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10021  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin can you stand alone? on: December 06, 2016, 01:17:42 AM
Can you stop pricing yourself in fiat?

I would say it is with almost 100% certainty that you cannot.

I'm wondering just how long you will use the fiat banking system as your crutch.





Does it really need to stop pricing itself in fiat? The current system is fine by me to be honest and I like the idea that I have a choice between fiat and Bitcoin. To all the people who are going for the "dream" of a world where there is only Bitcoin need to wake up. Bitcoin is only good when there is fiat and strict monetary regulations. Bitcoin is the cancer that every government and financial regulatory body has to live with. If I had my way, I would make more monetary regulations so that Bitcoin's use will be much more effective in circumventing laws. Do you know how hard it is to buy drugs online without Bitcoin?
10022  Economy / Speculation / Re: Will the Bitcoin price ever drop back down to $500? on: December 05, 2016, 03:17:15 AM
A month or 2 ago I would have said yes. In fact I had buy orders placed at the mid $500's because I really thought that Bitcoin will stay below $600 until early next year. Answering your question now, I could only tell you to look at the price now and look how strong it is. Does that look like it will go back down to $500 to you?

Yeah, we well remember how you had been claiming that folks were in denial if they expected the price to rise above $600 till the end of 2016. As it turned out, it was mainly you who were in outright denial back then. So what will your next prophecy be? Or will you refrain from prophesying altogether?

So as not to lose face again

As I mentioned before, please take what I say with a grain of salt. I will not refrain form "prophesying" because what you call "prophesying" is just speculation after all. This IS the speculation board of the whole forum, is it not? I am not afraid of losing face because I am not an expert and I have never claimed to be one. So take my "prophecies" as you will or just ignore them altogether. But that will not stop me from expressing myself.

Prophesying is not the same as speculating. Speculating (as in making guesses) about future (including future price of something) admits the possibility of being wrong while prophesying doesn't. In this aspect, prophesying is the opposite of speculating. Basically, it defies the existence of alternative outcomes. If we should have taken what you had prophesied with a grain of salt, we would have had to treat you as a clown (nothing personal here). And I guess many thought of you this way exactly. Whether it is a speculation board is irrelevant, but what you actually say is...

It is a difference that makes the difference

Take of what I said as you will and see me as you will too. I do not care. It is your right and I do not judge all of you for it. The wrong thing to do is trying to discourage a person from expressing himself simply because he or she made a mistake. Get off your high horse as if you have not made a mistake yourself.
10023  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Will Bitcoin send the IRS to the moon? on: December 05, 2016, 03:13:30 AM
Will the IRS hijack the Bitcoin moon rocket?

Seems so.

They are a very powerful and respectable agency.

What say you?

What say me? I say they will be in for a challenge in taxing all Bitcoin users at Coinbase. That is just at Coinbase, so I cannot imagine just how insanely hard it will be to track the users of Bitcoin in all of the US. It will be a stupidly futile attempt to collect taxes from Bitcoiners. What they will end up doing is do what the US government does best, and that is fear mongering.

I would love to see them try taxing the Bitcoin dark market users. That is where the real money is.

You don't think that is a bit to over confident.

IMO the Bitcoin community has been in this giant bubble since inception.

Almost a feeling like they are untouchable or something.

I think the IRS played Bitcoin letting it think it was untouchable for all these years.

Now it is making it's moves.

Time will tell I guess.

Just have to wait and see how many "you owe us xx amount of $" letters start showing up at people's houses.



Yes Bitcoin is a giant bubble. Yes it does not have intrinsic value. But I sure can sell my Bitcoins at $750 per coin right now and that is all I care about.

The IRS has nothing on Bitcoin. But they are free to try to imprison all the Coinbase users or fine them if they were not paying taxes. Then what?

Back to bubbles. If you think it is a bubble now, you have not seen nothing yet. Wink
10024  Economy / Exchanges / Re: Coinbase and the IRS. What is the possbile outcome? on: December 05, 2016, 03:07:49 AM
~ to hide hundreds of millions of dollars belonging to US citizens. ~paid a fine of $780m ~

If the same were to happen to Coinbase then I would say they better close now or suffer the consequences~

the amounts are not even the same, those who have this much money in bitcoin are never going to use coinbase for bitcoin ever.

besides they have been working with the government from the beginning and honestly i am surprised this has only surfaced today.

it seems like people have forgotten how US government arrested KAT owner?

There will be a few large accounts. It is unlike the IRS to issue a summons and follow it up to win the court case, if they didn't suspect large scale tax evasion. It definitely won't be similar to the scale of UBS, but it will be substantial.

Watch the price of Bitcoin soar to mask the actual effect this will have.

All it will take is the ask/bid bot to be "reconfigured".

It will be a double edged sword though.

Higher price = less adoption = more tax revenue for the IRS

I feel sorry for whoever is juggling the BTC price right now.



Adoption of what? The mainstream? I would say that Bitcoin use is ok right now. It is funny listening to the thousands of people who are jaded because they expected Bitcoin to disrupt the banks and be in widespread use by now according to their estimations.

Bitcoin was not made for markets that are served by the banking industry. It will only be used widely in markets that are not served by the banks and markets that do not pay taxes.
10025  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Where to Trade? on: December 05, 2016, 02:59:14 AM
Does the IRS snooping around Coinbase not bother you? I know they are there for only tax purposes but just to be safe, it would be advisable to stay away. What if the IRS finds something over there like some evidence of money laundering? That could be enough to lock down the site and have your Bitcoins trapped.
10026  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Where to Trade? on: December 04, 2016, 04:36:27 AM
Where can we trade bitcoin Instantly? Buy and sell bitcoin instantly sounds like the ideal deal when we want earn profits from bitcoin with its ever changing value in dollars.
But is there a place where we can buy and sell bitcoin instantly?

You can use some exchange sites if you want to start trading with bitcoin instantly. You can try to use bitstamp.net, coinbase, btc-e.com and there are a lot more of it just google it out. And most of them are capable to buy your bitcoins instantly and as well as selling some bitcoins. There are also some people who are using virwox.com

Stay away from virwox.com. That is not a good exchange for Bitcoin trading. Also stay away from Coinbase. The IRS are after them and they are demanding that they hand over the transaction records of all their customers. That is an invasion of privacy and if some users are caught evading taxes, they will be prosecuted. I believe Coinbase will also be prosecuted for being an enabler.

Bitstamp was hacked last year with $6m stolen from them. The same with Bitfinex, it was also hacked and some money was stolen. That leaves us with BTCe. The owners are anonymous but have been trustworthy so far.
10027  Economy / Exchanges / Coinbase and the IRS. What is the possbile outcome? on: December 04, 2016, 04:26:20 AM
I just read an article at coindesk.com entitled "What the IRS Summons Will Mean for Coinbase Users", located here.

It mentioned that (I will copy/paste below)

"The situation is reminiscent of the John Doe summons which the IRS issued in 2009 during the UBS Bank offshore banking scandal.

UBS had set up Swiss bank accounts to hide hundreds of millions of dollars belonging to US citizens. Swiss banking secrecy cracked, UBS sent a list of names to the IRS, and individuals were prosecuted.

UBS paid a fine of $780m and some Americans with UBS bank accounts paid fines in the millions and went to prison."

If the same were to happen to Coinbase then I would say they better close now or suffer the consequences if they continue on under the scrutiny of the IRS and risking the fact that Brain Armstrong and the rest could go to jail. So is this the beginning of Coinbase's demise or do they have a case to fight against the IRS?
10028  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Will Bitcoin send the IRS to the moon? on: December 04, 2016, 04:11:21 AM
Will the IRS hijack the Bitcoin moon rocket?

Seems so.

They are a very powerful and respectable agency.

What say you?

What say me? I say they will be in for a challenge in taxing all Bitcoin users at Coinbase. That is just at Coinbase, so I cannot imagine just how insanely hard it will be to track the users of Bitcoin in all of the US. It will be a stupidly futile attempt to collect taxes from Bitcoiners. What they will end up doing is do what the US government does best, and that is fear mongering.

I would love to see them try taxing the Bitcoin dark market users. That is where the real money is.
10029  Economy / Speculation / Re: Will the Bitcoin price ever drop back down to $500? on: December 04, 2016, 03:37:08 AM
Do any of you that follow the price of Bitcoin closely think that the price will ever drop back down to $500 or something close to it? And why or why not?

A month or 2 ago I would have said yes. In fact I had buy orders placed at the mid $500's because I really thought that Bitcoin will stay below $600 until early next year. Answering your question now, I could only tell you to look at the price now and look how strong it is. Does that look like it will go back down to $500 to you?

Yeah, we well remember how you had been claiming that folks were in denial if they expected the price to rise above $600 till the end of 2016. As it turned out, it was mainly you who were in outright denial back then. So what will your next prophecy be? Or will you refrain from prophesying altogether?

So as not to lose face again


As I mentioned before, please take what I say with a grain of salt. I will not refrain form "prophesying" because what you call "prophesying" is just speculation after all. This IS the speculation board of the whole forum, is it not? I am not afraid of losing face because I am not an expert and I have never claimed to be one. So take my "prophecies" as you will or just ignore them altogether. But that will not stop me from expressing myself.
10030  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Patent trolling in the Bitcoin world on: December 04, 2016, 03:31:44 AM
If I understand this correctly they don't want to patent existent bitcoin tech but some sort of solution they invested to prevent stealing private keys.
So it is not exactly patent trolling, correct? Patent trolling was attempt from Craig Wright when he wanted to patent blockchain as his invention.
But their reason is so embarrassing that at this point I don't believe in their good intentions anymore.

Maybe it is me who misunderstood patent trolling. As I understand it, an entity applies for a patent but does not have the intention to build what he or she has patented. So when someone else accidentally "invents" the same idea the entity who applied for the patent first has the right to file an intellectual property related case against the person who has actually built the invention.

I am not sure if that is a case of patent trolling but I think that is what some of these companies are doing.

They might not have the intention to build now, but they think these patents might be useful in the future. Even if these patents are not built upon, it might be useful in litigation. For example, if a big company sues you for patent violation, you can counter-sue if you hold a patent which they are using. Like in the Google vs Samsung case.

Hence the use of the term patent trolling. I am not sure but I think that situation bolded in your post is what the term is referring to. If an entity is only applying for patents without the intention to build now or in the future, and that the real purpose of applying for a patent is for litigation and sometimes profit then we can assume that entity is a patent troll.

Some people may think that it does not limit innovation but it really does. We cannot have our inventors think twice about creating and releasing a design simply because they are afraid of violating patent laws.

 
10031  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Patent trolling in the Bitcoin world on: December 03, 2016, 03:50:46 AM
If I understand this correctly they don't want to patent existent bitcoin tech but some sort of solution they invested to prevent stealing private keys.
So it is not exactly patent trolling, correct? Patent trolling was attempt from Craig Wright when he wanted to patent blockchain as his invention.
But their reason is so embarrassing that at this point I don't believe in their good intentions anymore.

Maybe it is me who misunderstood patent trolling. As I understand it, an entity applies for a patent but does not have the intention to build what he or she has patented. So when someone else accidentally "invents" the same idea the entity who applied for the patent first has the right to file an intellectual property related case against the person who has actually built the invention.

I am not sure if that is a case of patent trolling but I think that is what some of these companies are doing.
10032  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Why LN needs SegWit? on: December 03, 2016, 03:42:03 AM
Good question OP! I would like to hear the answer straight from either a Core developer who worked extensively on Segwit or from a developer who is working on an LN implementation. This question was asked before but no one who really knows about the subject has come forward to answer. If someone has please post the link in this thread.
10033  Economy / Speculation / Re: BEAR MARKET STARTED - BTC is overheated. I OPENED SHORT postition on: December 03, 2016, 03:34:33 AM
In a few days when we might correct again a bit, due to some oscillators which may be too high in terms of TA, he will come back and call out for the bear market continuing and that we all got bull trapped! Cheesy
Man sometims this place here can be so extremely funny!

It would be stupid of him to come back and say that this is a bull trap. First of all he made a mistake, so anyone believing him now is as stupid as him or maybe they are trolling. Second, this is not a bull trap. A bull trap happens when a market is going down, not up.
10034  Economy / Speculation / Re: Will the Bitcoin price ever drop back down to $500? on: December 03, 2016, 03:26:46 AM
Do any of you that follow the price of Bitcoin closely think that the price will ever drop back down to $500 or something close to it? And why or why not?

A month or 2 ago I would have said yes. In fact I had buy orders placed at the mid $500's because I really thought that Bitcoin will stay below $600 until early next year. Answering your question now, I could only tell you to look at the price now and look how strong it is. Does that look like it will go back down to $500 to you?
10035  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Patent trolling in the Bitcoin world on: December 03, 2016, 03:18:02 AM
I recently read this article on Coinbase. Coinbase Seeks Patent for Bitcoin Private Key Security System

It mentioned that there are Bitcoin companies like Blockstream, Digital Asset Holdings, and old companies such as AT&T and Nasdaq that are applying for patents relating to Bitcoin technology. I have also read that 21 Inc. have also applied for patents. Are we seeing the future of Bitcoin with a lot of patent trolls? Do they have the intention to make the products and tools out of those patents? It almost looks like they are limiting the developers' need to create.
10036  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Longest bitcoin transaction that you have waited? on: December 03, 2016, 03:09:17 AM
OP, it is funny that you made this thread. I just had my longest wait for a confirmation just yesterday. I waited around 6 - 8 hours to get one small transaction to be confirmed. I checked the mempool and it had a really high no. of unconfirmed transactions. Should this be a cause for concern? I do not think this is normal anymore.
10037  Economy / Speculation / Re: BEAR MARKET STARTED - BTC is overheated. I OPENED SHORT postition on: December 02, 2016, 03:15:15 AM
Have you closed your short or are you still waiting?

All who went short should be closing them now. It would be a mistake to continue to do so and keep on hoping that it will go the other way one day. Maybe it would, but by that time the price might already be too high and it was better to hold and go long in the first place.
10038  Economy / Speculation / Re: The adoption boom is coming on: December 02, 2016, 03:05:41 AM
Ransomware is natural evolution of cyber crime, it is not because bitcoin was invented we have this problem - it is the the other way around.
Blaming BTC for ransomware is like blaming RSA encryption schemes or any other encryption method - because thanks to them our files can be targeted...
Cryptocurrency is a just a catalyst for every cyber crime but it is too late to back off, if not BTC they would be using LTC, ETH, XMR or Dash - it doesn't matter.

Scare tactics and economic propaganda seem to be working as these misconceptions are still pervasive - even within the crypto community it seems.

If you think about it, BTC is actually NOT an excellent tool for doing stuff online - not when you have to go through the trouble of washing your bits a billion times (and believe me, the most dogged Tom, Dick or Harry can still trace back your bitcoins).

Doing fiat with corrupt bank officials is still the choiciest and easiest way for criminal activity. You can't "fix" the blockchain.

You are talking about big time criminals, for example, illegal arms merchants or human trafficking operators. And I suspect that the latter are not very interested in doing stuff online altogether, they are more "mundane" in this respect. Smaller fish like scammers, fraudsters and darkmarket users whose illegal activities are conducted mainly through Internet might not have such option readily available to them.  And this is where Bitcoin gets quite handy...

Even if you have to wash your dirty coins a few times

There is one use case where a big time crime ring could make use of Bitcoins. What about kidnapping for ransom? It would be a lot easier for them to collect money if it was done thru Bitcoin. Let us all wait for the day that a Mexican cartel ransom demand is done in Bitcoin. Or do you see how the big time hit men in the movies only use their computers to send and receive funds? That could happen with the use of Bitcoins. It will be much easier for them and safer.
10039  Economy / Speculation / Re: The adoption boom is coming on: December 02, 2016, 02:59:34 AM
Bitcoin's use will never be for that. The current system used for day to day shopping works perfectly. The banks and the payment processors that are established are all giving efficiency and convenience to their users so Bitcoin has no place in it. Where Bitcoin thrives and will thrive more is in the black market and online dark markets simply because the banks do not serve that space.
So basically you think that bitcoin is only good if you are a gambler, tax evader or black market user?

I do not consider it only good. It is a really excellent tool for doing illegal stuff online. Have you seen the interest from ransomware using hackers? It is increasing. I will not be astonished if we find out that different terrorist groups are using Bitcoin as a tool for value transfer.
Ransomware is natural evolution of cyber crime, it is not because bitcoin was invented we have this problem - it is the the other way around.
Blaming BTC for ransomware is like blaming RSA encryption schemes or any other encryption method - because thanks to them our files can be targeted...
Cryptocurrency is a just a catalyst for every cyber crime but it is too late to back off, if not BTC they would be using LTC, ETH, XMR or Dash - it doesn't matter.


That is not the point. My point is there is an increase in some illegal avenues of Bitcoin's use case. Whether or not Bitcoin caused it or not is irrelevant in what I am trying to say. Like you said, it is a natural evolution in cyber crime. Well the use of Bitcoin is already part of that evolution and it will not stop there, it will grow over time and at some point it might be impossible to stop it. It will become a part of society's ills in their life with the internet.

I would say that is an excellent use case for Bitcoin if it becomes widespread and unstoppable.

10040  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Go start your own fork you stupid fuck - on: December 02, 2016, 02:46:10 AM
In Bitcoin, the miners have the last say

Then I ask, why is there a need for all the drama from the Bitcoin Unlimited supporters since the miners will decide what is final anyway?

Maybe, they are just sowing the seeds of discord between miners?



Whatever they mean to do, it is not working. Right from the beginning the miners already know which "side" to support. To what reasons why they decided to pick a "side" is arguable. It may be politics, their earn or the safety and the well being of Bitcoin as a whole. So I do think in the end they will be supporting core all the way.
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