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Oh goody. Trump pushes something through so he can tick it off his list for the election. I love when those in government make intelligent decisions.
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“If you support Medicare for All, you have to be willing to end the greed of the health insurance and pharmaceutical industries,” he said. “That means boldly transforming our dysfunctional system by ending the use of private health insurance, except to cover non-essential care like cosmetic surgeries.”
His plan is to mobilize his followers to pressure the government to implement these things. He said as much in a Joe Rogen interview and his followers have said as much as well. We can certainly discuss whether or not it could actually happen, but that's what his plan is. Perhaps you don't get that they view this as a "revolution".
"Ending the use of private health insurance" is certainly an overstatement, as it can't be done and won't be done. Regardless, its still not the same thing as a government-mandated closure of private health insurance companies. That can't happen, and he knows it can't happen. It was never on the table. Sure. Putting policies in place that will effectively close many companies isn't mandating their closure. So we'll just find that acceptable for the government to do. It doesn't matter how he does it, it's that he wants to do it that's the bigger issue. I am all for medicare for all. But not his way. |
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I figure I'll put this out there as well. Bernie says he's a Democratic Socialist. Now. Either he's confused or he is what he says he is. Regardless, the end goal of democratic socialism and social democracy, is socialism. But for "Democratic Socialism" Democratic socialism is a political philosophy supporting political democracy within a socially owned economy, with a particular emphasis on workers' self-management and democratic control of economic institutions within a market socialist economy or some form of a decentralised planned socialist economy. Democratic socialists argue that capitalism is inherently incompatible with the values of freedom, equality and solidarity and that these ideals can only be achieved through the realisation of a socialist society. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism |
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This is just nonsense. First of all, the president doesn't have that kind of power. Second of all, when did Bernie say he wants to shut down ALL private insurance, virtually or otherwise? Third of all, to think that Bernie's vision of universal healthcare will come to full fruition is naive. Of course it would ultimately be just some watered-down compromise where the jobs of those possessing the most well-funded health insurance and hospital corporation lobbyists will remain protected, and likely Bernie won't even affect any real change in the industry, similar to what happened with Obama.
However, its still a step in the right direction - that we're at least willing to look at solutions to a massive problem - as the current healthcare system is heavily flawed and entirely unsustainable.
“If you support Medicare for All, you have to be willing to end the greed of the health insurance and pharmaceutical industries,” he said. “That means boldly transforming our dysfunctional system by ending the use of private health insurance, except to cover non-essential care like cosmetic surgeries.” His plan is to mobilize his followers to pressure the government to implement these things. He said as much in a Joe Rogen interview and his followers have said as much as well. We can certainly discuss whether or not it could actually happen, but that's what his plan is. Perhaps you don't get that they view this as a "revolution". |
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I wasn't even thinking about higher education, I was thinking about grades K-12, which is not only a fundamental right but mandatory...
Still don't agree that even that is a "right". There are lots of reasons to justify it or even make it mandatory but can't see how it's a right in any way. Once you make it mandatory then you can say it's your right (not be prevented from it) to go through it but you still can't say it's a fundamental right of a person. i.e. you are not born with any rights. Well. Unless you're religious then the whole "god given rights" thing comes into play and it has to be figured out what that actually entails which would then be set out in something like the constitution. Which does not say what your rights are other than what rights the government can't take away or infringe upon etc. Why not make it one?
Different discussion. My point was simply that it's not a right but I see so many claiming it is and they can never make a good argument for it other than say "I think it is". Awesome. Just let the government decide what companies should and should not exist based on... what... "feelings"... Yeah, ok then. Let's not take a more practical approach to phasing them out or working with them to shift to other things or writing actually good laws/regulations that would keep them from exploiting people. That would be far too rational. Fuck the "bad" companies. Which ones would be next I wonder? Well.. we can't shut them all down. Oh I know. The government will just take them on instead and will justify it cause.. they're "bad".. Yeah.. And people like you wonder why some get all up in arms about socialism.
I don't really understand how this addresses what I was saying in the slightest. I never suggested the government close any business, but you ran away with this notion for some reason. The existence of a medicare for all-type program (or "Public Option" as it was called in the Obama era) would place increased competition on for-profit insurers. Some of the more unsustainable ones would indeed go out of business, as they probably should. There are private insurers in every country that has socialized medicine, as it remains an economically-driven necessity. Nobody, however socialist they may be, is forcing any of them to close, and nobody thinks that would be a good idea. Bernie will do away with virtually ALL private insurance (effectively killing off a lot of companies). That's the plan and what I thought we were talking about in general. He's acknowledged that all those people will be out of work and he needs to allocate billions I think it was to deal with that until they can be transitioned to other employment. |
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it should be a right
Based on what? I would just love to hear a good justification for that. Based on the fact that its a required element for survival. Similar to how education is a right, None of that is a right. You know. Back in the day, I mostly paid my way through my higher education by taking terms off to work etc. Jobs did the same thing. Woz did the same thing. That's what people did instead of expecting others to hold their hand and give them things. You want something, go make it happen instead of thinking you're entitled to things you're not. Most that go onto higher education don't even know what they want to do. But they're conditioned to think it's what they should do so they can start generating taxes and racking up debt, become wage slaves, as quickly as possible. There is really no rush to run off and get a higher education. if a society wants its population....
That's the only argument that holds sway. If the society/country decides it's in their best interest to pay for those things then fine. But it's not a right. Edit: By the way. It's well known that a shit load of people are going to be put out of work by Bernie's plan. Can someone tell me what he's going to do with basically forcing companies to close down? Seems like no one cares that the government would end up doing that. An entire industry decimated it looks like to me.
If you are referencing the health insurance industry plan administrators, brokers, sales agents, reps, etc., then my response is good, fuck 'em. They should have never had those jobs in the first place. Middle-manning health insurance is a dirty business. Awesome. Just let the government decide what companies should and should not exist based on... what... "feelings"... Yeah, ok then. Let's not take a more practical approach to phasing them out or working with them to shift to other things or writing actually good laws/regulations that would keep them from exploiting people. That would be far too rational. Fuck the "bad" companies. Which ones would be next I wonder? Well.. we can't shut them all down. Oh I know. The government will just take them on instead and will justify it cause.. they're "bad".. Yeah.. And people like you wonder why some get all up in arms about socialism. |
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unless I'm missing something
Payback perhaps but yeah, that one wouldn't make much sense to me but we don't seem to understand how those people think that are used to doing whatever they want regardless of the right/wrongness of it. Off-Topic Prediction: Weinstein kills himself by the end of the year.
Think it would depend on the appeal. But then again he may realize it's a lost cause. I don't know enough about that sort of mindset to make any sort of prediction. |
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Right. You mean like all the coincidences in the "suicides" etc of people associated with Trump and certain banks? Yeah you're right. Nothing to see at all. Move along. |
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it should be a right
Based on what? I would just love to hear a good justification for that. |
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But all of these countries have some form of Government run Universal Healthcare and they're able to do it for way less.
Really? Ok. Well if you're going to throw out "far less", you have to compare apples to apples which no one ever does. The one country I did look into since it always comes up is Canada. It does not cover dental. It does not cover eyecare. And up until recently they had to pay a monthly fee but that's 100% put onto the companies now (i.e. not just their employees that they would pay for previously but also every citizen). There could be other fees that I never came across as well. Bernie wants to do all the things they don't do. As much as Canadians love their healthcare and would never give it up, they also recognize the flaws and issues with it. Long wait times for some things are one of them. But for other things, it's better. It can also depend on the region and so on and so forth. Things are never as "perfect" as the pro universal healthcare people claim and the other side cherry picks things as well. As for other countries, you have to look into each one. Not all of them cover everything like Bernie wants to do and those that might, have other issues or ways they handle it. So the blanket "well other countries do it soooooo", is just disingenuous at best as it's not giving the public all the information they should have in order to make an intelligent decision. Bottom line though, it will improve things for the lower end of people and it won't be as "top notch" for the upper end that pay for that premium. Assuming of course Bernie doesn't fold on allowing people to still get their own insurance which I think would go a long way to "selling" it. I personally think that upending a whole list of things for the "revolution" is just ludicrous when the same things could be achieved from well thought out incremental changes so that the impacts could be measured to ensure the end goals are achieved. But that would be too rational and logical I guess and we live in a time of "feelings". Edit: By the way. It's well known that a shit load of people are going to be put out of work by Bernie's plan. Can someone tell me what he's going to do with basically forcing companies to close down? Seems like no one cares that the government would end up doing that. An entire industry decimated it looks like to me. |
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DOJ, CIA, FBI, NSA have all been reporting to Trump for over 3 years now...you know that right?
Yeah.. but you know.. Deep State... Despite, again, having 3+ years to "drain the swamp"... That's gone well. Couldn't be just campaign rhetoric or incompetence in draining that swamp.. Gotta be that pesky deep state... always have to have some excuse cause the buck stops with everyone else and not with the stable genius. |
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WORLD WAR 3 fears have plagued the US's foreign policy in recent years. Recent years? Really? Fears of WW3 have gone up and down for my entire life (part of which included those nuclear war type drills of hiding under your desk back when the USSR was still a thing) and this is absolutely no different. IMO it won't happen when tension is high and everyone is being extra cautious. It will happen through some idiotic casual actions that will then escalate out of control very, very quickly. |
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democratic socialism
"Democratic socialism" is just a red herring to make it acceptable to those that don't know anything about it or socialism. The end goal is exactly the same thing. Doing away with capitalism etc and becoming entirely socialist. It takes very little research to see that's the case and the more radical side of Bernie's supporters don't exactly hide that. Why people think capitalism is so bad is beyond me. The country wouldn't be the economic power house it is without it. China. Russia. They wouldn't embrace it if it wasn't the way to grow their economies and "in theory at least", build a better more prosperous future for their people. There wouldn't be the money there that they now want to spend. It's just ludicrous. It's wall street that's one of the primary issue with it's strangle hold on how companies run themselves and the shit they do. It's the the lack of rules, regulations and the like that allows those at the head of those companies to abuse the system. But it's not capitalism itself. Capitalism is not the cause of the problems. But whatever. People need to blame something and those seeking power will use it if they can get away with it. None of them seem to actually give a shit about the future of the country. The left was all over Trump, Banon etc for wanting to "tear it all down" or whatever that phrase was... but they're willing to embrace Bernie's message. Same message. Just from different sides.. Turn a blind eye to the issues as long as it's "your guy". Don't look beyond your nose and play out the potential scenarios and ramifications.. Sounds familiar. Would an openly socialist Sanders presidency be the end of The Great American Experiment?
Gotta disagree with you guys. Socialism and Capitalism are opposite ends of a spectrum that every government is on, including America. Socialism without Capitalism, or Capitalism without Socialism are equally extreme. Socialism is just a term that refers to a system where the responsibility of producing and distributing services or things is shared by a group of people (tax payers). Public libraries, hospitals, NASA, the FDA, Public Schools, Highways, Emergency Responders are all low level socialist in that they are at least partially funded by the taxes we are all responsible for paying. Of course these government funded programs are also Capitalist in that private businesses are able to compete for government contracts. Own the best private business and you'll make the most money. I think you assumed I look at things as one or the other. No. The US is neither capitalistic or socialist. It's a balance of the two and "everyone" wants that. The only disagreement is how much of both. But that's a lot different than the core beliefs of the various socialists. The socialist end goal is the same, just different routes to get there. The real issue today is that the masses hear "socialist" and they think it means social programs and so turn a blind eye to anything else. The 'Socialist Democrats' just want to pull the country a little bit closer to Socialism on the Socialist ---- Capitalist spectrum.
Seriously dude? You really need to go do some research and listen to some of the more hardcore Bernie supporters. And maybe some history as well where the masses turned a blind eye to certain messages thinking.. oh no. that could never happen.. or ... they say X but they really mean Y. Trump supporters are willing to let him get away with fucking over the country and rule of law as long as he builds the wall, fights the left and the media etc etc etc. But they're passive for the most part. More talk than action. They're older and "lazy". But they believe in the country and at least support the idea of the constitution. Bernie's core supporters are young, energized, are active and they want "revolution" and that includes both sorts. They include all forms of socialism including communism. They are ready to push politicians hard to implement what they want. The people in the USSR did not wake up one day and decide to be communist. It was basically fighting amongst groups with different socialist ideal and the clamp down in the aftermath to hold power by the winner. The people of Germany were promised all sorts of things to make their lives better and make them proud of their country again and they turned a blind eye to the negative. Here's a couple samples of what some have said to me over the last week. If the framers could revolt against the corruption of their day then so to can the people of this day revolt against the corruption of their ruling class. To hell with the weak who seek solace in obedience to feckless masters. If the constitution is standing in the way of the things it claims that it stands for then it is time for it to be changed or negated. We do not today have to follow the rules set in place nearly three centuries ago by people who claimed they were creating equality while owning slaves and women as property. We can and should have rules for our time and our problems that recognize the full spectrum of humanity. It is clear to anyone aware and willing to acknowledge the reality before them that the rules are not working to equalize society for everyone but rather maximizing the benefit to some at the expense of others.. And that is what it's going to take for Bernie to beat Trump. There's no time to play footsie. I'm almost sure the reason you feel the way you do like other Bernie haters is because your candidate didn't cut the mustard. I bet you hate AOC as well. Well good, because we need to get people like you (Do-Nothing-Democrats) out of the way so we can at least get things actually done in this God awful country. I love how everyone likes to stick me in a box so they can just not argue a point. What's even funny about the one above is I had made a point of saying it's not Bernie but his supports and yet he still labeled me a Bernie hater. The delusion and fanaticism between Trump and Bernie supporters is exactly the same. But core Bernie supporters are different. They want to dismantle core aspects of the country. Just look at how the far left (which is where the Bernie supporters reside), cry out about "hate" speech or "fake news" and the like and demand the politicians and corporations do something about it. The spineless cowardly politicians show that Freedom of speech means nothing to them if it will get them votes. The corporations are so spineless and worried about bad press they bend over and do what the politicians and vocal minority (and the mindless mob that follows along) wants them to do and they censor people. God forbid they censor people in China though. Just our own people. Cause... well lets just ignore that. But yep. No need to be worried at all cause I'm sure the politicians will do the right thing. We see that every single day. Yep. |
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Andrew Yang was among my favorites. I liked the program he promised. Who should I vote for now?
Your second favorite. i.e You said your had favorites, plural. They all suck for one reason or another though. |
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Worst case scenario: California freelancers are limited to 35 submissions per employer per year. That is hardly "the end of freelance journalism" or an "apocalyptic event."
While I agree with you on the whole sensational aspect of the video and Techs use of it. This is a bad law etc. It's another example of law makers (either side) not understanding all the issues and doing a half ass job that will end up screwing people. I did contract for years so I know what it's like. You don't always have the freedom to NOT take work. More importantly, this makes it a pain in the ass for companies in other states and so they will simply not bother with CA freelancers. Hell, I had people not give me work because I didn't use the payment method they wanted to use or have some other tool or whatever they wanted me to use despite the fact I could do the work and give them the end result. Bottom line, there will be a negative impact unless they try and "fix" it again. How negative it will be, we have no way of knowing at this point so decrying the end of freelance journalism in CA is just ridiculous. |
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Given most of the posts on this page and the previous page, I guess any serious Trump impeachment discussion has ended and is now devolving into conspiracy talk, Trump worship and the like. Awesome. I thought those that worship Trump and conspiracy theories had their own derivative thread to do that in.
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Trump haters are o-so-predictable.
Are you once again making assumptions about me to suit your agenda? Go figure. |
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The impeachment... a distraction designed to distract from Biden and others like him.
Graham: Senate to Investigate Whistleblower, Bidens After Impeachment VoteSpeaking to Fox News' Maria Bartiromo yesterday, the senator said, "I want to understand how all this crap started," and claimed that Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr (R-NC) will call the "whistleblower" for questioning.
He said that investigations into the whistleblower and former Vice President Joseph R. Biden's dealings in Ukraine, two issues at the heart of the impeachment charges against Mr. Trump, will continue to be investigated by the Senate after the president's impeachment acquittal that is expected this week on charges of abuse of power and obstruction of Congress.
The impeachment stemmed from the whistleblower allegation that Mr. Trump pressured Ukraine, including withholding nearly $400 million in military aid, to investigate the Bidens and Ukraine meddling in the 2016 U.S. election.
"If the whistleblower is a former employee of [or] associate of Joe Biden, I think that would be important. If the whistleblower was working with people on Schiff's staff that wanted to take Trump down a year-and-a-half ago, I think that would be important. If the Schiff staff people helped write the complaint, that would be important."
 Oh good. More time taken away from doing their actual jobs. More money wasted. Sounds good to me. Keep it all going right up until the election. That should be fun. |
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Do you have a way past the paywall? Disabling JS doesn't work for that one. --------------- Found some other ones. So I don't see it. One of the articles I read, despite the message clearly being that he was entrapped, actually pointed out that it appeared all legal. So if it was legal, then in what way was he entrapped? He's an old guy. He has a ton of life experience. He's been around the block a few times. Even I know it's illegal to do that. And then when it came down to it he said he knew it was illegal to lie to them but did it anyway. He took personal responsibility for his actions. So what's the issue? If people want to bitch about the law and say it's too broad and gives them too much leeway and the like, then fine. Argue that. That's a valid point and seems correct. But then don't cry about law enforcement doing what they're permitted to do. It's the fault of the politicians for writing crap laws. Put the blame where it belongs. Cause crying about the FBI won't change a damn thing. Bitching about the law to your representatives might if enough do it. Although you can call it whatever you want, the most common word used to describe what happened to Flynn is "entrapment." I am curious, why would you want to argue about this now? I mean, think about it. These are events from 2016. The beginning of the hunt for the Russians under the bed. The article is from 2018. Today is 2020 and Flynn is likely to see the entire case against him thrown out. And in the four years, people directly involved in the Flynn interview and write-up - Strzok and McCabe - fired. In fair part for their handling of this exact case. <snip> You brought it up and made a statement that it was "reasonable" to assume it was entrapment. And you said the FBI "always" do it.. with a little wiggle room. Strzok and McCabe have no bearing on whether or not it was entrapment. That article says what I said. Doesn't appear to be anything illegal about it. They don't like it. Want to look at the FBI as bad boys cause that's what the cool kids all do these days. Ok. "Feelings" don't matter. "Commonsense terms" are immaterial... Just facts and the law matter and the facts so far seems to be that what they did was legal. Guess we'll just have to wait and see what the judge says though but from what I was looking at it seems to be that the laws in this area are far too broad and controversial in which case it's the fault of the law makers, not the FBI. If you want to call it entrapment in order to paint the FBI as part of the "deep state".. or "corrupt".. or "out to get Trump", then fine. Just say that you choose to view it all like that. But that doesn't actually make it entrapment from a legal standpoint. |
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Do you have a way past the paywall? Disabling JS doesn't work for that one. --------------- Found some other ones. So I don't see it. One of the articles I read, despite the message clearly being that he was entrapped, actually pointed out that it appeared all legal. So if it was legal, then in what way was he entrapped? He's an old guy. He has a ton of life experience. He's been around the block a few times. Even I know it's illegal to do that. And then when it came down to it he said he knew it was illegal to lie to them but did it anyway. He took personal responsibility for his actions. So what's the issue? If people want to bitch about the law and say it's too broad and gives them too much leeway and the like, then fine. Argue that. That's a valid point and seems correct. But then don't cry about law enforcement doing what they're permitted to do. It's the fault of the politicians for writing crap laws. Put the blame where it belongs. Cause crying about the FBI won't change a damn thing. Bitching about the law to your representatives might if enough do it. |
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