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1661  Other / Meta / Re: "I put you on ignore." on: October 03, 2012, 03:18:53 AM
Can these posts be automatically deleted considering a page of "I put you on ignore." isn't notable or relevant content?


Coming from Atlas, I don't think this complaint is really about "I put you on ignore" diluting relevant content.   Atlas has an extensive history of creating irrelevant threads and leading off-topic tangents in other peoples' threads.  

I suspect that the real reason Atlas has made this request is because he's disheartened that so many people are ignoring him, and wants to feel like he can still influence the people who are ignoring him.  

I agree that posts which have no other content than declaring "I'm ignoring you" are a waste of space on this forum.  People should only post relevant comments/information in threads, and if its irrelevant to the topic at hand, moderators should move or remove it.  However, I don't think "you're ignored" posts need a special moderation policy - irrelevant is irrelevant.

In some threads, the only content is "I put you on ignore".
1662  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 02, 2012, 05:56:25 PM
I've seen no vast coverage of this turn of events that should be relevant for the dollar, what do you guys think about it?

Dollar no longer primary oil currency as China begins to sell oil using Yuan

FOREX.  Look it up.  The currency of settlement for oil purchases is unimportant.

Can you explain this as if I was a five-year old?

Say that you could only trade oil for dollars.  If an oil-buyer didn't have dollars, they'd have to buy some, using whatever they do have, to use to buy oil.  If an oil-seller doesn't want to hold dollars, they'll have to sell the dollars they get from the sale in order to get whatever it is that they do want.

So, if the buyer can get dollars just before the purchase, and the seller can get rid of them just after the purchase, where could a net demand for dollars possibly come from?  It can only come from the desire to hold dollars.
1663  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: BIP0034 on: October 02, 2012, 12:53:00 PM
Some blocks are already version 2:
https://blockexplorer.com/rawblock/00000000000003a81f3b36a46df322ee142a9d2ff1d2785ea539540c23a2d6ee

Now I get why, all of the sudden, the new getmemorypool command sent me data with nVersion=2. I thought it was a bug.

So I guess this means that clients older than 0.7.0 don't consider blocks with nVersion=2 to be invalid? The BIP says the "official Satoshi client will not mine or relay them", but the "official Satoshi client" is suggesting this version number itself, and everything seems to be working now with version 2 blocks included in the block chain.

Read this.
1664  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Scammer tag: Nefario. on: October 02, 2012, 04:26:04 AM

Wow!  What an amazingly unbiased poll!  If you don't get the landslide you are looking for, you should crosspost that into all of the foundation threads.
1665  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Size of BTC blockchain centuries from now... on: October 02, 2012, 04:17:27 AM
In the next release, they will most likely make the switch to levelDB, which will be significantly faster in disk I/O. Smiley

How would that possibly work?  Everyone would download a new version of the blockchain database...from each other? When nobody has it?  Lol, so the original releaser of the fully converted database would be able to put whatever the hell they wanted in it Tongue So it'd have to be a very lengthy and difficult conversion process or a flat switch over supporting two databases, which is also not ideal.

Erm.  I'm not sure where to start.

The blocks aren't in the database, they are just stuffed into files, and those files will not be changing at all.  What goes in the database is just index information so that blocks can be found quickly when needed.

The network passes blocks around, not files.  There is no need to distribute "new" database files.  New clients that don't have the blocks loaded will continue to load them as usual, by asking the network for them.  I haven't been following the work on leveldb, but I see no reason why the client couldn't include both sets of database libraries so that people upgrading can keep reading their old indexes while they generate the new ones.

And, I promise to leave at least one of my personal nodes running an old version for quite a while, just in case.
1666  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Questions about accounts vs btc addresses behaviour. on: October 02, 2012, 01:11:28 AM
Accounts are just a local bookkeeping feature, just some numbers to help you keep track of stuff.  They have absolutely no other meaning, and the network knows nothing about them.

You can tag an address with a label (account), and the system will keep track of how much comes in to that label (account).  When paying out, you can also choose to have the payment amount deducted from the balance for some label (account).

The move command just reduces the number associated with one label (account) and increase the number associated with another.

To answer your specific questions:

1.  No.
2.  No.  Never.  Never.
1667  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 02, 2012, 12:37:28 AM
I've seen no vast coverage of this turn of events that should be relevant for the dollar, what do you guys think about it?

Dollar no longer primary oil currency as China begins to sell oil using Yuan

FOREX.  Look it up.  The currency of settlement for oil purchases is unimportant.
1668  Other / Meta / Re: Ignored counter on: October 02, 2012, 12:34:57 AM
Just FYI, the background color behind the Ignore button changes the more people have used it.
1669  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: What is the best country to start a "bitcoin" business ? on: October 02, 2012, 12:11:23 AM
Is TOR a valid option?
1670  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: btcfpga vs bfl labs on: October 01, 2012, 11:52:51 PM
what the fuck does BFL labs mean? they clearly stated october

Since this is the newbies board, and some of the people here might be new to these forums, I'd like to point out to everyone that there are ignore buttons on the left side of the page.  They can make a dramatic improvement in the quality of posts from certain users.
1671  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Scammer tag: Nefario. on: October 01, 2012, 05:24:21 PM
This is an important point on being the only official holder of record.  This makes them more than "just an exchange".   On regular exchanges, you could through your broker request the actual physical certificates.

In the real world, exchanges don't hold the shares, ever.  They collect and match orders, and then issue (basically) receipts.  The actual movement of shares (whether physical, or on the books of the entity) is handled by the brokerages themselves*.  At no time does the exchange ever possess the shares.

* In reality, the brokerages have delegated the settlement function to clearing houses, just like banks have delegated check clearing to the ACH system.  That detail isn't important here.
1672  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Scammer tag: Nefario. on: October 01, 2012, 04:15:57 PM
They important point is just that: I PAYED for a service which GLBSE no longer provides.

So Nefario, when you delisted my bonds you should PAY ME the trade fee, since i have to do it all by myself from now on.

Thats doesnt fly IMO. You paid fees to acquire (or sell) the assets. That service has been delivered. Now you want another service, ie, sell your assets again, and nefario is no longer offering that service, and so wont be charging you for it. I see no reason for nefario to reimburse you.

(btw, not trying to be a spelling nazi, but its spelled "paid")

Ahh, but the problem with all of the current exchanges (including GLBSE) is that they not only provide the service of facilitating the sale, but they also act as the sole recorder of ownership.
1673  Economy / Economics / Re: A Resource Based Economy on: October 01, 2012, 03:50:03 PM
Meh.  I would say that money is all about trade, but that's just me.  And the rest of the world.
1674  Economy / Economics / Re: A Resource Based Economy on: October 01, 2012, 03:45:09 PM
yet money is all about economics.

This is why I don't take you seriously.  Well, a lot of it.
1675  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: "All cryptography is breakable" criticism on: October 01, 2012, 03:30:52 PM


Reminds me: Does anyone know why addresses are 160 Bit, and not 256? That way, there seem to be ~ 2^96 private keys for any given Bitcoin address - so the true length of a private key is also only 160 Bit.


Not quite true, the published address isn't really the public key, it's a hash of the public key with a checksum thrown in for error correction.
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What would happen if anyone used a new private key for a transaction that does not correspond to an already published public key?

Wouldn't matter anyway, since that is how bitcoins' transactions work.  A user creates a private key, it's corrosponding public key, and the address.  The address is published and can receive coins, but the public key isn't published until the first time coins are spent from that address.  The way this works is that addresses cannot be reversed to their public key, but the public key is required before the other nodes can verify the digital signing of any spending transactions.  So every time coins are spent from that address, the public key is included in the transaction and the transaction is signed with the private key.  Other nodes can then verify that the signing key is mathmaticly related to the public key presented & the address is related to the public key by the standard hashing algo used.  If I'm getting some details wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me, but this is the general idea.

Yup, that is correct.  To spend, you sign the transaction with the private key, and then provide that signature and the corresponding public key to the network.  The network then verifies that 1) the signature could only have been calculated using the private key that corresponds to the public key provided, and 2) that the public key does actually hash down to the hash (address) in the prevout.

A key point is that using a public key once does not claim it or make it special.  If someone manages to find a different private/public key pair with the same pubkey hash, that key is just as valid for other transactions using the same hash as the original was.
1676  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] Bitcoin Foundation on: October 01, 2012, 03:23:04 PM
It's quite difficult to wage a war against good intentions. Best of luck to you if you think you're fighting the good fight.

Al it takes is to use reason and look at the facts. So far there's been little of that and a lot of trickery, falacies and ad hominems.

Hahahaha.  I agree.  But probably not the way you think.
1677  Economy / Economics / Re: A Resource Based Economy on: October 01, 2012, 03:21:19 PM
I would say that they make mistakes, and if they are slow to accept and correct their mistakes, the correction can be harsh.  If we use government to actively avoid having to face that correction, it will be even more harsh when it hits.

Sounds like you almost accept the Keynesian view of what causes the business cycle. The austrians think it's all about money and specifically credit. I dunno, it's hard to say when you blame it on "they".

Quote
Capital is not money.  Nothing I said in that section was about money.  And again, you are the one saying that lack of invested capital is a moral issue.  Calling someone immature is only condescension if you believe that it is immoral to be young.

You believe that asia or whatever outsourced areas are incapable of providing for society without "capital investment". Yet, as we have seen, this is usually a much stronger effect of things like communism and a lack of democracy on their society rather than a lack of investment from western countries. Roll Eyes You seem to imply that they would be incapable of doing such things on their own, even though, say, Hong Kong flies completely in the face of this argument. You asked the question if insufficient capital was a moral issue. I don't even know what that is supposed to mean. I certainly did not say it.

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If you don't think that hidden taxes = more taxes, I doubt that I'll be able to convince you.  It seems like a pretty obvious thing, considering that every government everywhere throughout history has tried to hide taxes from the taxed.  Inflation, payroll withholdings, VAT, etc...

lol how are payroll taxes and VAT hidden? I didn't say that hidden taxes didn't imply more taxes, I implied that unhiding them would just cause a rise in the obvious ones. You think government will be defunded, but you just assume this to be true without any evidence. And you never answered what the result would be. Not even the hope of smaller government. Change in taxation is not a change in society, it's a change in taxation. What beneficial effects are you hoping for? Do you see that I am trying to get at the root, not the superficial?

Quote
Please tell me, with as much precision as you can muster, that percentage of new income should have gone to the top 1%.  Heh, I find it funny that the article doesn't say top 1% by what measure.  Height?  Popularity?  Before you linked it, did you bother clicking through to the study itself to see what the author was talking about?  Or did you just start frothing at the mouth at the inequality that you didn't understand?

Am I supposed to take you seriously at all?

"They" refers back to the previously used noun, in this case "everyone", for small values of everyone, meaning "the bulk of the people" or "society".  Regarding Keynes and Austrians, I think they are both wrong in general, mostly in the sense that they have convinced themselves that they know things that they don't really know.

I think that they most of the cheap labor parts of the world would be for a much rougher ride than the west if ties were severed.  Their economies are geared towards trade, not domestic needs, and I don't think they have the capital to change direction as easily as we could.  It would be bad, but my stone age comment was more hyperbole than a specific prediction.

You keep saying that I'm being condescending by pointing out the lack of accumulated capital in those parts of the world.  In my view, the lack of capital is not a moral issue, and I don't consider them morally inferior for it.  For it to be condescension to point that out, one would need to hold that lack of development is a moral issue.

P.S.  Hong Kong was under British rule until very recently.  Great example of local development.

How are payroll taxes and VAT not hidden?  Payroll taxes are money that is gone before you possess it.  It isn't something you have and then get taken away, it is just a number on the stub.  The emotional attachment is different, even if you are intellectually aware of them.  VAT is hidden by being rolled into the prices of things.

People act on the superficial all the time.  Many people are uneasily content paying their 50%+ taxes, because they are distributed and hidden.  If 100% of that money came into their hands, and then more than half was removed by force, there would be much more pressure from the people to reduce them, which is essentially the same thing as pressure to reduce the size of government.  I'm not sure which specific beneficial effects you are looking for me to list.  Do you want me to say that people with smaller governments are more rugged and self reliant?  I think that they are, and I think that those are virtues.

I don't care if you take me seriously at all.  I sure don't take you seriously.  Want to answer the questions in that last paragraph that you skipped?
1678  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Increasing the number of keys in key pool on: October 01, 2012, 02:01:34 PM
The risk with deterministic wallets is obvious. If someone cracks the deterministic seed used, he has all your money, now and into the future, for that particular wallet. With a randomly generated wallet, someone would have to crack or bruteforce every private key. Of course, if someone cracks the passphrase used for encrypted wallets, he has everything in your current wallet up to the key pool maximum (or future 100 transactions) but not your 101st transaction. (for default keypool=100).

I say, give the user the choice. I prefer randomly generated wallets.

I prefer random keys too, but realistically speaking, cracking the master seed is equivalent to either 1) breaking all EC math, including bitcoin, or 2) stealing your wallet and cracking your password.  (I'm pretty sure armory encrypts the master seed at least as well as the reference client encrypts the private keys.)

In either case, you have big problems.  EC wallets have plenty of advantages, and only insignificant theoretical disadvantages.  They should probably be the default.
1679  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] Bitcoin Foundation on: October 01, 2012, 01:46:44 PM
Where does it say it is The Bitcoin Foundation? Where is that coming from? In most (well, all afaik) places it's simply "Bitcoin Foundation".

I'm curious about this because there is some conflicting information on this. Some people refer to it as The Foundation, but in most places it is actually written as simply Bitcoin Foundation.

The bylaws have it as "THE BITCOIN FOUNDATION, INC."
1680  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Subscription Model - OP_CHECK_HEIGHT? on: October 01, 2012, 01:24:11 PM
I think the simplest/most intuitive way to implement this is for mobile wallet apps to know how to wake up and send money for recurring subscriptions.

Ding.  Supply side automation is the way to go.

One of the nice things about bitcoin is that there is no pull capability, the closest you can get is pull requests.

One possible way to do pull requests...  You tell your wallet that it can automatically push transactions out if they come in signed, according to limits set by you for each key.  Your cable company gives you a key, and you allow it to pull up to X bitcoins each month, and your power company's key is allowed up to Y BTC per month.  Any requests that come in unsigned are discarded, and anything over the limits is queued up for manual approval.
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