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1721  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What features of Bitcoin would you never give up? on: September 17, 2015, 04:33:00 PM
Quite concerning that one of the principal property of a money-like commodity, fungibility, isn't valued more.
1722  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Thanks to people who support 1-2 MB blocks - great idea u fools... on: September 17, 2015, 04:26:42 PM
point is a home node having 60+ peers is nutty

Well... my goal was to share information with whomever asked for it without abusing the offer. Apparently that's crazy!

it is!

you're probably forwarding TX's to all your peers most of whom probably already received those TX datas from the other 60+peers Their connected to.

and that sir is called resilience by redundancy

The only thing that needs redundancy is the blockchain. Broadcasting the same transaction twice is called inefficiencies.

Welp! Should've told Satoshi heh  Cheesy

Seriously who do you think you noobs are giving engineering lessons to people when you are most clueless about how the system operates.  Roll Eyes

Then go on and explain how broadcasting the same transaction twice increase resilience instead of making pointless post. 

Well first you'll have to explain where do you get the idea that transactions are broadcasted twice?

Sorry I should add this precision: Broadcasting a transaction to a node that has already received this transaction.

In other word, inefficiencies.

Are you aware of exactly how this works? The transaction data is not uploaded to the peers unless they request for it, in which case if they do then it signifies they have not "already received this transaction".
1723  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Thanks to people who support 1-2 MB blocks - great idea u fools... on: September 17, 2015, 04:17:05 PM
Allow Nick Szabo to explain it to you:

Quote
Compared to existing financial IT, Satoshi made radical trade-offs in favor of security and against performance. The seemingly wasteful process of mining is the most obvious of these trade-offs, but it also makes others. Among them is that it requires high redundancy in its messaging. Mathematically provable integrity would require full broadcast between all nodes. Bitcoin can’t achieve that, but to even get anywhere close to a good approximation of it requires a very high level of redundancy. So a 1MB block takes vastly more resources than a 1MB web page, for example, because it has to be transmitted, processed and stored with such high redundancy for Bitcoin to achieve its automated integrity.



Nick Szabo is not saying it's usefull for 1 node to get the same TX data 6 times, he's saying its useful the TX data is redundantly stored on all nodes.
What exactly are you referring to as "get the same TX data 6 times"? I keep reading that, but not following.

Don't mind him he really doesn't know what he's talking about...
1724  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin XT Post Mortem - Group Discussion on: September 17, 2015, 04:02:19 PM
Again, you should wait to see what will happen with the block always full Wink

The day where starting to count is the 11 January 2016.

And barring a stock market collapse I don't think we're going to see blocks full on average then.  Wink
1725  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) on: September 17, 2015, 02:37:08 AM



 Cheesy
1726  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What is their agenda? on: September 17, 2015, 01:22:05 AM
normally it is not allowed to answer your question but i want to help:

https://de.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3gmkak/the_blockstream_business_plan/

could be a reason.

There are some companies/persons that benefit with the no block increase. There have been rumors that blockcstream is actively pushing for a no size block increase.

There are some companies/persons that benefit with the no block increase. There have been rumors that blockcstream is actively pushing for a no size block increase.

Because tps limit issue of blockchain is the whole focus to push ppl over to Blockstream. Its not rumor, its a fact.

Hi OP!

BTW these are lying trolls  Grin
1727  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Real Problem isn't XT... on: September 17, 2015, 01:17:41 AM
Because he is the one who brought bitcoin to life. And i really think that there would be not much resistance against what he claims to be right. He is simply so very much trusted.

Only his words would be listened to and considered. You've seemingly totally missed the point of the whole anonymous act.

Quote
Bitcoin was designed to be protected from the influence of charismatic leaders, even if their name is Gavin Andresen, Barack Obama, or Satoshi Nakamoto.  Nearly everyone has to agree on a change, and they have to do it without being forced or pressured into it.  By doing a fork in this way, these developers are violating the "original vision" they claim to honour.
1728  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Real Problem isn't XT... on: September 17, 2015, 01:07:59 AM
...
Regardless, I really don't understand why people care what he would think anyhow.

He is the only person that when voicing his opinion in this matter, could actually be considered unbiased,
since he was the creator and in theory would make the best choice for Bitcoin/bitcoin, and not for himself.

His decision in this matter, if 100% verified to be him, would end the debate immediately, IMO.

But, as I have said many times, I believe he is no longer living as well.


One man should never have that much power.

Satoshi comes off as a brilliant man, women or group.  They will never return, their opinion is now regarded as gods opinion.. such power is bad.

Satoshi created bitcoin for the people, Satoshi can no longer be involved, Bitcoin cannot have one person/group that decides it's future.

I think you are right. When Satoshi would speak up then his word would be a law. No one would speak against without surviving it because bitcoiners love satoshi till death.

Though i think this is the biggest real crisis for the community and the development of bitcoin. Before crisis were only scams or drop of price. That is nothing with the technology. But now satoshi really could start to say a word in order to safe bitcoin. It's his child at the end.

I think he still takes part in the community. Maybe we wrote with him already without knowing it. I really don't think he is not here anymore.

I'm sorry but this ideology is why Satoshi is never coming back and an example of how dangerous for Bitcoin it would be.

This is not your religion.

There is no Satoshi.

There is no God.
1729  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What happens now that BitcoinXT is essentially dead on: September 17, 2015, 01:00:02 AM
The feeling I got from the conference and overhearing a couple discussion is the trend is tending toward a very conservative increase to provide necessary time to develop necessary layers to scale.

It's quite clear to me a majority of the focus shifted from the block size as any type of scaling solution to more realist and sensible proposals like different implementations of open payment protocols.

The danger of that strategy is a sudden spike in use taking place during the earlier phases of the conservative increase (if >1 phase even exists). The sooner that some tx rate spike inducing event happens after a conservative increase, the easier it would be to exploit user frustration by construing the tx spike as being a direct consequence of making too conservative an increase (followed by another unilateral hard fork attempt...)

I'm looking at the purely political angle, and so it's easy to dismiss it as just a hypothetical, but it seems to me that ruling out this kind of oppotunity somehow needs to be either addressed in it's own right or made redundant by whatever the preferred solution to scaling is.

I agree with that concern and here is a way to mitigate this, quoting Matt Corallo:

Quote
"Greatest common denominator" agreement did not seem to be agreeing to an increase which continues over time, but which instead limits itself to a set, smooth increase for X time and then requires a second hardfork if there is agreement on a need for more blocksize at that point."

Smooth is the key word here. It won't even go from 1-2, providing we do hard fork, but should follow a schedule of smooth increases over-time or according to a cost-based flex cap for X time.

I'm guessing they'd like to throw "the industry" and "the community" a bone while they get to work on building & lobbying for actual scaling systems.
1730  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Thanks to people who support 1-2 MB blocks - great idea u fools... on: September 17, 2015, 12:07:40 AM
Allow Nick Szabo to explain it to you:

Quote
Compared to existing financial IT, Satoshi made radical trade-offs in favor of security and against performance. The seemingly wasteful process of mining is the most obvious of these trade-offs, but it also makes others. Among them is that it requires high redundancy in its messaging. Mathematically provable integrity would require full broadcast between all nodes. Bitcoin can’t achieve that, but to even get anywhere close to a good approximation of it requires a very high level of redundancy. So a 1MB block takes vastly more resources than a 1MB web page, for example, because it has to be transmitted, processed and stored with such high redundancy for Bitcoin to achieve its automated integrity.

I will say it again, that Bitcoin is the only network of its kind that has saturated the level of home-based internet infrastructure to the point that it can now move onto the next stage of its evolution (8MB), while the niche it used to cover can be served by its closest PoW competitor, which has exact same properties except for smaller market cap, while being at the time more convenient to operate at home.

Satoshi has always intended to increase the limit and even provided a small code-snippet demonstrating how to do it.


How about no? You can go ahead and create EvolutionCoin but you can't and won't have Bitcoin.

Haha!

Nothing in the Universe is static. Bitcoin has never been effectively capped either.
Keep it at 1MB forever and it will wither and die or mutate into sidechains that would then tear it apart anyway.

Remember, the true path of Bitcoin isn't ambiguous.
Sometimes things need to change in order to stay the same. Smiley

A protocol like Bitcoin will eventually become static and sort of ossify once it is considered good enough. The evolution will come from additional layers.

Bitcoin is the cambrian explosion but its blockchain alone will never support the whole financial system.
1731  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Thanks to people who support 1-2 MB blocks - great idea u fools... on: September 16, 2015, 11:46:45 PM
Allow Nick Szabo to explain it to you:

Quote
Compared to existing financial IT, Satoshi made radical trade-offs in favor of security and against performance. The seemingly wasteful process of mining is the most obvious of these trade-offs, but it also makes others. Among them is that it requires high redundancy in its messaging. Mathematically provable integrity would require full broadcast between all nodes. Bitcoin can’t achieve that, but to even get anywhere close to a good approximation of it requires a very high level of redundancy. So a 1MB block takes vastly more resources than a 1MB web page, for example, because it has to be transmitted, processed and stored with such high redundancy for Bitcoin to achieve its automated integrity.

I will say it again, that Bitcoin is the only network of its kind that has saturated the level of home-based internet infrastructure to the point that it can now move onto the next stage of its evolution (8MB), while the niche it used to cover can be served by its closest PoW competitor, which has exact same properties except for smaller market cap, while being at the time more convenient to operate at home.

Satoshi has always intended to increase the limit and even provided a small code-snippet demonstrating how to do it.


How about no? You can go ahead and create EvolutionCoin but you can't and won't have Bitcoin.
1732  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 16, 2015, 11:39:29 PM

I don't think you're being fair. Yes you are doing something by putting a little money into Bitcoin here and there. You are supporting Bitcoin because you want a better monetary system that isn't based on debt, and isn't confined by borders.  When times are lean then it makes sense to stash something valuable away, until it becomes worth more. When the value appreciates again, Bitcoin holders can use their increased purchasing power to support businesses that embrace crypto, rather than cash out. That's what 'many around here' are waiting to do I'm sure.

Buying a bitcoin and doing absolutely nothing with it for 10 years is about as useless to the bitcoin ecosystem as completely ignoring it.

You dont support bitcoin by wanting a "monetary system that isn't based on debt, and isn't confined by borders" .. thats called dreaming. You can support bitcoin by actively seeking out ways that you can integrate bitcoin in your daily life, and maybe provide services to others using bitcoin.

Quite a twisted and erroneous view of economics.

Holders are the ones giving value to the coins.  


Its whether or not the next person wants to buy your coin, and for how much, is what gives them value. Not the holder.
If there is no utility, no infrastructure and no potential then there is no market.

There is utility, it's called a store of value with rather unique properties. Bitcoin grew to 3B$ market cap with little utility & infrastructure.

It's really simple, Bitcoin is money and as such as more capital is trusted into it (holders) the higher its value is so it's absolutely wrong to pretend that "buying a bitcoin and doing absolutely nothing with it for 10 years is useless".
1733  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Thanks to people who support 1-2 MB blocks - great idea u fools... on: September 16, 2015, 11:17:39 PM
Allow Nick Szabo to explain it to you:

Quote
Compared to existing financial IT, Satoshi made radical trade-offs in favor of security and against performance. The seemingly wasteful process of mining is the most obvious of these trade-offs, but it also makes others. Among them is that it requires high redundancy in its messaging. Mathematically provable integrity would require full broadcast between all nodes. Bitcoin can’t achieve that, but to even get anywhere close to a good approximation of it requires a very high level of redundancy. So a 1MB block takes vastly more resources than a 1MB web page, for example, because it has to be transmitted, processed and stored with such high redundancy for Bitcoin to achieve its automated integrity.

1734  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Thanks to people who support 1-2 MB blocks - great idea u fools... on: September 16, 2015, 11:07:38 PM
we should make a new thread about this network topology stuff, and have hours of fun arguing about the most optimal design, while ignoring brg444's trollery that we are wasting our time.  

http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-September/

Go right ahead, I'm grabbing popcorn.

What is this disease you people suffer from that you need to fix everything that's not broken.  Huh
1735  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Thanks to people who support 1-2 MB blocks - great idea u fools... on: September 16, 2015, 10:53:14 PM
jesus christ is it so hard to believe bitcoin version 1 wasn't the most optimal piece of software in the world?

You are not qualified to judge this  Undecided

actually i am, we all are.

which is why bitcoin will improve or die.

because i WILL move on to somthing I JUDGE better, if bitcoin can't deliver.

What you're essentially suggesting is to completely redesign Bitcoin's network topology and protocol to favor a more centralized design.

For the sake of what remains of your reputation you might want to avoid shouting this idea from the top of every roofs.

Your decision is irrelevant.
1736  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Thanks to people who support 1-2 MB blocks - great idea u fools... on: September 16, 2015, 10:49:47 PM
jesus christ is it so hard to believe bitcoin version 1 wasn't the most optimal piece of software in the world?

You are not qualified to judge this  Undecided
1737  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Thanks to people who support 1-2 MB blocks - great idea u fools... on: September 16, 2015, 10:48:37 PM
point is a home node having 60+ peers is nutty

Well... my goal was to share information with whomever asked for it without abusing the offer. Apparently that's crazy!

it is!

you're probably forwarding TX's to all your peers most of whom probably already received those TX datas from the other 60+peers Their connected to.

and that sir is called resilience by redundancy

The only thing that needs redundancy is the blockchain. Broadcasting the same transaction twice is called inefficiencies.

Welp! Should've told Satoshi heh  Cheesy

Seriously who do you think you noobs are giving engineering lessons to people when you are most clueless about how the system operates.  Roll Eyes

Then go on and explain how broadcasting the same transaction twice increase resilience instead of making pointless post.  

Well first you'll have to explain where do you get the idea that transactions are broadcasted twice?
there actually broadcasted many times as they hop from one node to the other

do you even know how bitcoin works?    Cool

They're broadcasted once by every node to all of their peers until everyone acknowledges its existence.  
1738  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Thanks to people who support 1-2 MB blocks - great idea u fools... on: September 16, 2015, 10:33:19 PM
point is a home node having 60+ peers is nutty

Well... my goal was to share information with whomever asked for it without abusing the offer. Apparently that's crazy!

it is!

you're probably forwarding TX's to all your peers most of whom probably already received those TX datas from the other 60+peers Their connected to.

and that sir is called resilience by redundancy

The only thing that needs redundancy is the blockchain. Broadcasting the same transaction twice is called inefficiencies.

Welp! Should've told Satoshi heh  Cheesy

Seriously who do you think you noobs are giving engineering lessons to people when you are most clueless about how the system operates.  Roll Eyes

Then go on and explain how broadcasting the same transaction twice increase resilience instead of making pointless post. 

Well first you'll have to explain where do you get the idea that transactions are broadcasted twice?
1739  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Thanks to people who support 1-2 MB blocks - great idea u fools... on: September 16, 2015, 10:14:56 PM
point is a home node having 60+ peers is nutty

Well... my goal was to share information with whomever asked for it without abusing the offer. Apparently that's crazy!

it is!

you're probably forwarding TX's to all your peers most of whom probably already received those TX datas from the other 60+peers Their connected to.

and that sir is called resilience by redundancy

The only thing that needs redundancy is the blockchain. Broadcasting the same transaction twice is called inefficiencies.

Welp! Should've told Satoshi heh  Cheesy

Seriously who do you think you noobs are giving engineering lessons to people when you are most clueless about how the system operates.  Roll Eyes
1740  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 16, 2015, 09:46:10 PM

I don't think you're being fair. Yes you are doing something by putting a little money into Bitcoin here and there. You are supporting Bitcoin because you want a better monetary system that isn't based on debt, and isn't confined by borders.  When times are lean then it makes sense to stash something valuable away, until it becomes worth more. When the value appreciates again, Bitcoin holders can use their increased purchasing power to support businesses that embrace crypto, rather than cash out. That's what 'many around here' are waiting to do I'm sure.

Buying a bitcoin and doing absolutely nothing with it for 10 years is about as useless to the bitcoin ecosystem as completely ignoring it.

You dont support bitcoin by wanting a "monetary system that isn't based on debt, and isn't confined by borders" .. thats called dreaming. You can support bitcoin by actively seeking out ways that you can integrate bitcoin in your daily life, and maybe provide services to others using bitcoin.

Quite a twisted and erroneous view of economics.

Holders are the ones giving value to the coins.

Ask Rothbard:

Quote
Money is just as useful when lying “idle” in somebody’s cash balance, even in a miser’s “hoard.” (At what point does a man’s cash balance become a faintly disreputable “hoard,” or the prudent man a miser? It is impossible to fix any definite criterion: generally, the charge of “hoarding” means that A is keeping more cash than B thinks is appropriate for A.) For that money is being held now in wait for possible future exchange—it supplies to its owner, right now, the usefulness of permitting exchanges at any time—present or future—the owner might desire.
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