This will reduce the pressure on the main chain.
yeah while helping those that made the chain, to milk the initial amount of coins, and be magically early adopter, to dump later this is the real definition of quick buck scam, that was running in the alt section for year, d we really need to repeat it another time, in disguise? There is no such thing as "initial coins" Seeing how dumb what you just said is I'm guessing you are speaking from experience when referring to scams. the coins that will be issued when you launch a sidechain, should be the same as any altcoin, but they are worthless they create you a numbers of coins(tokesn), when you send bitcoin to those chains i imagine that some chain could begin with some of those coins already ready, a sort of premining Exactly, so in the case of Liquid, units on the sidechains only get created if there is a BTC collateral. As such, any coin on the Liquid sidechain is worth its exact equivalent in Bitcoin. So how exactly do you propose this creates an opportunity for "early adopters" to "milk the initial amount of coins"? then they were spreading false info, because i've read about that here, from a forum member, maybe he was an heater if this how they actually work, then i'm fine with them Don't get me wrong, you could actually create a sidechain with pre-mined coins but that would be the equivalent of launching an alt-coin. It isn't something new that sidechains enable. ah well here we go, it was what i was talking about, this was the problem, there won't be anything from stopping someone in doing this, and maybe even success with it like it was with some altcoin while he can have his instamined crap sidechain coins Again, what is the difference with any other altcoins? How do sidechains make the problem worst? it wasn't that my point, my point was that it simply brings more garbage altcoin, even near to bitcoin, how this is a good thing? Altcoins are usually created under the pretense of offering an important or desirable feature not possible under Bitcoin. With sidechains it will eventually be possible to offer these features without having to bootstrap a new currency. Different sidechains will compete on the marketplace and those that leverage Bitcoin's scarcity and liquidity will come out as obvious winners against altcoins offering the same features but using a new, inflationary currency. Consider two sidechains that offers the same feature: privacy. Any sane person will prefer the one that recognizes the existing value of their holdings and does not require them to speculate on a new, volatile, currency. |
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This will reduce the pressure on the main chain.
yeah while helping those that made the chain, to milk the initial amount of coins, and be magically early adopter, to dump later this is the real definition of quick buck scam, that was running in the alt section for year, d we really need to repeat it another time, in disguise? There is no such thing as "initial coins" Seeing how dumb what you just said is I'm guessing you are speaking from experience when referring to scams. the coins that will be issued when you launch a sidechain, should be the same as any altcoin, but they are worthless they create you a numbers of coins(tokesn), when you send bitcoin to those chains i imagine that some chain could begin with some of those coins already ready, a sort of premining Exactly, so in the case of Liquid, units on the sidechains only get created if there is a BTC collateral. As such, any coin on the Liquid sidechain is worth its exact equivalent in Bitcoin. So how exactly do you propose this creates an opportunity for "early adopters" to "milk the initial amount of coins"? then they were spreading false info, because i've read about that here, from a forum member, maybe he was an heater if this how they actually work, then i'm fine with them Don't get me wrong, you could actually create a sidechain with pre-mined coins but that would be the equivalent of launching an alt-coin. It isn't something new that sidechains enable. ah well here we go, it was what i was talking about, this was the problem, there won't be anything from stopping someone in doing this, and maybe even success with it like it was with some altcoin while he can have his instamined crap sidechain coins Again, what is the difference with any other altcoins? How do sidechains make the problem worst? |
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Reversibility means Bitcoin has become centralized. No thanks.
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Tried to find good point from side chain, but give up after saw this : "paying an undisclosed monthly subscription fee"
Not transparent, centralized & have to pay monthly subscription fee. Why should we use it, unless if we really need to send bitcoin instanly?
It's good solution to fix long waiting time, but i hope it could be more transparent & cheap
well, we have to assume the exchanges are using it because they choose to. No one is forcing them. Perhaps its easier to settle than using Bitcoin. Maybe they find it less cluttering and easier to manage than the main chain. I have no problem with it as long as people have a choice and its not used to justify keeping blocksize limited. +1 It's nice to see you take a reasonable stance for once |
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This will reduce the pressure on the main chain.
yeah while helping those that made the chain, to milk the initial amount of coins, and be magically early adopter, to dump later this is the real definition of quick buck scam, that was running in the alt section for year, d we really need to repeat it another time, in disguise? There is no such thing as "initial coins" Seeing how dumb what you just said is I'm guessing you are speaking from experience when referring to scams. the coins that will be issued when you launch a sidechain, should be the same as any altcoin, but they are worthless they create you a numbers of coins(tokesn), when you send bitcoin to those chains i imagine that some chain could begin with some of those coins already ready, a sort of premining Exactly, so in the case of Liquid, units on the sidechains only get created if there is a BTC collateral. As such, any coin on the Liquid sidechain is worth its exact equivalent in Bitcoin. So how exactly do you propose this creates an opportunity for "early adopters" to "milk the initial amount of coins"? then they were spreading false info, because i've read about that here, from a forum member, maybe he was an heater if this how they actually work, then i'm fine with them Don't get me wrong, you could actually create a sidechain with pre-mined coins but that would be the equivalent of launching an alt-coin. It isn't something new that sidechains enable. I guess we will never know if its not transparent. Unless you are suggesting a multitude of different companies collude to create a fractional reserve, which is not impossible, I think that's highly unlikely considering these schemes tend to turn ugly pretty quickly and come around to bite them in the ass. You mean like the whole legacy banking system? What is biting them in the ass exactly? Creating money out of thin air is far more appealing than you might think even if it carries a lot of risks. Moreover it needs to be mentioned that only the amount of Bitcoin that was moved to the sidechain can be moved back to the mainchain therefore this carries no inflationary risk for Bitcoin itself.
That's what banks said when they started their gold vaults in exchange of paper IOUs... Look, if you don't understand sidechains I suggest you go read about them and come back once you've got the basics down. The monetary base of Bitcoin cannot be inflated by sidechains. The difference with gold is that you can cryptographically verify Bitcoin reserves. |
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Tried to find good point from side chain, but give up after saw this : "paying an undisclosed monthly subscription fee"
Not transparent, centralized & have to pay monthly subscription fee. Why should we use it, unless if we really need to send bitcoin instanly?
It's good solution to fix long waiting time, but i hope it could be more transparent & cheap
Is it so hard to understand this product is not addressed to consumers and regular users!? |
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This will reduce the pressure on the main chain.
yeah while helping those that made the chain, to milk the initial amount of coins, and be magically early adopter, to dump later this is the real definition of quick buck scam, that was running in the alt section for year, d we really need to repeat it another time, in disguise? There is no such thing as "initial coins" Seeing how dumb what you just said is I'm guessing you are speaking from experience when referring to scams. the coins that will be issued when you launch a sidechain, should be the same as any altcoin, but they are worthless they create you a numbers of coins(tokesn), when you send bitcoin to those chains i imagine that some chain could begin with some of those coins already ready, a sort of premining Exactly, so in the case of Liquid, units on the sidechains only get created if there is a BTC collateral. As such, any coin on the Liquid sidechain is worth its exact equivalent in Bitcoin. So how exactly do you propose this creates an opportunity for "early adopters" to "milk the initial amount of coins"? then they were spreading false info, because i've read about that here, from a forum member, maybe he was an heater if this how they actually work, then i'm fine with them Don't get me wrong, you could actually create a sidechain with pre-mined coins but that would be the equivalent of launching an alt-coin. It isn't something new that sidechains enable. I guess we will never know if its not transparent. Unless you are suggesting a multitude of different companies collude to create a fractional reserve, which is not impossible, I think that's highly unlikely considering these schemes tend to turn ugly pretty quickly and come around to bite them in the ass. Moreover it needs to be mentioned that only the amount of Bitcoin that was moved to the sidechain can be moved back to the mainchain therefore this carries no inflationary risk for Bitcoin itself. Exchanges are generally not transparent as it is already so Liquid certainly does not make the problem worst. |
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I've been sitting on the train, ready to go for a long time now. Let me know when it's about to go so I can wake up & post GIF's, rockets & other stuff to piss off the resident bears.
Your faith will be rewarded  There'll be some slashed seats soon if some passengers aren't satisfied. I'm content to enjoy the view for now. Ride is much nicer when there isn't so much noise  |
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This will reduce the pressure on the main chain.
yeah while helping those that made the chain, to milk the initial amount of coins, and be magically early adopter, to dump later this is the real definition of quick buck scam, that was running in the alt section for year, d we really need to repeat it another time, in disguise? There is no such thing as "initial coins" Seeing how dumb what you just said is I'm guessing you are speaking from experience when referring to scams. the coins that will be issued when you launch a sidechain, should be the same as any altcoin, but they are worthless they create you a numbers of coins(tokesn), when you send bitcoin to those chains i imagine that some chain could begin with some of those coins already ready, a sort of premining Exactly, so in the case of Liquid, units on the sidechains only get created if there is a BTC collateral. As such, any coin on the Liquid sidechain is worth its exact equivalent in Bitcoin. So how exactly do you propose this creates an opportunity for "early adopters" to "milk the initial amount of coins"? then they were spreading false info, because i've read about that here, from a forum member, maybe he was an heater if this how they actually work, then i'm fine with them Don't get me wrong, you could actually create a sidechain with pre-mined coins but that would be the equivalent of launching an alt-coin. It isn't something new that sidechains enable. |
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This will reduce the pressure on the main chain.
yeah while helping those that made the chain, to milk the initial amount of coins, and be magically early adopter, to dump later this is the real definition of quick buck scam, that was running in the alt section for year, d we really need to repeat it another time, in disguise? There is no such thing as "initial coins" Seeing how dumb what you just said is I'm guessing you are speaking from experience when referring to scams. the coins that will be issued when you launch a sidechain, should be the same as any altcoin, but they are worthless they create you a numbers of coins(tokesn), when you send bitcoin to those chains i imagine that some chain could begin with some of those coins already ready, a sort of premining Exactly, so in the case of Liquid, units on the sidechains only get created if there is a BTC collateral. As such, any coin on the Liquid sidechain is worth its exact equivalent in Bitcoin. So how exactly do you propose this creates an opportunity for "early adopters" to "milk the initial amount of coins"? |
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We also have a valuable limit used to avoid spam filling up blocks,
Wait - what? Clearly, the limit just ensures that relatively few spam transactions are required to fill up blocks. Exactly, so that when they interfere with actual demand for transactions they soon find themselves having to compete on the transaction fee market. |
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This will reduce the pressure on the main chain.
yeah while helping those that made the chain, to milk the initial amount of coins, and be magically early adopter, to dump later this is the real definition of quick buck scam, that was running in the alt section for year, d we really need to repeat it another time, in disguise? There is no such thing as "initial coins" Seeing how dumb what you just said is I'm guessing you are speaking from experience when referring to scams. |
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Yes, Blockstream is working hard to push users away from the permisionless bitcoin blockchain to their private permissioned sidechains to make a profit.
Things are getting ugly.
How do they wanna push me? If I decide I will not use their sidechain and pay them they can not force me. It's my choice.If I wanna do my transactions on chain I will do so. And I don't believe we will see high transaction fees on chain in the future. The community will react if the core devs of Blockstream try to f*** us. Wrong. It is already happening. Small blocks are making HUGE problems already today. MasterXchange is so frustrated with problems related to small blocks - they are closing. The pressure from 1MB block is hard to see - but it exists and it is already effecting many people. Block size 1MB is a disaster. The network is already under performance pressures. Blockstream is raging bullshit. They want to create a nightmare - and then offer a solution for a fee. These guys are scammers.  Bitcoin keeps performing like a champ for anyone that uses as it was intended to. What the fuck is MasterXchange anyway. |
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"Zane Tackett, director of product development at Bitfinex, noted that the ability to move funds between exchanges in seconds would make arbitrage opportunities more accessible to the trading community."
For arbitraging, the biggest lag lies in fiat money transfer, which side chain can not help at all. However, traders can build liquidity pool in each exchange to reduce the lag regardless it is fiat money or bitcoin. The reduce of liquidity requirement for bitcoin is not a big benefit since 10 minutes is already lightning fast if you comparing with fiat money's 2-5 days delay
And to achieve zero delay, exchanges could just establish their clearing channel without involving all the technical complexities in side chain: Bitfinex opens an account of 2000 coins at Btcc and Btcc opens an account of 2000 coins at Bitfinex, it does not cost them a dime and will enable a channel for daily settlement immediately
I think you need to be intentionally close minded not to see the benefits. “There have previously been a number of attempts by different exchanges to try and realize something like this,” Hill said. “Customers were asking for it, and these companies wanted to test the benefits. But previously, all attempts to do this included some form of counterparty credit agreements, or agreements to accept transactions with no confirmations. Because of the required trust involved in these kinds of solutions, they were never actually launched. By using a federated consensus sidechain, we can give exchanges the control of their own funds, but with the added functionality of instant transactions.” - Austin Hill |
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This effectively is a step toward decentralization of exchange services and better consumer protection.
A fantastic contribution to the community by Blockstream. In any other context this would have been looked at as a home run of ingenuity and technical abilities but sadly trolls with no morals persist in their foul manners and attack some of the most productive individuals in this space.
Is this your final form yet? Blockstream getting paid to keep transactions off the main chain. I can't beleive nobody saw it coming! Fantastic and decentralised aren't the first things that spring to mind. Oh, not you  You've turned into a brainless blockstream antagonist as well? What exactly is so hard to understand about the main chain not being able to accommodate certain use cases? These companies' operations were already heavily centralized and their customers funds' administered under a single database. Blockstream proposes a solution to an industry demand for better liquidity and does so by distributing the trust amongst participants so as to eliminate single points of failure. For very obvious reasons these transactions would've never hit the main chain anyway. Liquid provides institutions & their customers better privacy, increased inter-operability as well as improved security & liquidity. A win/win for exchanges & users |
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This effectively is a step toward decentralization of exchange services and better consumer protection.
A fantastic contribution to the community by Blockstream. In any other context this would have been looked at as a home run of ingenuity and technical abilities but sadly trolls with no morals persist in their foul manners and attack some of the most productive individuals in this space.
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It's not a service, it's greed.
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It already happened!http://www.coindesk.com/blockstream-commercial-sidechain-bitcoin-exchanges/Blockstream really needed to prevent BigBlocks - and successfully did. Now, there is greater need for their offering: side chains. Side chains which they control, and they charge fees to use. This is just the start. There will be many, many more features of 'advanced systems' pushed out of the core, pushed away from 'free', and controlled by profiteers. Why did everyone listen to Blockstream when they so vigorously fought 8MB? now everyone gets to pay them fees!!! With 8MB blocks, no extra fees! Bitcoin is fucked now. With 8mb blocks = less and less people can deal with nodes and aren't able to run their own nodes = Bitcoin is fucked. Sorry to burst your bubble but resources are limited, and a fee market seems like the only way to go about this unless you want to raise the block size until becomes centralized and only private organizations are able to afford nodes just like now only private organizations are doing mining. We can't afford centralizing mining and nodes, and Lightning Networks seems like the best approach thus far. It was intended to work like that from the beginning. You don't run your own email server, your own IRC server or your own bittorrent tracker and that doesn't mean they are centralized. Bitcoin development as been hijacked by a company and companies only serve themselves... There is no use running your own email, IRC or bitorrent tracker as there is no trust requirement. Unless you run your own node you depend on an authority to validate the authenticity of the coins you receive. |
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This looks very promising. I like that you can get in and out without fees, and only a 0.5% fee on trades. However, I see that they do not process EFT deposits right now. "Our apologies, EFT Funding is temporarily unavailable. To access additional account funding options, please contact our support team. " +2 for fund your account with gold within 48hrs though! And withdraw in gold for 5% fee, interesting. What bank are you using? I could do any, RBC TD BMO I'm not sure what other banks support it but I can do Interac transfers straight out of my Desjardins account to Quadriga and I only get charged the 1$ bank fee. Transfer is usually processed within 24 hours (sometimes only a couple hours). |
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Then again, how exactly is status quo an irrational stance?
It depends on how you define the status-quo. I would define it as we currently have more than ample space in a block for genuine transactions. I'd like to keep it that way. We also have a valuable limit used to avoid spam filling up blocks, I'd also like to keep it that way. |
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