Indeed, in an actual scheme you HAVE TO bring other people for you to be able to cash out, once you give them your money, there is no way out but that.

dohh is just badmouthing Bitcoin who knows why...

Bitcoin doesn't care what others are willing to pay for it, that has nothing to do with Bitcoin, its out of code and its not its business. The market is giving it a price, if you don't agree then don't buy it, simple. If the others want to buy it its their problem. Nobody is promising anything. You can spend the rest of your life thinking its just a bubble "waiting to pop", but that is your problem.

Bitcoin has the value it has because its useful to others, if it wasn't useful nobody would want it. People do not buy bitcoin to be rich overnight, that is long in the past, as i said, the minority that trusted it back when nobody else did. Its their prize for investing early.

Now we ended up with a digital secure coin, which was the intention the first place. So everything went according to plan, no matter what price it ends in. And yes, it will keep going up, albeit slower as time passes and it reaches maturity. Because its deflationary currency, it has a limited production written in code, so it doesn't suffer from the inherent inflation of fiat and centralized currencies.

The fact that its slowing down means its getting mature. It has a very solid base. dohh must have been waiting a decade for it to fail, well see you in 2030. I dare you quote this in 10 years.

I don't think this is going to get too far. The likes of Google and Facebook used (the same) decentralized Instant Messenger (open source) protocol (XMPP) at first, but the first thing they did was not let it connect to the rest of the world (centralize it), thus ruining its first advantage. Later Google got rid it entirely for something theirs.

Even if twitter honestly develops and use an open decentralized standard, the others would likely not follow. Since my twitter account is probably gone, due to the new 6 month inactivity = delete, i would like to open an account elsewhere that still would be possible to follow by twitter users (and vice versa).

The other likely result is, of course, Goggle will jump in with their "even better" standard. So its like that xkcd comic...


Of course this is the right attitude, if a bit late... Hope something useful comes out from it.

Did you try this? rig-stats

I also know someone using Zabbix with custom scripts for S9s

You can also use a virtual machine, Virtualbox or similar, install a minimal windows to only run your favorite app and nothing else.

To make it work with wine you would need to find out what this program is expecting. Maybe you could get some help from the developer. There are many things in wine that don't work out of the box, but with a simple winetricks command you just add the component its expecting and then it works (ie: .NET, Visual C++, etc).

Since there is no entry for "Awesome Miner" in the wine app database. this means you would need to find out by yourself (and make a new entry). Since this is a paid program ideally it should have a proper Linux port, but i guess there is no demand and Linux users use something else.

You could try asking in the Awesome Miner thread to see if anyone is using it with wine and ask what components it needs.

Was. It no longer works for that. It does keep the value, and even keep adding a bit purchasing power overtime, but never like in the past were you could actually live of it.

Those who trusted bitcoin in the very beginning, and did not spend it, can simply retire from all the money they have already made. Those of us who came too late, will never be able to do it. We can put our savings into bitcoin, and that would at least preserve them from inflation, but that's about it. Bitcoin entered the stage where it is more coin and less "investment". A little like buying gold.

Just imagine those that bought at like 10$ even if they sold today at 7000$, probably more if they keep holding.

If you buy today at 7000$, you can hope your best might ever reach 14000 so your 10$ turn into 20$, not 7000$ (or 14000$ lol).

Stocks can also fail, and fail hard. A bit like altcoins. Unlike Bitcoin, many altcoin start with a price and go all the way to the bottom to never recover. Some recover a bit, and very few actually do grow back up.

I'm sure getting apple stock in the 80ies would have probably been a nice move, and if i had any i would be getting rid of them now, as that company simply lost whatever it had (both Steves). You could even say the same for Microsoft (no Gates or Balmer, etc.).

Can you picture a Tesla or SpaceX without Musk? Sadly, in some companies it does matter. But Bitcoin was made in such a way that even without Satoshi is surpassed everyone's expectations, even his/her/theirs. It was a smart move to get out of the picture, people are even more confident in the future of Bitcoin, they know it can't be stopped.

The whole Proof of keys thing is just an exercise against fractional reserve. I have no idea what other type of scam you refer to, as i have not been checking the services discussion (or scamming) about that particular exchange. The event itself is general directed at no specific site but to all of them.

From your intention, simply convincing their customers, and their customers alone would do. A sort of boycott. If their customer base doesn't get in panic, even if some of them withdraw slowly, they will have time to shrink (same as banks). Unfortunately i doubt all their customers read Bitcointalk, let alone your message. I bet many don't even speak English. Only a scandal and people unable to withdraw would get their attention, and by then it is too late. That's how all of the earlier failed exchanges went. Not unlike a bankrun...

Nope, as we already discussed elsewhere (Off topic?)...

The time it takes for light from the Sun to reach Earth is about 8 mins. I don't know how long it takes to reach Mars, but we can safely assume its a bit more.

Well the worst case scenario, you have to add BOTH the time light takes from mars to sun, and from sun to earth. When? When both planets are opposite to each other.

Yes there will be times when both planets are on the same side and communications will be faster. Of course we would need a relay somewhere when its actually opposite as the Sun would block (line of sight) communications entirely, so the communications round trip is actually even longer.

This is where the 40min ping figure comes from, a ping could literally take that long. Which is precisely why remote controlling things like probes all the way from Earth becomes tricky.

Of course as we also discussed, this makes Bitcoin unfeasible. Mars would have to have their own separate coin (blockchain) to be of any practical use there.

Interplanetary communications are not a joke, and Mars is quite close compared to, say, the asteroid belt or the "outer" giants and their "moons". That is (as i said) unless advancements with quantum entanglement make it feasible for instant communication across vast distances.

Well this is one good reason to use Bitcoin. Tether is dangerous, but people don't understand that. Some are too lazy for converting things on the fly, those lazy people who have never lived hyperinflation. For starters Tether practices fractional reserve, its a bomb waiting to happen. And its "pegged" to a fiat, that is already unsafe by itself. They also use various blockchains, but not theirs. And they create tokens on a whim. If people think Tether is Bitcoin without the fluctuation, they are going to be getting a nasty surprise someday.

Any coin that claims to be backed in "anything" is a bomb waiting to explode, you will lose your money. Your only "hope" is it doesn't implode the day you are transacting with it. Those that manage it have already shown irregularities in the past...

Well i don't agree with the 40k, you are trying to do "twice" the latest peak, but it doesn't work like that. The natural price increase would be always lower as time passes. Something like 30k is tops. The entire history of bitcoin price clearly shows this logarithmic curve, which happens to match the price of things like precious metals.

Right now its 7k ish so something under 14k would be more natural think 12k or 10k.

As more time pass, less fluctuation in price will occur. Any deviation will eventually correct itself.

Because that 20k was way over its natural price, it corrected over the following year, so assuming that again as base doesn't make sense.

Of course, it all falls in the realm of speculation, but zoom out that graph and see for yourself. Now compare historic prices of other things, see where else this logarithmic curve appears. Yes, it starts with great rises and it slows down overtime. Think of this, Bitcoin going from 1 to 10, is the same as today going from 7k to 70k, which is clearly not happening at least not in a similar time period. What took days yesterday, may take months today and years tomorrow. That is how that logarithmic curve works.

And yet banks have been doing this for more than a century just fine, and no one cares. As time passes i think the temptation will only increase, and the shadier exchanges/online wallets will do fractional reserve in secret, just like bankers did before it was made legal by their own lobbying in the 19th century.

Last year no site failed because of the event. If anything they can be prepared for it, its kinda useless to tell them in advance. Its like they can simply borrow some money for a few days, not unlike a bank avoids bankruptcy when their central bank loans them the money needed to wait for things to "calm down".

Bitcoin day should be named as such, and sure you can celebrate it among other things by withdrawing all your money from any online wallets in advance, among other rituals you may have. But don't delude yourself thinking that because the site still operates after Jan 3 means its safe. Not in your wallet, means not in your control. You don't (and should not) wait for Jan 3 to find out.

Make sure you participate in the service discussion area for any specific claims against specific sites...

I think this is the best explanation so far on this thread.

Always ask the question, what can i do to stop it?

In the case of centralized money, this might mean arrest the creator, confiscate a company, destroy a (few) datacenter(s) or stage a coup.

Tell me exactly how can you stop Bitcoin? I can tell you how to stop many altcoins, especially those that depend on some millionaire, few devs can revert blockchain transactions or a dictator change the rules of the coin on a whim.

Indeed most fiat currencies cannot pass this test. If the US gov falls, and the American economy collapses, so will the USD. But Bitcoin would remain not affected. Just because your government is great and "never" allows such tragedies to occur, doesn't mean that such a tragedy might never actually occur.

Some countries have a longer standing record for "proper" monetary policy, but in the end you have to trust people. Not with Bitcoin, it remains the same unless the vast majority accepts a change. All your wealth holds pending on an executive decision... Not with Bitcoin, there can never be surprises with Bitcoin.

Yes that's old, its similar to metals vs stock. Not always, but it tends to happen, as its now another option to flee into when the economy is bad (in addition to gold, etc).

Those people will do the opposite once the economy recovers, sell their Bitcoin to buy the (cheap) stocks. Rinse and repeat, the trader's way of life.

The altcoins are not as good as Bitcoin, its that simple.

The password is irrelevant, only the seed words matter. When you create a wallet, you are supposed to write down a series of words in a piece of paper, you can recover your wallet with that.

If you lost that then you can forget it. Of course, the same is true if you have a wallet.dat file without the password, it doesn't matter if you offer 90%+ of the money for cracking it, you won't have it at any price as no one can crack it with current technology.

Unless that password happens to be a single word or some idiotic simple combination (ie. two words) that could be brute forced with dictionary attacks.

Funny thing you mention, i have been to both cities (only briefly) and i would say it depends on your interests. The best thing for me is that they are very very safe, you could simply walk around or get into one of the gazillion tours. If you have friends its easy, else maybe the tours.

Language could be a problem, not many people speak English. I assume Tokyo is getting ready for the Olympics so you have a special opportunity there. Accommodation is expensive. Transport is plentiful, if complicated, because there is so much of it, and so much people using all sorts of mass transit Tokyo has them all except maglev or hyperloop (yet) lol. And you can take a "look from the sky" if you go to the Skytree tower which is so tall its like watching from above in a plane. And from there you can see how immensely large Tokyo (or the greater Tokyo area) is.

Seoul has some ancient palaces and interesting museums. There also some curious modern skyscrapper architecture next to a thousand year old site (like the US Embassy and Microsoft buildings being next to former King's palace). Beware that Seoul has a peculiar sewer like smell in some areas. its not too bad but don't be surprised by it.

Countries should not be experienced by their capital cities alone. For many people a city is boring, you might want to enjoy nature or historical sites too (when not in the city itself). Every country really really has so much to offer its worth planning a visit on each one separately rather than running too quickly. I guess it all depends on budget or contacts (friends).

I expect an uptrend, but after that...

There is no special reason for the uptrend. Yes in theory after the halving the rate of bitcoin creation drops in half, but most bitcoins that will ever be already exist. So the push for higher prices is simply getting less and less pronounced overtime.

Skipping temporary peaks and normal fluctuations, after a while you'll see its natural price, perhaps in 2021.

But the simple expectation makes human react, and that is why.

Incidentally mining is also gradually becoming less and less profitable, but everyone should already know that.

Global rising inflation is skewed by my country alone, i don't think that is fair to include it in their math... But it is true that all fiat coins lose value, albeit in the usual 2~10% yearly so people don't notice. Same thing would happen to any limitless altcoin such as ETH.

Interestingly they blame it in "the government's" but conveniently omit bank's fractional reserve system, which goes on top of that. 9 of 10 fiat coins don't exist anywhere thanks to it, yet they pull it out since it was historically legalized scheme in the 20th century.

So before blaming governments, blame yourselves. And yes, bitcoin would cure it AND move us into Austrian economics. Gold would too, but its frankly more expensive and difficult to handle. Both do share the aspect of having an intrinsic value that is not dictated by the State, but by the market, meaning: how useful it is to people.

I don't think that's any secret. Anyone can speculate prices (and there is a forum section for that).

Those prices sound plausible, given that in 2020 comes the next halving. What happens after the halving is what i wonder. Bear market? stabilization? both possible. If the bulls don't over do it starting 2020 i guess there is a better chance for stabilization. Halving is no magic and if they over do it price will correct, sooner or later, quickly or slowly.

I don't see the problem, there are several exchanges you can use to buy bitcoin. In fact you could even do it here in the forum using someone as escrow (the very old fashioned way). But it think it would be easier for you to use something like localbitcoins.

As for fraction bitcoin, there is no problem. Every bitcoin is composed of 100 miliion satoshis, you have 8 decimals in there...

OR, you can spend that money in a couple of (modern) asic miners and wait until they reach return of investment, and after that anything produced is net worth. Depending on the price of electricity in your place, 5¢ or less per kW/h should be good.

If you live in one of the countries with really cheap electricity (or you happen to have renewable or otherwise "free" electricity), you can also buy used S9 miners for about 100$ each. You could get 50 with all that money, but you must use a part for the electrical installation, ventilation of the place etc.

If you are smart, you would diversify. Perhaps a portion in miners, and a portion in simple coin hold. But you need discipline and wait for good results.

This is false. PoS coins become expensive the moment people want them. You need a small fortune to operate a masternode, so its again give all the chance to those with the most money, and no chance to those without. In fact, i think mining gives a bit more of a chance to those without money rather than staking coins that can never be afforded (or would be too few to be worth anything).

Unless you bought them already when nobody wanted them. Which is exactly what happened to bitcoin ten years ago. You now hope somehow those worthless coins would get a bit of a price hike if people switched to them, and try in vain to "influence" the market, but the market isn't budging.

I omit entirely the part of Bitcoin moving into PoS, as this is never happening. Go elsewhere if you want to play with PoS. So far it has been a complete failure, and if they have to be inflationary like fiat, then its even less worth.

Large mining operations will cease to be profitable in the coming years, there is nothing changing that. And those people you point your fingers at will either move to other business or cease operating. The remaining miners will be those with free electricity and hobbyists who don't care (or want to warm in winter, etc). This happens because the speed the price of bitcoin prices slows down over time, and does not go up in parallel to profits in mining. You can clearly correlate the historical data and see how every day mining becomes less and less profitable, in spite of more efficient asic technology.

So whatever argument you may have against mining, will solve by itself naturally. As for deflationary money, it works with Austrian economics. Bring another inflationary coin to the table and you are only encouraging the eternal dominance of the flawed Chicago school of eternal debt and bubble pops.

Here is a new method of "storing" energy by simply using gravity (another "Free" energy source from nature). Use your excess power to move sand up a mountain and keep it up there until you need it a night or something, by having that weight go down by gravity and move the generator.

So we can now combine this "simple" storing energy method with renewable generation.

Mix Mountains and Gravity for Long-Term Energy Storage

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Actually Black holes "emit small amounts of thermal radiation"...

These i would appreciate. The more exposure the Bitcoin logo gets, the better. Even if people don't know it yet, once they learn about it they might get a more positive reaction from having previously seen the logo ("brand" awareness).

If you add some message, it might be even better. Ie: "In code we trust", etc. But BTC alone printed on a t-shirt does wonders.

Hardware wallets, no so much. I think that's money better spent in either bitcoin or the aforementioned wearables.

Gifting an asic miner, well that's only useful for miners, i guess. I think its easier to just give them bitcoins and if they want to buy another miner they will.

Gifting a wallet with funds (the seed words) might be viable, if it comes with clear instructions. Do NOT use the term "paper" wallet as this refers to an older,  discouraged method that involves exposure of the private key, something you must always avoid.

If you want to gift a "wallet", in (physical) paper, just use the seed words (explain how important they are to keep protected). You may add some public addresses and QR codes if you want them to keep adding funds to it and keep it cold (and the instructions could even explain how to view the blockchain online).