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2321  Economy / Speculation / Re: rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;) on: July 22, 2014, 07:51:53 AM
Price prediction based on a dream: 18.000$ in 2016. Posted for future reference Cool


What model is this based on?
I would sell 10% at that point  Smiley

All you need to hit a right prediction is to make many of them at random. Then, once one hit, you point to it and say-aha!
This is the method that many economists are using or so it seems...

As I said, it is info from a dream. In the dream I was having a conversation with someone (the sense was that he was quite knowledgeable) and apparently I was asking him about future bitcoin price. The answer he gave me was $18.000 / 2016. Whether it is true or not, we'll have to wait and see. That would exceed 250bn usd in marketcap which I find hard, but then again, it's still a marketcap lower than some companies.
2322  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | RC4 Testing on: July 22, 2014, 04:56:52 AM
Like it or not, there are a lot of people who read this thread, looking for news and information about Darkcoin. Which I believe in, have invested in, and would like to be able to get information on. I don't see anything wrong with me taking 5-10 minutes out of my day to check on Darkcoin news. Except that I'm apparently not welcome here because of my chosen lifestyle.

Use darkcointalk.org for daily updates when at work and read bitcointalk at home. Problem solved.
2323  Economy / Speculation / Re: rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;) on: July 21, 2014, 05:58:16 PM
Price prediction based on a dream: 18.000$ in 2016. Posted for future reference Cool
2324  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 16, 2014, 08:02:18 PM
Even if the numbers were sliced in half (assuming 50% dump) the argument is still valid.

Isn't the price subject to market supply rather than mining supply ?

Yes. However inflation (and the money required to preserve price by buying new coins) is a factor that affects market supply.

Two coins -all things being equal- where the first has 1000 new coins added per day (x0.01 btc each) and the second has 10000 coins per day (x0.01 btc each), will have different market supplies due to miners dumping for BTC.
2325  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 16, 2014, 07:35:24 PM
I was flabbergasted when I saw these figures, am I doing it wrong Huh

What you're doing wrong is assuming the daily market cap of any coin has to be bought.

To test the veracity of that assumption you need to compare the daily coin supply from mining with the daily market volume across all exchanges.

Even if the numbers were sliced in half (assuming 50% dump) the argument is still valid.

Bitcoin 616$ ~3600 per day  = 2.217.600 $ per day * 50% dump (=1.1mn)
Litecoin 8,32$ ~30.000 per day = 249.600$ per day * 50% dump (=125k)
Darkcoin 5,89$ ~2880 per day = 16.963$ per day * 50% dump (=8.5k)
2326  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 16, 2014, 07:32:57 PM
I was thinking about how much money is needed to keep the same price, regarding to coins generated per day and did some little calc.

Bitcoin 616$ ~3600 per day  = 2.217.600 $ per day
Litecoin 8,32$ ~30.000 per day = 249.600$ per day
Darkcoin 5,89$ ~2880 per day = 16.963$ per day

I was flabbergasted when I saw these figures, am I doing it wrong Huh

That's more than I thought, no wonder the trend continues downward.

People compare this number to litecoin but they do not see the big picture. Litecoin is traded on many big fiat exchanges, the price damage is dispersed. Still it continues downward spiral.

Block reward was ~25, instead of 5, for a couple of months prior to the escalation of difficulty.

At 25 per block = 14400 coins per day x 0.0015 (price a few months back) = 21.6 btc per day
At 5 per block (diff maxed out) = 2880 coins per day x 0.01 (price now) = 28.8 btc per day

If price managed to remain stable during the 14400 coins per day period - for months (when DRK was unknown as a currency), it can also do that now - easily.

It's not daily supply that's causing the downtrend. It's a holder or some holders exiting. The daily dumping exceeds 2880 coins. And my advice to buyers is that since these guys are determined to sell and exit, then make them dump for cheap and buy lower. Place orders at 0.008-9. They'll have to dump an extra 10-20% of their assets for the same BTCs.
2327  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: rpietila Altcoin Observer on: July 16, 2014, 07:15:36 PM
People whining about continuous, non-zero block rewards look like fools to anyone with common sense.  There's this thing that exists called strong encryption where people that own the coins are eventually going to die or misplace them somehow, and the outside world will never have a chance to get to many of those coins.  It's the equivalent of having everyone on the planet bury their life savings on the ocean floor instead of using a bank.  

It doesn't matter. Coins are fractional. Instead of using 10 coins to do a transaction, you'll simply use 5 if half the coins are lost - because the value of the remaining coins will double due to scarcity.

Given that you can go up to less than 1 coin (with 0.5, 0.2, 0.0003 etc) it's not a problem in any way.

Yes but then you create a deflationary currency which can be argued isn't economically viable. Look at the places that have deflationary currencies and see if you think its a great idea.

The problem of deflationary impact is non-existant in cryptocurrencies as they are supplementary currencies that do not affect the economy at large.

The problem of a deflationary currency is when that specific currency is also a national currency, dictating the macro-environment and economic operations within a specific national economy. In other words, when people transact with a decreasing number of money, the GDP goes down.

If a country continues to issue toilet-paper money (inflated money), it can keep its economy moving. However citizens do have the option of using cryptos, gold, silver etc as a store of value. The government can still pay its budget and deficits though since its issuing new money.

The whole demonization of deflationary currencies, in terms of cryptos, makes the erroneous assumption that they are the only type of money available - when they are not. They exist within a broader ecosystem of various types of money and therefore do not really set the tempo of the ecosystem. Governments do (dictate the tempo) with their fiat scam money issuance.
2328  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: rpietila Altcoin Observer on: July 16, 2014, 01:18:52 PM
People whining about continuous, non-zero block rewards look like fools to anyone with common sense.  There's this thing that exists called strong encryption where people that own the coins are eventually going to die or misplace them somehow, and the outside world will never have a chance to get to many of those coins.  It's the equivalent of having everyone on the planet bury their life savings on the ocean floor instead of using a bank.  

It doesn't matter. Coins are fractional. Instead of using 10 coins to do a transaction, you'll simply use 5 if half the coins are lost - because the value of the remaining coins will double due to scarcity.

Given that you can go up to less than 1 coin (with 0.5, 0.2, 0.0003 etc) it's not a problem in any way.
2329  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: rpietila Altcoin Observer on: July 16, 2014, 01:16:36 PM
-_-
blah blah blah, monero should not be overly inflationary, it must go like bitcoin, after mining 'stops', only transactions fees are rewarded to the miners, anything more will kill a currency, bitcoin model is well approved.
Nothing is approved. We have no idea what will happen to Bitcoin in a near future.
Gold is well approved, and its inflation has stayed at about 0%-2% for millennia Smiley
Since antiquity, the amount of gold has roughly gone up 100x. This is equal to 0.23% average APR.
I will continue in the Monero economics thread.

Let's continue...

So gold has inflation but can we say that this inflation is infinite ?

How does it compare with Monero ?

Well Monero, or any other crypto for that matter, won't be here for millenia - that much we know (or at least suspect with high degree of %).

Gold inflation, as a measure of scarcity, is "somewhat" negated by population increase / number of users of gold. For example in 1974 there was just 4 bn people... now we are running at 7.1bn people and going for the 8bn mark in a decade... So the gold distribution per person necessitates a doubling of the above ground quantities in the same time span between earth's 4bn and 8bn - just to remain constant. But the mining supply also accelerates due to better mining methods and incentives to mine (as price of gold skyrockets due to inflation in the monetary supply).

While gold is universal, in the sense that everyone knows it, cryptos are a booming market and thus they do not require a population doubling to reduce the impact of inflation. The only thing necessary for something like that is a wider adoption from the existing pool of humans. An ever-expanding user base negates inflation through new money flowing in.
2330  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 16, 2014, 02:57:11 AM
Some Interesting Facts on Cryptocurrency Traders
1: average age is 20years
2: single male
3:speed trade (looking to make enough to pay rent)

I feel like a grandpa. here  Smiley
20 years?

That's why the ADD issue and zero-patience for long-term projects / extremely short "investment" horizon.
Fuck I'm old...

Thing is, if the number is accurate, and 20 is the "average" then it means the lower-end of the spectrum is in the ...low 10's.

Quote
The Internet comes at you as fast as you make it come at you... It's a factor of the 'tard clicking the buttons.

Use it for entertainment. Use it for education. It's your choice.

Everything college could teach you is out there for free, but how many hits do those pages get? Just me, it seems like...

As I read my expression, I didn't really write it correctly. What I meant is that there is simply tons of info and too little time to focus. It's not the internet which restricts our time. It's limited time that disallows us to view / learn everything.

As for self-education over the Internet, it's the only way to go as far as future education is concerned. Knowledge on-demand.
2331  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 16, 2014, 02:47:02 AM
Some Interesting Facts on Cryptocurrency Traders
1: average age is 20years
2: single male
3:speed trade (looking to make enough to pay rent)

I feel like a grandpa. here  Smiley

20 years?

That's why the ADD issue and zero-patience for long-term projects / extremely short "investment" horizon.



Why you gotta go and make fun of us 20 year olds?

Fine, I'm not 20. Carry on.

No "making-fun-of" intended. 30 and 40 yr olds have their "issues" too. There is not a single generation without issues to deal with.

In my assessment ADD is a coping mechanism. An artifact of the media content and internet revolution. Media content (videos) are faster and faster, with constant action bombardment to stimulate reactions, while the internet disallows one to spend long time to read stuff / watch stuff, hence tons of content bombard our mind, competing for our limited time.

Our mind has to prioritize how it deals with information overload and thus gradually learns to focus for short bursts on the things that "move" the fastest / seem the most important...
2332  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 16, 2014, 02:29:54 AM
Some Interesting Facts on Cryptocurrency Traders
1: average age is 20years
2: single male
3:speed trade (looking to make enough to pay rent)

I feel like a grandpa. here  Smiley

20 years?

That's why the ADD issue and zero-patience for long-term projects / extremely short "investment" horizon.

2333  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: rpietila Altcoin Observer on: July 15, 2014, 08:21:04 PM
So Evan is the central banker here I guess ?

He couldnt implement Masternode payments so now decides to tax miners 20% ?

Tax miners? Roll Eyes

If you use your mined DRKs for MNs you get 20% "interest".

If you use your mined DRKs for MNs you reduce the danger of having them on exchanges, which can be risky for exposing large number of coins to hackers (can lead to price implosion / dumping hacked coins).

If you use your mined DRKs for MNs you actually provide a useful service to the network.

If mining becomes "unprofitable" and the hashrate drops, block reward goes up to 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 - up to 25 DRKs per block.
2334  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 15, 2014, 07:40:02 PM
The way I understand it, nothing is added to the blockchain between the green boxes. The masternodes never actually hold the funds, they just facilitate signing. Someone correct me if I am mistaken.  
This is correct the masternodes never actually hold the funds they just facilitate transactions.
Pardon me for playing Devil's Advocate: But, if the coins don't actually change hands, how does this obfuscate anything?
XC is coin-forwarding (coins go to the node). DRK's masternode simply signs transactions.
Please enlighten me further; elaborate.

When I want to send you money through a DarkSend, the masternode does not receive my coins and forward it to you. This would be a trusted technique in which the node would potentially steal the coin. What the masternode does is use my keys for signing the transaction. It's a middleman who never owns my coins.

In XC, for example, A sends the coins to node and then node sends coins to B.
2335  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 15, 2014, 07:33:35 PM
The way I understand it, nothing is added to the blockchain between the green boxes. The masternodes never actually hold the funds, they just facilitate signing. Someone correct me if I am mistaken.  
This is correct the masternodes never actually hold the funds they just facilitate transactions.
Pardon me for playing Devil's Advocate: But, if the coins don't actually change hands, how does this obfuscate anything?

XC is coin-forwarding (coins go to the node). DRK's masternode simply signs transactions.
2336  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 15, 2014, 07:32:26 PM
Closed source boo-hoo !!

Quote
Code Review

Kristov Atlas has agreed to be the first to review the Darksend code. Kristov will be evaluating anonymity and overall design of our technology and will report his findings publicly. We’ll be sending the code to him soon and we anticipate that we will hear back from Kristov by the end of the month.

What i love about Kristov is that he is a highly skeptical person by nature, but open-minded enough for pure objectivity.
 He's a brilliant observer and interpreter.

All the hallmarks of a great and thorough scientist.

I hope he can also provide some feedback for even greater levels of obfuscation / anonymity - if he finds areas of improvement Cool
2337  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 14, 2014, 08:35:41 PM
Really?  Cryptocurrencies will never be regulated?  It's already happening.  I'm not making this up to start an argument.  Governments are actually starting to implement regulations governing cryptocurrencies.

You are trolling so bad that you don't even see its hurting your trolling arguments. If the government tomorrow asks you 50-60-70% tax on capital gains for your transparent coins (BTC and others), because it can map out every transactions of yours, then come and tell us anon currencies are a bad idea and that "20% MN tax*" is worse.

* Which of course is 20% interest on your coins if you use them for MNs.

How am I trolling with this topic regarding anonymous cryptocurrencies?

You didn't answer on the capital gains tax due to regulation of transparent coins but you are somehow "hurt" by having 20% interest through masternodes. So, yes, you are trolling.
2338  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: The Deathblow to Proof of Stake on: July 14, 2014, 08:00:44 PM
If this had been any other coin, would we be blaming the coin? The coin wasn't hacked. The exchange was. Yes, POS has differing consequences when coins are stolen, but this is an unintended consequence of POS. It's not a fault of the coin's design.

The "unintended consequence of POS" is its flaw, as was evidenced in this case. It's not about coins per se. It's about the proof-of-(insterherewhatever) model is used.
2339  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: July 14, 2014, 07:37:08 PM
Really?  Cryptocurrencies will never be regulated?  It's already happening.  I'm not making this up to start an argument.  Governments are actually starting to implement regulations governing cryptocurrencies.

You are trolling so bad that you don't even see its hurting your trolling arguments. If the government tomorrow asks you 50-60-70% tax on capital gains for your transparent coins (BTC and others), because it can map out every transactions of yours, then come and tell us anon currencies are a bad idea and that "20% MN tax*" is worse.

* Which of course is 20% interest on your coins if you use them for MNs.
2340  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: The Danger of Pure Proof of Stake on: July 14, 2014, 06:58:57 PM
Another thread about the dangers of POS, what is this?  about the 5th or 6th thread? All i see so far is talk, if POS is so bad then why doesn't someone attack NXT?  Time to nut up or shut up.

PoS is not the problem here, ignorance and incompetence is. This is all a result of MintPal leaving 30% of all VRC in existence in one of their hot wallets when they are supposedly making use of cold storage methods.

If the design is not fault-tolerant of other's ignorance, incompetence or stupidity, then its dependencies for being useful are too large.
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