It is probably illegal to pay out to one party to the detriment of others if you are technically bankrupt, i.e. if you have less value on hand than you owe.
Wrong. There is always some seniority ranking on who gets paid and who does not is the case of Bankruptcy. |
|
|
|
Hi.
My name is Tom. Order #1183 And I want to say that I was recently approached by few companies/distributors which reached out to me last week offering me 15 bitcoins a week to say negative things about AMTminer/Bitmine. I am a client of AMT and a Chinese American national as well. They saw that I was on the forum in the Chinese section (different username to protect my identity and other business) and they sent me the messaged the following:
您好研究员中国人。
我们集团总部设在中国的分销商，而我们偷筹码微小quanitity从Bitmine芯片厂。
我们有一个非常有限的供应，只有1,982芯片。我们将建设成只有47名矿工。我们想卖给他们的最低8,000美元，将提供他们很晚了，但我们给的佣金非常快。
现在，我们正在努力使我们的矿工工作，但我们没有成功。这就是为什么我们是卖预售矿工的方法。我们希望把现在的钱，并尝试建立和更高的实际技术员。
我们卖我们的产品与4瓦特不同的公司名称，所以我们可以拿钱，也许使他们的工作。
我们已经创建了4个不同的公司（一个即使是在英国），并有与没有工作现在矿工的图像。
我们知道AMTminers和Bitmine产品出货到客户端现在，这会毁了我们的机会来销售我们的矿工。因此，我们必须停止这两家公司销售，这样我们就可以从美国人民窃取。
作为中国一哥，这是你的责任，以帮助其他中国企业在这个行业生存。请帮助用英语你的高知识，说坏话，做错误的AMTminers和Bitmine的声誉。你将不得不说谎，但对于中国的生存，我们必须做的不对的这些公司。我们必须停止这些公司。
我们付出了每周15比特币对你有所帮助。我们将与我们的矿工很快被开采并不会有任何问题向您支付。
请写回到我的身边，如果你愿意提供帮助。
小旺
It basically says that have stolen a small quantity of chipsfrom the bitmine factory in china. They plan to make 47 miners and want to mine with them first and sell them and deliver them late. They say they are creating fake companies here in this forum to try and pre-sell them. The go on to mention they need time and money to try and make the miners work. They want to stop AMT and Bitmine from selling and they claim to be paying 15 bitcoins a week to write bad things about these two companies. They go on to try and coax me into working with them because they I am Chinese and its my duty.
-
I have been working with Chinese for years because of my main business and the fact that I'm a Chinese American. I have seen things like this before and know it is very possible for a Chinese supplier to pay for black PR or negative/bad press/reviews of a competing company, especially if the other company is not Chinese.
The truth is, I'm more American than Chinese, and I'll never go back to china again unless its for the cheap production. I've talked with Jim and from AMTminers, I've build a personal relationship with AMTminers and I'm a client of AMTminers. I like their brute approach to this industry. Because of the relationship I've developed with Jim over the phone, I feel like it's my job to show whats happening. How a normal US based company can get trashed on these forums from Chinese liars and scam artists.
But If I didn't have the 6 figure income that I currently do, I might take these guys up on their offer, even though they would probably not pay in the end either.
I felt it was important to show the community what is happening on the Chinese side of things.
ROFL, now we have the new funniest story. Crazy as this entire story sounds, there is some verification by Bitmine.ch of the presence of what they call 'counterfeit' coincraft A1 chips. It is not unusual for Chinese manufacturers to have leakage where a certain amount of goods are sold in the black market. Of course, AMT and BitMine are both shooting themselves in the foot by promising and not delivering. |
|
|
|
ask yourself, why is AMT (and even Bitmine) not making an effort to counter the FUD?
Answer: they got a wholesale buyer that needs no further convincing. If that's the case then we're all just chopped liver. Exactly! Why care about fussy retail customers when you already booked a massive contract? |
|
|
|
We'll know in the next day or two what boards they are using. Since they shipped orders 400 to 500, I'm sure there's a few customers that will post here what they received.
Ya dude, they haven't shipped a DAMN thing. Yet another day with no pictures. NO PICTURES NO PICTURES NO VIDEOS, EVERY FUCKING SCAM I SEE RUN IS EXACTLY LIKE THIS FOR FUCKS SAKE. WHY THE FUCK WOULD THEY NOT POST A PICTURE OF THE UNITS THEY ARE SHIPPING?!?!?!? Please someone who loves to defend AMT give me a good reason why they can't take a picture of their units they are shipping. I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT SOME CHIPS EITHER, THOSE AREN'T FUCKING UNITS. Seriously, you can end the thread right here until they post a picture or video of all the units they are supposedly producing. Forget about every other detail in this thread, they are meaningless. Forget about Bulgaria, forget about anything. The one true thing that ALWAYS shows 100% guilt is the inability to take a fucking picture. A new thread just needs to be opened about trying to track and prosecute these fucks. A> Pictures of cases with components installed (finished unit) B> Pictures of the manufacturing line and/or parts for the miners (cases/PSUs/boards/chips) C> Pictures of the boards with chips installed D> Pictures of ANYTHING Any one of the above things would alleviate all this FUD.
Even if they didn't want something leaked (new board design/whatever) it would be impossible since buyers will have the miners soon themselves supposedly, and can release all the photos they want. It just DOESN'T make sense. The reason I asked for pictures of all the components weeks ago, is because it proves that they have the equipment already purchased and the capability to produce these miners. A table with 2 computer cases and a bunch of chips just doesn't cut it. That was the ONE AND ONLY photo of hardware for the 1.2TH units by the way. ask yourself, why is AMT (and even Bitmine) not making an effort to counter the FUD? Answer: they got a wholesale buyer that needs no further convincing. |
|
|
|
Will the nxt payments only be due AFTER the fully working client is released for inspection?
I am now only willing to do my 10,000 nxt pledge based on whether you will accept escrow on the payment (through whatever trusted bct member, 'escrow.ms' comes to mind, free of charge)...and I HIGHLY suggest everyone else in here does so.
There have been a ton of copy pasta IPO schemes lately (most notably stackcoin), so I suggest everyone do their due dilligence before payment. I'm not saying for sure this is a scam, but your copy pasta of the 'proof of burn' concept has set off some alarms for me.
I hope you are willing to accept escrow to gain trust on your 'business model,' else you can count me out. And if not, then I'll be sure to bump my own thread and say 'see guys, I told you so.'
A pledge reserves the right to acquire NEX. Payment will be due after a fully working client is released. So there is no need for the escrow that you are requesting. Maybe you are thinking of some other coin that has an escrow. You don't need to do that here. |
|
|
|
Actually, it does make a huge difference in this case. The Bitmine Coincraft A1 is the chip that the AMT miners are based off of.
That being said, the chips allegedly already shipped. Technobit is selling a Coincraft based board right now. How many chips shipped, I do not know. I do know that Bitmine is being about as transparent and professional as AMT right now, with far less excuse.
Exactly, if they already have the chips in their possession (which they had stated with photos in this thread) and are producing their own boards (as Martin indicated) - then Bitmine's delay would have ZERO effect on their production schedule. We know that they are not using the Technobit boards. But we do not know if they are using the Bitmine.ch boards. Bitmine.ch appears to be delayed ( go check their board ), so if we assume that they are using the same boards as Bitmine.ch then it is likely they are similarly delayed. Reality check here folks, Bitmine.ch is delayed. Bitmine.ch also just has as horrible interaction with their clients. But you can say the same thing about Cointerra before they delivered their first unit. So the AMT delay is entirely plausible. |
|
|
|
Thomas the Twin,
What's going on with the dot org site? It's still down. Luke is gonna have the website done by tomorrow so it would be nice to have it ported over to the proper [.org] domain.
Thanks.
Still waiting for my bounty for upgrading the client. |
|
|
|
No, I am just human... Humans make mistakes... AMT is run by humans... But that is irrelevant to the volume of useless allegations that still persist to be "thrown in peoples faces"... (Multiple times, I might add, reposted from post to post, and thus, slanderous. That is not just, "do what you like with this information"... That is harassing them, and us. We sat it the first five times it was posted.)
I see lots of half-ass collected information about photos, and obvious things about being around the world... But complete oversight/ignorance to the actual facts.
So you are right... they are not in PA, the list of shipped items is all fake, even bitmine.ch is in on the whole elaborate scam... Creating fake chips that only pretend to work, making videos that are all obviously magic smoke and mirrors, and the many real-life photos that must be photo-shopped. You got us... There is no spoon...
You preach for us not to trust AMT, yet provide no credentials as to why we should trust you.
So... What good reason, if any, would we have to trust you? I already know why I trust AMT, before I gave them my funds, and still after.
Oh, because you have no intentions, except to save the world from the evil AMT Freemasons. Mind if I ask what miners you own and support? Obviously not AMT's. And thus, your credentials and words become even less valuable, by that simple fact... even less valuable if you admit that you don't even own a miner.
If you have some solid proof of fraud, then take it to an authority. However, the presented crap is just that. At the moment, all credible proof I see, is in AMT's favor. (Not favorable, but in their favor, as being legitimate.)
What reasons do you have to trust AMT? Please, enlighten me. Because they have a website and 2 videos? Because they took your money? Because they posted a photo of some chips and a few cases? Every facet of AMT being a legitimate U.S business looks shady. Your way of dealing with people that bring this information to light, is to insult them - then back AMT with "they are trying their hardest". A speculative statement brought upon by what? Do you have some insight about AMT's operations that makes you feel so confident? If so, please share it with the thread in an effort to make everyone feel better. You have also made this personal. I shouldn't have to prove anything to you, and vice versa. I don't care what kind of miners you currently operate, or what your history is in this industry. We're here talking about whether or not AMT is going to deliver their orders - THAT'S IT! Your excuses for AMT's numerous errors is "humans make mistakes". That might somehow excuse their manufacturing and shipping delays, but it doesn't excuse the utter lack of professionalism exhibited by AMT in this thread. If there are circumstances which create delays, they should be updating us either by email or this thread. We all understand the industry, but what is compounding the problem is their lack of communication with their customers and insulting posts towards their customers. If AMT is legitimate, then they are by far the worst company I have ever seen in terms of business ethics and treatment/respect of their customers. They are treating CLENELL like shit and he's a paying customer simply requesting updates on what's going on. Instead of addressing the delays, they'd rather hop on here and insult him, and demand he remove amazon reviews if he wants his refund. This is ridiculous. What legitimate businesses operate this way? It isn't far fetched at all to believe CLENNEL's story about them not taking credit card's - their website says they accept CC/Paypal, but in actuality they don't. Every promised update from AMT has been missed, what is your reasoning for this (humans make mistakes)? I simply want AMT held accountable. If they just took CC's from the beginning this could of all been avoided. We the consumers, would have some form of protection from the possibility of fraud or non delivery : but that isn't the case. Everything with AMT seems to be bait & switch, if they do not take CC/Paypal - perhaps it's time they removed that from their website. No one wants this to be a scam. No one wants to throw this in the faces of others. Accept this, and try to be proactive about getting real answers and updates with others here in this thread. AMT can defend themselves should they choose, they do not need you to do it for them. FRICTIONLESSCOIN: You might find yourself making that trip to PA to get your refund in the near future. Why don't you stop and think about what you are saying before you decide to cannabilize CLENELL. He hasn't done anything wrong in my eyes. TL;DR; Why all the effort to prove yourself correct? Are you a customer? If so then you should travel to PA. I am a customer, I am a bit disappointed that they did not deliver their miner on the 3rd week of Feb. that they said they did. I'm going to wait out until the 2nd week of March. I'm concerned that they are late, but also is Bitmine.ch. Anyway I am hedging... selling my miner for 12 BTC (still no takers recently). My order is #961. I definitely am quite sure that if I get my miner in hand that I can fetch much more that 12 BTC even if it happened to be delivered by 2nd week of March. That is my game plan. |
|
|
|
None of this had to happen. Worries could have been squashed if AMT just gave some updates. I had to go to extremes to get these guys to answer me and then when i get a response they come on this board and lie about me? Well, that just confirms for me what I all ready knew - these guys are extremely unprofessional at best and thieves at worst. I am not an AMT lapdog plain and simple. I will not sit quiet and be told this is par for the course. AMT's definition of harassment is what other companies call basic customer service. I'm not in the business of giving thousands of dollars to people and then being ignored. I don't care what the supposed industry standard is or what anyone else does for that matter. AMT is their own worst enemy. I have made it very clear to AMT... they deliver my miner as order #610 or they refund my money. Plain and simple. All I am requesting is they keep their word. I am not asking for special treatment. If they do not do this I will pursue every means I can as a consumer to make them wish they had. If they think things are bad now they are in for a surprise. I have given them my word I will remove every negative comment I've made in regards to AMT if they JUST DO WHAT THEY PROMISED. The problem is... I am asking these guys to be sensible. To date AMT has not displayed any professionalism. That begs the question why am I even bothering to ask this of them now? Well, some people don't change until they have the screws put to them. I am hoping cooler heads prevail and Josh steps in. If he doesn't matters are only going to get worse for both parties. AMT wont be the first mining company taken to court.
If you are so concerned about losing your $6,000 investment, why don't you travel to PA and go to their office to collect the refund? |
|
|
|
Severance26
I can agree with some of your points but let me ask you why mark is running such masive exchange in spite?
If he has those issues he really can not solve it, then excuse me but run exchange only in japan and for japanesse customers.
Mark want to operate big exchange in spite- that does not make sense to me.
Edit
And i agree with rampion post what follow.
Why does the trading continue? It is obvious the Gox rates are way off from the market. Why does Mt.Gox insist on not shutting down the trading? Any normal exchange would have put a halt on trading until everything gets fixed. However, Mt.Gox clearly is not, so it is likely gaming this situation for themselves. |
|
|
|
Hello, is it over? Or i can take part now?
It is over when 1,000,000 Nxt have been pledged. |
|
|
|
I am invested in nxt, but not a stakeholder (I came too late to the party). I have read a lot about the unfairness of nxt distribution, about 70 stakeholders (the whales) hold the majority of coins. If you look at the nxt charts, you could sure get the idea that the whales are dumping every time nxt are rising! Even if there is no proof for this theory, I strongly believe it. But I also believe that the whales finally will slow down the dumping and become holders when they realize that there is long term value in nxt. So all will be good in the end for nxt investors, even the small fishes like me!  tl;dr There is no point investing in nem if you are already invested in nxt. Stay calm, watch nxt rising slowly!
That is like saying, "There's no point in investing in google if you are already invested in yahoo". No, actually I am saying "There is no point investing in yahoo if you are already invested in google".  BTW I am invested in bitcoin, namecoin, primecoin, nxt and exocoin... Well then, that's a hypocritical statement. Your obviously diversified in other coins. exocoin at this stage is a bit like NEM, still in the works. So you have two houses in a neighborhood, one house sold for $50,000,000 . Another house goes for sale with the exact characteristics as the first house. It is being sold for $50,000.... clearly that sounds like a bargain. People over think this stuff! |
|
|
|
The only thing new in Martin's post was confirmation that AMT was designing their own hashing board, rather than using the HEX series again. Which kills one of my theories, as I had posited that they had licensed the Technobit design.
Yes.... that is a very interesting revelation. Question though, are they using Bitmine.ch design? Is this why both Bitmine.ch and AMT are delayed? |
|
|
|
Any competition toward being "fairest" or "most equal" without building community and considering other practical issues is pointless, imho.
Agree here. There are multiple considerations on how to distribute a coin. The long term consideration of building transaction if of course extremely important. NEM has done a decent job of getting interest of 3,000+ participants. That's quite good comparable to Nxt with an original 72 participants. NEX by contrast has 150 participants who have pledged 780,000 Nxt and 1,000 email based interested participants. It is still early stages, but I am sure with a working prototype, we expect greater participation. There is of course a difference in how NEM and NEX are raising funds. NEX does not collect funds until actual proof of delivery. I'm not saying it is better, it is just different. |
|
|
|
I am invested in nxt, but not a stakeholder (I came too late to the party). I have read a lot about the unfairness of nxt distribution, about 70 stakeholders (the whales) hold the majority of coins. If you look at the nxt charts, you could sure get the idea that the whales are dumping every time nxt are rising! Even if there is no proof for this theory, I strongly believe it. But I also believe that the whales finally will slow down the dumping and become holders when they realize that there is long term value in nxt. So all will be good in the end for nxt investors, even the small fishes like me! tl;dr There is no point investing in nem if you are already invested in nxt. Stay calm, watch nxt rising slowly!
That is like saying, "There's no point in investing in google if you are already invested in yahoo". At this very early stage, everything is up for grabs. You never know which coin is going to go gangbusters. I for one never expected DOGE coin to explode. So as an investment strategy, I encourage folks to diversify. Consider for example one of the first coins we built.... ZenithCoin... it has been around since June 2013 (one of the earlier alt-coins). But it only has been listed lately and exchange and is at the bottom of www.coinmarketcap.com . Now it is really cheap at under $25,000 total, but you will just never know if it goes up 10x at 250,000 or 100x at 2.5m. We also spend effort maintaining the 2nd oldest altcoin... IXCoin... it has been around for 3 years, we like the fact that it has a ridiculous hash rate of around 15 peta hashes. There is also the coin NEX that is under heavy development. We've taken a lot of the ideas on Bitcoin's wishlist and of other 2nd gen currency and created an innovative new platform. The point is, don't put all your eggs in one basket. The situation is very fluid and you want to be position in different places. |
|
|
|
I think it's so funny that people are so scared of new coins. They have an interest in coin, and then feel that they have to bash new coins, or their coin will be hurt by the new one. You should have more confidence in your investment or sell it and move on. But no, you convince yourself of lies, or purposely spread FUD about a new coin. Everytime you do this you actually hurt the coin you care so much about. Do you really think that most people read your silly comments and think more positive about your coin? Or negative of the new coin you are so scared of? Maybe some do, but I believe that most who read your bullshit see right thru you!! It is so funny to me!!! Agree entirely. Also, Nxt is supposed to be open source, so just like Bitcoin, copying and improvements of the code base is an assumption. Calling that copying 'immoral' tells you the guy who made the quote has no clue what 'open source' means. Finally, crypto-currencies are all about competition. If a coin can't keep its value if it gets copied, then that's just how it is. Bitcoin gets copied all the time. Its value still looks pretty good despite all the alt-coins out there. On the flip side, a lot of alt-coin also have extreme valuations. |
|
|
|
* liquidity has to be "centralised". this is because orderflow is time-ordered. if you have order_1, ...,order_N, then each depends on the other. this is completely different than the blockchain for most (not all) goods. on the blockchain the tx (tx_1, ..., tx_n) are largely independent of each other (otherwise the block mechanism would not work!). arbitrage insures that liquidity flows to the most efficient pool, which is going to be "central" (although might be distributed in a different sense).
right on! ive been saying this for months. once its distributed, everyones order book looks different. In the real exchanges, orders have a choice to be routed to an exchange. Furthermore, if I recall, every exchange must post is best bid and lowest ask price to allow orders to be routed to the appropriate exchange. |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
