You both make very good points. Thank you for that.
Im going to post some of the main points here then we can continue to discuss.
He posted this January 22nd. During that time the shareholders were split between a refund and waiting. -
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=347907.msg4668563#msg4668563To all Neptune shareholders (Batch 1 and Batch 2):
There has been a lot of speculation regarding Neptunes in the KnCMiner thread- Long story short, it's looking like they may not hit a return, may be delivered late (not a rush job on KnCMiner, they have stated they will take their time to produce the Neptune) and on top of that may have trouble running in US households. I know I have my own datacenter but the speculation has been leaning towards an even more power hungry setup may be needed and at this point investing more into the setup here (31cents/kw) would not make sense. I have considered moving to a warehouse setup but again, not sure how cost effective that will be.
Now, I'm not saying we should back out (yet) but I wanted to get everyones opinions/feelings on the situation and go from there.
If we back out and go the refund route, that means they would have to wire 10K USD into my bank.
Since I would not be sending everyone USD- I would take everyones share (10K - 5% fee / 60 shares) and purchase BTC at the current rate and send it over to each shareholder.
I think refunds in BTC after the above had been completed would be around ~.2 per share (rough estimate!)
Again, I'm not saying we will go this route but I wanted to propose all options.
1. We continue to wait and hope for the best
2. We go the refund route
Please, everyone who has a share(s) voice your opinion, thanks!
He posted this on April 15th. Few replies were received. Everyone was generally unsure about how refunds would work given that the refund would be in USD. -
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=493443.msg6240603#msg6240603Alright guys, looks like we're going to go with Neptune refunds since KnCminer will do a US bank transfer. This will probably take a couple of weeks to get processed and like I stated before this will be somewhat of a timely process for me to purchase the amount of coins to do refunds. I am considering pulling out cold storage coins to just get your guys your BTC sooner than later (only because KnCMiner has agreed to a refund if requested).. but still debating that. We don't have enough to keep a full miner and the clear decision, vocally, is refunds.
Like stated in my OP, you will receive all your BTC minus 5% fee.
That comes out to:
Neptunes 1-4: ฿0.2375/share
Neptune 5: ฿0.2565/share
Neptune 6: ฿0.3135/share
I honestly feel this is the best move for share holders at this time. Still no chips in hand, power requirements are still MIA and a rising difficulty- I think the refund is going to get you more BTC back in hand in the long run. Even with the most hopeful outcome of us being super early in June, that's still a 10B+ dif , looking at the earnings calculator (which doesn't include electric fees yet for obv reasons) almost proves the refund is the best choice. I'll let this sit for this week while I try to move some coins around and hopefully can start refunding soon (once I confirm again with KnC).
Cheers all.
One reply was made saying to go ahead with it, and another was made discussing the conundrum we are now debating. -
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=493443.msg6252233#msg6252233
Will the first one who payed be the first one to get the BTC back?
Once I get the guarantee from KnC that they have indeed cancelled/began refund process (awaiting reply for official refund) I may refund everyone out of my own personal cold storage coins at the same time (same day). There's no need to drag out refunds for a month(s) as long as I know KnC is refunding me down the line.. on top of that it gets everyone their coins MUCH sooner.. and maybe gives them some coin to invest into something else with.
the refunds were sent using his own BTC. 95% of each share sent back to the shareholders.
Today,
May 14th, after much discussion without waldohoover replying to the shareholders concerns, he posted this. -
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=347907.msg6730043#msg6730043Holy crap! The pitchforks are out!
So, if I'm not mistaken it looks as if
people think that I have received money from KnCMiner when I have already explained that I have NOT received ANYTHING from KnCminer. How about you guys take a look inside the KnCMiner thread and see how people are still waiting for refunds that have been OVER A MONTH.
I paid everyone out of my own pocket 95% of their BTC (Just as the OP states). Now, I see you greedy people are looking for an extra payout if I'm able to recoop more BTC when the checks or bank transfer arrives. Well shit guys, I don't know what to tell you because
I have no received a wire transfer from KnCMiner so how the F are you all going to say I'm scamming you or I'm being shady or doing something wrong when I went out of my way to give you your BTC back.
I hate when I try to do something good, and someone has to flip it into an angry mob.
At this point I almost wish I would have let you guys stick with Neptunes and let it not give any ROI
. I made the decision[because although you deny it, I sure as hell am looking out of you guys] to do the refund route. You got 95% of your BTC back
which you agree'd to on day 1 of buying a share. I'm still ~100BTC negative because I paid you guys first, hoping for a timely refund from KnCMiner. Instead of praise, I get hate. There's no winning in this for me.
When the time comes and I actually start to purchase my BTC back. (I'm going to have to purchase BTC over a course of time, I can't just do a large ass purchase on my account). So on top of the refund, I still have to tally what I end up at the end of the day. Am I going to watch the market and buy at the best time? You're sure as shit I will be, it will most likely take 5+ transactions to recoup all of the BTC back (I do not have some large business account where I can make huge purchases).
So, I'm understanding this correctly, if/when I'm able to recoop my BTC back later, you guys all want a piece of it right?
Until I do purchase all the BTC with the refunds I'm still awaiting from KnCMiner, the outcome of this is as is:
All share holders have received their BTC in full minus the 5% fee agree'd on during time of purchase.But:
Share holders want more BTC if I'm able to buy it at a lower USD rate when refunds are received at a later time. Got it.
I won't hate on you guys too much either, when I was all about the money and greed, of course I would try to get as much as I could. Instead of saying "thanks for giving me what I expected from day 1 and not scamming me and keeping my money and running away." But that's not the majority of the new bitcoin community, as above shows.
When the transfers arrive and I begin to purchase coins, updates are posted to the blog.
For the greedys, I'm sure I'll get some hate and PMs etc. wanting more BTC. That's fine. Like I stated above, when news happens it will be announced.
And for the other majority of you guys, thank you for the kind PMs and emails.
It seems waldohoover kind of jumped the gun on sending out refunds. Originally he planned to divide the USD less 5% and buy BTC then split between shareholders. Then proposed sending his own BTC less 5% as the refund drew closer. With barely any discussion he went ahead and sent his own BTC anyway. He should have waited to hear back from more of the shareholders before refunding.
The original agreement didnt state how a refund would work depending on the currency refunded. It seems apparent that waldohoovers statement on January 22nd would be the protocol for refunds. In his latest post on May 14th, that suddenly changed.
This all leads to the main question. What will happen when KnC refunds the USD to waldohoover?
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