I don't even see any point in buying new hardware at this stage. Even at $100, a 5830 will take you about a month and a half to pay off. That's OC'ed too, running 24/7. These sold quick back when you could pay them off in weeks .
Actually, it's 66 days for a $100 5830 -- even with a decent electric rate (8.8 cents) and proportional mining (=greater return than Deepbit PPS) That's with a hashrate of 270, which is a target easier to hit. If you want to go with 300 MH/s, simply subtract 10% from the payoff period -- still 60 days, not 45. What's wrong with 60 day pay off? so after 60 days I would have made back the cost of the card, and still have the card that I can sell for 80% of the cost. So basically I've been making money since day 12. That's insanely good and I don't think any other investment can match the performance. i don't see the point in buying a 5830 other than for mining. It's a great gaming card too for the money. |
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I don't even see any point in buying new hardware at this stage. Even at $100, a 5830 will take you about a month and a half to pay off. That's OC'ed too, running 24/7. These sold quick back when you could pay them off in weeks .
Actually, it's 66 days for a $100 5830 -- even with a decent electric rate (8.8 cents) and proportional mining (=greater return than Deepbit PPS) That's with a hashrate of 270, which is a target easier to hit. If you want to go with 300 MH/s, simply subtract 10% from the payoff period -- still 60 days, not 45. What's wrong with 60 day pay off? so after 60 days I would have made back the cost of the card, and still have the card that I can sell for 80% of the cost. So basically I've been making money since day 12. That's insanely good and I don't think any other investment can match the performance. |
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Thanks, you said it better than me. Basically almost everything that happens in this world has a "motive" or "incentive" behind it. For a scammer to spend the time to write up the sale, risk being caught, and also might have to spend some time develop a seemingly reputable account, and then after all that get ZERO profit, the scammer has to be a extremely stupid scammer that likes to waste time. (Full disclosure, I am biased here. I run a donation based escrow. But I believe my arguments are sound.) There is no risk to the scammer by using donation escrow or not using it - either way they won't get the money, but if they do use it, at the very least they can use it to fuck you so you don't get your money back in the event of a default. On top of that, they can also be used as a harassment tool even if someone isn't a scammer in the sense of them trying to take your money.
There's no risk to a scammer without a donation escrow anyway, since pretty much by definition they have nothing to lose. What the escrow service does is remove the incentive to scam somebody, not remove the non-existant risk to the scammer. The scammer has no reason to invest time setting up a con because the net return is a negative. They use a resource, their time, and if there's no possible way to profit, they've lost out. Hence they'll move on to the next potential victim, or try to pester you into not using escrow for some BS reason, and give up when you refuse to budge. Yes the donation system isn't perfect. But a perfect system is expensive. Real world analogy. Sometimes I mail something out that's 25 or 50 bucks. I don't spend the money on insurance because it's too much from my perspective. If I was mailing something that cost $500, then I buy the insurance right at the post office. If I'm mailing a Picasso painting, I need to get insurance from Lloyd's of London and hire a private courier to deliver the goods. Similarly, I buy a .25 BTC bumper sticker, I'll just take the chance on a loss. If I spend 5-10 BTC for something, I want some lightweight protection, but don't want to pay a lot, because it adds up, so I use a donation escrow. If I spend 100 BTC on a new laptop, then maybe I'll look into a full-service escrow. An escrow service requires an arbitration process. Any escrow service without an arbitration process is nothing more than "Hey Bob, will you hold my wad of cash for a few days?" And you don't know Bob. And Bob might give your money to the Red Cross if the seller tells him to.
No. The person who gives the cash to Bob determines if it goes to the Red Cross. The more comparable scenario is giving money to Bob, and saying, "If you don't here from me in a few days, burn that money, flush it down the toilet, but whatever you do, don't give it to that jackass." The seller can not force a charity release and somehow steal my money. If buyer is an actual scammer, they won't put the money into escrow in the first place, because they can't get it back. Once again, the incentive to scam is removed, because it becomes impossible to profit. Yes, conceivably a person could just not release the money after you've sent them, but what incentive to they have to do so? The number of people who would just do that to be an a-hole are far less than the number of scammers out there. Also, if the deal falls apart for legitimate reasons, and both people are on the same side, you can recover your bitcoins safely. This is covered in my FAQ. As far as feedback/ratings go, there's already a site, it's called HEATWARE. I use it on here as well as other forums. It should be the standard for here, just like it is at so many other For Sale forums around the world.
I don't understand how a donation based escrow could be used as a harassment tool. The only thing I could think is that someone can keep on bugging you to release the coins. But they could do the same thing without the escrow service, by bugging you to send coins. Could you elaborate? |
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No, actually in my experience, donation escrow is perfect. With arbitration type escrow, the buyer can choose to screw the seller and claim the item is no good, and get money back. Also, for digital goods, there's no way for seller to prove he has delivered the item. Also fraudulent sellers can just ship empty box to the buyer with tracking number to fool arbitration (I have seen this fraud on ebay/paypal many times, but ebay has a reputation system to keep this low). Basically, if there's arbitration, there will be incentive for both buyer and seller to get creative and screw over the other guy. With donation escrow, there is no such thing. Seller has zero incentive to screw over the buyer as if the buyer is unhappy, seller does not get any money. Buyer also has zero incentive to screw over the seller, as buyer not getting money back either way, and he'd be really stupid to intentionally piss off someone that knows his name and address. Do NOT use donation escrow services. These are the stupidest idea I've ever seen implemented in an escrow service.
Escrow is meant to protect both parties. An escrow service that protects only one party is effectively not really an escrow service, and an "escrow" service that sends the money to a "donation" in the event of a default is just asking for all sorts of trouble. I would never, ever, ever agree to a donation escrow as a buyer. Donation escrows are only harmful to the process, they do not provide any benefit. There is no risk to the scammer by using donation escrow or not using it - either way they won't get the money, but if they do use it, at the very least they can use it to fuck you so you don't get your money back in the event of a default. On top of that, they can also be used as a harassment tool even if someone isn't a scammer in the sense of them trying to take your money.
An escrow service requires an arbitration process. Any escrow service without an arbitration process is nothing more than "Hey Bob, will you hold my wad of cash for a few days?" And you don't know Bob. And Bob might give your money to the Red Cross if the seller tells him to.
As far as feedback/ratings go, there's already a site, it's called HEATWARE. I use it on here as well as other forums. It should be the standard for here, just like it is at so many other For Sale forums around the world.
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BTC was invented by Satoshi to provide an alternative to a devaluing currency called the ...
Satoshi mostly wanted to provide a private and secure currency that were p2p, decentralized and can't be controlled. He didn't really care about value. Bitcoins can have huge inflations as we saw recently, in early June, I was able to buy a HD6990 with 25 BTC, now I must pay like 60 BTC for it. |
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Why no one used escrow? I sold a ton of 5830s here, and as a seller I always said I will accept escrow, even though my forum post count, customer feedback posts and registration date would've allowed me to not take escrow.
Demand escrow acceptance from your sellers!!!
I'm going to look into this escrow thing. I will use it if I go to sell something which I am planning to do once I mine a few more BTC's to cover mail cost coverage for any items that get shipped. Escrow is mostly for buyer protection, and I always offer it because it let's my buyer know they are protected. As a buyer they have no reason to screw over the seller (me), because buyers are not getting any money back from escrow regardless what happens (sellers should always demand donation type escrow). Buyer would not intentionally screw over the seller, because seller knows their address and why piss off someone that knows your name and address for no reason? |
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Why no one used escrow? Be a pretty stupid scammer that agreed to use escrow, eh? That's what I'm saying, all buyers should just demand escrow for transactions more than 1 BTC, scammers will be all gone from here. |
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Why no one used escrow? I sold a ton of 5830s here, and as a seller I always said I will accept escrow, even though my forum post count, customer feedback posts and registration date would've allowed me to not take escrow.
Demand escrow acceptance from your sellers!!!
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Tradehill has been great. Volume isn't a big problem unless you are a huge trader that likes to trade in big blocks.
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Fan speed should be kept as low as possible. On the other hand, GPU don't really care about heat until it's over the threshold (somewhere around 108C)
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Used keyboard... eww that's fucking nasty |
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Miners must sell regularly because they have expenses in the form of electricity and new equipment to purchase. It isn't wise to sell all BTC though, as next year the reward for block generation will drop to 25, which means a lot less BTC will be introduced into the market. I expect the price to jump really quick when that happens.
Not next year, it's 2013 |
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Hi clondeone, I'll take it off your hands for $1300. PM me if you want to sell.
this kind of offer is not even a lowball, it's straight up insulting. unless it's just a typo and you meant to say $2300 instead of $1300 No I think trying to sell a used machine for full retail price is insulting. That $1300 offer is not low ball, it sounds about right. People here and on eBay are not idiot, I bet he will never sell his machine on ebay at $2100. We'll see. Btw he listed the item as "New in box", but it's in fact a months old machine that has been used for mining (supposedly not over clocked). |
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wow 1300 MH for $2100?
my $1000 5x5830 rig mine at 1200 MH.... not overclocked
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ONLY if you have free electricity. An idle laptop use a lot less power than a 100% usage laptop.
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I received a bunch of activation codes when I bought a few GPU to mine, the codes are for a copy of Battlefield Bad Company 2 + BC2:Vietnam
for use with EA's Origin system (not steam). Regular price is $33
Will sell code for 1 BTC.
I am a long time forum user with good customer feedback record, (search for my previous posts on the forum selling 5830s etc..)
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nothing wrong with it, speculators provide liquidity
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One of the major complaints about bitcoin is transactions are not confirmed instantly, and if I'm correct, this is due to only roughly 6 blocks are generated per hour, so roughly 10 minutes per block. I was wondering why 6 blocks? why not 600 blocks per hour? so transactions are confirmed almost instantly. Just reduce the reward per block accordingly.
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