Bot is very secure, never makes a loss, makes money on volatility.
People claiming "never makes a loss" make me very nervous..... Just saying. The code itself is very simple. Bot is just inserting orders when he finds out that the gap between maximum EUR and minimum BTC order is bigger than it should be. He's always buying low and selling high, he cannot make any loss by design. There are no complicated calculations for orders placing. I can put into contract, that I will personally cover any losses that will be caused by unexpected bot behaviour. Of course there is a chance that MtGox itself will close down and block the funds, that case I cannot cover. I will run the bot for a couple of weeks more to see how it performs. Then I plan to issue shares for just 100 BTC for starters, then maybe expand to other markets (USD, GBP) or maybe to other exchanges. Depends on decision of shareholders, if it will come to that. Your bot can lose BTC if the price goes up a large amount and never returns to the price level you initially sold at. Example: Bid is $8.50 and ask is $9.00. This is a nice spread so your bot places and ask at $8.99 and a bid at $8.51. Your ask gets hit, selling for $8.99, and then the price continues to increase, never returning to <$9. You how hold some dollars from selling BTC for cheap and the value of your account in BTC is lower overall. This would be true in case we decided to close down the operation and spent all dollars to buy BTC and pay them to shareholders. But if the bot is working and price swings in the range he is covering, he is making money, no matter what is the price of BTC. Also when I move the range upwards, no money is lost, cause the dollar value of each order is constant and bot is keeping revenue on BTC side (always spending available dollar balance first).
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I added some performance statistics for MtGox bot working on EUR market for first two weeks of operation. I payed 8 BTC for asset creation (was 2 days ago, still not on IPO page though). IPO is planned for 10-Aug-2012. I will issue 2000 shares for 0.1 BTC each. Around 250-300 will I buy myself, rest will go for public sale. I will run 2 bots at starters, one at MtGox EUR market with 50 BTC and one at MtGox USD market with approximately 150 BTC. I already created 3rd bot that is working on Bitcoin Central currently, but that one needs more testing and performance statistics gathering before I can release it. There's no trading API at Bitcoin Central and I have to parse HTML pages, so it needs more testing for safe operation. Also I didn't figure out yet how to secure that account with 2-factor authentication and let the bot work on that exchange at the same time. On the other hand, Bitcoin Central charges no fees, so profits are potentially higher. I will definitely not release this bot before the IPO. There will need to be a motion if we will issue more shares to raise funds for this bot or not.
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I have written a btc trading bot, it takes a lot of time to tune it. Everyday you wake you will check log files and see what it is doing. I did about a month of testing and just gathering information before it even had control of my money. So good luck and never claim "never make a loss" Bots are only as good as there programmers and programmers loss sometimes.
This bot is very simple by design. There's nothing to tune except for the EUR amount of one order and desired profit. Downside of this is that it is not earning a lot. There are different trading strategies, that can yield more but are much more risky and you can lose money. This bot will "never make a loss" in BTC by design. The only possibility he could behave unexpectedly is when he gets wrong information from MtGox about his active orders which is not very likely and there are checks implemented like for example if there's too few active orders (less than 250, which can actually happen when there'll be crazy levels of volatility), bot will stop operation and I will have to inspect and restart it. Also he can place maximum of 1 order per 10 seconds and maximum of 30 orders per hour. I'm sure bot will never lose money and I can cover this possibility in contract. Also I don't expect that bot will ever work with more than 300 BTC amount under one account on one market, so the risk of loss for me is very low.
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What would the algo do if the price went straight up?
It will just place buy orders from money he got at selling when price went up. Currently bot is always keeping 300 active orders covering the whole range from 3 to 10 EUR/BTC, when some order is matched, he either places buy order or sell order depending on available balance.
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Bot is very secure, never makes a loss, makes money on volatility.
People claiming "never makes a loss" make me very nervous..... Just saying. The code itself is very simple. Bot is just inserting orders when he finds out that the gap between maximum EUR and minimum BTC order is bigger than it should be. He's always buying low and selling high, he cannot make any loss by design. There are no complicated calculations for orders placing. I can put into contract, that I will personally cover any losses that will be caused by unexpected bot behaviour. Of course there is a chance that MtGox itself will close down and block the funds, that case I cannot cover. I will run the bot for a couple of weeks more to see how it performs. Then I plan to issue shares for just 100 BTC for starters, then maybe expand to other markets (USD, GBP) or maybe to other exchanges. Depends on decision of shareholders, if it will come to that.
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Original post: Since there's too many mining and pirate related securities I'm curious if there would be a demand for something like this. I'm considering creating a security for my MtGox volatility trading bot I created recently. Bot is very secure, never makes a loss, makes money on volatility. The bigger the market volatility, the bigger the returns. But according to my calculations ROI is pretty low. On a high volatile market (like the one this week and last week), it would yield up to 0.6-0.8% per week (I already substracted 10% management fees from that), but usually less than 0.5%. Profits should improve if there's bigger trade volume, currently bot pays 0.6% fee per trade as the trade volume is less than 100 BTC. For trade volume > 100 BTC, MtGox charges only 0.55% etc. Bot is working on EUR/BTC market and has orders in the range between 3 EUR/BTC to 10 EUR/BTC (current price is around 7 EUR/BTC). If the price is swinging in this range bot is making money. If the price will go upwards of 10 EUR/BTC that shouldn't be a problem because all the profit is always on the BTC side (bot is always buying first if there's available EUR balance) and each order is valued at the EUR price, so I can move the range upwards without losing money. If price will go downwards of 3 EUR/BTC there will be a decision to make if to move the range downwards and lose some profit or close down the operation and return the money. MtGox account will of course be protected by 2-factor authentication and withdrawals through API will be blocked. I will setup this as a company with voting rights. I plan to issue 1000 2000 shares at 0.1 BTC, total 100 200 BTC, for starters. Any questions, ideas? Bots funds:Bot | Approximate value of funds | Current Trade Fee | ----------------------- | --------------------------------- | ----------------------- | MtGox USD | 150 BTC | 0.53% | MtGox EUR | 50 BTC | 0.55% | BitcoinCentral EUR | 70 BTC | 0% | Bots performance:Week | Start Date | End Date | Profit (BTC) | Management Fee (10%) | Dividend per share | ROI per week | --------- | ------------ | ------------ | ---------------- | --------------------- | --------------------- | ----------------- | 1 | 13.7.2012 | 19.7.2012 | 0.201616 | 0.020162 | 0.000726 | 0.73% | 2 | 20.7.2012 | 26.7.2012 | 0.173569 | 0.060423 | 0.000625 | 0.62% | 3 | 27.7.2012 | 2.8.2012 | 0.029527 | 0.002953 | 0.000106 | 0.11% | 4 | 3.8.2012 | 9.8.2012 | 0.076204 | 0.007620 | 0.000274 | 0.27% | 5 | 10.8.2012 | 16.8.2012 | 0.231258 | 0.023126 | 0.000139 | 0.14% | <= added bot working on MtGox USD market | 6 | 17.8.2012 | 23.8.2012 | 13.974017 | 1.397402 | 0.006288 | 6.29% | <= market crash and very high volatility | 7 | 24.8.2012 | 30.8.2012 | 1.523698 | 0.152370 | 0.000686 | 0.69% | 8 | 1.9.2012 | 6.9.2012 | 0.779619 | 0.077962 | 0.000351 | 0.35% | 9 | 7.9.2012 | 13.9.2012 | 0.892514 | 0.089251 | 0.000298 | 0.30% | <= added bot working on Bitcoin-Central | 10 | 14.9.2012 | 20.9.2012 | 0.605584 | 0.060558 | 0.000202 | 0.20% | 10 | 21.9.2012 | 27.9.2012 | 0.40708 | 0.040708 | 0.000136 | 0.14% |
Note that some weeks were very volatile. I expect the average dividend to be below 0.5 % per week (maybe below 0.3% unless there'll be higher trade volumes). Contract:GMVT Trading Bot asset (GMVT-BOT) was created with the intent to give investors the opportunity to participate in operation of a trading bot. GMVT Trading Bot is operating on bitcoin exchanges (currently at MtGox only but may expand to other in the future). Each share in this asset represent share in the ownership of funds the bot is operating with and share on the revenue. 10% of the profits bot makes will go to the asset operator who will cover all operating costs (electricity, management etc.). Operator will also cover any loss that may result from unexpected bot behaviour. On the other hand, operator is not responsible for funds that may be lost due to particular BTC exchange default and funds blockage. The operator reserves the rights, regardless of the amount of shares owned, to raise a motion, and close down the operation. At least 60% of the shareholders will need to agree for a motion to be valid. In the event of liquidation, all available funds the bot is operating with will be converted to BTC and will be distributed to shareholders. Dividends will be paid at least once per month.
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Updated table as of GLBSETime 09:34, Wed Jul 25. 1 | GIGAMINING | 40000 | 1.106 | 44240 | 24.67% | 2 | BITBOND | 88138 | 0.376 | 33140 | 18.48% | 3 | TYGRR.BOND-P | 28732 | 1.041 | 23426 | 13.06% | 4 | BIB.PIRATE | 16615 | 1.04 | 14640 | 8.16% | 5 | YABMC | 54278 | 0.157 | 8522 | 4.75% | 6 | ZIP.A | 9930 | 0.846 | 8401 | 4.68% | 7 | MOVETO.FUND | 6672 | 1.105 | 7373 | 4.11% | 8 | COGNITIVE | 7870 | 0.744 | 5855 | 3.26% | 9 | FOO.PPPPT | 5299 | 1.06 | 5617 | 3.13% | 10 | PPT.DIV | 9000 | 0.545 | 4905 | 2.73% | 11 | PUREMINING | 20000 | 0.204 | 4080 | 2.27% | 12 | PPT.A | 3000 | 1.23 | 3690 | 2.06% | 13 | PPT.B | 3000 | 1.176 | 3528 | 1.97% | 14 | PPT.C | 3000 | 1.099 | 3297 | 1.84% | 15 | PPT.D | 3000 | 1.041 | 3123 | 1.74% | 16 | TYGRR.BOND-B | 27914 | 0.101 | 2819 | 1.57% | 17 | TEEK.B | 1999 | 1.099 | 2197 | 1.22% | 18 | TYGRR.BOT | 521 | 0.963 | 502 | 0.28% | 19 | PPT | 36 | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 20 | PPT.E | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.00% |
No one dropped from top 20 most traded since last time. Total market capitalization of these top 20 most traded assets is 179355. Mining: 53.43% Pirate: 34.69% Other: 11.87%
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why do you think it is at bargain prices? They pay dividends every second Monday. Dividends are around 1.6% weekly (based on lowest ask currently, which is 0.11999)
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Updated table as of GLBSETime 01:18, Wed Jul 18. Last time I was a few days late, so this is back on schedule. No | Asset | Total Shares | 5 day average price | Market Capitalization | % | 1 | GIGAMINING | 40000 | 1.166 | 46640 | 26.96% | 2 | TYGRR.BOND-P | 28732 | 1.051 | 23426 | 13.54% | 3 | BITBOND | 51138 | 0.442 | 22603 | 13.07% | 4 | BIB.PIRATE | 16265 | 1.023 | 14640 | 8.46% | 5 | ZIP.A | 9930 | 0.948 | 9414 | 5.44% | 6 | YABMC | 54278 | 0.168 | 9119 | 5.27% | 7 | MOVETO.FUND | 6450 | 1.064 | 6863 | 3.97% | 8 | FOO.PPPPT | 5232 | 1.059 | 5541 | 3.20% | 9 | PPT.DIV | 9000 | 0.593 | 5337 | 3.08% | 10 | COGNITIVE | 7870 | 0.671 | 5281 | 3.05% | 11 | PUREMINING | 20000 | 0.221 | 4420 | 2.55% | 12 | PPT.E | 3000 | 1.216 | 3648 | 2.11% | 13 | PPT.A | 3000 | 1.176 | 3528 | 2.04% | 14 | PPT.B | 3000 | 1.108 | 3324 | 1.92% | 15 | PPT.C | 3000 | 1.044 | 3132 | 1.81% | 16 | TYGRR.BOND-B | 27261 | 0.102 | 2781 | 1.61% | 17 | TEEK.B | 1999 | 1.209 | 2417 | 1.40% | 18 | TYGRR.BOT | 977 | 0.908 | 887 | 0.51% | 19 | PPT | 36 | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 20 | PPT.D | 0 | 1.273 | 0 | 0.00% |
No one dropped from top 20 most traded since last time. Total market capitalization of these top 20 most traded assets is 173001. Mining: 50.90% Pirate: 36.17% Other: 12.93%
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Oh. this is seriously the lulz.
a passthrough bond to an unknown business.
Sounds legit. Also, sounds like a great investment. Definitely seems like investors can actually understand what they're investing in.
Yea... now I'm just wondering how long it will be before the funds are lost.
Depends on how many new investors buy shares each week
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Updated table as of GLBSETime 05:51, Fri Jul 13: No | Asset | Total Shares | 5 day average price | Market Capitalization | % | 1 | GIGAMINING | 40000 | 1.308 | 52320 | 29.01% | 2 | TYGRR.BOND-P | 26923 | 1.043 | 23426 | 12.99% | 3 | BITBOND | 51138 | 0.442 | 22603 | 12.53% | 4 | BIB.PIRATE | 15115 | 1.033 | 14640 | 8.12% | 5 | ZIP.A | 9930 | 1.007 | 10000 | 5.54% | 6 | YABMC | 54278 | 0.173 | 9390 | 5.21% | 7 | MOVETO.FUND | 6331 | 1.066 | 6749 | 3.74% | 8 | PPT.DIV | 9000 | 0.615 | 5535 | 3.07% | 9 | FOO.PPPPT | 5232 | 1.04 | 5441 | 3.02% | 10 | COGNITIVE | 7561 | 0.656 | 4960 | 2.75% | 11 | PUREMINING | 20000 | 0.23 | 4600 | 2.55% | 12 | PPT.D | 3000 | 1.246 | 3738 | 2.07% | 13 | PPT.E | 3000 | 1.184 | 3552 | 1.97% | 14 | PPT.A | 3000 | 1.116 | 3348 | 1.86% | 15 | PPT.B | 3000 | 1.096 | 3288 | 1.82% | 16 | TYGRR.BOND-B | 31232 | 0.102 | 3186 | 1.77% | 17 | TEEK.B | 1999 | 1.237 | 2473 | 1.37% | 18 | TYGRR.BOT | 1159 | 0.952 | 1103 | 0.61% | 19 | PPT | 36 | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | 20 | PPT.C | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.00% |
No one dropped from top 20 most traded since last time. Total market capitalization of these top 20 most traded assets is 180352. Mining: 52.05% Pirate: 34.91% Other: 13.04%
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I just bought some cheap bonds at 1 BTC, but decision point comes later at the end of this month. The question is if this trust account setup is not the last attempt to lure investors and take/steal as much BTC as possible before pirate shuts down the operation and defaults
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people usually don't talk on forums bout how much they invested in pirate Mageant has sent me 1,100 BTC for a sub account.
confirmed.
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Ok, I was wrong, MT.GOX owns it. scratch my entire post.
Nah, must be pirate who owns it
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lot of people running trade bots maybe
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I'm trying to enable 2-factor auth, but having trouble. In the settings menu, I'll scan the barcode and enter the 6-digit number, but it still always gives a wrong auth code error. Is there anything you need to do besides scanning the barcode with the google auth app?
Try putting that code there by hand, not scanning the QR code with a phone camera. Maybe that helps.
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I can do several percent per week on trading at Mt. Gox + some other exchanges, though not very often ...
What does that mean? On average you are not even making 10% a year. You may have been able to achieve such gains in the beginning, with luck. But now you can't, not on any longer-term average. Lol, you don't know what you are talking about
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Well, after some of the clues pirate posted, having big influence at Mt.Gox or some other large exchange, he might be doing Front running which is extremely profitable. ... Front-running that continuously yields several percent per week? Front-running with the help of Mt.Gox? Come on ... If anybody could do some front-running, then that would be Mt.Gox themselves. But even they would not make several percent per week while staying inconspicuous. I can do several percent per week on trading at Mt. Gox + some other exchanges, though not very often and not on such scale as pirate does with his business (whatever it is). And yes I think he might have his stakes in Mt. Gox or in some other big exchange.
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Well, after some of the clues pirate posted, having big influence at Mt.Gox or some other large exchange, he might be doing Front running which is extremely profitable. Well, trace the coins from deposit addresses to MtGox and/or other exchanges then, if you can. Someone already did
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Well, after some of the clues pirate posted, having big influence at Mt.Gox or some other large exchange, he might be doing Front running which is extremely profitable. The only risk is when the bitcoin price goes up steeply, he runs out of bitcoins and BTC price continues to climb, so he's unable to make profit in BTC and pay his lenders. Front running is common practice at bitcoin exchanges, with large order you will never get market price, they will take their share of profit He may even operate on many different smaller exchanges and take advantage of the information he has to increase his profits and lower the risks. So, does this theory fit? Pirate, the big market manipulator. The more bitcoins we give him, the more power he has to screw the market participants.
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