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Sure they can afford to scrap bad boards. Damn, it's the best thing for them to do. Initially.
Fuck the cost, think of the cost of their first deliveries not being on time against that, and cancelled orders.
Get the initial couple of dozen or so units out of the door ASAP, gain the kudos for that, then relax a bit and test chips once they have that milestone achieved.
IF they get 50 perfectly working rigs in customers hands (literally since they are collected), get some good feedback... the lion's share of orders are october delivery so they'll have more time. Then they can test and not waste components.
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That was a wafer. Good to see and al that...but not a chip nonetheless. Looking positive for a happy few pages here in the near future , it's already become useful again with a purpose  A picture is worth 500 pages of words Or 500 GH coming with Jupiter.:-) Looks that way. The day I see someone report that on a machine they just received I'll be really happy, it's not often that people can afford faith in a company in this game from what I've seen. I've always thought they were a cut above as far as professionalism was concerned and having an October delivery date was less stressful...but the guys who get the 1st rigs deserve rewards for sticking their necks out more than the rest of us. Seems to me to be the first truly reliably ASIC rig manufacturer. Gonna be busy aren't they? |
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That was a wafer. Good to see and al that...but not a chip nonetheless. Looking positive for a happy few pages here in the near future , it's already become useful again with a purpose A picture is worth 500 pages of words |
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It's a facebook competition |
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I keep seeing people mentioning the upcoming monarchs from BFL in with other companies adding to the increase...but I have to wonder who would trust them enough to (pre)order one ? I think people aren't so stupid as to ignore all the companies who have royally screwed customers this year (monarch may be an insider jest about them doing that?) ...so when KnC deliver on time and with better rigs than spec, wouldn't prudent buyers wait that few months for a gen 2 that may give them a chance to break even because it will at least arrive in good time? Who takes a risk when they can avoid it?
If this is even half true then a lot of this increase might be delayed until KnC gen 2 ..which is early 2014..
If I wasn't already waiting and was looking to buy a rig now, I'd see how KnC performed compare to the others ...and probably go with the one that was trustworthy with the additional bonus that gen 2 won't be the 1st attempt so should run smoother.
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Kinda odd too... Cancelling your orders, but trying to use your reseller id to get a freebee... lol Depends how many have used that link. Maybe 3 free rigs replaced them. Nice profit on $0 investment..or maybe shipping only (as someone is bound to point out ). |
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Same, with any wallet. Someone had it on facebook but got no reply
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Jesus Christ people. If there aren't any problems, do you have to invent them mentally just to make some up?
I'm awfully tired of all the "I think this, and I think that, I think they can't ship on time, I think they can't build them on time, I don't think their chips will work, I think they're going to be late, I think they're not going to ship until mid October" BS, regardless of how many times Sam says things are on schedule and there are no perceived delays.
Well here's one for you - Nobody gives a flying fuck about what problems you think they have, or when you think they are going to ship, because the vast majority of you obviously don't know shit from shinola. Apparently no one here has ever used something called a project planner. This is why they exist and keeping track of projects like this is what they are used for. And when there are no delays on critical path items, then guess what, you get to say things are on schedule. And unless you happen to be looking at their project plan, you don't know anything about anything having to do with KNC.
On October 1st you get to say they aren't going to ship in September and start calculating how late they're going to be, and not one second before.
If you're tired, go have a lie down. People think. It's allowed and this thread is to discuss those thoughts, if you don't like that and have to be such a fucking smartass maybe you need to consider the possibility that you are not always completely right and some of us have a lifetime of planning and manufacturing products behind us. I doubt that anyone has seen all plans they made proceed without a hiccup when manufacturing anything, never mind a company doing it for the 1st time. A competed board is a component..you don't count the fucking component parts of that board as individual components at this stage. Case, board, chip, fan, screws etc.. there sure as shit ain't millions there. So why say so unless the boards aren't manufactured yet? If that were the case...that's not great at this point in time. You learn nothing from not asking questions, you fall on your arse by believing all you hear...when large amounts of money are concerned it's logical to keep a healthy interest in facts not in random company statements which are bound to be optimistic. I've always believed KnC will be the one company that we can rely on, but this isn't all down to KnC they rely on others ...and that may delay them. That is something they'd be insane to admit at this point as technically they aren't behind schedule. |
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Millions of components arriving? Wasn't expecting that. I was expecting the number of rigs x the very few components they contain. Surely they ain't going to be assembling boards as opposed to them being delivered complete ?
Believe ...there's my key word. I know people who believe in alsorts of crazy shit like gods and stuff. I prefer something more concrete really.
I'm starting to thing they have doubts over Sept. but know they can't say so because they'll be hit with loads of refund requests because people are holding them to a few days deadline and remembering the BS that other companies gave customers which has rightly made everyone very suspicious.
I wonder how many would fold and ask for a refund if nothing arrives from Sweden by end Sept? Would a few days be enough to tip the balance and trigger that?
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Hearsay. I doubt they told him that they would be flown over "in a couple of weeks". They maybe told him that they are in the final stages of production and are flown over here asap... Next couple of weeks means a least 2 weeks because 1 week fits not in a couple of week
So if we are the 16/09, the chips will go away from Taiwan, the 29/09
That is not true. A couple means more than one week upwards. Then they need to fly over the world to come to sweden: 5 days How the heck did you figure that it takes 5 days from taiwan to sweden? it's a little less than 5200 miles from taipei to stockholm. That's approx 11 hours flight. Take into account the time to load/unload, transportation to the plane/to the assembly and that it is a cargo plane with around 537mph I would estimate a maximum of 30 hours for the whole procedure. To be assembled: 5 days Why 5 days? A professional assembling unit (not automated) can do more than 600 chips/boards per day. I think they will use an automated one, so it should be more than 1200 boards per day. That's 300 Jupiters per day. And that is the worst case scenario in my opinion. And shipped: 3-5 days Where do you live? To southern Germany it should take 4-5 days, if you live further away it takes a lot longer. It's not automated assembly, they have stated that ..I thought it might be too. AFAIK, tomorrow is in the next two weeks, so are all the days until you get to that two weeks...which didn't begin today if that convo was true and wasn't today. If you hit a block mining solo nowadays the flying pigs deliver the bitcoins and your bravery medal  |
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KNC declaration that chips will be produced about 27 september
uhh, source? here you go IN the next couple of weeks...that does not mean 14 days, it means up to 14 days. Could be tommorrow, or 5 days. Of the 14 options available you choose the least positive one..shock horror. A watched pot is slow to boil. |
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For those who keep saying that they have already missed their ship date I present a question;
If even 1 Jupiter ships before the end of September, then they have kept their word. would this not be a success? Have the bets that have been placed taken this into account rulewise?
I don't even think it would take that. Since KnC is hosting for purchasers, all they need to do is have one in the rack on the pool hashing. I doubt that. Bets I have seen have the conditions of 5 reputable people reporting delivery, and just because something starts hashing from KnC it doesn't follow it's a KnC rig doing so..not that I think they would pull a shady trick like that lol |
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The first sign of a working rig will be the KnC pool I'd imagine? Not a complete rig ready to ship, but the initial test when they get chips? Seems to me they'd run the first one as soon as they have it put together and the logical thing would be to use their own pool, not for earning BTC but to test the whole system?
I'm not in there 'cos I'm not hosted but is anyone else keeping an eye out for signs of life ?
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...
Now there's several good reasons why the difficulty will -not- get to 7 billion with the price of bitcoin at $125. There's ROI to think about, the cost of hardware must be amortized in, which means the difficulty is actually very likely to level off at more around 2 billion or less.
...
You're ignoring that: 1. Miners pre-order their gear months in advance, so the gear ordered today is *locked in* -- it will mine even if it makes pennies over power cost. 2. People are bad at math -- they will continue to come up with "but bitcoin will be worth moar" arguments & mine at a loss. 3. Even when people are given a chance at a refund (the case with KNC?), they don't use it -- even when all evidence tells them to do so. Some yet unnamed gambler's fallacy, i guess. 4. People bought & are still buying USB miners -- case in point. So you think it's better to buy BTC than mine them and end up with the same number of BTC or slightly less? I assume that's the argument you make in point 2? Then you make the point that people are still buying USB miners, which goes and demonstrates that your own logic is poor and possibly your maths too since if people will pay for a USB miner don't you think that Jupiter might just sell too? Assuming you don't use it to mine something else that is. Selling a Jupiter after it's broken even would beat buying BTC by any maths ..and if a gamble on the price of BTC was the prime motivation then trading with some leverage would make more sense than simply buying and selling them with the fees and faffing about that can entail. There's another option some people with a little sense may have planned too. Buy 2 rigs, instantly sell one and keep the other(s)...I'd bet that would work out well for day 1 people. Best of all probably. That's also what I'd do instead of cancelling. I wasn't aware that the chance of a refund from KnC had expired, and I know they aren't late on delivery yet...so point 3 is bollocks too, why would anyone get a refund when they only just ordered and so far nothing is awry...and they still have that safety margin to use? People looked at the possibilities and decided to order a rig, until their minds are changed by something more concrete than trolls "evidence" they have no reason to jump ship. None of us know for sure what's going to happen in the next six months, it's all best guess based on past performance and promises from various manufacturers. |
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Amusing how a delivery date of Nov 1st seems to be considered a fail, a day late...sure as shit beats a year late Mid Oct deliveries are looking likely though. Within two weeks doesn't mean after two weeks either...could be next or even this week. Remember ..under promise, over deliver? |
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I heard some stuff about Intel releasing 14nm tech a while back and if things keep on as they have done lately I'd not bet against them coming to a rig near you soon... Bitcoin market cap: ~1.5 Billion USD Intel market cap: ~110 Billion USD I think Bitcoin still has a long way to go to become interesting for the likes of Intel. And should that day ever come their 14nm tech is going to be the least of my worries the $17 million that HashFast and Cointerra have (supposedly) made in pre-orders isn't nothing. Intel makes lots of chips, not just desktop CPUs but lots of ASICs as well. Back when SSDs were starting to get popular Intel came out with their own, and it performed way better then anything else on the market - not because the flash memory was any better, but because the ASIC they used to interface the flash to SATA was so much better. Other drives were fast for the most part, but would randomly lag under typical desktop usage (where tons of little files, like dlls and registry keys need to be read and written too constantly) Turns out, Intel looked at the available controllers, decided they all sucked, and just made their own. Now that SSD controllers are a lot better, Intel doesn't make them any more. Of course, I doubt that little asic was made at their smallest process node. And from what I understand development costs go up significantly the smaller you go. However my guess is that for Intel those costs might not be as high, since they'll likely have all the software, test equipment, and so on available right away. And, of course, they have their own fabs. Which means that, not only do they not need to deal with third party companies to interface with the fabs, as most bitcoin ASIC people have had to do, access to things like spots on multi-project wafers should be easy to get, even on short notice. It would depend on what kind of resources they want to spend on it - but given the time sensitive nature Intel could do things like kick existing slots off of wafer runs to get test chips and so on. Difference being, SSDs were upcoming consumer grade hardware, while specialized Bitcoin mining rigs are still more of a fringe phenomena in a highly speculative market. It was definitely in Intel's interest to push / improve the PC market, while Bitcoin ASICs might not fit as well in their agenda. However the market cap argument doesn't hold up entirely, I'll give you that. Either way, I doubt that Intel will enter the mining rig market before Bitcoin's mainstream adoption significantly improves. It's an interesting thought though. Missed the point there. I didn't think Intel were interested in ASICs, but ASIC peeps will definitely be interested in 14nm and sooner rather than later they'll appear....and off we'll all go again. Also, it's happened before that guys from these huge corporations involved in the ASIC development have jumped ship into mining manufacturing companies. If and when this happens and 14nm is the new kid in town...up goes that network hashrate again in a big way. |
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no no  they should sell the chips and the circuit and every single thing you might need to build it , but give you just a guide to help you do it In the end the thing will work but you will have a screw in your hand going 'I think this was extra' and throw it away They already said they will sell the modules as upgrades. That's got to better than just chips. I heard some stuff about Intel releasing 14nm tech a while back and if things keep on as they have done lately I'd not bet against them coming to a rig near you soon...who knows what that will mean for us, it would be nice if we just needed new modules and a DIY upgrade was possible. Be awful quick to get them out and running compared to a whole new machine if that were the case. |
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Did anyone made the joke about 'swedish' asic miners comes in parts and you have to build them yourself because it is 'cheaper' that way?
Yes there where jokes about that  There are people dreaming about that. |
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