there is a lot of beautiful boxes...  26 minirig cases... 39 TH/s!  |
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I'll be honest and say that this seems quite overpriced IMO. If I wanted to print out a 1 lb object (about 0.5kg), it'd cost me 300 shares. 300 shares @ 0.04 BTC ea = 12 BTC, or about $190. Worse, I'm giving you an interest free loan for the entire period until I actually want to use my shares for a printout.
OTOH, if I go to Shapeways, I can print things starting at about $10.00, with most models in the neighborhood of $20.00 - $50.00.
Buying shares in this printer doesn't designate actual ownership in anything - it is only an overpriced preorder for 3D printing services down the road.
I think it's a neat idea, but you should offer 3D printing services for BTC rather than giving people a false sense of ownership in a 3D printer. Or, if you want to give them partial ownership, then create a business plan around making pieces for other people, and offer shareholders some of the profit.
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I'd add to my holdings, in a second.
The future isn't the dollar valuation of bitcoin - it is merely possessing bitcoin that will be key.
I agree. I don't see why price should indicate whether or not bitcoin has succeeded. Because Bitcoin is only successful if lots of people value it, and lots of people valuing it will be reflected in the price. |
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Oh, I didn't realize anyone thought this was a REAL die picture! I thought it was understood from the start that it was just a drawing/CAD file of some sort. Yeah, no argument on that from me! They don't have the chips yet, how could they expect to take a picture of one?
I thought the picture was pretty obvious from a glance. Indeed... People said "This isn't a die," and by that, I thought they meant it wasn't a die (drawing or not), not that it wasn't a real picture of a die. Didn't Josh dedicate a line or two depicting the image? I now can't seem to find what I thought I read. I even vaguely remember him linking to the image on BFL's forum, that's why I'm now taken aback to see the image sans the link. Please correct me if I'm mistaken. Yeah, I seem to remember him saying something about the image as well. Just re-read the original status update, and it's not in there (though that is where the picture was originally posted)... Hmmm... https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status.html |
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You all are behind the game! I've been mining on AMD ASICs for over a year now!
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Oh, I didn't realize anyone thought this was a REAL die picture! I thought it was understood from the start that it was just a drawing/CAD file of some sort. Yeah, no argument on that from me! They don't have the chips yet, how could they expect to take a picture of one?
I thought the picture was pretty obvious from a glance. Indeed... People said "This isn't a die," and by that, I thought they meant it wasn't a die (drawing or not), not that it wasn't a real picture of a die. |
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Micon, I'll bet 20 BTC 1:1 that BFL delivers a working ASIC product to multiple end customers (i.e., people who are able to post pictures or other proof of their ASICs running) by the end of 2013.
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Oh, I didn't realize anyone thought this was a REAL die picture! I thought it was understood from the start that it was just a drawing/CAD file of some sort. Yeah, no argument on that from me! They don't have the chips yet, how could they expect to take a picture of one?
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Becoin, does the fact that NO ONE HERE and NO ONE IN A COURT OF LAW agrees with you not mean anything to you?
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If I made a machine, that 'you' paid me to build, that can make me millions of dollars with the only effort needed is plugging in a machine and letting it do its thing, while claiming its not ready yet, I would be stupid not to.
And I think any company is stupid not to.
If you think that the ASIC companies wont turn the machines on, to put it blunt, you're an idiot.
Why would you sell a bank before you made money?
Why would you ship a product that you MADE profit on, but would make more profit in 2 weeks turning it on than you made shipping it?
Honestly a better approach would be refund everyone's money +10% interest, that's what I would do.
It would take them 7-8 months to make the same amount of money as everyone's preorders. Obviously, everyone would cancel their orders by then, and they would have a net gain of zero vs conducting themselves as a legitimate company. And that's only if Bitcoin price held (which it would likely not once people figured out what they were doing). How many times does this have to be rehashed? 7-8 months to make as much as the pre-orders, but not 7-8 months to purchase the machine itself at their price. What's your point? |
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The only reasonable conclusion is, despite claiming that BFL is a 100% scam, he doesn't truly believe it.
I believe BFL is only a 49% scam as of now. I only lost 49% of the bitcoins I paid for an ASIC. The more you hesitate for a refund the more you lose! It might take a while until it becomes a 99% scam. But some people will still be happy for it is not a 100%?! Take it to a courtroom. @ PG - Yes, that is BFL's claimed 65nm ASIC chip. |
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I'm not sure I understand this thread, is this hypothetical, wouldn't it be neat if it were true kinda stuff, or is this suggesting AMD might actually be considering this? Because they're not. Just like everyone shaking in their boots that "AMD makes AMD cards, so they could take over the bitcoin network!" were wrong, and the people who suggested that "AMD make a bitcoin based GPU" were silly, they're not going to make a bitcoin ASIC.
All the old usual reasons apply, the market is pathetic, volatile, uncertain as to longevity, and in general a horrible risk for any company of semi-reasonable size. While $5million probably seems like a lot to us chump-change miners, it's more like what AMD spends on toilet paper. I see that AMD put in a mention of mining, right alongside folding, in their GPU highlights. Meaning they equate the two hobbyist projects the same, though I see no evidence that they actually did anything mining or folding specific, just that bigger faster cards do both better.
If this is just a exercise the imagination thread though, I apologize, and it would be neat.
Yep, just an exercise the imagination thread.  |
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If I made a machine, that 'you' paid me to build, that can make me millions of dollars with the only effort needed is plugging in a machine and letting it do its thing, while claiming its not ready yet, I would be stupid not to.
And I think any company is stupid not to.
If you think that the ASIC companies wont turn the machines on, to put it blunt, you're an idiot.
Why would you sell a bank before you made money?
Why would you ship a product that you MADE profit on, but would make more profit in 2 weeks turning it on than you made shipping it?
Honestly a better approach would be refund everyone's money +10% interest, that's what I would do.
It would take them 7-8 months to make the same amount of money as everyone's preorders. Obviously, everyone would cancel their orders by then, and they would have a net gain of zero vs conducting themselves as a legitimate company. And that's only if Bitcoin price held (which it would likely not once people figured out what they were doing). How many times does this have to be rehashed? |
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Still waiting for you to take me up on my bet.
20 BTC says BFL ships a working ASIC product to multiple end customer by the end of 2013.
Translation: I want to make money off of anything possible. Bet me! Bet me! LOL! Sure, why not? If Micon believes that BFL is a 100% scam, he should have no problem taking me up on this bet. The only reasonable conclusion is, despite claiming that BFL is a 100% scam, he doesn't truly believe it. |
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I'll just say that I consider the issue resolved between Matthew and I, but if he does offer monetary retribution to some, he should offer the same retribution to all at the same percentage.
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Please do tell more. How is it not a die picture? What controlling infrastructure should we be looking for? Now If I do that... how can we ask questions about the answers we get back, without some plausible bullshit answer being formulated... I'm not sure that is something that could be determined prior to the circumstance actually happening. |
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Please do tell more. How is it not a die picture? What controlling infrastructure should we be looking for? |
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Still waiting for you to take me up on my bet.
20 BTC says BFL ships a working ASIC product to multiple end customer by the end of 2013.
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Now if you want BTC back it has to be in USD amount you paid. I have never paid USD to BFL. That is technically impossible to pay USD to the bitcoin address they have specified on their invoice during the checkout process. They wanted me pay EXACT amount in bitcoins to EXACT bitcoin address. I have absolutely no control in what they do after they get my bitcoins. Why is that so fuckin difficult to uderstand? Take it to a courtroom. |
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However, the shareholders of ASICMINER are always in a better place
Props for the decency to present it as an equity deal from day one, rather than calling stock subscription "preorders" like everyone else. I thought this was because the shareholders are actual shareholders in Avalon? With BFL, the preorders are just that - preorders. typo? actual shareholders in ASICMINER (because this is the ASICMINER thread) Typo! Whoops, will go correct my post. |
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