Bitcoin Forum

When you have a problem with your US Dollar, SOMEONE is responsible.
When you have a problem with your Bitcoin, NO ONE is responsible.

"Ok" you say. "What's your point?".. **WHOA**

To think I would make a thread without a point.. to troll.. to draw attention toward myself... Is that goal merely all I sought in sharing this opinion?

NOPE.

This is a HUGE observation.

BITCOIN is a currency that has NO CENTRAL AUTHORITY. This you might know, as most do, but do you know really what this implies and how this is NOT to your benefit?

Now you can respond and say I'm crazy, or you can actually think it through. Is this really better?

If government and people were ONE... the US dollar would be perfectly fine.. but BITCOIN being the solution? No I can't imagine that. I'm so sorry. You personally might be finding a use for it but that does not justify it on the level I am speaking.

Think about this: If the United States is failing, how is Bitcoin going to succeed? and why does the United States fail? because the people are failing. The very people you trust to manage their own Bitcoin based world. People will always be people! Bitcoin is no exception.

There *ALWAYS* need to be someone or something responsible for everything.. Bitcoin is chaos. The United States is Chaos. Why? Because people are Chaos and do not generally look for collective solutions unless a shallow inward incentive is sold to them. A shallow interpretation of freedom is that very incentive peddled upon the ignorant majority, employed/preached in every system doomed to fail.

I'm sorry Bitcoiners.. this is not going to work out logically for you.

Good job, you've identified a critical failure in Bitcoin that nobody has ever though of before.

Before the entire system collapses there's still time for you to send all your Bitcoins to the address in my signature line so they won't take you down with it.

and likewise, good job to you, for being the first person to identify the power of mocking at the truth through a false founded sarcasm based on ignorant rhetoric.

When you have a problem with your Bitcoin, YOU are responsible.

I have a problem with my dollar. It's not worth as much as it was when I got it. Who is this SOMEONE who is responsible? Do they have a complaint hotline?

The only thing similar about Bitcoin that I've seen, is **special interests** manipulating its' perception. Censorship, for example. Inhibiting the thoughts deriving from those who are not convinced.

When you have a problem with the US Dollar, someone is responsible - but thanks to a corrupt system they'll pay a settlement fee and get back to ripping someone off.

When you have a problem with bitcoin, you probably didn't read something correctly, resulting in your losing your coins through your own incompetence. Much similar to losing your cash somewhere, except in this case a bearded idiot who has his thumb mashed on the 'print' button isn't ruining bitcoin -- just the dollar.

Bitcoin is chaos?

Chaos is blocks processed every 9 - 10 minutes? Chaos is a pre-determined supply? Chaos is $1.27 MILLION in estimated transaction volume on a dollar basis?

What color is the sky in your world, and if you can, tell us what the magical caterpillar said to you about bitcoin?

Are you completely insane?

And please note - if you had some rational, logical and procedural protest about bitcoin (protocol, etc..) I'd take you seriously. But what you wrote had the air of someone finishing a bender with their favorite hallucinogens.

I suggest you read more about what you are trying to comprehend.

I'm supposed to trust someone like you? Case in point..

Maybe you're the one hallucinating because everything you just wrote completely validates my sentiment.

In real life, not your Bitcoin world, there is a judicial system. Where is Bitcoins court? That's for starts..

Nice try..  but to repair your flawed comparison, it'd need to be something more like:

..and to both of those you could add:

And that's charitably assuming you're not conflating macro problems with USD/Bitcoin vs an individual's problems with handling the stuff (but it rather seems you are).

Bitcoin can be reasonably considered a protocol or a 'base' upon which layers of protections can be built and optionally used.  
Just like the physical cash of the USD offers no direct protection and has a complex centralized electronic infrastructure which does in some circumstances offer merchant and/or consumer protections; if the Bitcoin system needs such protections to move into certain niches, then it seems likely the market will produce offerings on top of it to achieve that.

If you're talking about more macroscopic issues.. well the 'responsibility' is different for sure, but in some ways comparable.
Theoretically - you influence those who direct US Dollar policy through your vote...  and theoretically with bitcoin, the network's users/miners influence the various client/library developers (and thus which is the surviving blockchain) by 'voting with their feet' so to speak.

Bwahahaha Thanks for the nice laugh OP.   ::)

Yeah I'm not very good at expressing my points.. Even I cringe at my own weak attempt to express a point. but does that really mean I don't have a point? It's like a retard trying to save your life.. Wtf is he saying?? Or a dog barking trying to tell you something.. Yeah I might just be a dog barking to you but really... that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Hence for that reason, I have decided before making this thread that I would make no effort to debate. Rather just post what I feel and move on. It's not like I'm changing anything or anyone really cares about what I have to say. That's human nature. No one cares. No one is worried. Everything is arbitrary. Why things work and why they don't work doesn't matter.. Each man for himself...

http://www.judge.me/ is for arbitration between two people. The government would do well to learn arbitration rather than "ruling"

Look, I'll be kind because it's morning, I just woke up 30min ago, am still in a good mood after stretching my body so I'll explain it to you.

Why you don't have a point has nothing to do with the way you presented your point but everything to do with the validity of your point. Your point is invalid. Now the reason you don't think so is simple too! You lack the appropriate market regulated by strictly market consumers (i.e. free market) economics literacy. In other words you are illiterate in free market economics. And that's all. You just haven't learned all the economic principles most people around here know to be true not because they think so but because they test these principles over and over and over again in their daily lives and they always turn up to be true.

Now it's pointless for me to go into detail explaining what these principles are if you don't recognize your illiteracy and aren't open to learning them. If that isn't the case however you can head on over to www.mises.org and start learning, they have an amazing collection of reading material available in large part for entierly free.

What material does an elephant need to learn to have the intellect to run away from shore hours BEFORE a Tsunami producing earthquake hits? See, I believe in intuition and other things. Hence I don't need to speak YOUR language to know what is true. Neither did those animals who ran from the coast hours before the earthquake. http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/08/25/strange-behavior-detected-in-animals-before-earthquake/

Everything living has a need, and that is the root. I can know instinctively when there is no root in something. I don't need to know economic jargon or any principles, although it WOULD make me some more literate as you mentioned. It's not necessary, in order for me to know the truth. Now we can end it here or I will gladly continue. I've got nothing to lose. Perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps I have NO point. If so then carry on in another direction. but when it comes to mocking me, belittling my sense of understanding, or censoring my opinions.. that's when it's confirmed within me that this is a failure.

that's a very corny analogy..

instincts vs nature is not equal to instincts vs  concepts that are completely unnatural(i.e., money and economics are very unatural, man made concepts)

See I was right, there would have been no point explaining the principles. Unfortunately you can't even see the disadvantage of how limited in accuracy your intuition is.

Here's a hint. At one point people thought the Sun orbited the Earth just because they saw it rise in the east in the morning and set in the west in the evening and that's just one basic example of untold amount of examples in our history hence why we use the scientific method for higher accuracy when trying to understand how the world really works instead of our intuition.

So you go ahead and keep relying on your gut if you don't care whether or not you make a mistake that most likely could have been avoided if you used the scientific method. I on the other hand like the best possible accuracy.

what I think is corny is posters coming into what I think is a serious opinion thread and tossing your little 2 cents that you know people will agree with, which hinders them from even considering the perspectives I or anyone attempts to articulate on the internet. this internet belittling is such a rampant phenomenon lately. but I must remain self controlled or they call you a troll.

Great - we arrived at the corny analogy stage. Let me chime in:

Bitcoin is governed by the same forces that govern the workings of the sun
from which *mind you* the predecessors of your goverment took their power from!

Riddle me this:
All the presidents, kings and priests charged with responsibility,
can they actually do what you want them to?

I do apologize for that..


..however I wasn't trying to belittle your sense of anything, or censor your opinion.

I'm sorry, I'm not knocking Bitcoin. I just don't think it's any better in theory than anything already tried before. In fact it's worse by many standards.
Remember, this is what I feel. You may not feel the same way.

I use the United States as the best example of why I believe Bitcoin is doomed to fail, even if it was truly democratic, or even worse, completely stripped of democracy which some feel is best. and why I say this is bad is because there is no more accountability of words and actions. Everything is anonymous, void of personality.. and mind me for saying this I really think it's utterly stupid, considering this fosters the rising up of a cult-like following, inevitably, where fear of the strong takes place of justice for those who are at less of an advantage in this setup.

And that's exactly all this thread became when you used that very corny analogy to state that you had no desire to view this from any other angle than the one your 'instincts' tell you is right.

So, the only one hindering anything is yourself. I see why you have such a hard time with the self responsibility aspect of a free market...

We don't feel. We know as best/accurate as can be known.

This isn't entirely true.

The problems you would be able to hold someone responsible for do not exist in Bitcoin. The problems you wouldn't be able to hold anyone other than yourself responsible for are almost the same. So there isn't much difference, other than Bitcoin being superior.

Of course there's a chance I don't get what you mean. What problems are we talking about?


Bitcoin is in real life. What makes you think you can't sue me for e.g. stealing bitcoins? That's absurd, of course you can sue and of course you can win. I'm not an advocate of courts, but imagining that they are in a different planet is just naive.

Is this your informal petition to censor my opinion?

Who else will follow suit? I know that's how things work on the internet... Pretty scary that this is what you paint as liberation. but it's nothing new, America is the same false promise which ended up being just another inhabitance of the most corrupt individuals in our society.

How is Bitcoin safer than the governments who are above the little guy, abusing them? This is what I cannot see. Sorry if this offends anyone. I cannot see the true value in this operation at all.

Is it not even more complicated? The one you deem dollar responsible: Can he push the responsibility to the next person if he fucks up?
Can he fuck up with intention and then push responsibility?
Can the one who gets responsibility continue that schema. Or assume that it is ought to be this way?

It seems that the general discussion here is centralisation versus decentralisation which is as good for a debate as christians versus atheists.
Or am I off point?

No, the united states failing is by no means shure, nor that it would be a succees for bitcoin.
Personally I suggest you can already see how bitcoin is a success. I do not see it requiring any special size for it to be a success.

Bitcoin is not just chaos. It is self organizing chaos. Best solution to a problem will prevail. It is the best solution for the moment or it will be replaced as part of the problem. I see that this can be somewhat a article of faith. But so is any centralized goverment.
The funny part is that it is not mutually exclusive. At some point in the future i will have to seriously ask myself:
Is bitcoin running ontop of a centralized world or is a centralized world running ontop of bitcoin.

no one is censoring you...... Not liking what someone has to say does not equal censorship.

And no one has any personal opinions of you because they don't know you. Any attacks against your writing are because of what you're writing.  I think it's great you have such a strong opinion. But in order to have an effecive debate or discussion. Especially one where you wish to convince others of the validitity of your side, you have to do a bit more research into both sides of the arguement.  I'd highly siggest reading the link that was posted early. I believe it was for http://mises.org

No one is censoring you. By choosing to focus on responding to non-arguments, you are censoring yourself. :)

More importantly, don't give up. If you are sincere then you will realize that in order to sway others you must first learn to make flexible your own trunk. ;p  By that I mean to say that you just have to adjust your angle of approach in your discussion. Eventually, if what you are saying is not completely crazy people will come around and have a normal, human type talk with you.

cheers

I hope they don't step on me before I develop that skill, as there is already one such American hating example in this thread. With that hatred will I ever be able to thrive?

Or maybe it's just destiny for opinions to be incommunicable. We're all coming from different directions with different goals. Which is why I tried to state my opinion as objectively and clearly as I knew how. Well, it wasn't good enough according to you but at least I tried right? No one is perfect.

If people are such assholes why would you want them to rule over you in government?

Logical fallacy.

Well, you don't. That's the point of the United States' checks and balances of power. You want them to do what they CAN do, and not step out of line with their egotistic superman or superwoman imagination.

What checks and balances of power?

The ones that are bought and influenced by special interest groups called humans conning other humans. It's inevitable.

There world is spiraling into chaos and reason is slowing it down. but you cannot reason with the unreasonable. inevitably, you will make a mistake in judgement, thinking you can. Like for example, electing Obama for president was a mistake in judgement I would say. he was hoping to be president and he got his dream. What did we get? nothing.

So what exactly is your opinion? That Bitcoin will fail? We already got that. If that's it, just move on, because you're not going to convince anyone here.
BTW, I don't think your personal opinion can be objective, as it's "tainted" by YOUR perceptions, knowledge etc...

Fine. Your opinion is noted.

See ya.

The USD has devalued 98% in the last 99 years. Bitcoin has grown exponentially in 3.5 years. At the current rates, the USD will eventually become almost worthless and BTC will become almost priceless.

OP is a troll.  Ranting on bitcoin in a bitcoin forum to get attention.  When bitcoin becomes $100 a coin I will be laughing.

+1 Besides the response above, it's a waste of time for us to even respond to this same worn-out argument, and so many others, which have been debated and redebated here.

It's much more useful to spend the time interacting with your significant other, than pouring the same old thing from the void into the vacant with the likes of the OP...

Just keep using B, if you think it's beneficial to you, and let B speak for itself. Time will tell who's right and wrong...  8)

OP, read this.  It will explain why you need to get into bitcoin:

Bitcoin  - The Libertarian Introduction
http://evoorhees.blogspot.com/2012/04/bitcoin-libertarian-introduction.html

Who exactly owes me for stolen cash?

If anything, the point you mention is a similarity with cash.

OP - Bitcoin is important because, for the first time ever, individuals get 100% control over their own money. It is important because it gives the individual financial privacy and power, regardless of how many large organizations seek to take that power away. With Bitcoin, I command wealth which no government or corporation can counter. This is intensely powerful stuff, and I encourage you to ponder on its ramifications for a while.

If you prefer to let other people control your money (whether the creation of it, the storage of it, or the transfer of it), then you will likely not find significant value in Bitcoin.

a lot of you are missing the point. It's not about if Bitcoin will fail from a technical standpoint. Technically, like they used to say about the United States, it cannot fail. but I don't think that's really why I made this thread... Just reflecting, the real concern is what security the little guy has. Clearly he has none because the community as a whole is as a said, a bee hive. The 51% concept applies everywhere. The 49% lose. The minority has no security. If I think differently, I'm expelled. and yes I do think differently.. I think that if I have a problem here, no one is going to help me. It's every man for himself from the bottom to the top or vice versa. It's nothing about true community. There is no trustworthy backbone.

What do you need help with? People are really pretty helpful here.

The little guys comprise muck more than 49% so I think you must be confused.

Funny, you said muck.. then I noticed your sig. and I knew someone would turn it back on me and ask what I need help with.. Well that's great if one or two out of 1000 are willing to help. but even that small percentage of helpful will turn their back as issues grow larger and more complex. I believe Bitcoin is elitism favored at the core, what I mean by that is the elite are favored and they show no mercy to the non-elite who dare to not be convinced of the structure of Bitcoin. and to be honest I'm making this thread, not because I think I can change anything, or to directly ridicule anyone. I've posted these thoughts an opinions firstly because I believe them, the power is available for me to post, and in the end I think I will be proven right and probably censored so I had to get it out while I can. Also, because I was bored. Sort of like the founding fathers of the United States who, probably in moments of boredom, sat down and predicted what is happening today. I'll dig up some of their quotes later on and post here. I truly believe that the founding fathers did not really have faith in their country. It was more of a positive attitude projected outward, rather than a truly convinced belief that the system was immune to evils.

ridgemont, ok, so the USA is responsible
for USD.  what about gold? who is
responsible for gold?

That's not really what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the true value of Bitcoin and I see a comparison with the United States. Both were created to fulfill mans greed, not mans need. The current United States does nothing for me. Neither does the current Bitcoin. and I don't think anything can change the way humanity works. This is just how it is, and we are doomed to spiral into chaos because greed is the master of most. I also believe Occupy Wall Street was inspired by greed. Anyway, the US dollar is not backed by gold.. If you think that's true, that's very laughable. It's backed by perception, just like Bitcoin at the moment, and I have yet to see the ground upon which those perceptions stand, because I really don't think it exists.

Don't get me wrong. I really wish Bitcoin was practical and actually I do believe it has the potential to be useful. It's just that the community really doesn't exist in a way that would allow it to flourish. Greed is on the forefront of the minds of those who participate in this. How you can get yours rather than how others can get theirs. For example, why would I want to accept Bitcoins when there is that chance someone could steal and leave no trace? Who am I going to cry to for help? Everyone will laugh and point, saying, you fool! you used those pesky Bitcoins and now you got robbed. Even the Bitcoin community will laugh because they will tell me I should have set up this system, or that system, etc.

What the MAIN Bitcoin site needs to do is offer true security of your wealth. an intricate accounting system for every Bitcoin is the beginning in solving this. Plus this needs to be something easily understood and communicable to those who have a short attention span of interest. People don't have much time to waste these days. If you cannot convince people easily to use it, they won't. And I have yet to be convinced myself because I really do not like how it works right now. It's too difficult, too anonymous, too elitist, swaying toward those "in the know". I feel like a prey, wasting my time chasing these coins when I can't even trust their method of storage. Maybe you can, but I can't. Doesn't matter what layers of security I've taken. Without accounting for every Bitcoin, so that each one can be traced, there's no security in my mind.

sounds like you should stick with usd.  bitcoin at this point in time is not ready for Gavin's grandma but when it is perhaps you will be ready to use it.

welcome to the real world, mi amigo.  yes there is greed all around us. I argue, however, that wallstreet has more greed than bitcoiners.

Why are you speaking to me in Spanish? I'm not Hispanic. and please refrain from "welcoming" me anywhere. You are nobody besides a poster on a Bitcoin forum. What authority do you have to welcome me anywhere? and yea, argue all you want. I'm not arguing anything just stated how I feel. If my opinions offend you... well maybe you're the one who needs a reality check. Opinions are all around us. Speaking of grandmothers, my grandmother is more tolerant than some of you.

Ha. This is the internets where authority is not required, my friend.

Im not offended. Btw, all I did was confirm everything you said.  I agrees there is greed.  I agree that bitcoin may not be for you.

He has the security of having the option of just walking away, sell his bitcoins and stop using it. If you can't see the difference between that and governments I suggest you go to your government and tell them you'd like to leave your country without having to pay anything and without any further obligations.

Btw you also clearly misunderstand the 51% attack and what it can do.

That's not true either. It's not like your comment was left in a corner to rot. A lot of people are conversing with you. You've been selectively replying to less helpful comments. I've asked you these questions:

• Which problem with USD can you hold someone responsible for, that also exists in Bitcoin?
• Do you really think that the judicial system excludes Bitcoin? What about law enforcement?
• This one is extra: Do you think that banking/insurance is not possible with Bitcoin?

One more thing. Using Bitcoin is easy. It's not harder to use than any other form of money. But, just as people must have experienced with the introduction of new forms of payment in the past, you have to wrap your head around many new concepts and become able to reason about them clearly. At that point Bitcoin is immensely beneficial. It doesn't make sense to reduce the benefits of Bitcoin to make it more like traditional currency + banking system (interestingly you aren't talking about one or the other, you are talking about the amalgamation of both) in order to hasten adoption, it's best to patiently wait for people to take the leap. Maybe the most beneficial thing about Bitcoin isn't the tool itself, it's the modes of thinking it allows.

Unlike others here I'm gonna have a go at addressing your concerns and help reason this out.

Your fear, as I understand it, is that because there is no authority to regulate the value of Bitcoin, then it will catastrophically fail one day when natural market forces suddenly swing into a bank run when some individual, agent, company, etc. sells en-masse huge numbers of coins or commits some action that panics the market and there's a massive incentive to bail out of Bitcoin. Your other posts say that you are confident that cryptographically and procedurally Bitcoin is not in danger, simply that the value of Bitcoin is not controlled by an overseeing agency. OK? ok.

Something you distinguish as critical defining qualities of the USD and BTC is:

• USD value is regulated by the Federal Reserve.
• BTC value is not regulated and only subject to market forces.

On the surface that looks to be a big difference but consider a further, fundamentally defining attribute.

• Federal Reserve can create infinite credit to introduce more USD and impose "interest rates" to mitigate credit created.
• Bitcoin has a limited supply, and fixed distribution rate. No credit.

Now, as I understand it, the Federal Reserve's purpose was to help stabilise massive economies and help prevent catastrophic crashes by creating credit to ease huge losses (essentially bail out banks) and impose interest rates in the good times to help mitigate credit introduced into the financial system (this is obviously a very simple description, and I could be wrong). The Federal reserve's initial purpose was to regulate the supply of money created by banks so inflation didn't destroy the currency, but also soften the impact of crashes in the future (I think this is why in 1907 after the crash the fed was created https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_reserve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_reserve)).

Now if you noticed, USD has absolutely no distribution control, credit into the system and interest rates is largely controlled by the Fed at the whim of men in skyscrapers wearing expensive suits that are corruptible, flawed and terrifying. Bitcoin on the other hand doesn't need a central authority controlling distribution because it is already mandated how new money is created and a HARD limit on the maximum amount of money circulating in the system is very tightly controlled. Everyone that uses Bitcoin agrees to this, without exception or reservation.

What this leaves us with is the market itself. In a USD market swings in growth or a contraction in growth can be artificially slowed by the Fed. But this is also ripe for abuse, wars can be quickly funded by creating more money, as well as bailing out institutions "too big to fail", without needing to hold anyone to account. It means bad men can be kept in power and no-one will necessarily be held to account. Manipulating the money supply to small degrees doesn't adversely affect rich individuals, governments, or corporations very badly but it means the buying power of middle class and lower class is severely undercut as inflation slowly undermines the value of what little dollars they have (this means the rich stay rich since they have a huge supply of money on hand, but the middle/lower class get hit much harder financially, since they have little/nothing for when bad times arise) . Interest rates also hit the middle and lower classes the worst too. Whats more, Democratic systems can't change monetary policy since the Fed is an independent non-governmental entity.

The Bitcoin market however is a wily and uncontrolled beast as you imply. I believe the answer is a bit more grey though. In the early stages of the Bitcoin economy (like now) we will definitely have fluctuations in value that are largely beyond control, it is Bitcoin's wild west we are experiencing right now. Caveat emptor should be the catch-cry for Bitcoin novices. But the fact is that very few people have Bitcoins, the distribution is not thin enough that a single individual's buying power won't cause massive swings as large buys and sells are made. But over time as Bitcoins get distributed among more users, the Bitcoin supply slows, more businesses trade in Bitcoin, and more miners enter the race to validate blocks, I believe we'll see the value of Bitcoin reach a stable level. Bitcoinica also demonstrated how trading mechanisms can help minimise trader's fears and help stabilise Bitcoin value, lets hope another, better implemented and planned trading platform fills this gap. Bad news, and mad rushes as a new part of society embraces Bitcoin as the next big thing are definitely growing pains that we will all experience to a greater or lesser extent. An overseer could "stabilise" this, but we must weigh up the good with the bad here. Any human intervention on value is entirely corruptible, regardless of what "safety mechanisms" are put in place. The USD's Fed system is probably the worst of them all, and I for one would never want a Fed-like system, or even something similar with human(s) at the helm "Benevolently" keeping our Bitcoin's value safe. As long as Bitcoin remains useful, stable (code-wise and cryptographically wise), and well supported by the mining community, Bitcoin's value as a currency is fairly well assured. It needs no overseer.

Trust the market, or trust the Fed. Only one of these has no agenda over the value of your money.

Well, thanks for trying, but it's nothing I haven't already heard before. I'm just not convinced that Bitcoin is really fulfilling any need in the world. Not that it's anyone's duty to convince me. Please don't think it is.. I just find it peculiar that anyone would preach that it does fill a need, unless you're talking about the internet black market, and that sadly would lead to a problem where those who hold Bitcoins would only have one use for them. Black market use... Perhaps this does invite some positivity in a paradoxic way in that this helps the bitcoins users of the world realize the content of the black market is really not that valuable, and they will return to the broken systems in the non-digital world and attempt to fix them rather than create a new system. I say that would be great but I don't have that kind of faith in humanity by any means.

You are aware that even USD will be made completely digital here over the next few years right? Citation needed here, but it has been directly stated that the goal of our(USD) currency is to go completely digital by 2017. Would that not bother you then, as you slowly get less and less control over your own money? As banks and goverments basicly gain a 'kill switch' over your worth?

That was a huge post by SimonL.  SimonL went out of his way to explain the differences between USD and bitcoin.  If that doesn't budge ridgemont then nothing will.  Although ridgemont did admit bitcoins have black market uses.

You don't wish to be welcomed?

OK. Get the fuck out, asshole.

Was that mean enough? ;D

The OP is utter garbage.   The whole reason Sastoshi made BTC was to take control of a exchange unit out of the control of few people and put it into a different system of management.   I think this is just trolling of the first order.  No one said BTC was the solution, just an alternative.   What ever agency sent this shill should please try and give a higher quality shill in the future.

D

The irony is your mode of attack is so unoriginal. Assuming an agency sent me.. Ok, that's already a 2011 thing to say. "Shill" oh geez, when will that one die. "first order troll". Gee, it's like the more you deflect, the less YOU must account for the words and opinions others. If anything you are the "shill", but I really hate to use that word.

There's no point in posts of your nature. Why? because you are not saying anything original. You are simply uttering the popular sentiment. Please only return if you're bringing original content.

Don't sit here and try and play stupid after you went off and wrote a bunch propaganda against Bitcoin and then you sit here trying to get sympathy because you can't not express your word properly.   You are a joke,  I will give every person the ability to grow and learn, so who knows, maybe we will even be friends?   Until then, why not try reading and listening more before you come here throwing around such large opinions here that you know is going to get people on here expressing their own.  

D

Huh?? That last part was really confusing. You almost cast this horrible light on expressing opinions. I don't get it.

First, list all the monetary theories you have read.   You don't even want to see my library.   I bet your using the United States because that is the "only" one you know and you live their. 


How about this, the U.S. dollar has already failed by some metrics.   Nation is close to GDP.   Is has lost 98% of its value since its current inception (FRN), even while it had a mandate to maintain purchasing power.  We have unfunded liabilities to the order or 54 trillion dollars and growing.   We import over 70% of all our finished goods.  And to top it off, we still import over 14 million barrels of oil a day, ON A DEFICIT.   

So tell me by what measure can you even compare the two?

Come to the united states, we have cookies! Also, lots of debt and a promise to pay backed by a fucking massive mercenary army.

Oh- you wanted to send some cash back to the homeland? Sorry, fuck you, you are a terrorist.

OH NOW HE HAS A VOICE.  YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME.    I hate trolls like this, they are the worst.

This guy is a plant, maybe someone should ban him for being disingenuous.   I am serious.

Please prove that I am a plant.. the biggest irony is you're being disingenuous even that much more. I am serious.

And this is exactly what I'm talking about when I say special interests. You've got a mining company or something going on.. Wow good for you, but to censor my opinion makes you the biased shill, or "plant". You employ yourself coming from a biased standpoint. Get real. If anything is bad about Bitcoin and the world in general, it's exactly people like you.

Ok, you want to call me out, I will explain my reasoning.   Just read the totality of all your posts on this thread and see how you tactic changed from post to post trying every little angle to see what is effective.  At first you were this mis-understood person that JUST couldn't get the words out so we could have sympathy.  Then as more of the serious members come in and start challenging you, slowly (a miracle), you got your voice and your opinion got more and more complex right before out eyes.   It vastly expanded, like magic.   Now you a full grown man or women, with lots of big words and structure sentences. 

Now, to the point you made about my mining company.  I mine for two reasons, I can do it profitably (sustainable at the moment) and it supports the network.  I actually first mined in the Spring of 2010 when I heard about this concept and thought it was going to just be a hobby project, wow, look at us now.   I actually have not actually used my words thus far to push anyone in either direction when we are talking about BTC in this thread.   People can do what they want, I was just address these comments you are throwing around.   I actually have seen this post for a little bit and wasn't going to read it because I knew this was what is was going to be.   Guess what, I was right, shame on me.

D

Let me know when you find a perfect human being.
and please tell me what makes me any less serious than others who you believe to be serious? do you have the place to declare that?
Yeah and I sort of knew what would happen before making this thread. I guess we all stumble from time to time. Shame on me as well?

That is your response, give me a break.   That is what I thought.   

Is there a number of words requirement?

Nope, just a content requirement.

No offense to either one of you, OP or the person I am about to reference if the answer is no. But are you Luke-jr?

Am I Luke-jr? No.. I'm ridgemont4.

Now I am confused....I thought the OP made a blatant attempt to get people to sell Bitcoins and the second poster demonstrated (rather hilariously) how to more directly connecting the dots...

Or was the OP serious?  I didn't see an actual argument in the original post...

That's because not every opinion is an argument. I know, the English speaking internet has trouble grasping this concept lately. I'm not sure what percentage of the internet has had the experience of participating in a conversation within their lifetime.

Anyone can assert anything. I think what I really meant was something else. That's the beauty of a conversation. It builds until eventually you come to self realization of why you are speaking. I know why I wrote a thread, it was because something was bothering me about Bitcoin. I know why I compare it to other currencies and leaned on casting a darker light on Bitcoin. Why? because I want to know what you think makes Bitcoins better. Some posters have given long responses as to why, but forgive me for giving an outsiders opinion, regardless if it's been given countless times before. Forgive me if I cannot express myself well. I'm not trying to find sympathy from anyone. I'm not at your mercy at the end of the day, and I think it's that very arrogance which hinders any system from being useful to humanity. Is Bitcoin essentially elitist? then stop portraying it as filling a need. If you do that, I am inclined to think I'd rather stick with something that has a more official backing. I don't fight a war by creating a better system. I fight a war by FIGHTING THE WAR. Cowards go off and start new... but a true servant to liberation dies on the very land they are protecting.

I'm sure many will think my opinions are junk, and cluttering the board. If that's how you truly feel, then fine. Please no longer respond to this thread and it will go away.

Maybe I'm wrong about everything, and you're all right about everything.

The problem is not that in my opinion. When I go to a bar and start conversing (which is often not in English), and present my opinion, and someone takes me seriously enough to create an elaborate and well-thought response (be it right or wrong, honesty and effort is what counts), I can't just say "well I'm not convinced" without addressing any points they made. I've been in circles where that kind of interaction wasn't frowned upon, but good conversations just don't happen in such environments.

Too bad because that's reality. Opinions are merciless. Plus, I'm actually being much more humane about it than I need be. Partially because I don't want to be banned, which is pretty sad in itself. but also because I'm playing the devils advocate to an extent, by giving a vantage point of what I know certain outsiders would think about Bitcoin. Those kind of people won't tell you what they feel, because they're afraid to be in the position I'm in right now.. the line of fire. If I feel it, I'll probably say it. Even though I said I was advocating for others, I also feel this way. It is what it is. That's just life and the only way you can stop it is if you kill me.

It's not plausible to think anybody will ban you for anything you say in these forums. It just won't happen. If you create a lot of identities and a lot of junk threads, then maybe. But not for opinions.


Atlas?

Stop asking me if I'm somebody else. There's no way to prove it anyway. Why bother? I can't prove I'm not.

What is even more shocking is he is not a plant and actually believes and acts this way in real life.  I think a lot of people here are trying to explain to him how bitcoin works but he has a victim mentality and believes the forum and all of humanity is trying to get him.  In fact, on one of my posts I was actually agreeing with him but he played the victim and argued with me. 

You're the type of person who would kill someone for their own good.

As a United States citizen I have no choice but to pay taxes to fund wars to keep our freedom.  Freedom isn't free.

Then how is it freedom?