Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[btc_uzr]

This reseller stuff has a bad taste for me anyway.

Maybe it's just my understanding of a 'reseller' which does not fit at all to this concept...or maybe KNC's reseller concept is as weird as I perceive it (advertisement front line infantry almost for free) ?

It encourages people to convince (or even mislead and lie to) other people with the purpose of enforcing sales for KNC.
And all this in hope of the slightly chance that those clicking the reseller links will bookmark the reseller link and then even will make use of it when finally placing their order (instead of opening a browser and typing www.kncminer.com).

And even if 100's do so...how can you verify it and make sure KNC sticks to their promise and gives you all your devices earned ??
At least I'm not aware of any transparency regarding this at all and in case you are, I'd like you to share it.

I'm curios how many will get a free device at the end.

[1714140814]

1714140814

[1714140814]

1714140814

[1714140814]

1714140814

[1714140814]

1714140814

[crumbs]

This reseller stuff has a bad taste for me anyway.

Maybe it's just my understanding of a 'reseller' which does not fit at all to this concept...or maybe KNC's reseller concept is as weird as I perceive it (advertisement front line infantry almost for free) ?

It encourages people to convince (or even mislead and lie to) other people with the purpose of enforcing sales for KNC.
...

No different from hiring an ad agency or paying a spokesperson to endorse your product
Business is business.

[r1senfa17h]

I know overclocking has been discussed numerous times in this thread, but has anyone considered underclocking once it becomes prohibitively more expensive than electric costs? I could be wrong, but it seems that most chips are much more energy efficient at lower clock-rates. If that holds true for KnC's chips, then it would make sense to sacrifice hashing speed at the end of the miner's useful life.

For example, each chip may use 1.6w per GH/s at full-throttle (hopefully less). My electricity costs $0.13/KWh (USA - Michigan). Each GH/s costs me ~$0.15 per month in this scenario. Once the difficulty gets to the point where each GH/s is mining less than ~$0.15 worth of BTC/month (diff = ~12.5B), one could underclock by 50% and possibly achieve 0.8W/GH/s. At that efficiency, one would remain profitable until difficulty reached ~25B.

Of course, we're only talking a few more mBTC, but I hope to run my miner as long as possible!

[Paladin69]

“Currently we’re looking at 450 Th/sec that we expect to enter the network between September and the end of October,” Cole predicts. That will mean substantially increased difficulty as more miners come onstream.

Sam Cole KnC

http://www.coindesk.com/a-look-inside-kncminer/

That was back when they thought their products were 400GH.  So now that they might be 500GH?  Make it closer to 600TH I think?

[timmmers]

If anyone wants Day 1 Jupiters (3) we just cancelled our order and the refund is processing.  Keep an eye out on the https://www.kncminer.com/?resellerid=113 product page for these.
FYI.

https://www.kncminer.com/?resellerid=113

Ok, now your post makes sense

Kinda odd too...  Cancelling your orders, but trying to use your reseller id to get a freebee... lol

Depends how many have used that link. Maybe 3 free rigs replaced them. Nice profit on $0 investment..or maybe shipping only (as someone is bound to point out ).

[xyzzy099]

“Currently we’re looking at 450 Th/sec that we expect to enter the network between September and the end of October,” Cole predicts. That will mean substantially increased difficulty as more miners come onstream.

Sam Cole KnC

http://www.coindesk.com/a-look-inside-kncminer/

That was back when they thought their products were 400GH.  So now that they might be 500GH?  Make it closer to 600TH I think?

If they had sold 450 TH/s of 400GH/s miners that then turn out to be 600GH/s miners, that make the total ~675TH/s - a long way from 2PH/s still.

[donch]

“Currently we’re looking at 450 Th/sec that we expect to enter the network between September and the end of October,” Cole predicts. That will mean substantially increased difficulty as more miners come onstream.

Sam Cole KnC

http://www.coindesk.com/a-look-inside-kncminer/

That was back when they thought their products were 400GH.  So now that they might be 500GH?  Make it closer to 600TH I think?

If they had sold 450 TH/s of 400GH/s miners that then turn out to be 600GH/s miners, that make the total ~675TH/s - a long way from 2PH/s still.

That article was written back in June. I imagine their sales are higher now, especially after all the BFL fails...

[btc_uzr]

This reseller stuff has a bad taste for me anyway.

Maybe it's just my understanding of a 'reseller' which does not fit at all to this concept...or maybe KNC's reseller concept is as weird as I perceive it (advertisement front line infantry almost for free) ?

It encourages people to convince (or even mislead and lie to) other people with the purpose of enforcing sales for KNC.
...

No different from hiring an ad agency or paying a spokesperson to endorse your product
Business is business.

At least in one point: you have to spend money for "an ad agency or a spokesperson" nevertheless it pays out for you.

This reseller program does not take into account those sales not using the reseller link when actually placing orders - so those are for free.
Further more it has the nice side effect that you do not need to pay anything at all for unsuccessful advertisement or speech which influences a buyers decision at the end - another freebee.

Beside of those sales provided you can't map to a reseller ID, how can one know how much orders have actually been placed through his reseller link ?
Honestly I do not expect KNC to betray their customers providing sales through reseller ID. I'm just wondering whether I got everything right and if there's some kind of transparency.

[btc_uzr]

“Currently we’re looking at 450 Th/sec that we expect to enter the network between September and the end of October,” Cole predicts. That will mean substantially increased difficulty as more miners come onstream.

Sam Cole KnC

http://www.coindesk.com/a-look-inside-kncminer/

That was back when they thought their products were 400GH.  So now that they might be 500GH?  Make it closer to 600TH I think?

If they had sold 450 TH/s of 400GH/s miners that then turn out to be 600GH/s miners, that make the total ~675TH/s - a long way from 2PH/s still.

That article was written back in June. I imagine their sales are higher now, especially after all the BFL fails...

Might be possible that this numbers is only the hashrate of the first 890 orders..as it would result in 450TH/s divided by 0,4 TH/s = 1125 Jupiters

*edit:
..and 890 is only day1+day2 as far as I know...?

[crumbs]

This reseller stuff has a bad taste for me anyway.

Maybe it's just my understanding of a 'reseller' which does not fit at all to this concept...or maybe KNC's reseller concept is as weird as I perceive it (advertisement front line infantry almost for free) ?

It encourages people to convince (or even mislead and lie to) other people with the purpose of enforcing sales for KNC.
...

No different from hiring an ad agency or paying a spokesperson to endorse your product
Business is business.

At least in one point: you have to spend money for "an ad agency or a spokesperson" nevertheless it pays out for you.

This reseller program does not take into account those sales not using the reseller link when actually placing orders - so those are for free.
Further more it has the nice side effect that you do not need to pay anything at all for unsuccessful advertisement or speech which influences a buyers decision at the end - another freebee.

Result-based advertisement?  Kind'a like pay-per-click?

Beside of those sales provided you can't map to a reseller ID, how can one know how much orders have actually been placed through his reseller link ?
Honestly I do not expect KNC to betray their customers providing sales through reseller ID. I'm just wondering whether I got everything right and if there's some kind of transparency.

I'm sure if the buyer provides the reseller link when ordering, the reseller is credited -- why would the company risk their rep when link use could be easily verified (ask your friend to use your link, for instance)?  People are sending coin half way around the world, to people they aren't even sure exist, and you worry about reseller credits?

[btc_uzr]

I don't worry as I do not have a reseller ID 
I'm wondering about the transparency. And yes in my eyes KNC is trustworthy.

[FUKT]

I highly doubt anyone is canceling.


It is sad that the nice folks here (since they are nice folks) keep trying to make this a positive thread yet become an unwitting partner in the trolling tango of FUD


Someone over at the KNC forum post a good explanation of this farce in the 'trust no one' post


 

True, people were speculating earlier on the difficulty going up 100,200 and 400% in a small period  due to KNC shipping. I think the only people who will be cancelling are the cointerra, hashfast etc etc customers

[Bitcoinorama]

I highly doubt anyone is canceling.


It is sad that the nice folks here (since they are nice folks) keep trying to make this a positive thread yet become an unwitting partner in the trolling tango of FUD


Someone over at the KNC forum post a good explanation of this farce in the 'trust no one' post


 

True, people were speculating earlier on the difficulty going up 100,200 and 400% in a small period  due to KNC shipping. I think the only people who will be cancelling are the cointerra, hashfast etc etc customers

Personally the only people I see kicking up a fuss are actual known customers urging people to cancel, one name beginning with 'X' springs to mind, using the genesis block as a reason to support their argument, whilst not actually requesting a refund themselves. The rest actually believe the Genesis Block is an accurate portrayal which unfortunately just underlines the limited level of understanding of a lot of people on this forum, through choice mind. I mean they could actually easily understand there will be no exponential increase either month on month, or at any point. It will be a huge jump in the next few weeks, followed by a levelling off, the intro to 28nm, followed by little blips in futures that won't remotely resemble anything like this first initial jump. The current hashrate should; for all intents and purposes be a lot worse than now, but certain other companies got corrupt and failed to deliver, screwing the community. I understand many feel burnt, but so far KnC have been exemplary (that means very good).

[timmmers]

I keep seeing people mentioning the upcoming monarchs from BFL in with other companies adding to the increase...but I have to wonder who would trust them enough to (pre)order one ? I think people aren't so stupid as to ignore all the companies who have royally screwed customers this year (monarch may be an insider jest about them doing that?) ...so when KnC deliver on time and with better rigs than spec, wouldn't prudent buyers wait that few months for a gen 2 that may give them a chance to break even because it will at least arrive in good time? Who takes a risk when they can avoid it?

If this is even half true then a lot of this increase might be delayed until KnC gen 2 ..which is early 2014..
If I wasn't already waiting and was looking to buy a rig now, I'd see how KnC performed compare to the others ...and probably go with the one that was trustworthy with the additional bonus that gen 2 won't be the 1st attempt so should run smoother.

[joae1975]

I keep seeing people mentioning the upcoming monarchs from BFL in with other companies adding to the increase...but I have to wonder who would trust them enough to (pre)order one ? I think people aren't so stupid as to ignore all the companies who have royally screwed customers this year (monarch may be an insider jest about them doing that?) ...so when KnC deliver on time and with better rigs than spec, wouldn't prudent buyers wait that few months for a gen 2 that may give them a chance to break even because it will at least arrive in good time? Who takes a risk when they can avoid it?

If this is even half true then a lot of this increase might be delayed until KnC gen 2 ..which is early 2014..
If I wasn't already waiting and was looking to buy a rig now, I'd see how KnC performed compare to the others ...and probably go with the one that was trustworthy with the additional bonus that gen 2 won't be the 1st attempt so should run smoother.

Just speculation but KNC gen 2 will be the same as gen 1.  Maybe they'll add a logo sticker in with the package.  That and they're not going to overclock future Jupiter orders. I have a feeling they're doing that just to reward early adopters/customers.

[nightengale]

That and they're not going to overclock future Jupiter orders. I have a feeling they're doing that just to reward early adopters/customers.

Has there been definitive confirmation of this?

[Vedran Yoweri]

I highly doubt anyone is canceling.


It is sad that the nice folks here (since they are nice folks) keep trying to make this a positive thread yet become an unwitting partner in the trolling tango of FUD


Someone over at the KNC forum post a good explanation of this farce in the 'trust no one' post


 

True, people were speculating earlier on the difficulty going up 100,200 and 400% in a small period  due to KNC shipping. I think the only people who will be cancelling are the cointerra, hashfast etc etc customers

Personally the only people I see kicking up a fuss are actual known customers urging people to cancel, one name beginning with 'X' springs to mind, using the genesis block as a reason to support their argument, whilst not actually requesting a refund themselves. The rest actually believe the Genesis Block is an accurate portrayal which unfortunately just underlines the limited level of understanding of a lot of people on this forum, through choice mind. I mean they could actually easily understand there will be no exponential increase either month on month, or at any point. It will be a huge jump in the next few weeks, followed by a levelling off, the intro to 28nm, followed by little blips in futures that won't remotely resemble anything like this first initial jump. The current hashrate should; for all intents and purposes be a lot worse than now, but certain other companies got corrupt and failed to deliver, screwing the community. I understand many feel burnt, but so far KnC have been exemplary (that means very good).

They could become legendary if they will also "under promise, over deliver" on the shipping date.

[ASIC-K]

That and they're not going to overclock future Jupiter orders. I have a feeling they're doing that just to reward early adopters/customers.

Has there been definitive confirmation of this?

ahhh people take everything so literally!! if the chips run at 500ghs, then why would november deliveries be any different?!!? use your heads people....

[Biomech]

I keep seeing people mentioning the upcoming monarchs from BFL in with other companies adding to the increase...but I have to wonder who would trust them enough to (pre)order one ? I think people aren't so stupid as to ignore all the companies who have royally screwed customers this year (monarch may be an insider jest about them doing that?) ...so when KnC deliver on time and with better rigs than spec, wouldn't prudent buyers wait that few months for a gen 2 that may give them a chance to break even because it will at least arrive in good time? Who takes a risk when they can avoid it?

If this is even half true then a lot of this increase might be delayed until KnC gen 2 ..which is early 2014..
If I wasn't already waiting and was looking to buy a rig now, I'd see how KnC performed compare to the others ...and probably go with the one that was trustworthy with the additional bonus that gen 2 won't be the 1st attempt so should run smoother.

Just speculation but KNC gen 2 will be the same as gen 1.  Maybe they'll add a logo sticker in with the package.  That and they're not going to overclock future Jupiter orders. I have a feeling they're doing that just to reward early adopters/customers.

I doubt it. Gen 1 is a rush job. While a talented team can do a pretty damn good job in a short time, there is always more that can be done for optimization. I would suspect that the gen 1 chip has a LOT of redundancy that could be either put to use for more hashpower or straight up eliminated for the sake of power consumption with a bit of time to redesign. The smaller die size doesn't mean that it's fully optimized. In fact, that smaller die size gives you a lot more room to fudge, which seems to fit in with their entire philosophy to date.

That being said, discounting the big rush right now, I would imagine they were working both designs in parallel to be ready for gen 2 quickly. I would guess that their first chip is a rough draft with a lot of room for improvement. There's an old truism that goes like this:

Q. When is an engineering project finished?
A1. Never
A2. When marketing says it is!

[dwdoc]

use your heads people....

Why start now?