Again you didn't actually answer the valuation/risk question with any of the numbers that investors care about.  I'm not trying to give you a hard time. Believe me I'll be in line to sign up for your service on opening day.  This isn't me being a customer, this is me as a potential investor.


Refusing, repeatedly, to be specific about your $12mil of the $15mil valuation, and what form that asset (capital) takes (bank loans? stocks, cash, etc..) is not a little detail.  Refusing to be specific about exactly how much capital has been raised and dedicated to this project, pre-IPO, is not a little detail man.  It's a huge factor used by potential investors to gauge risk vs reward.  You're offering 20% of the company for 3mil, but investors want to know precisely how much of the company that capital is paying for (is that 3mil 75% of initially risked assets?).  


25% roi is more than double your prospectus' two year projection.  How long before you reach these projected numbers?  Five years?  I'm not saying that's a bad return if we were dealing with fiat, but this is a whole new game here.  One year is a lifetime in this space, and you don't project any returns at all in that time frame.  My biggest hang up with your offer is your valuation, but THIS is probably the biggest hang up for most other investors.

Here's what happens in the coming year:  Your tranches sell out at .15, the value of Bitcoin appreciates 50%, your stock value plummets as a result since the units are now massively overvalued.  It doesn't matter if the appreciation takes weeks or months, the depreciation of your stock value will happen in lock step with the appreciation of BTC (dividends are the only way to mitigate this).  Your initial investors are now screwed in every sense of the word (unless you split and keep splitting).  Mining companies mitigate that risk by literally printing the money that their offering is denominated in (BTC, plus it's very easy for investors to project a return).  Gambling sites mitigate that risk by offering very valuable, regularly reliable, dividends.  You're competing against both of those models for investments from people who understand just how plausible this scenario is.

Supporting you appears to be exceptionally risky because the financial reward is non existent in any time frame that matters (on top of the fact that you're already (probably) way overvalued).  Your offer is really only a 'good deal' for investors who believe the price of BTC will fall over the coming years.  (Ironically, your company will be helping to make sure that that doesn't happen).

I don't get that feeling.  It really wouldn't matter to me even if they did start offering trash.

Yes, the big question.  Specifically how much of their own resources?  Hardware manufacturers and gambling sites might seem dodgy but they've proven themselves trustworthy(ish), and extremely valuable.

 

Bitpay was angeled $500,000 (so was Coinsetter and Paymium) then easily raised another 2mil from VC insiders.  Their value was abundantly obvious, and the buy in was a pretty sweet deal for the insiders who landed the deals (well.. gg paymium).  The opposite of that is true here.  The utility of the product is obvious, but the value isn't, and the buy-in is absurd.

I understand what Crypto Finance could be, but right now it's an overpriced idea.

I recommend doing something original, or it'll just be yet another crapcoin.  Even then....

Try to integrate real world value.  Whatever opinion you have of cunningham chains primecoin has proven that demonstrable scientific utility will spur adoption and popularity more than anything else you could possibly do to a coin.

I believe you.


Hogwash.  We're talking about immediate risk and future value.  Not just future value.

Who would put up 3mil of a 15mil valuation without seeing anything that comes close to 12mil from the other parties?  Crypto Financial is offering a great idea, a valuable idea, a valuable service.  I want it to succeed.  I even trust you, and them, when you both say that they have the team to pull it off.  But if it's as I suspect and the 3mil is close to 75+% of risked assets, I want more than 20% of the company.  If 3mil was 50% of risked assets (6mil valuation), I'd still need more than 20%.  Unless I was buying a bond.  

Let's forget about the dodgy valuation for now, and look at some other reasons why this offer is just not attractive:

- Overpaying for projected growth.  The cost of each share is overpriced for the first two years of projected earnings IMO, and you have to wait a YEAR before you even start to see it (assuming accurate break even projection).  The obvious conclusion:
- This offer is not competitive in any way.  I believe in supporting crypto currency related ventures, but I can't afford to support them for free.  You know what I'm going to ask, but here it is anyways: Why would I even consider CFIG?  Throw a dart at a list of offerings and you'll hit one with history and profitability.  Not only is it not competitive in any way, any projected ROI or p/e ratio would just be a gamble (longshot imo).  I'd rate the possibility of ROI down at the bottom of the list... just above Kenilworth.  Why?  Because it could take this company 10 years to ever reach $15mil valuation and they're asking for that up front.

You're dodging the questions regarding your valuation, and your IPO isn't competitive at all in the current market.  Your prospectus lists $10mil in assets, but all you've shown us in real assets couldn't possibly add up to more than $100,000.  Where does that $10mil number come from?  

-Is it just the net worth of the individuals involved that could potentially be used for future liquidity?  If so then why aren't they taking the risk and investing in this startup now with their own capital?

-Is it capital that has been raised and dedicated to this project?  Specifically how much capital has been raised for this project (not including the Havelock IPO)?

-Is it a projected future value of the company that you're counting as a current 'asset'?  Really?

Their valuation seems reasonable(ish), but I have nothing to base a p/e ratio on.  It's a gamble.  I expect one of two things will occur when they announce their first div.  1 - They'll split because the buy in isn't enticing, or 2 - The price will dive.  There is a third option (the value will increase), but for this to happen I believe the first div would have to be really damned good.

Havelock how could we trust you on this?  The valuation is ridiculous.  Do you vouch for the valuation?

@Crypto nothing you've shown me indicates that this is a profit sharing endeavor everything currently points to greedy company overvaluation and risk externalization that will almost certainly result in a loss for the sucker investor.  Why didn't you just come to the community with the real valuation and offer a fixed interest bond?  (Too risky perhaps?) At least then you wouldn't have to dodge the valuation question like Bush dodging shoes.

I hope you can prove me wrong.

They're waiting till Monday or so 

Turns out the day is delayed to Monday or so 

$50 usd a share for access to only 10% of the profit and no div history at all.  Their first div better be fucking spectacular or this one's gonna get dumped down to .0001 instantly.

I've had a chance to read through the more detailed prospectus (pdf warning https://www.havelockinvestments.com/reportdownload.php?id=21).  Please clarify some things for me.

Section 9: Startup Expenses and Capitalization  
You list 3 items as assets that equal $11.5mil ($10mil bonds/securities, 3mil in cash).  You're saying here that you have raised $11.5 million (USD?) already for this project?  If you have that much secured, and your estimated expenses are $1.42mil, I don't understand why you need $3mil from us.

Lets talk about the $10million listed as an asset.  What is it, where does it come from?  Is it just the net worth of the individuals involved that could potentially be used for future liquidity?  Is it capital that has been raised and dedicated to this project?  Is it a projected future value of the company that you're counting as a current 'asset'?

The Summary following the expenses list confuses things for me even more.  It concludes that you need $1.42mil for first year expenses, and you believe you need another $1.5mil in liquidity.  Why not just liquidate from the $10mil instead of asking the community?  

It still sounds like you're trying to pass off nearly all of the first two year risk onto the community, and only offering 20% in return.  Actually it sounds worse than that.  It sounds like you're asking for a $3million, TWO year long (if you can pull off your targeted 1 year break even), interest free loan from the community.  

Lets do some dividend projections based on your two year plan estimates.  Lets assume you hit your first year break even.  I buy into your offer now, wait a year, and see zero return.  But now you're profitable, it's the start of the second year and you have no debt.  Your estimate projects a total 2nd year gross profit of $1,691,600.  80% of that goes to... well I'm not sure who because you won't tell us, and I'm not sure why they're getting 80% because you won't tell us that either, but hey there's still 20% on the table for the Bitcoin suckers community that bought into your outrageous nonsense offering. 20% = $338,320 (or $28,193 per month).  Great now lets divide that by 200,000 shares (your IPO) = $1.69 in dividends per share total for the entire second year (that's $0.14 per share per month).  

I spend .15B (~$15 usd) right now, then wait a year to start receiving .93% per month.  Of course all of that assumes you make it to profitability on time...


Full disclosure:  I'm a complete amateur, please feel free to tell me I'm wrong, then show me how I'm wrong.  Tell me how your IPO could ever be a good deal for an investor.

Thanks for the feedback, but so far you seem unwilling to give basic, specific, details about identities / location / exact amounts of previously raised capital / and the assets you bring to the table that you believe are CURRENTLY worth $12,000,000.  This is information that should be public record already (or at least will be at launch).

You might get some buyers (idiots) for your IPO based on the amount of information you've provided, but everyone else will stay well away from this one.  I'm sorry if there's a communication barrier, I'll try to ask for exactly what is needed from you in order to win the skeptics over to your side.

Please explain your valuation
You want $3 million dollars.  You are offering 20% for that $3mil.  That means you have something worth 12 million dollars (the other 80%).  What is that thing(s)?  Do you have assets currently worth $12million, or are you hoping this project will eventually become a $15million dollar business?

Capital raised so far
Specifically how much capital have you raised so far from other investors?  Your previous response to this question ("We have put in place enough assets on paper to secure a license.") is not sufficient.

Principals
Who are they?  We don't need an employee roster, but we will need a CEO, CFO, and the entire board of directors.

The office
Where is it? Again, this should already be public knowledge.

You're asking very skeptical people for three million dollars.  If you can't or won't provide answers to basic questions about your offering then your IPO will hit a brick wall on monday.  Sure there are idiots who will give a few coins, but can you reasonably expect people with serious money (people who are already turning huge profits elsewhere on proven offerings) to buy into you?

I understand that you want community involvement in your project.  And I'm sure the community wants to give you lots of money.  The problem is you haven't proven you're worth taking a chance on.  You actually haven't proven, or really provided, anything of substance at all.  You haven't shown us something worth even $15 dollars, and you're asking for $3 million.

Sorry to say that I'm not anywhere near Panama, I'm just asking for very specific detail ("public" is the key word in IPO).  You are asking for $3mil hehe.  

How much money, exactly, has been raised so far, and what percentage do those shareholders get?

Also, do you plan to service walk-in clients or will the business be 100% through the internet?  Sorry if you've answered this already I may have missed it.

Also, what month are you targeting for launch?

Where did the money for these things come from?  Where is your office located?

I wish the XPMs mined could be 'bought' with the reinvestment fund @ current market and held by Ciphermine for a couple months.  I expect significant XPM value appreciation.  Dumping them now feels like an overall loss for everyone.

Edit:
Also available this month http://alydian.co/ (got $350k layin around Kate?  )

It's still not clear where the other $10-12million in your valuation is coming from.  You want $3 million from us to rent an office, pay for employees, and provide liquidity at banks around the world.  I understand that.  So, how do you get from that $3million to a $15million valuation on your company?  Where's the other 12?  What do you have that's worth $12,000,000?

What assets and from whom?  From the details you've given out so far it sounds like you're trying to build your $15,000,000 idea with only $3,000,000 raised from the Bitcoin community, and are only offering them a 20% stake.  Am I wrong?  If I am then please tell me specifically what assets Crypto Financial controls that are realistically valued at 10-12 million dollars.


If you succeed (I hope you do) then please consider doing business with non-traditional U.S. banking institutions like the Internet Credit Union (https://iafcu.org/).

I don't understand the draw for this scam.  You're offering to get paid for a service (buying stocks on havelock) that anyone can do for free (sign up themselves at havelock and buy themselves some stock there).

Even IF you don't just outright steal the whole amount of BTC that people send you, you're trying to get paid for something everyone can do for free.

I know, I'm just teasing you man.  I guess it doesn't really come off as teasing now that I re-read it.  Sorry .

Edit: it's back up.  realsolid = pro

usahero gets banned, site gets DDosD, coincidence?