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2101  Economy / Goods / Re: [9/20][GROUP BUY #2] Casascius 1oz Silver Physical Bitcoin Rounds (2013) on: July 27, 2013, 12:04:00 AM
i want one

But you only like "cheap coins", adam!
2102  Economy / Securities / Re: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread on: July 26, 2013, 02:51:25 PM
Oh, and be aware of the many scam option prices that are there to catch you out.....count the 0's carefully, and do it again before purchasing.
2103  Economy / Securities / Re: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread on: July 26, 2013, 02:49:03 PM
stock noob question:
Can anyone explain, in a few sentences and plain english, PUT and CALL options?

Cant explain it better than Bitfunder......

 BitFunder options are best thought of literally as the 'Option' to buy or sell shares in the future for a guaranteed price set today.
Users can post or 'write' options for people to buy or sell shares from them anytime within a set period of time for a flat one time fee.

For instance, I could post/'write' the option for someone to buy 100 shares of FIAT.USD from me at 0.025 BTC per share as long as it is within a week from today.
Someone can browse the listings, like my price and time frame, and purchase the option paying me a fee such as 0.1 BTC one time for the option.
Now my 100 shares are locked in reserve until the expire time comes, or I cancel unsold amounts.
Depending on the option type, if someone buys it, my BTC or shares must remain on reserve until 'executed' or the option expires.

Anytime during this one week period, the persion who bought my option may 'execute' that it and pay me 0.025 BTC for up to each of my 100 shares of FIAT.USD.

This is ideal if the price per share has gone up over 0.025 BTC recently. People can also use options to cover their losses by buying options to sell shares
at a specific price so that if the market falls out, they do not lose as much since they have a promised price they can safely trade the shares at.
You are literally buying or selling the option to trade X amount of shares at Y price before the option expires.

How to Start buying options:

    First you want to decide what you are wanting to do. Do you think the price per share of an asset will be going up or down?
    If you think the price will go down soon, then you will want to buy PUT options. If you think the price will be going up, you will want to buy CALL options.
    Once you have selected which option type you are interested in, you can sort the proper listing. The 'strike price' is the price that you will be able to buy or sell shares at if you 'execute' the option. You do not pay this right now. This is the guaranteed price you can buy/sell the shares for at the later time.
    The 'option price' is the price you pay now per share for the option to buy or sell shares before the expiration time.
    Once you are done sorting through the list and have picked out an option that best fits your thoughts and at an agreeable price, just click on the 'Buy' button.
    A window will appear in the middle of the screen. (Make sure you have javascript enabled, and if you use NoScript, be sure that BitFunder is allowed!)
    The left side of the window will give you a breakdown and a detailed explanation of the option you are looking to purchase.
    On the left hand side you will see if the option is 'breakable' or not. This lets you know if you have to buy the entire amount, or if you can break it up.
    If the option is breakble, the amount field will be enabled and you can write in how many shares you want. (You MUST to use whole round numbers.)
    The right hand side gives you the oppertunity, (if available) to choose how many shares you want to buy from the option.
    The right hand-bottom box gives you a general idea of what would happen if you 'executed' the option at a later date.
    Now all you have to do is purchase the option. The page will change and a notice will let you know if your purchase went through or not.


Note: Options can dissapear pretty quick, so don't stop to think on it too long!

Frequently Asked Questions

Q: What is the difference between the 'price' or 'option price' and the 'strike price'?
A: The 'price' or 'option price' is how much you pay for the option up front to be able to execute the deal at the 'strike price' per share during the timeframe.

Q: What is the difference between buying a 'PUT' and a 'CALL'?
A: 'CALL' means you are buying the option to purchase X shares at Y price at any time before the expiry, where a 'PUT' means you can sell X shares at Y price anytime before the expiry.

Q: So if I have see a 'strike price' of 0.2 BTC, and an 'option price' of 0.001 BTC for 10 shares, what do I pay when?
A: If you buy the option for all 10 shares, you would pay 10(amount) * 0.001(Option Price) = 0.01 BTC up front for the option. Then if you choose to execute the option before it expires, you would then pay 10(amount) * 0.2(Strike Price) = 2 BTC.

Q: How do I know the option writer can cover my option?
A: All option writers must have the funds or shares available at time of posting/'writing' and be reserved for this purpose.

Q: What happens if I don't execute an option? Are there fees or penalties?
A: The only thing you loose is the original amount you paid to purchase the option.

Q: If I execute an option, will it show as a market trade?
A: Due to the fact that options may execute at prices outside current market price, we do not post executed option trades.

Q: If I execute an option, will it show in my trade history?
A: Yes.

Q: I am trying to buy an option, and it will not let me change the amount.
A: Look on the left side of the option details, it is probably not breakable. If it is, then check that BitFunder is allowed for javascript.

Q: What is a 'breakable' option?
A: The original writer of an option can set it to be 'breakable' or not. This determines if you can purchase the option for a partial amount or if you must purchase the whole amount.

Q: When I am trying to purchase options, I occasionally get told that the option is no longer available or cannot be found.
A: Someone bought it before you, or the option writer canceled it.

Q: Can I rewrite an option?
A: Yes. A rewritten option must be set for a strike price at least 1% higher/lower of the original strike price depending on if it is a 'CALL' or 'PUT'. The expire date will be inherited from the parent option.

Q: Why do I get 'Invalid Strike Price' when rewriting an option?
A: The Strike price must be able to cover the original strike price and possibly a trade fee. We will not allow you to take a loss.

Q: If I rewrite an option, can I change the expire date?
A: No. Rewritten options must maintain the same expiration as the original.

Q: How many times can an option be recursively rewritten?
A: To infinity, and beyond!

Q: What kind of quantity restrictions are there?
A: Option share amounts must be for whole numbers with a minimal of 1.

Q: What are the fees to trade options?
A: There is a 10% fee on the purchase of the actual option itself.

Q: What is the fee to execute the option?
A: Normal trade fee based on your fee tier. If you execute a 'CALL' there is no trade since you are buying shares. 'PUT' options sell shares so you pay a normal trade fee.
2104  Economy / Securities / Re: [BTC-TC and BF] MININGCO.ETF - Mining Company ETF on: July 25, 2013, 08:29:37 PM
MININGCO shares are selling for less than NAV on btct.co.   Embarrassed
Shares are being offered for 0.2 less than NAV on Bitfunder, and still not selling.   Undecided

How about doing a 1:10 split so shareholders are not stuck in this fund, and may more easily liquidate/reinvest dividends?

At the moment, it's kind of a roach motel for BTC despite having amazing assets, unlimited potential, and superb management.   Tongue

I support some type of split, there is no liquidity at all currently with the increase in NAV and the rise in BTC value

My sentiments also. Its really time to split.
2105  Economy / Exchanges / Re: MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering] on: July 24, 2013, 10:31:35 AM


I will second those wow's.

Big news regarding Gox soon, i would have thought.
2106  Economy / Securities / Re: The coming flash crash in AMC on: July 23, 2013, 03:43:44 PM
There was a sell off on Bitfunder during the BTC-TC trading freeze, by someone who was looking to cash in a decent amount of shares. Investors getting spooked is the most likely answer.

I was thinking, a stolen laptop with access to running passwords/sites and a knowledge of Bitcoin, or a jealous girlfriend trying to gain some attention, while he is in the shower!
2107  Economy / Securities / Re: The coming flash crash in AMC on: July 23, 2013, 03:17:43 PM
How come it didn't happen for any other security?

Lots of self-denial here.

Oh, the irony!
2108  Economy / Securities / Re: ActiveMining Overview and Speculation Thread on: July 22, 2013, 06:21:55 PM
Would anyone be interested in writing some AM/ AMC Puts for .002 or .0025, something like 30-60 days?

I can come back with some fair price calculations.

How many, and what fee was you thinking?
2109  Economy / Securities / Re: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread on: July 20, 2013, 04:06:25 PM
Thought you guys might be interested in this; after talking with Ken yesterday I'm now busy creating what will hopefully be the new logo for VMC. I'm working on several different designs which I'll be presenting to him in a few days time, but for now here's a little preview of one of them:




Now THIS is very exciting.

Keep up the good work!

Who else thought 'Enron' when they saw that box?
2110  Economy / Securities / Re: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread on: July 20, 2013, 11:43:45 AM
But there is no sell order placed ,check history tab of AMC-PT on BTCT   Huh

Ive checked and double checked, and all i can make out is that people are competing at that price, and the order was added while you refreshed.

2111  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: July 18, 2013, 10:03:02 AM
Is there any bad news I missed?

No, just the bull trap closing.

so what is this satoshi dice thing people keep mentioning? I mean how could it affect the price?

well SD being sold for 150+ btc people are anticipating the future dump from Eric (He wont prob dump them all but I'm sure he is gonna dump a part of it Smiley )


pff. it's not like he doesn't have some "other" bitcoins he would use to dump before the news, is it.

A huge buy order just went through BTC-TC for ASICMINER.......
http://www.coinflow.co/chart/ASICMINER-PT

Maybe re-investment has started already.  Undecided
2112  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: July 18, 2013, 08:50:04 AM
Like Blitz said, if you're not having fun, what's the point?  Cheesy


We are going down all day long gentlemen.  Tongue

Said the escort to the football team.

 Grin
2113  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] BTCINVEST - Low risk investment fund | Market cap: 2000+ BTC on: July 17, 2013, 02:43:26 PM
hi,

i am a small shareholder.

is AM aka amc/vmc considered as part of portfolio in future ?

Oh, TF is going to have fun answering you!  Grin
2114  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: July 16, 2013, 10:57:51 PM
There was a discussion earlier about the ASIC race. This will set new levels, i think.....
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252531.msg2744376#msg2744376
2115  Economy / Securities / Re: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread on: July 16, 2013, 10:52:59 PM
Show one working, and your children will inherit THE farm!
2116  Economy / Securities / Re: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: July 16, 2013, 06:05:44 PM
okay kslaughter, don't be greedy, bitcoin's exchange rate has appreciated again, drop the bid wall again to reflect that

This has already been discussed, the ask wall will be removed entirely, soon.

great thanks, this wall is only on BTCT.co currently?  It isn't on AMC-PT on Bitfunder, nor ActiveMining on Bitfunder

There is a small wall on BF ActiveMining at 0.0025

...and since 1 or 2 days there are some people who dont want the price going up to 0.0025 on BF it seems. The wall between 0.0021 and 0.0022 ist filled up every few hours again.

Spot on. If I were a rival company feeling threatened by upcoming competition from ActM, I'd want to slow down ActM's ability to raise capital by placing lots of sell orders below 0.0025. If you watch the behaviour closely, it's the obvious explanation. Most flippers keen to take an early profit on shares bought at 0.0005 - 0.001 have already done so, which leaves the manipulators as the only sellers. The news from ActM is better each day, so there isn't really a sensible reason to be selling at this point.

+1

No. Those ask walls are being lowered every time and people are buying into them, not selling because of them. Why would someone buy shares of a company that they wanted to fail in the first place. If you dont plant the weed in the first place you won't need to cut it down later.

Sure there are people buying into the Asks, because they see a good investment. The sellers are stopping the buyers from eating into Ken's 0.0025 wall, that is all they need be concerned with if their objective is to hobble ActM's ability to raise capital. It is quite easy to obtain shares off market if you have the BTC, and you will happily sell at a loss if your sole objective is to slow down a competitor.

The wall was originally at .0024 to .024999. It has come down to .002-.0022. This is good for us, Ken and new investors. Bad for sellers.

But isn't Ken selling at 0.0025? We want people to buy his shares so the money goes to ActM so we can get things moving. Yes, it is good for a new investor to be buying in at sub 0.0025, but in the medium to long term they would be better served to buy at 0.0025 so the NRE is covered asap.

On this one, you might want to approach whats happening again lewicki.  Smiley There is no rational trading reason why there has been so much size on the ask, when it quite obviously wants to rise. It peaked 2 days ago to 640K shares to .0025 (AM/Bitfunder) Currently its 273K, so its subsiding, helped by the fact that there are three markets the competitors have to cover.
 
Then again, Ken is entitled to put the orders where he sees fit also.

In any event, its going to get interesting. 
2117  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: July 16, 2013, 05:32:56 PM
Even the major betting houses are offering bitcoin price speculation... http://www.paddypower.com/bet/novelty-betting/current-affairs/bitcoin-betting

OT but, I thought the Julian Assange 'How will he leave the Ecuadorian Embassy?', had a funny option....by Jetpack - 500/1   Undecided
2118  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: July 16, 2013, 10:02:49 AM
ATM everything is proceeding as expected.

Big bounce from the 200 day EMA, and then a longish period of "wait and see" (I said that as long as two weeks of sideways trading was expected, just as we had before the fast crash to $66).

Fiat in the order book increasing, coins decreasing. An important milestone will be the shipping of ASIC miners en mass. ATM they are just a few, and they still enjoy good profits. No need to dump all the coins on the market. That will change soon.



This is an interesting point I've been wondering about lately. I also believe they mentioned this on "Let's Talk Bitcoin" in the last week. What is going to happen with so many new mining rigs getting out there? The GPU miners will all off, almost there now.

I do wonder though, how many of these miners are just going to sit on their mined coins. The thing is, if many expect a downward movement in the price, then why not sell some while you can???
And what about all those coins already mined? Hmmmmm

Personally, I would probably sit on the coins, unless I was desperate for cash. Something about "owning" coins I've mined.

I'm a miner myself, and people in here doesn't not understand what a deep change in the game are ASICs. With GPUs, you could buy a $500 set-up and mine to hoard, as the investment was negligible and you could always sell your GPUs to gamers, "recouping your costs" was no big deal and no priority, it was a hobbyist occupation for 95% of the miners.

Now, the only purpose of those $2k, $4k, $7k ASIC rigs is to mine Bitcoin, and maaaany people didn't throw at those machines only "play money". Professional operations with the only purpose of generating PROFIT are being build up. Yes, many are still Bitcoin believers so they will hoard, but after they paid for their costs. And their aggregate costs are huge. BFL has millions of $ in preorders not shipped yet. KnC has millions of $ in preorders, there are millions of $ in Avalon chips, Bitfury machines and whatnot...

Now the very few ASIC miners (mostly Avalon miners, they are just a few hundred individuals) have enjoyed very healthy profits. They paid for their machines in a few days, with a few coins. But the profitability is declining VERY HARD, so more coins will have to be sold by the miners to recoup their hardware costs, which are denominated in FIAT.

Many seem to hide their heads in the ground, but the hard fact is that 10s of millions of $ have been invested in machines which only use is to mine BTC, and those 10s of millions of $ in mining rigs are a cost that miners are willing to recoup ASAP.

Some in here say "well, the BTC/USD will be higher, and miners will have to sell less coins to recover their costs". That's a logical fallacy, because the higher is going to be the BTC/USD, the more people will invest in mining hardware, making the amount of generated coins more distributed and in fewer quantity per individual miner/operation, thus the 3,600BTC generated per day will be probably dumped almost immediately, at least during the next few months, until the mining gold-rush is over and stabilizes, and the miners that are entering the ASIC game pay for their investment.


Agree with the thrust of what will probably pan out. However, there is no account for the fact that the new ASIC players/miners are increasingly made up of shareholding companies that will be re/distributing those accumulated btc into dividends, that will be disseminated to thousands of shareholders.

Its the re-distribution thats key here, not the amounts, per-say.
2119  Economy / Securities / Re: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread on: July 15, 2013, 05:15:01 PM
Quote
Sure. If you buy AMC-PT they will be tendered automatically by btct.co once ACTIVEMINING is approved, without any effort on your part. Also, buying them there from the big ask wall @0.0025 means your coin goes directly to ActiveMining's balance, not to someone else.

When I need a good laugh, I check this thread.


Yeah it's kind of like following the scam accusations numerous people have labeled you with, always good for a laugh.

'Arrogant one-line-wonder', was a line someone said about TF once. I laughed.
2120  Economy / Securities / Re: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread on: July 15, 2013, 07:58:47 AM
Who else is looking at the way those ask orders are stacked, especially the ones after .00250, and thinking, hmmmm?

Tactics yes, but not sure its trading tactics.

I thought the same thing, looks a though someone is intentionally trying to keep the price down

Seems someone is flushing weak hands down to get more shares at a discount rate.

Maybe, but i would have thought that phase would have happened already. Also, note how the activity around .00025 on AMC and BTC-TC was perfectly acceptable, where AM (Bitfunder) has been shut out of trading .00025, because of those large and CONTRIVED orders. If you ever wanted to see coordinated manipulation, that's it right there.

Agenda. what agenda!?
 
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