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You are right. I was wrong to state that they were a registered exchange.
They are however a registered investment firm which has to count for something.
Maybe havelock can clarify the legality of running a btc denominated security exchange under the panama fund.
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No they are obligated to give full btc refunds because it was specifically stated in the ToS and also confirmed in an email to support staff.
Perhaps morally so, and perhaps in some non-US jurisdictions (and maybe a state or two that has wildly different laws on contractual remedies), but in nearly every US state, the remedy for a violation of a contractual duty to deliver a fungible good is the market value of that good at breach, and unless the parties agree and execute otherwise, that remedy is in legal tender. It is no doubt a complicated legal situation. However the fact that HF promised full btc refunds and changed their mind later when the value of btc went up is without a doubt bullshit. Considering many people only ordered with hashfast because of these terms along with a supposed guaranteed refund if delays extended past dec 31 which they did. I doubt that the US law protects btc consumers from this type of BS even though some have apparently sued BFL for their btc and won(although don't think they collected) |
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As per US law, bitcoins are not legal tender and thus you are breaking the law by accepting them.
Hahaha, and here I thought your response to me on the Havelock thread was a funny as someone could get! Legal tender is an obligation satisfaction concept in the US, it doesn't define the panoply of property you can accept in trade. You can accept anything you wish as satisfaction of an obligation in the US, so long as it is not expressly prohibited to do so (for instance, most countries would prohibit sex, cocaine, or untaxed alcohol as payment, all the fun stuff), and you can refuse anything you want if you haven't yet incurred the obligation (a store clerk doesn't have to take your $100 in pennies in exchange for those 10 bottles of cheap vodka you want, but if you already bought those bottles on credit with the store, they have to take the $100 in pennies as satisfaction of the debt). Is there a website somewhere that supplies people with crazy, childish concepts about the law or something? I don't know where you people get your interpretations. Not sure what you have against me but I actually do agree with you. My point was that hashfast argument that all refunds must be in usd is bogus. Either btc is legal tender and they are obligated to refund full payment amount in btc or it is not legal tender in which case they were breaking the supposed law by accepting btc payments in the first place. Your weird defenses of your claim that Havelock is an have been a registered exchange in Panama are what I was laughing at. I was just going through your posts, I didn't really look at Hashfasts argument. S/he's certainly wrong that refunds MUST be in USD, but it's also not true that they are obligated to refund in btc, or at least not completely true. They have two choices in the US (this actually varies by state, but most have adopted the relevant provisions of the UCC, so it's pretty much the same), they can refund in the medium that was provided (btc), or they can refund the USD equivalent market value of the medium at the time of tender. The time of tender is the time at which the obligee (that's you) is in a position to accept or reject what the obligor has offered in satisfaction. In other words, they either have to give you back the btc, or give you back the USD at current market value. They don't get back-date. No they are obligated to give full btc refunds because it was specifically stated in the ToS and also confirmed in an email to support staff. |
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As per US law, bitcoins are not legal tender and thus you are breaking the law by accepting them.
Hahaha, and here I thought your response to me on the Havelock thread was a funny as someone could get! Legal tender is an obligation satisfaction concept in the US, it doesn't define the panoply of property you can accept in trade. You can accept anything you wish as satisfaction of an obligation in the US, so long as it is not expressly prohibited to do so (for instance, most countries would prohibit sex, cocaine, or untaxed alcohol as payment, all the fun stuff), and you can refuse anything you want if you haven't yet incurred the obligation (a store clerk doesn't have to take your $100 in pennies in exchange for those 10 bottles of cheap vodka you want, but if you already bought those bottles on credit with the store, they have to take the $100 in pennies as satisfaction of the debt). Is there a website somewhere that supplies people with crazy, childish concepts about the law or something? I don't know where you people get your interpretations. Not sure what you have against me but I actually do agree with you. My point was that hashfast argument that all refunds must be in usd is bogus. Either btc is legal tender and they are obligated to refund full payment amount in btc or it is not legal tender in which case they were breaking the supposed law by accepting btc payments in the first place. |
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Does the Panama Fund have a company address/registration #?
Yes. Panama fund has been a registered exchange in panama since 2006 if I remember correctly. The Panama Fund was formed in March of 2008, and it has never been registered as an exchange in Panama with either the SMV or its predecessor. It is beyond me how you can remember two very specific things that simply did not happen. "The acquisitions creates the world's first, fully licensed, Bitcoin Denominated Fund Exchange, where companies from around the world will be able to raise capital directly, through the exclusive use of Bitcoins. " Oh, well, if their website says it, it must be true! Nobody can lie on the internet! Except, apparently, Panama's SMV, which doesn't list them as one of the precisely two registered exchanges http://www.conaval.gob.pa/files/informacion_al_inversionista/InfoMer_Org_Auto.pdf. That also explains your made-up date. Date was not made up but incorrectly remembered. (Hence the iirc) |
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Does the Panama Fund have a company address/registration #?
Yes. Panama fund has been a registered exchange in panama since 2006 if I remember correctly. The Panama Fund was formed in March of 2008, and it has never been registered as an exchange in Panama with either the SMV or its predecessor. It is beyond me how you can remember two very specific things that simply did not happen. "The acquisitions creates the world's first, fully licensed, Bitcoin Denominated Fund Exchange, where companies from around the world will be able to raise capital directly, through the exclusive use of Bitcoins. " |
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Please check out the Custom Hardware forum! But if you really can't do even a tiny bit of research yourself, do yourself a favor and buy BitMain Antminers. They deliver 180GHs in as few as 3 or 4 days for less than 1btc each. As far as I know, no one else can beat that offer... at least until the Bitmine (different company) miners (and clones) become more readily available.
+1 It makes no sense to preorder an asic for 3 btc when you can buy a bitmain antminer for 1btc and get more power and shipping now instead of who knows when. |
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Seriously fuck off already. You are not the authority of bitcoin stocks. You are a con artist with a superiority complex. Nobody buys your shit |
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Sold out?
While I am sad for the new bag holders, I'm happy because that means you'll be paying the refunds you owe people and shipping the months delayed products.
Right?
HashFast was open and honest about the reasons for our delay. The delay was for technical reasons, not "fraud" as you falsely claim. We've provided refunds too all Batch 1 customers who asked. Most choose to be patient and have received their hardware. As per US law, mail order refunds are in US dollars. Please do not maintain the unreasonable expectation that we're going to break that law. Because your machine was always priced US dollars, divesting yourself of the delusion you are owed an approximate 800% windfall (based on post-purchase appreciation of a temporary exchange medium provided as a convenience) may also be a good idea. I guess your lawyer only wanted to take your money, because there's little to no chance he's never heard of 31 US Code Section 5103: 31 U.S. Code § 5103 - Legal tender
United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues
You refused your machine and you refused a full refund. So you get nothing. Nice legal maneuvering there buddy!  As per US law, bitcoins are not legal tender and thus you are breaking the law by accepting them. You can't pick and choose which parts of the law you want to follow. If you accept btc payments and explicitly state that all btc refunds will be returned in the original currency you cannot change your mind when it no longer benefits you. Fun fact: as per US law, modifying a contract without both parties consent is illegal. |
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Looks very nice.
Good price also.
Do you ship to the US?
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Does the X-1 come plug and play ready to mine, or do we need to buy anything additional? EDIT: Awesome. thanks man! You have to setup a pool from wich you want to mine.. I figured that much. i was just concerned with having to by additional things to even get started. I am new to the asic world and as I was looking I noticed some didnt come with PSU and others you needed some extra random part like that one miner needed a PSU jumper. If I am going to drop the money I want it to be ready to roll. Do you mean you have to have a local stratum set up like the block erupter cube or just point it to the pool u want to mine? These will come with PSU's built in, but you will need to plug them into your network somehow. Depending on how many you order you may need a switch (if there are too many or you already have stuff plugged into your router's extra ports). You will also need 1 ethernet cable for each one. Understood, thank you all for the info. Once some of my alts pump I will likely order a few. I am only a little hesitant about what KnC is going to announce along with ASICMiner. But I am sure they will not be as cost effective for us little guys like Black Arrow. Don't bother preordering. Huge risk and no benefit. Just wait until BA is shipping to make your decision. It is likely asicminer gen3 devices will be out by then. |
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are you giorgios lawyer or what?
No, just a customer like everyone else here. I just think that people had way too optimistic expectations for such a high risk investment. high risk for pre-order ? -> your seriously ? ..... pre-order have normal no high risk, if the company did a good job !... delays can be happen -> maybe 2 or 4 weeks... but not month an month.... You're obviously very new to Bitcoin mining hardware pre-orders. IMHO Bitminer are doing a lot better job than Hashfast and their final specs are a lot closer to the mark than Cointerra. While I'll not even mention BFL shall I. You really thinking of Bitmine?  ...not Bitmain  ... maybe you don`t know that Bitmine sold original 110nm Avalon chip hardware to clients monthes ago, forced them to upgrade it to their new hardware & even have not delievered that clients what should get their miners in November. The whole thing is a big fuck-up at all, including scamming people by shipping to Petahash their miners & flood market massive with chips. AFAIK this thing is even worse than BFL as they regulary posted some news & people got hardware from BFL even earlier. I don`t defend now BFL but they shipped me my 55nm chips after 100 days like they stated on their website. IMHO Bitmine was the worst hardware producer I`ve ever ordered - I had really no company advertised such bullshit like Giorgio & changed whole contract include TOS-editing after. Bfl had about a year delay for early orders. |
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Now only 4 million. Next month 1 million |
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I hear bitfury selling dev batch of their version 2 chip, few weeks ago, looks like they're going to come out before FC gen 3
Wont even compare to AM gen3. It is still using 55nm iirc. I thought the (smaller NM is better) argument was finally dead... j/ghps is what matters. Friedcat has shown you can win with older hardware if you optimize it right. You're right but it looks like only a minor revision of gen1 bitfurys. 3GH achieved at 0.62W/GH and 0.81V per chip, but a full string (@12V) requires a bit more current and will rise to 0.75W/GH
I have not pushed the chip yet to higher voltage and clocks
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Does anyone know of a mining calculator that save the history of the Bitcoin difficulty to determine how well your mining has done over time?
It'd be nice to go back to some date such as October 2013 and then factor how many Bitcoins were generated since that date to today based on whatever hardware specs were entered. I think it would be interesting to see how specific pieces of hardware have profited over time.
http://www.bitreturn.com/ |
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I hear bitfury selling dev batch of their version 2 chip, few weeks ago, looks like they're going to come out before FC gen 3
Wont even compare to AM gen3. It is still using 55nm iirc. |
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8 million dollars a month is 2.5 PH at current difficulty. Could be cex.io Edit: Says over 1PH @ 1.4MW so it must be bitfurys. Edit 2: "Dave Carlson the Founder of MegaBigPower" |
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Divs should start to come in before "assembled" miners are ready from re-sellers. AM is selling chips this time around (Avalon business model), so it would be crazy to think that they will not have a good number of their own miners assembled, running and tested before they release the chips to the public market. That would fall in line with AM getting their first batch of chips (still a large batch) at the end of this month, 1-2 weeks until they have their first miners up and running. That would give them a few weeks to test and finalize everything before 3rd party assembled miners start hitting the public sale market through resellers.
tl;dr - A May release to the general public sounds about right. Shareholders should start to see increased dividends at the beginning of April when AM has their own 3rd gen hardware up and mining, and divs will steadily increas in the weeks after as they deploy more of their own hardware/franchise and they sell chips.
+1 I am hoping FC gets the entire immersion cooled datacenter mining on gen3 before mass chip sales begin just to give a little extra btc while the difficulty is low. |
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Those were posted 1.5 months ago.
Share price spiked after the announcement(s) One thing to note is 200 shares were dumped due to a hacker a few weeks ago and then lophie just bohght 100 or so shares from havelock a few days ago. Havelock does not have enough volume for these high volume trades. Anyways 0.6 is a steal for these shares if gen3 meets simulated specs. Thanks for the heads up. By what calculation is it a steal? 5% apr with gen1 chips should give you a hint. If we expect 30% apr then asicminer needs about 10% network hashrate (or equivalent from sales) to justify 1btc/share. 10% is currently about 3ph which will be about what I predict the entire asicminer mining op will be hashing at. We know the immersion-cooled datacenter will house at least 1ph. When you consider the fact that FC plans to sell more than 1000ph of gen3 chips it doesn't seem so hard to imagine even 2btc/share. |
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Those were posted 1.5 months ago.
Share price spiked after the announcement(s) One thing to note is 200 shares were dumped due to a hacker a few weeks ago and then lophie just bohght 100 or so shares from havelock a few days ago. Havelock does not have enough volume for these high volume trades. Anyways 0.6 is a steal for these shares if gen3 meets simulated specs. |
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