying it can't, just makes you a bigger target. This deals with money, you already have a large mark on your back. See: iphone, onstar, etc

D) I'd say an app I can put on any phone I'm already I'm carrying in my pocket would be a huge plus. I'm not opposed to another device, depending on the size. When you carry a gun in one pocket, earbuds,gum,cellphone in another and a wallet in one back pocket, you really don't wan't to have leave an implant in the other cheek.

E) If you can get it to the right size and display the time, this would make a great watch replacement. Heck, I still might build a strap to keep it on my wrist, no worries about theft under a long shirt then.

EDIT:F) Accept credit cards. I got a square up device a bit ago. This is awesome for me when I'm at shows. Instant payment that everyone already has, especially when they don't carry around a few $100 in cash. As for the fee, I add it to their total.

I have used Square several times to sell bitcoins to my friends, using their debit card or credit card.  the swipe plus signature will minimize the risk.  plus you know the person, so duh.

Cheers to that. I actually like this concept for even selling locally to non friends.

I don't think this is a competitor to the Bitcoincard, but a companion instead. In fact, it might behoove the developers to optimize these to facilitate both systems to work together. Bitcoincard is not a Point of Sales device. I'm sure there are more ways to integrate the systems.

As far as "A" goes you mis understand how transactions are proccesed with lite bitcoin clients. This device verifies from multiple servers to increase confidence and will output the level of confidence it has when sending,recieivng or checking balances. Something bitcoindcard dosent have the proccessing power to check for(although that is an assumption about bitcoincard specs i could be wrong)

Looks like a hit! though im not so sure about 50,000 selling... theres around 56,000 members on this forum that it is being announced on and i doubt that almost 90% will buy one as would be needed...  ::)

Although this post is on a Bitcoin forum and the title says "The world's first handheld Bitcoin device", this is not in fact being marketed as a Bitcoin device to the outside world (which is arguably why it will succeed). Bitcoin is just one of many currencies usable.

Would you be willing to reveal more that will be usable than the 4 mentioned in the OP?

As mentioned before, I don't want to get into technical specifics as things can change during the manufacturing process and some options and features may no longer be viable, while new ones may present themselves.

The only payment service I can absolutely guarantee will be on it will be Bitcoin. Everything else will need to wait until the formal press release. Thanks for your patience.

Got it, sounds like a reasonable plan.

The keys do not have to be on the server for the device to be snappy. Try BitcoinSpinner for android or the Ellet once it is publicly available.

Boussac, you can also use Electrum servers.
These servers are open source, they use a open protocol called stratum, based on json.

You do not have to use the Electrum client with these servers, you can use them with your own client.
And you can run your own Electrum server.

Update: Added the following update to the first release statement.

• Connectivity -- The Ellet can connect on the go to any mobile network around the world, no need for any additional mobile accounts, bothersome SIM cards, or the purchase of any external repeater systems. It also works on Wifi too to provide you with uninterrupted signal to suit your needs.

how do you pay for that? internet is not free you know...

I was very aware of how lite clients work. Which is why I need this information in order for it to all make sense:

So without any wifi or cellular (granted hard to find today), these things won't work. It's a good thing.

It would be more secure.  "smart" phones are super easy to turn into "out of your control" phones.

Really, do tell. If there is no SIM card, that means it can only run on CDMA to access a general purpose mobile network, and those exist almost solely in the USA, since they are old, outdated technology. The rest of the world uses GSM, which requires a SIM.

I am aware that you can access mobile networks at a significantly reduced price for "telemetry" applications that do not require E911 access, but it isn't free and still requires the presence of an identifying technology such as a SIM card or hardcoded MEID (or R-UIM cards locked to specific hardware).

So tell us: What exactly is this magical new no-cost global network, what specific technology is it based on, and how do you plan on it remaining free? I assume at this point that it is free because of your statement "no need for any additional mobile accounts".

So, if all that is possible who is paying to track Bitcoin users wherever they go? Because that's what will happen, just like with cell phones.
Matthew, contact the DEA and you might get all the funding you need from them.

I'm pretty sure using any of the cellular stuff will get make you pseudo traceable along with semi accurate positioning. However I'm no expert. This was part of the reason I was curious to the "connectivty" that was lacking before I asked about it.

Again I've only skimmed, however will this device be able to utilized VPN access? I'd think at this point that it should be taken for granted it would.

Please go ahead and hack my phone. My number is +1 (650) 426-8720.
Yes, it contains BTC.

No thanks.  I don't steal, and I have enough to do this summer.  There are ways to secure your phone, but many default installs are vulnerable.

i think he was referring more to what backdoors carriers have installed.  whats that program;  Carrier IQ?

mhm.

Problem is not *your* phone getting hacked but some bitcoin price widget that is installed on millions of phones turn into a bitcoin steal widget sending all the money from all those phones home.

Sorry, I have tried Bitcoinspinner extensively and it is not always snappy..

It will never be as fast as a thin client like paytunia because a thin client does not need to update a local chain.

If I'm not mistaken, Android applications are sandboxed and do not have access to other applications private data.

makes me wonder why their even is an anti-virus built into android then....

sandbox can be broken, app could have "Chernobyl"-permissions. shit could happen...

Jeez, you guys are really criticizing this pre-announcement. You haven't even given the "backers" a chance to postpone the actual announcement.

Putting something like this in a watch is very interesting idea indeed.

Indeed, my $30 has already been spent on this.

Is this device real?

Elletsys.com won't load. Kickstarter finds nothing when searching or Ellet. Anybody know the creators?

I'm not at liberty to say  8)

This is off topic but I don't know what you're talking about. BitcoinSpinner is a thin client, it doesn't have a local blockchain. It uses a server to handle the blockchain. Private keys are stored on the device, the neat thing is that it doesn't require any registration.

I don't understand how this device will connect to the network without SIM.
I also don't understand how this could work globally.

Anyway, wish you good luck with this project!

Should of read the first post better. Its not on kickstarter yet it will be soon. If you mouse over elletsys.com you can see that <elletsys.com> is the text they put over for the link(like saying click <here>), it actually leads to a reddit page. Its not even a redirect.

That's correct. KickStarter is a final stage and more or less for presentation and sales channels only. Going on KickStarter too early in the game is a huge risk to losing investors.

ElletSys.com is still being developed. In the meantime, you can follow the reddit and discuss relevant topics there.

So, once again here you are presenting vapourware.
You should've learnt your lesson with the magazine.
You should also learn not to accuse other of presenting vapourware when you do exactly the same the thing.

You're a great guy Matthew, but you should learn to deal with competition a little better. The way you deal with it doesn't put you in a good light.

You lost me here. Are you referring to the website itself which I didn't link to or the actual product which has already been built?

Funny you mention that. Making the first issue of the Bitcoin magazine was a very humbling experience. Despite the constant trolling from the community, I did exactly what I set out to do and everything came together nicely. In fact, when it was finally received by the first readers it received more upvotes on Reddit than any post I've ever seen on /r/Bitcoin  :D. I think although there were many skills learned during the development days of the magazine, the community is the one who needed to learn a lesson from that one.



You lost me again. Ellet is hardly vaporware. Please state your points and evidence if you expect a response.


I appreciate the words of advice and I'll mull them over, however I think yourself included, many people here jump to conclusions as to the reasoning behind things far too easily. Bitcoinica hacked? "IT WAS ZHOUTONG!" Magazine late? "IT WAS A SCAM!"

I will gladly take the advice of the community but offer the advice of having some patience as well. I'm working on resolving the issues with ElletSys.com as we speak.

Only you say that the device exists and was already built...
Why should I or anyone else believe in you?

Don't believe me then.

When the videos and photos come out this week too, don't believe them.

When it's announced that 50,000 units are manufactured, don't believe it then either.

When your friends are holding it in their hands and using it on a daily basis, don't believe it then either.

I don't know what you want me to say. I cannot be your babysitter in life.

I exist here in ElletSys to be useful, create interesting services, products and technologies, and to support it with all that I know.

If you're judging me on my presentation, you're probably being thrown off by the fact that in the past I am well known for having fun while doing my job. I'm not going to change that just so a handful of detractors will have less FUD to spread.

If you're judging me on my attacks of other supposed hardware that makes claims that not even Apple would make, then you are wasting your time with me because there are much more prominent figures with much deeper pockets who will say the same thing upon learning of their claims.

Have some patience, argue your points with evidence, do whatever you like. It doesn't change anything.

What would happen to your plans for the Ellet should the claims regarding the Bitcoincard turn out to be true?

Personally speaking, I'd be so excited for them for actually creating new technology that billions in technology investments across the world could not put together. It would be revolutionary.

Officially, It wouldn't affect the Ellet at all as the Ellet is intended to be a functional payment device capable of handling -all- relevant payment methods, utilize the infinite amount of existing infrastructure out there, and provide a marketable form factor and feature set that will bring non-bitcoiners into Bitcoin. Bitcoincard seems to be a nerds toy (no offense) with little to no chance of any kind of adoption in a real world environment. Also, given it's supposed form factor, it is more in competition with Casascius coins than the Ellet.

Yifu is also making a secure tablet for Bitcoin transactions. We have discussed this before several times, that neither of us are in competition with each other either as we offer completely different tools for completely different purposes.

The comments on some threads from some detractors that I'm "scared" of bitcoincard is just not true. I was hopeful, but then did my homework. The claims that I'm "bothered" by it are very true. As I was mentioning on IRC, it always bothers me when vaporware takes center stage over similar new technologies with actual working models. It's just a lesson to future scammers that deceptive marketing and flashy gadgets are apparently the only thing that gets bitcoiners' attention.

I as much as anyone else cannot wait much longer for the official Ellet announcement with all the proof everyone is looking for. It's on the top of my priorities now that the magazine is moderately self-sustaining.



This post as well as yours will surely be deleted shortly as they are completely off-topic but I do feel it deserves a response of some sort. The magazine advertisers were in contact with us the entire time. You do not give us much credit for resolving issues and like most in the community assume way too much.

The plans to make a magazine in the first place were mine, but once you have a Board of Directors with experience in distribution, infrastructure, security, etc, you lose your ability to discuss every intimate detail with the open public. I promised that I'd keep the community involved in the direction and content of the magazine, but no one said I had to make it easy for competitors to compete.  ;)

Hence the rushed up announcement on his part... The Bitcoincard workshop was coming and he needed to build some hype for his own vapourware as a way to try and fade out the hype for the Bitcoincard vapourware.
I wasn't going to say anything, but after seeing him attacking BitcoinCard, while doing exactly the same thing with this Ellet, didn't felt quite right to me.

PS: I think any kind of Bitcoin wallet with an included tracking system sucks, so, that includes the Bitcoincard and the Ellet.
You won't see me buying any, that's for sure. My cell phone is enough, thank you.

But the big difference is that this bitcoincard can be seen on images and videos, while this mnw vaporware seems to exists only mnws imagination. And that seems to make it necessary for mnw to constantly spreading FUD in the bitcoincard thread.

I can see that this is just a baiting trolls at this point and will post again here only when there is an update worth sharing with the community. Blatant slander, baseless accusations and further FUD based on individual's opinions of what they think I'm doing will be completely ignored and removed if off-topic.

Thanks!

I can agree that your devices don't seem to be in quite the same market, but you do appear to be threatened by their claims.  Would the Ellet be capable of updating it's core software, if the Bitcoincard became the dominate system for bitcoin transactions offline?  Said another way, would the Ellet be able to talk the Bitcoincard protocol.  That's the real question.


But that is the problem, I've actual photos of Bitcoincards.  Granted, still photos can be faked; but I have nothing at all from you concerning the Ellet.  From my perspectives, it's the Ellet that is vaporware.  At a minimum, the Bitcoincard guys have working test models.  I saw a youtube video of two such cards (sitting less than a foot from each other, mind you) perform a transaction on video.  A transaction that can be verified via the bitcoin blockchain.  If the bitcoincard is vaporware, the fog is getting pretty thick.

Just do as I say, Don't do as I do.

Not threatened, annoyed by vaporware. Call it overjoy that made me want to announce without a photo, but anyone trying to convince the baker that he isn't baking a cake just because they aren't eating it yet is only going to receive puzzled looks from the baker. If however that baker claims he is baking a cake larger than the oven itself, then you can make some claims and ask some questions (which is what I've been doing to the bitcoincard).

I don't see how anything standard would be able to talk to that non-standard device. I guess we could go out of our way to add specific hardware to our device that would allow it to talk to bitcoincard, but I don't see any company would do that that didn't have a contract directly with the other company. Put in other words, do iPhones have built in receivers for ham radio?

Fair enough. Come back when there are photos. Until then, (advice to others) do not embarrass yourselves again with calling things fake just because of who is developing them. When this comes out and I move on to my next project, is the point going to get across then that I'm serious about what I do and all you need do is wait?

You believe this?


I'm having trouble finding any videos other than the one on Vimeo which shows only one device, highly cropped/edited, all timing between transactions obfuscated, no actual provable process, with a laptop that more than likely sent the coins from the client to itself from another computer to simulate the process. I can be skeptical too, but apparently my reasons for being skeptical are the most logical. No photos does not make something vaporware. Fake videos and inviting investors to a 'secret meeting' screams vaporware imho.

I'll be posting later in the week with more information to parties interested in the Ellet. We've made another change to the form factor that I'm sure will assist in its marketability to non-bitcoiners.

Thanks for following!

http://blog.bitinstant.com/blog/2012/6/8/bitcoincard-in-vienna-day-1-coffee-missing-atms-and-some-tes.html (http://blog.bitinstant.com/blog/2012/6/8/bitcoincard-in-vienna-day-1-coffee-missing-atms-and-some-tes.html)
But of course, this is a conspiracy of Gavin, Charly, Erik, Armir and all other bitcoin celebrities against you.
And I am pretty sure that Bitcoin magazine in those pictures is also faked, or at least an unlicensed reprint ;)

sub.  why is there no way to subscribe to threads without posting?  fix this forum please.

This post as well as yours will surely be deleted shortly as they are completely off-topic but I do feel it deserves a response of some sort. The magazine advertisers were in contact with us the entire time. You do not give us much credit for resolving issues and like most in the community assume way too much.

The plans to make a magazine in the first place were mine, but once you have a Board of Directors with experience in distribution, infrastructure, security, etc, you lose your ability to discuss every intimate detail with the open public. I promised that I'd keep the community involved in the direction and content of the magazine, but no one said I had to make it easy for competitors to compete.  ;)
[/quote]

I know we're off topic, but your initial magazine announcement did claim distribution through Barnes & Noble.  When will I be able to pick up a copy at my local store?  I almost bought some advertising space because of this claim and I'd be pissed if I had.  Maybe "the community" is not the only one who needed to learn.  In the past you have overpromised and underdelivered.  I hope you have learned from these errors.

Thank you for your constructive criticism. We're still working through the long process of being distributed in Barnes & Noble. As was mentioned, the review period is up to 3 months after the first issue is printed. They are already reviewing it and I am in regular talks with the distribution manager for Barnes & Noble's accounts.  The reason nothing is announced is that there is nothing to announce yet. Thank you for the kind words though. We're all looking forward to the already internationally available magazine to be distributed in bookstores as well, even at an almost guaranteed loss to gain exposure to Bitcoin and continue doing our duty. Appreciate the support as always!

Good to hear... now get back to work on the Ellet!

Technically, yes they do.  A standard wifi chip is capable of transmitting & receiving in the nearby ham band (I beleive 70cm band IIRC) and use of these features require a ham callsign to be transmitted with the SSID.  There are two channels available, and are traditionally called Zero and -1, since they are on that side of the unlicensed wifi band.  Unlockling these capabilities, at a minumum requires rooting your phone, though.  In the ham world, this is commonly called the 'Hinternet'.  Google is your friend.


I believe that if it's a hoax, it's an elaborate one.

I have found nothing on google about "iphone" and "hinternet" :(

Also, the FCC doesn't allow encryption.  I know the standard bitcoin protocol doesn't use encryption, but does the ellet's use of the electrum protocol?

Now I really want to get out my HAM equipment.

'Ellet' is kind of wonky.
Share, 'share.io'
E-Wad
PENID - Personal Electronic Network Input/Output Device
PEBc - Prounounced 'peb-see' is the Personal Electronic Bitcoin Client
EMTY - Electronic Money Transaction Yeller
PEANT - Prounounced 'pee-nut' Personal Electronic Accounting with Network Transactions
DICC - Digital Interactive Currency Client 'How big is your DICC?' 'Even the Queen has a DICC.' 'Do you have a savings? No, I've been pissing it away.' 'Did you send the money? It's coming.'

How will the device fair when sloshing around in my pocket with the rest of my change?

I'm interested in see facts about the FCC not allowing encryption.
Also How would they prove the "static" they are hearing is encrypted code awaiting to be decrypted?

i think you would still be able to hear 1&0's. it would not be static.

Depends if you sent the values in analog or digital format ;)

true, but not if its encrypted. encrypted means digital.
if your gonna obfuscate analog signals, its called scrambling. ;)

I was under the impression scrambling is just a measure to prevent anyone from just "listening in" by turning on their ham radio--I'm talking about the following

Digital Represented values are encrypted into a Digital format by a key the receiver already knows.
The digital encrypted message is converted into analog values that are represented by a key table that the receiver already knows.
Now the sender broadcasts the message in analog(sound/light spectrum) but it isn't represented with two values, instead it is represented by the whole analog spectrum.
The receiver decodes the analog signal with a key table... Then decrypts the signal into digital represented values.

Im not sure what my "theory" would make the broadcast sound like to a listener but at least it doesn't sound like off and on ticks and thus the FCC would get a signal but it would be static... so the FCC could prove a signal is coming from somewhere but not know why they are broadcasting static :P (of course im still assuming my broadcast would sound like static or weird noises of some sort... makes me want to try it out...)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrambler
Wikipedia gives me the impression scrambling is just packets of analog signals moved in different positions in the timeline where the reciever has a decoder that buffers packets and then puts them in the correct order for play back.

I'm interested in your opinion because you seem to know what your talking about.

i don't think you can do that losslessly. there needs to be some kind of binary system in it, so you can make it digital again.

Very cool idea!  We're looking forward to trying one out.  Sorry if this has already been covered, but when do you expect you'll be able to deliver these?

I'm just going to briefly jump into this thread to correct some misinformation about amateur radio (ham radio):

1) the international governing organisation is IARU; not FCC

2) FCC is an obsession of the American radio amateurs. The reason for this is that historically most American hams held radio-operator positions in some military service. Most importantly they bring with them paranoia and indoctrination prevalent in the American military.

3) It is a violation of the amateur radio rules to transmit radio signals that require some secret to interpret.

4) Bitcoin uses cryptography for signatures, not for encryption. All information required to understand the transmissions is public.

5) Amateur radio actively encourages experimentation with the following disclaimers:

5a) don't interfere with other radio users
5b) identify your transmission in a way that can be discerned by ear by an ordinarily skilled radio operator using oridinary equipment
5c) publish all the technical information required to demodulate your experimental transmissions
5d) maintain (for about a year) the original text,voice,video,whatever used in your experimental transmissions and be ready to submit them to the licensing authorities
5e) there are additional restrictions on use of high power or wideband transmitters.

The rule 5b) means that every about an hour you have to transmit your callsign using Morse code or one of the classical audio modulations. In case of digital radio the Morse code doesn't have to be transmitted using unmodulated carrier (CW). It is sufficient to alter the parameters of your digital modulation in such a way that when listened on the audio the operator can by ear discern those changes and understand them as Morse code.

6) Amateur radio clearly prohibits for profit broadcasting and advertising. This rule is frequently misunderstood to prohibit any commerce or any monetary exchange. It isn't against the rules to facilitate person to person exchanges of value.

7) Politeness and common courtesy gets you far more in amateur radio than the strict obeyance of the rules and regulations.

You just need to quantize it, not necessarily binary.  For example you could take each byte of binary data, and map it onto an analog signal.  The low end of the signal would be 0 and the high end would be 255.  Of course, you will need redundant transmission and error correction because your analog signal will get distorted by noise.  The more bits you map to each analog value, the more problems you will have with errors.

exactly what i was talking about. i just could not put it into words. would such signal be detectable because of the "hops", like there is only 34 and 35 but not 34,5. would it not leave a empty "space" between 34 and 35?

Ill be watching this, good work.

Most excellent, Matthew. 

Will it come with horse wallpaper?

You would have ranges where each value would be represented.  Say 34-35 represents 01101100 (arbitrary, don't try to figure it out).  You would have a tradeoff between accuracy and obfuscation.  If you broadcast 34.5 you'll have the best chance of falling in the proper range after your signal is corrupted by noise.  If your signal is strong enough and there is minimal noise, you can choose any random number in the range each time.  You could probably make it look a lot like analog noise if you tried hard enough, but you would have a tough time broadcasting over any distance.  Plus, the fact that your broadcasting noise would raise questions and it wouldn't be too hard to track down the transmitter to get those questions answered.

Don't put it past me to include easter eggs like that.

watching. will be great to see how this + bitcoincard develops..

And that’s where I get the affirmation that transmitting encrypted through ham radio data is a bust. Glad we talked this out guise.

Ellet supports encrypted ham radio transactions with the iPhone CONFIRMED!

seems legit

I'm not concerned with the IARU, it's the FCC that controls my license.


Nope, it's because it's the law in the US.


Digital radios can transmit the callsigns in their normal mode, so long as they are in the clear. In the case of modified wifi gear, this usually means in the SSID.
Again, nope.  Not in the US anyway.  The classic example is that you can't order a pizza over ham radio bands but you can over CB. Although bitcoin's protocol doesn't actually facilitate a business transaction, it's the result of one, so I don't know how it would work out.

So what is this secret weapon I heard about before cut off from the chat?

I'm guessing it's a wrist watch? hehe

Come on, spill all the info, you know you want to.
Just how far along is it, anyway? It's been more than a week since it was supposed to be announced in a week. I see that the OP has been edited.

Will it support ipv6? Launching a mobile device right now that doesn't support ipv6 would pretty much make it obsolete before even being manufactured. Although it would be a great upsell for later versions. Planned obsolescence and all that.

A secret episode of bittalk.tv only available to ellet owners lol

I would like to point out that it's been more than a week.

Do your calendar and clock require a repeater and other clock in a 150 meter radius in order to function?

I guess it needs to be recharged at least once a day...

The iphone gets ham radio? Encrypted no less? Is there some Trucker CB radio app I've never heard about?

Please explain, on the surface that sounds ridiculous.

So is this real or not?

In 4-6 weeks, same as the magazine. ;D

Seriously, I have a theory: I'll bet MNW was pissed at the slow development cycle (perhaps even so with the magazine), and decided to publicly announce it in order to kick everyone into high gear. Protip: Doing that makes mistakes more likely, and won't help quality control and "making a perfect product". As you should have learned already.

I think the recent bitcoincard meeting in Vienna was the main reason to rush his announcement. And look at all his negative/FUD comments about the bitcoincard - if he just wanted to push his paypal device, there would be no need to behave that way.

I think that latter is a good theory.  Lets hope the competition spurs each group to improve their devices rather than causing them to resort to unprofessional attacks. 

If MNW were smart, he would change his device that in addition to existing features it would also be gateway for the bitcoincard. Both would benefit from such a move.

So can someone list the pros and cons of this device vs bitcoin card? Is there enough information to even compile such a list?

I have seen the bitcoincard, but until both devices are actually in the hands of users I'd be very careful with such comparisons.
As for the interoperability between different devices: I think it is important to keep all devices somehow compatible with Bitcoin itself. As long as each device supports sending and receiving funds to/from an arbitrary Bitcoin address on a standard notebook computer or a smartphone, everything will be fine.

I am also of the opinion that in the end it is about bringing Bitcoin to the users, not some device. It is pretty much the same as with different software clients: I couldn't care less if you're using bitcoin-Qt, Armory, BitcoinSpinner or if you happen to like crafting your own transactions with a pocket calculator ;)

Everything which makes it easier for people to actually use Bitcoin (while staying reasonably secure) is certainly an improvement and I'll happily support every device that helps to achieve this goal!

Not intended to be a factual statement. It is a joke.

no, there is simply not enough to do any kind of speculation. the top priority is to find a way to get bitcoins into the hands of many via an easy mechanism. evenly important is a POS device. but we all know that.

Yeah, I just rather this be released by some faceless company that eh.. someone with a reputation.. if you call it that.

What about wild speculation?

+1

Bump. I hope this project is real. Sounds ridiculously cool...but oddly prematurely announced to no apparent advantage to anyone but the competition... [[[[head alloc] init] scratch] harder]

Zip! (Over my head). Got it. :-)

I don't know if this has already been mentioned but it may be good idea to add a Bitcoincard (http://bitcoincard.org/product/) radio transceiver.  As it may benefit both devices if they could ad-hoc in the same network.

Maybe if the Ellet has 3G and WiFi then Ellet's could act as a mobile gateway nodes for Bitcoincard's?

But then MNW would have to play nice with the bitcoincard guys...

You sure about that? As far as I'm aware, all the stuff they've demonstrated so far is entirely technically feasable if a bit tricky. It's actually the claims which they haven't given any demonstration of so far - the solar recharging, the mesh networking, the usability of the cards in areas with no infrastructure - that are implausible. Each of them is a major advance on the state of the art on its own, and combining them is harder yet.

(Not Matthew N. Wright, but this sort of thing stands out like a sore thumb.)

Mesh networking isn't implausible at all, hams do it constantly.  That is exactly what a packet TNC does.  The real question is can they do it in such a small device and with such small power requirements, but 100 meters is nothing for a modern digital mode even at low power levels, so I don't consider that unrealistic either.  In fact, I'm hoping that they are under stating the effective range, because 100 meters isn't practical except in some pretty dense urban areas.  I'd say the bear minimum effective ranges start at 300meters.  And nor is communications sans (commerical) infrastructure implausible, for that is the very nature of mesh networking anyway.

Yay! It's Next Week! Oh wait, it's now this week. So last week was this week then, but now this week will be last week next week. So which next week will be coming?

Free fish tomorrow!

No way I'm letting bears smart enough to use bitcoin within 300 meters of me out in the wild.

Eww, is that Objective-C I just read? D:

I sure hope this won't come that slow like the mag did.

I'd have typed it in java, but I don't have that kind of time :)

Seriously though. Why publish so early? To what end? I'm confused.

Too bad this might not be real, i kind of want one

Well it's Saturday here in Korea and my American engineers were having trouble recording a video of the second generation prototype due to their laptop not showing any transactions on the blockchain (even from my client to theirs). Sorry for being so late in the week, but it's still "this week" which is still "next week" a week ago.

Hope to get it all finished today!

Cheers

UPDATE: The first video release will show the second generation prototype only. We are already working on a third generation but it's not yet ready to the point of being able to put it on video.

Interesting fact: I looked up our feature set of brainstorming and it turns out the next private release of IOS6 beta is planning on using one of the same features I came up with a few weeks ago. That should tell you how much we are ahead of the curve to build some faith ;)

The bad news: I can't show you the 3rd generation prototype.

The good news: The 3rd generation prototype is half the size of the 2nd.

I'll stop teasing and report when my engineer calls me today. Cheers

(Serious note to newbies: You might have noticed some people in this thread are claiming this is vaporware. Please refer to the Bitcoin Magazine threads where the exact same people had said that that was also vaporware (it was published, printed, shipped and delivered starting last month). Then when it was announced that it would be distributed by Barnes & Noble, the same exact people claimed it was a lie (it has been officially approved and will be picked up by Barnes & Noble). So please understand that as the creative lead on this project, I won't be wasting my time answering the baseless accusations, only the actual questions, and only when it's something that won't be in an official press release mere days later. Cheers!)

Ooh ooh...Cloud Condensor!

I want to buy one, and this sounds like it will be cool, but how exactly are we going to know that the video is legit. What is preventing you from just saying the video was done at a certain time, doing transactions at that time, then making a video of fake devices and posting that video? It's not that I think you would do that, or something, but I rather know that this is legitimate when I send you 30$ for what could be a paperweight.

Funny you say that. I was going to have our engineer set up a live web feed where people could send coins to his prototype and then he would send them back, live. Since I was quite skeptical (still am about 40% skeptical as I've narrowed down which parts are bullshit and which parts are just pure awesome) of the bitcoincard at first, the very first thing that came to mind was "This video on vimeo showing a transaction is cropped, chopped and heavily edited. I bet it doesn't even send bitcoins" and that led me to think "Anyone could have a laptop right beside them sending bitcoins etc".

If anyone has any brilliant ideas on how to do this in a way that could be proven 100% without a shadow of a doubt, please let me know.

Live feed would be ideal. He can generate an address, show it to the camera, and then forum users can send bitcoins to it, with him showing the screen as they roll in. If everyone sends a satoshi, they won't lose much, and then he can send the balance back to an address that another user posts.

seriously it dosn't require Satoshi him self to step in and come up with that solution, yet both the ellet and the bitocincard can't supply us with a live session :P

Makes you wonder if either devices really exist at all.. and all of this "PR" stuff is just to get investors to create a device in the first place....Doesn’t it?

Always seems like anything with money involved is just smoke and mirrors.

the only 100% way to be sure the device is actually sending/receiving coins would be to send me one!
Seriously though, I don't think there is any way to do this so people wont still be complaining that it is fake.\
Unless of course you want to send me one

Theres nothing worse than impatient trolls.

Nah, I think people are just excited and dont want to get their hopes up if it ends up to be a fake. At least I am.

Only one person in this thread has delivered a Bitcoin Magazine so I cut them some slack if they need more time. Probably should have said "this month" rather than "this week" but thats life.

It's not what he said, it's how he said it. Stealing the thunder from a competitor whether it be another magazine or a device or whatever just shows that it seems to be all about Matthew. I hope he doesn't forget that this is a community and that no man is an island. It's fine to be competitive, but let's not forget that we stand on the shoulders of giants. So go ahead and delete my post for being off topic, or just grow up. Having said that, I wish him well.

Next time I'll use a smaller font, scouts honor.

Where's the crazy guy on the milk crate yelling about how the sky is falling? I need his opinion on this.

what kind of size do you think the final model will be? Is it waterproof?

+1

Video is still a bit late (hopefully it'll be done by today) but I've convinced the engineer who was recording one of the source videos to start working towards a live broadcast test just for the bitcoin community as soon as he's done with this video.

Accept my apologies on the delay of the quite awesome video that we're working on. As a token of my thanks for waiting, here's an advertisement I drafted up for the Ellet. Let me know what you think!


http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/v6bxp/leaked_ellet_advertisement_draft_for_bitcoin/

Since you said the latest (3rd?) generation would be half as big as the current (2nd?) version, I'm assuming the ad draft is for the 3rd gen product and the video will be of something that is a bit larger? I can't imagine anything much smaller in a wristwatch form factor anyway.

You are correct. The advert is 3rd prototype, video is of 2nd prototype which I absofuckinglutely hate in contrast to 3rd, but since 3rd isn't completed yet I have no choice. You should have seen the first prototype! LOL Can anyone say brick?

Note: the video you'll be shown will only demonstrate bitcoin transactions. There are a couple months of developments, contracts, APIs, sandbox testing, etc to go through for additional international payment methods. The newest addition I can't wait to show you guys (can't mention it yet because we're in the process of patenting it) but it'll make this baby sell like hotcakes across Asia*.


(*No, it's not an interchangeable "Hello Kitty" face.)

I hate these reddit page links. I dont even know what to click on. If someone didn't repost the link to the borders bitcoin magazine article I would of never found it. I only thing I saw some who posted its not leaked if you(MNW) released it. I agree.

FTFY.

<obvious> Theres one way to prove it exists and thats to ship it out  :D</obvious>

Stop wiping your nose... euuuuwwwww

Anyways..

Is it next week yet.. I wanna see this thing...

Well he himself has "leaked" this link http://postimage.org/image/xhd9oc62p/full/ (http://postimage.org/image/xhd9oc62p/full/)

So apparently their photoshop department needs more than one week to fake an actual picture of this.
Either that or they are still waiting for Kodak to process their negatives and then UPS shipping it to the internet, because technology like digital cameras to take an actual image of the damn thing will not be invented for the next 20 year (to paraphrase mnw himself)....

lol.. this thread is a fucking tragedy.

uh ohhhhh...


That watch looks like an Ipod nano, the ones they have wristbands for..

Thats fugly, just like the ipod nano watches no one wants.....  I pray that isnt it..   :-\

Im really really disappointed if this is it..

I really hate to be negative on this, I had high hopes, but this is ugly as hell..  

If it isnt a high tech usb stick, or a creditcard design, I cant see everyone flocking to a watch, I dont wear watches, as many others dont.
Specially when my cell phone IS my watch..

I dont wanna be a fashionable bitcoiner, I want to be a functional bitcoiner..

Watches are for fashion.. plain and simple..

http://cdn.electricpig.com.s3-external-3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/ipod-nano-watch-5-580x362.jpg

It's probably not an ipod unless Matthew also got an exclusive Bitcoin deal with Apple on his birthday too.

That link isnt showing anything for me. can someone re upload it please?

OK, this ad claims to take MintChip for payment. Really?

Vaporware that can make payments in vaporcurrency lol

I want one!

So Fry wants two ellets? :P

I won't be interested until it's part of my Google Glasses.

Is the third generation Ellet going to incorporate ReRAM (http://phys.org/news/2012-05-silicon-memory-chip.html)?

Could be. That's a manufacturing issue that I'd leave to our manufacturers.

UPDATE: I have a video now, but it's not to my liking. I'm going to have the engineer take another. (Basically the video doesn't work hard enough to prove that the device is sending/receiving bitcoins) I'd rather be trolled for being a bit late (I'm used to that with so many projects running simultaneously) than more idiots spreading FUD about it being fake. Updated title to reflect the late status.

You think watches are only for fashion?  I believe these 10 million dollars disagree with you...

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-e-paper-watch-for-iphone-and-android

I for one will likely still prefer blockchain.info's app running on my phone.  The ellet still sounds interesting though.  Especially if it comes out anything like the pebble.

Besides the fact that you perfectly proved my point...

Do you think its because these people need the time ? or its a FASHION statement, and e-ink is the fashion statement in this case..

Please think before you post..

I do understand there is a lot of watch wearer's..

But think of all the failures in watches..

For example.. the dick tracy, walkie talkie watch... The calculator watch..   and so on...

The problem is, they are too small or too large to remain functional yet not obnoxious..

I don't wear a watch, but I did buy a Pebble. Not for the fashion because they're not all that eye catching. I bought it because I'm a complete nerd.

As for Bitcoins, I don't think I want them in a watch. That's just my opinion, though.

I need someone to teach me how to click on Reddit links... ::)
Bounty 0.01 BTC

Another bounty if someone can notify me when the Ellet, Bitcoincard, and Raspberry Pi are available for shipping...

The Raspberry Pi has been shipping for a while now. I got mine about a month ago...

Yeah, but it's like BFL Singles - there's a backlog of .25 million orders and if I ordered one now, I'd get it in a year

Packet TNCs are set up at fixed locations and use manually-configured routing though, right? That's not mesh networking in the sense we're talking about here. The hard part of this kind of mesh networking (I believe the technical term is "mobile ad-hoc networking") is dynamically-updated routing between a bunch of small moving devices, all of which has too little memory and compute power and bandwidth to store a full global routing table. Normal mesh networking is similar but has stationary nodes that are typically more powerful.

Subscribing to see what all the craze is about :D

AX25 networking protocol would largely be manually configured, but that's no longer a requirement.  They were never really intended to be fixed.  Although more modern modes don't call themselves packet radio and don't use hardware TNC and don't use AX25 protocol, they have their basis in packet.   


A dynamicly updated routing table, or a routing table at all, is not a likely condition of this kind of network.  Sensor style networks use passive monitoring to detect reachable peers on the fly, and it's a completely different model than a network that is trying to emulate the mass data transfer capabilities of a wired network.  A bitcoin transaction doesn't need to be routed, it simply needs to be broadcast.

I know a man buying time when I see one. What's on your heart, Matthew?

i know! Matthew misses Atlas and the attention he got from him. Therefor he is now trying to get more attention by making up some nonexistent bitcoin device, to impress the community.

Not as a watch. Do you think women will like your "male" looking watch?

Well, you can use flooding but that doesn't scale either. Imagine if, every time someone in New York City made a transaction or sent a message, every single tiny, battery-powered, low-bandwidth node in the city had to wake up and forward it on. You'd run out of bandwidth and kill your battery life with even small amounts of traffic.

Except thats not what happens either. Please do a bit of research; this topic has been covered quite well already on this forum.  Keywords "Dash7" "Jabber" and "XMPP" should help.

https://i.imgur.com/H9tFP.jpg I re uploaded it here since that other site sucked. I have two questions though. Is this open source, will anyone be able to develop applications for this? Secondly, is it real?

Im sooo sad about this...

This is sorely missing the boat..

No one is throwing out their wallets, or getting rid of their purses..

Its ANOTHER device people dont need, a luxury, specially when everyone NEEDS a cell phone and can have a wallet on it..

And most men will still carry a wallet..   Im sad to say, a card I can fit into my wallet will win everytime.. 

Matthew..  What are you thinking! :(

Im sooooooo heartbroken this is the design your going for..    :'(

Dash7 apparently solves the problem by not routing data any further than 2 hops. So if you're more than 2 hops in the mesh away from the node you're trying to communicate with, you can't send or receive messages to it. Jabber/XMPP is a client-server protocol that assumes all servers are directly reachable by all other servers.

Two hops is the default, but there is no real limit.  The default hop can be overriden by software.  Also, these devices are location aware by nature, so vector routing is possible.  Jabber would have to be altered to fit the network model, as I mentioned in the other threads.

I wonder if it has a silent (airplane mode) that vibrates when funds are received.

'airplane mode' isn't about silence, it's about turning off all comms, so it wouldn't know funds are received.

No way a device with no battery could power a vibrating motor, and no way such a motor could fit into such a thin device and still work effectively. I'm guessing this thing runs on a new design of flat supercapacitor, instead of traditional battery technology.

That'd be a very interesting (novel?) choice... I'm don't think they've advanced enough for this type of application. They're expensive, don't discharge at a consistent voltage, and are allegedly prone to sparking easily (the device would possibly need to be air-tight, or risk injuring people, perhaps exploderating gas stations). They charge rapidly and you'd never need to replace it (rather, the supercapacitor will not degrade like a normal battery -- you can recharge it over and over without losing capacity), but a cutting-edge supercapacitor that size would last maybe a minute or two with wireless communication enabled, and because voltage output under load decreases rapidly with discharge (unlike with conventional batteries), much of the battery's capacity would be unusable due to the device requiring a relatively high amount of electricity output. (I don't keep up with supercapacitor news, though -- would be interested in some education)

(sub) ETA: Wait -- where is it said that the device has no battery? (ETA2: For some cool, obscure energy storage, how 'bout LiFePO4? Can be recharged many, many times without degradation [not in the same ballpark as supercapacitors, but relative to Li-Ion, dramatically superior cycle life], has a voltage output plateau unlike supercapacitors, has a ridiculously long calendar life, and is relatively safe.)

Could be a piezo speaker, doesn't need to be a motor. With dolphinclick.wav

I already have a much better render available for you here, although please keep in mind this is not the design we are actually going for in the production prototype, just the 3rd pre-production prototype that you will see in a future video demonstration.

https://i.imgur.com/STqwp.jpg


I've already answered this upstream. Many of the major components are open source, yes.

That's still being decided. There is a balance of security versus functionality of course and if security weighs heavier, we may not allow outside application development. That said, we plan on having addons available to Ellet owners to add new currencies/payment methods and update existing ones securely.

It's not a watch. It has a watch band. It can be worn on your belt, on a watch, in your pocket, on your pocket, in your hand, it doesn't really matter and it's up to you how you carry it. As for women not using it because of the way it looks...why did you think there would only be one model?  :-*

I wish Atlas would go away long enough to be missed. He spams reddit daily with self important opinionated garbage.

They said the same thing about the home phone, the desktop, etc. You don't need everyone in the world to do something, you just need a strong minority.

The featureset planned for Ellet cannot be done by any mobile phone currently on the market or even any phone I am aware of in the near future.

Thank you for your feedback, but there is a solution for your concerns-- don't buy one ;)

The Ellet uses a battery and is not a fictitious "project of the future" that paid representatives cannot get their stories straight about the functionality of. It uses a battery. It needs charging like everything else in reality. It also uses standard protocols and does not try to reinvent the wheel of dozens of years of progress "because bitcoin".


This was the intention, yes.

A little update for everyone: If anyone remembers the magazine's beginning, they know that it was a trying experience for us putting the perfect team together (I actually fired quite a few people in the beginning just to bring the professional team I demanded). Well, this project is not shy of my perfectionism either and I've had to let an assistant engineer go. That said, he was replaced with two professional electronic engineers and they are working under command of my project manager, manufacturing agent and myself directly.

I had originally intended to show the 2nd prototype functioning, but I am now of the belief that there is absolutely no point to showing a larger device prototype sending bitcoins (what's special about that? everyone already has a mobile phone that can do that) and decided to hold off on the video presentation until this 3rd prototype is complete. I'm convinced that anyone watching that video will soil themselves.

We've moved our company to the UK where we are now working on the 3rd and final pre-manufacturing prototype. This prototype will be our proving ground for all the features that we haven't yet announced, and a way to polish up the features that we already have announced. Security is obviously of the utmost priority as this device will be consolidating numerous payment accounts into a single usable interface, and I encourage everyone to speak up as to their concerns with certain aspects of announced functionality so that we can properly respond.

A world renowned (I consider to be on of the top 5 in the world) device designer is working on the production prototype model and casing, and I am busy with our own in-house team working daily to bring more useful functions to the device without bloating it. Since our investors are particular about the style in which we announce things, this will be the last unofficial announcement (I am happy to discuss whenever possible) on the forums and we will be announcing further developments through the Bitcoin Magazine and digital press releases.

Thank you everyone for your initial interest and it is my pleasure to continue to bring functioning and high quality products to the Bitcoin community.

Cheers!

This statement should be in the press release. I want to hear CNN anchors say "Creators of the device insist that anyone who sees the gadget in action will, quote, "totally fucking shit themselves" unquote. We will have more on this story as it develops."

Sorry! I thought I was in the bitcoincard thread when I said that.

You successfully confused me to be in the bitcoincard thread too, when I read your post :-)

Ente

Just because you have a strong competitor doesn't mean you have to spit on them everytime you can.

Because their is awesome, is bitcoin only, is cheaper, is thinner,.... Ok I stop, don't want to upset you. Competition is good, and I guess the market will sort it out.

Thanks for answering my question. Now I don't have to buy a watch until this comes out, assuming it can tell time.

Shit! I knew we forgot something...  :-\

Where are the pics ?

I actually joked about that to my friends that would should have a block counter instead of a clockface. I might actually go ahead and include that if you choose it in the bitcoin payment module.

+1!
That would be cool :)
If it can also notify me after N blocks, it would actually be useful when I send bitcoins to an exchange :)

Do you have any pics available?
I'm really excited about this  ;D

I think showing the video of the second would be good, because you will both prove that you are actually working on something (even if the video is total crap), AND be able to demonstrate just how much you have improved it with the 3rd generation.
That said, I'm extremely concerned that with the newest version being half the size and designed by twice as good of an engineering team, that the final device will be twice as expensive to manufacture and twice as expensive to manufacture. I wam primarily interested in it due to the low $30 price. As it gets closer to $100, my interest in it would drop exponentially.

Do you need anyone to help design the UI or icons  ;)



_{it would be cool to have a clockface that showed blocks being slowly generated and they fly away with their block number on them, passing by the clock which updates the time.}

+0.000000001

That's a zero too much. You just gave him plus one nanobit, instead of plus one satoshi.

Is it next week again yet?

^^^^

This... :D

Now it's 4 months. No, seriously.

Can we at least get something from Mr. Blurrycam?

Mr. Blurrycam is below my standards. I'd rather have people barking in the thread than release garbage. It's coming. Sorry for the wait. I just took on 4 more projects as well including SafeBit. Little busy 'round here lately.

Listen assholes, he's being far too productive to be productive right now. Let the man get to work on not delivering everything he's working on, sheesh.

Ah hahaha.

Surprised this isn't available still after N months.

Not.

Name it the Waitlet

I guess it just begs the question, which I am sure has already been asked- why? I mean you're free to develop it, and I'm sure people would really love it, but I'm curious as to how useful it would really be. Since it will still be *years*  until BTC is spendable at any place you normally visit in real life, I think it's a bit premature to be designing something that will be outdated by the time it's useful. Until then, why not just get a smart phone? (Or you already have one) and use that?

Security. Dedicated devices are a much safer way to access your "savings accounts", as it's extremely unlikely that a dedicated device gets compromised by malware.
The same thing cannot be said about a generic computer, either desktop, laptop or smartphone.

Smartphone you say? Grandmas can't use smartphones. Forcing a device into the public space before there is clear demand certainly is a high risk venture but a do-it-all bitcoin device could potentially (if done right), lower the barrier to entry massively. This would give the network effect something to expand into easily and quickly. But still with great risk, comes the possibility of great reward. When Apple first coined the the name for it's "revolutionary" device the "i"-Phone I chuckled at the silly sounding name. iPhones were nothing special back then, there were heaps of mobiles with cameras and such. The iPhone however made a very polished, easy to use device that delivered a simple, straightforward and enthralling experience no other phone out there could.

Maybe the Ellet could also deliver a simple and straightforward experience for Bitcoin finances (or maybe the Bitcoin card can). It's a tough ask but even if it just makes things a little bit easier it's worth doing.

Jesus christ, someone actually gets it!  8)

Then again, the iPhone was easy/simple to use, but wasn't targeted towards grandmas.  Some grandmas use them anyway though.  :p

Some people just want a device that works.  I like to tinker with my computers, but my phone?  No, I don't want to deal with having to root it to get the features I want.  I want something that is basically perfect from the get go, so I bought an iPhone.  It does the job perfectly for me.  It's easy to use, it does what I want, and more importantly, it always works.  And I don't ever have to tinker with it.

So far, there are no Bitcoin wallets available from the app store (that don't eventually get removed by Apple), which means if you want to use Bitcoin, you have to jailbreak or use the buggy Android platform.  I see a standalone device being much more reliable than any application running on Android, and not many people want to jailbreak their iphones either.

I can see the merit of having a bitcoin wallet on a smartphone, but there's also many benefits to releasing a standalone device.  There's certainly a market for both.

zing

ZINGER ALERT

Via reddit:


My response (copying here for clarity):

I've fired one engineer for reasons of a professional nature and actually added 2 more to handle different aspects of the technology involved, we had some issues with our manufacturing agent as well due to disagreements on a very expensive design concept for the final prototype, and my personal director of operations has had a stomach flu for about a week. No one is more annoyed of a lack of announcements than I, but there is nothing to announce just yet. I believe next week will be a bit different and for those subscribed to the Bitcoin Magazine (http://subscribe.bitcoinmagazine.net) they'll get a sneak peak before anyone else. Thanks for your patience and I can't wait to shake things up.

Thank you for not making me jump through 37 reddit links to read this.

Theres a small speeling mistake on the Rendered link

"Chock" it in your pocket..

Think you meant chuck.. ??

So most grandmas can't use cell phones now, but some can and that number is only growing. And lots of grandmas do use tablets. The number of nontechnical users is shrinking in every demographic, and targeting shrinking demographics seems like a strange idea to me.  While there are grandmas without phones and email addresses, I also don't see them ever using bitcoin.  Of course, the ellet isn't directed only at them, but I still agree that it seems like this is a device that will be outdated by the time it is useful.

Smart phones are going to be ubiquitous very soon.  At Google I/O 2011, they said they are expecting their current smart phones to be reselling for $20 or $30 in 2 years.  While a watch that serves as my wallet and only my wallet for security reasons is a cool idea, I still see a smartphone app as a much easier entrance to bitcoin for the vast majority of users.

And the iPhone was nothing special? Really? You immediately contradict yourself by calling it "a very polished, easy to use device that delivered a simple, straightforward and enthralling experience no other phone out there could."  How is that not special? I'm confused.

Keep reading. Here I'll translate for you:
"The iPhone was nothing special in terms of hardware. What made the difference was how easy it was to use."

It's supposed to rhyme and be catchy

Ohhh.. I missed that...  I still do actually...

My bad

Does that $20-$30 include a contract?  Because if so, I know plenty of people who are unwilling to tag an extra $15-$30 on to their cell plan for data.

If Google is selling these for $20-$30 without a contract, then color me surprised!

This is not meant as a diss post, Matthew, but...

Back Story: George Jones (the country singer) will forever be known as "No Show" Jones because... [urlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Jones]His wild lifestyle led to Jones missing many performances, earning him the nickname "No Show Jones."[/url]

That said, could "Always Late Wright" be your shtick?

~Bruno/Cackling Bear~

That signature means: half serious, half joking ;)

Neither would I, and I already own an android smartphone.  I use a prepaid service for $25 per month, paid mostly in bitcoins.

They were talking about reselling for $20-30.  This means used.  I don't think that used phones usually come with a contract, do they?

I wouldn't know.  Do they?

A quick google search showed lots of sites selling used phones without contracts.  Most looked like $50-100, so a year from now will be cheaper and likely on track with google's estimates.

I'm still interested in the ellet, but I definitely see cheap smartphones with apps as major competition.

Maybe.  Still think that the contract thing is a red herring.  I don't have a contract, but still pay a monthly fee for data access.  I suppose that I could just stop using the thing as a phone altogether and simply use the wifi radio for access, and I would have a pretty good mini-tablet  computer to do such things with, but that doesn't mean that I predict that we will start seening used android phones being used as bitcoin clients in Africa anytime soon.

Is there a video yet?

It hasn't been 2 weeks yet.

UPDATE: Just wanted to let everyone know that I've been spending the past month preparing materials, giving demonstrations and discussing with investors. There are several investors in Silicon Valley and the UK that are interested in the Ellet and we may in fact be able to cut our production time to half of what I had originally quoted. To be safe though, I won't make any firm announcements just yet. I have created another thread to offer the community to be a part of the investment process and thus a part of the profits, rather than relying entirely on angel investors that seem to run the world around us.

Will update with thread link when posted.

Cheers.

Excellent!

Should be interesting

Don't worry, I wouldn't leave our first prototype engineer in the dark ;)

I'm posting the other thread in a minute. Need to clear some details with investors.

This sounds pretty cool, I would love you buy one!

Oh my, investing in the Ellet, that sounds like a great idea! ;D

How long could a Matthew minute be for the rest of the world?
Let's try:
Bitcoin Magazine: "weeks" -> "months"
Ellet: "next week" -> "not anytime soon"
So are are there any mathematicians here that can compute this?

Haven't you figured it out yet? He's colluding with BFL to offer the longest delays ever!

I think it's close to Valve time

Sorry, right when I was about to post the thread that took 20 or so minutes to write, I was asked to handle it privately instead.

Relative: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYiahoYfPGk

So we aren't getting any news?

UPDATE: Through continuous difficulties with our current design and manufacturing manager in Shenzen, we've decided to part ways and I am inviting another well known manufacturing specialist from Smith company in Shenzen. I'll update here when it seems prudent to. It's still looking like about a 4-6 month wait on this before you'll be able to order, but I'll try to push the investors a bit more so we can speed that up.

Cheers

Wow, shows you how overworked I am these days. That's the date of availability for the Bitcoin Magazine in Barnes and Noble  ::)

Fixed.

nice video, is it flexible?

EDIT: what about a camera, or some way to read qr codes (this is probably really important, or at least some way to use firstbits)

Ignoring the contradiction in your post ('now' = present tense, 'said' = past tense), yes, I am pro-kickstarter and crowdfunding for non-software initiatives. I always have been.

The thread you referred to was someone trying to crowdfund a free piece of software, which I am still against. Crowdsourcing is the solution for projects that have no material costs (like software).

I've updated my post there to be more specific. Thanks for pointing that out!

I'm really starving for some cornedbeefhash now..... Darn it forums!! tease me with hardware and food....

This looks promising. Watching closely.
I might want to invest in this, but 250k might be slightly above my "play money" budget  :-\
No listing on glbse  :P

$250k is only the lower limit after the first round of investments. For the first round, it's much lower.
If you're serious about wanting to invest some money, you might want to contact Matthew directly though (through a PM for example).

Am I the only one that thinks qr codes and flexibility are cool ?

QR codes might be cool initially, but they quickly become a hassle if you need them for day-to-day transactions (ever watched two guys with shaky hands try to scan QR-codes off their smartphone displays in bright sunlight?) I always considered them as somewhat of a hack for conveying Bitcoin addresses. NFC or similar (non-optical) wireless transmissions are clearly the way to go for the future. I'd even go so far as to say that QR-codes are a big hurdle for Bitcoin on the way to mainstream adoption.

UPDATE: I've been notified by our legal that direct investments into the Ellet Systems company in the UK would require signed HNWI statements before even discussing investments so I won't be discussing any investments in this thread in the future. Please contact by email so that we can sign the proper paperwork (either High Net Worth Individual or Sophisticated Investor statement) before discussing.

Hey, Matthew. Some wiseguy has an idea. Perhaps it may be a useful feature of your Ellet. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=94627.0

Peace, bro.

~Bruno~

Any news?

OP said next week  :P

This reminds me of valve. You can have half life 3 when your dead, preorder now!

Maybe if we give him 250 btc he will start working

+1. Too funny!

Free fish tomorrow.

St. Peter: Name?
MNW: Matthew Neil Wright.
St. Peter: You're late! Jehovah quit waiting for you a week ago.
MNW: And your point is? BTW, it's Neal.
St. Peter: My bad! Welcome to hell.
MNW: Wait! I thought this was...
ST. Peter: Ha Ha! I trolled you!
MNW: Well played!

Reminds me of Duke Nukem Forever  ;D

Just two things:

1) Investment rounds in the UK and US are still under way

2) We're still in negotiations with our new manufacturing company in Shenzen.

I'll post more when there is reason to. It's all boring development and business meetings from here on.

..Then apparently I missed something between flashy spectacular announcements on the first page and this latest one.. :-P

Ente

As president of the Matthew N. Wright Fan Club, I formally request to have your post removed due to... I'll get back to you on that.

~Cackling Bear~

Why do you all pay attention to this attention whore again? Easily one of the most fucking irritating people on this forum.

atleast he does stuff.

oh gawd... what can't be un seen

Finally, one of the largest Bitcoin related mysteries is solved:
"Yum. There's jelly on my hand."


Ente

While MNW's flare for the dramatic is palpable...I think deep down everyone is curious if he can really pull this _huge_ endeavor off. We not talking trivial ideas here...it just seems too dufficult a project and rather hard to believe.

Monkeys and typewriters.

Give it some time.

…

This. You may or may not like Matthew, but he can get Stuff Done. Feel free to keep slinging mud and be ignored, while Matthew produces a bloody high quality Bitcoin Magazine in Barnes&Noble, complete with professional team. And in a week or so*, the Ellet.

*or so a bit more.

Exactly as the time reaches higher and higher almost to near infinity the chances of a successful device increases to almost near 100%

Not sure if trolling =_=

Def trolling  :D

If you think I'm trolling I'd like to inform you that you are just uninformed of what we are talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

Any updates?

We're working on a new investor proposal right now for manufacturing. As I mentioned before, I'll post when there is something to post. We're all very excited about it and we hate delays as much as the rest of the world, but we refuse to accept any pre-orders at this time.

...and I could have sworn he was killed nearly instantly by an incredibly well shot arrow...

Nonsense! I'm back this week as a jumper for the Olympics. (Will explain in another thread)

Rock on!

How is this going? Any new deadlines?

He'll probably find some way to fuck over his customers and ship it to himself instead.

That's what I would assume. "What? You didn't read the broken English I used, backwards by the light of the full moon? Your own fault."

It's a shame, it was a very interesting product.

So is the Star Trek transporter and holodeck... was there ever any product? 
I hope that he didn't con a bunch of people into wasting time and money on something that no one will want now... because MNW!   

Where do I preorder it?  ;D

Ok, it is an interesting product in case it exists, and if not it will be in case anyone is interested in making one!

Everyone considering investing in this, should be aware that according to this forum, general consensus and any type of logic/law: Matthew N. Wrong is a scammer.

He is also quite rude and immature at times.

And farts on occasion! Oh my!

STFU Atlas Matthew!

FTFY!

I will always love you Atlas...

ROFL

I would advise anyone thinking of investing or partaking in this product/business to note that Matthew N Wright is a part of it and he is a scammer.

You know the funny thing?  I just found out about this product today after the scam you pulled.  No way in hell I'm buying one.  Even if it is cool as hell (which it seems like it is).

You not only screwed yourself but every business you are involved in and the partners who work with you.

Wouldn't be the first time.

I'll bet (not with you) that that's going to be one goddamn tricky document. Good luck hiding the ridiculous loopholes!

I highly doubt there will be funding for this from investors.

Oh wait...the 80k bitcoins...we can just use that to fund the project....oh nevermind that was just on paper....damn

 :D

What does Matthew have to say to those of us that acquired more debt in order to hedge more?

"I can talk myself out of anything" he said.

I'm afraid he's a bit naive if he thinks there won't be some real world implications.

I am furious.

Sooooooo.... Who wants to start and open source alternative  :P

Meh,

I'm buying a few bitcoincards when it comes out
as far as i know MNW has nothing to do with that

Yeah but, we should pull together to fund a little touchscreen android powered watch that can run a bitcoin wallet

An Android pocket watch and Google monocle. Let's Bitcoin in style.

Alright https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=108262.0

just curious

Matthew has a scammer tag from betting on pirate.


Why does pirate himself not have a scammer tag?

He does.

And he dons it proudly. Not once has complained about it.

Would you complain about getting a bunch of idiots to give you all their money?

ummm... what?

Oh no, I am labeled a scammer on BitcoinTalk.org... my life is broken. Forever! What will I do now? I guess I'll just go cry alone on the tropical island I bought with the coins they gave me  ;D

So is this project dead?  Or did MNW pass it along to a new team?

Rumor has it that a new team has picked it up and is currently taking pre-orders. Also, there's 2-3 other entities currently developing said device, therefore don't expect to see many images posted by the myriad of photographers currently attached to said entities. Enough said?

~Cackling Bear~

With delivery in 4 to 6 weeks??   ???   ;)   (Sorry I could not resist.)

Sources say (who wish to remain non-existent) that Adele will be at the launch and has a theme song. I think I heard this on Faux News. *facepie*

Subbed.

A)I believe I have missed something. I've read through 6 pages of post. I don't see anywhere where it verifies the person sending you the bitcoins actually has them. Can I make a copy of my wallet at one point in time, clone it to a second SDCARD, put it on 2 ellets and send money to 2 people? It doesn't store the blockchain. So if you are in a place with no wireless and no cellular, I can't possibly see how you can't clone your wallet and spend twice. I mean hell, someone can find a way to open one, kill the antennae, and just walk around spending a bucket load of money at say a trade convention. Lets go a step further. Find the spectrum this uses and kill it with a jammer. You could walk around all day just going "oh look, no signal here. Have 30 bucks" and disappear into the shadows.

B) As others said. The name isn't very good, but whatever. It doesn't flow if you ask me.

C) This will be hacked. Saying it can't, just makes you a bigger target. This deals with money, you already have a large mark on your back. See: iphone, onstar, etc

D) I'd say an app I can put on any phone I'm already I'm carrying in my pocket would be a huge plus. I'm not opposed to another device, depending on the size. When you carry a gun in one pocket, earbuds,gum,cellphone in another and a wallet in one back pocket, you really don't wan't to have leave an implant in the other cheek.

E) If you can get it to the right size and display the time, this would make a great watch replacement. Heck, I still might build a strap to keep it on my wrist, no worries about theft under a long shirt then.

EDIT:F) Accept credit cards. I got a square up device a bit ago. This is awesome for me when I'm at shows. Instant payment that everyone already has, especially when they don't carry around a few $100 in cash. As for the fee, I add it to their total.

This project is probably dead.

This project is Matthew-ed.

Wow pretty awesome stuff!!

Twas a fun project to work on indeed.

No idea if this is dead here. Even if, there will eventually be such a device.
Over here we are talking about creating visual representations of adresses:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137406.0

What for? To easily compare an adress on my computer with the one the ellet has received!

Ente

Thank you for being there for the earlier prototypes. It was fun. The project itself has stalled for funding reasons (it costs about $1 million to get even 50,000 of them produced). We thought about a kickstarter or indiegogo campaign, but in shopping around for distributors we found that most of them were scammers trying to steal our ideas. For the moment, we're taking our time and watching the market for interest (as we should have done in the first place). Slush, who was there in the beginning of the Ellet's development for a few months has also started making a physical wallet device. Check his out too!

Open source is not about allowing others to steal ideas, it's to encourage it. Closed source is anathema to Bitcoin. We all benefit by sharing ideas to make Bitcoin adaption grow. It would be nice to see what you had developed.

Hardware is a tough industry as I've come to learn. You don't get anywhere in hardware without burning money. The question then is if you're able to replenish it or not. I can safely say that as an open source project, I have no confidence in the bitcoin community's ability to support its large overhead for manufacturing as there just isn't a large enough market for such a device.

That said, I have come to grow fond of the principles of open source since coming to the Bitcoin community and I hope to appreciate it even moreso as I work on open source projects this year. Here's to broader minds and strokes in 2013.

GUYS! IT'S HERE!

http://www.cowi.dk/menu/NyhederogMedier/Nyheder/Nyhedsarkiv/PublishingImages/Elbil_slide7.jpg

Pay back your debts, then you can re-join the community..

I lol'ed

I think it was suggested before, somewhere.
It seems like hardware is the main moneyburner here.

Why invent it again?
Use some small device with a bit cpu power, a good enough display, battery, usb connection and buttons.
Sounds familiar?
--> MP3 Player <--

Now I didn't research into this much. However, I found http://www.rockbox.org/ which replaces the stock firmware on a lot of mp3 players. We may use it directly, or parts of it, or just use it as a pointer to see which mp3 players are usable.

How about "sandisk clip":
https://randomtidbitsofthought.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/no-10-sansa-clip.jpg

Or "SanDisk Sansa c200":
http://i.t.com.com/i/lumiere/2006/11/29/32078922-320-0-24998-20061129_140016-320x240.jpg

edit:
even much more simple and surely cheaper, not based on rockbox:
http://www.s1mp3.org/en/docs_userguide.php
http://www.s1mp3.org/images/btn.gif
I would prefer one of the first two players..

I would use one of those. And buy a reprogrammed one, or maybe do it myself and send money in the direction of the firmware programmers.

Now these are strictly offline. No Paypal possible on these, as someone shouted on the original vapor-Ellet.. But good enough to sign transactions, for sure!

So, why are people burning truckloads of money on re-inventing the hardware? It's all in the software anyway!

Ente

The future looks great  ::)

Hi Ente,

This is a very good point, and can be part of a very good solution. Going with a rockbox platform, you would get a great development environment (qemu target simulation) and some reference platforms that work well with Rockbox. I can think of some downsides:

1 - Ability to scale, not tied to a manufacturer. It is very important to be free from a certain product lifecycle. If the vendor stops making your reference platform, you get kinda stuck. Designing it yourself gets you 5-10 years of useful life.
2 - Single reference platform. Rockbox looks like it is very platform-independent. It is nice to keep things simple with a single platform, though that isn't a big issue, just pick one and turn away users that have another one (or get them to port it.) Trying to debug dozens of USB HID implementations can be tedious.
3 - Crypto-specific requirements. It is pretty important to have a good hardware random number generator on board, to create a strong private key and to limit some attacks.

Most importantly,

4 - Developing hardware is kick ass, and has a reasonably low barrier to entry. Even if you will never get to the quantities that would make your device cheaper than an MP3 device, it is still a great experience and solves all of the above problems. You also get a nice development environment, more security, and can optimize for Bitcoin-specific use cases. There is a strong open-source mentality around Bitcoin, and using open hardware fits better than an off-the-shelf retrofit.

My 2 mBTC. Having Bitcoin wallet software integrated on top of Rockbox would still be sweet.

I see your point, paybtc!
Of course I would prefer a "dedicated" wallet hardware.
It seems a lot of effort was put into the Ellet (at least the announcements was made to sound like it). Nevertheless, the original post was on 07.June.2012, 02:14:52 and now it seems to be on halt, precisely because of the hardware..
Maybe Bitcoin is still too small for such a hardware project. Other hardwareprojects are crashing and burning in these very days, in a spectacular way.. ;-)

Hardware random number generator - this might be a KO-criterium , thanks for the hint!

I am sure we will eventually hold a neat dedicated piece of bitcoinhardware in our hands!

Ente

or something like this?
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1655017763/cst-01-the-worlds-thinnest-watch (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1655017763/cst-01-the-worlds-thinnest-watch)
edit one more:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-e-paper-watch-for-iphone-and-android?ref=most-funded (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-e-paper-watch-for-iphone-and-android?ref=most-funded)

i second the bitcoinwallet as rockbox-plugin motion.

Designing hardware is definitely difficult and can be expensive, and I believe that this project was a bit too broad in its goals (especially as one of the first devices in an unknown market.)

However, there are actually some hardware wallets for Bitcoin in the works right now!!!

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Hardware_wallet