Done our numbers and we are not building a cube.
Remember you are promoting this unit so the burden is on you to prove it not me. All I am saying is good luck nothing more or nothing less.
Let's see your numbers. I don't need to prove anything as you are the one who is making such claims. Anyone can tell that this miner would cost less to produce than hashratios $0.8/gh machines. Have a look around plenty of examples of that happening right now with very similar designs. Be careful and good luck. You mean like the rockminer rxbox which are being sold for around $1/gh? |
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I am talking about PCB costs, chip costs etc... you can't throw out difficulty projections and estimates of final miner costs and think that is the spreadsheet I am thinking of right? You need to do some due diligence. Time labour etc... just to get this all set up. Where will you source parts? Which PCB fab? Etc. Fabbed where? Shipped where? PSUs? etc etc.
There has be a factor for profit you will need before jumping in on this. Look at the nightmares already out there. Who you gonna call? And I do mean this seriously? Who? I don't have to worry about all that. Whoever want's to sell these can find a fab. Hashratios production cost on their bulky miner is less than $0.8/gh. Those are some real numbers. Spondoolies material costs alone are $0.5/gh for the sp30. Also some real numbers. If hashratio would simply switch to this more cost effective design I would guess they could eventually get production costs down to ~$0.7/gh. It is all well and good to project the rosy numbers but in reality there are fewer and fewer people willing to build this sort of thing because it just isn't worth the effort. That's just your opinion. Where are some numbers to back your opinion? There are already chips in design that will be out in August. I think your 5 - 7 month window is a bit myopic. Anyhow great you are big on the design. I hope it works out. I have serious reservations given the chip and the price of these units when you factor in everything. I will let you guys get back to working out who will fab out these designs up for you. Thanks for listening. Which chips do you speak of? I think the biggest competition will be bitfury and bitmain and I don't think those chips are due for a while. Maybe avalon too if they stop the exorbitant chip pricing. |
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Put up a spreadsheet and show us where these will make money for the fabricator and the miners. Please I would love to see your projections and do not forget to add all the costs in for the end users please.
Here is my ROI estimations (starts in 3 difficulty jumps) http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=11756551917&dcosts=750&diff_mincrease=15&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=750000&diff_mincreasedecrease=3&btcusd=650.80&dpowcon=750&btcusd_mincrease=1&pcost=0.05&calcweeks=32&dleadtime=3&action=calcThis assumes miners are being sold for $1/gh. With production costs at less than $0.8/gh there is clearly profit for the manufacturer. Your estimations are based on what?
Given what numbers are available most smaller miners need to be moving out of Sha256. You can hope and dream these units will be cheap but no one is going to make them if they know it is going come back and bite them when they can't sell them at the price they need to. Just a few of those those smaller board makers who would target the remaining and every dwindling small miner market. What are your estimations based on? What numbers are available? Where are small miners moving to from sha256? I don't see a dwindling small miner market at all. Almost every manufacturer has a small miner for sale. The numbers we have run do not look too promising even at greatly reduced price for BE200 or 300 chips. I think you are also assuming that there is some next gen chips that will blow these miners out of the water which will likely not be the case for a few months (5-7 months I would guess). |
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The average miner shouldn't be investing in mining given the numbers currently.
I disagree. There are plenty of people with cheap electricity. You don't need a giant mine to make a profit. You simply need a good $/gh. These things are architecturally interesting but in terms of what is in the market already for air cooled it is on the wrong end of the curve price and design wise given the modularity data center air cooled versions already out.
What on the market is more modular? Cubes are about as modular as it gets. Not to mention it can be disassembled in to blades. If it were profitable for Asicminer to build them they would. I also disagree. These are almost certainly profitable for AM to sell. Hashratios production cost is less than $0.8/gh for a much less cost effective miner (bulky case + extra fans and heatsinks). I would guess AM could produce these for around $0.5/gh which is on par with spondoolies sp30 BOM. At $0.5 or even $0.8 there is plenty of room for profit considering the market rate is ~$1.3-$2/gh. Problem is this would take tons of capital AM doesn't have. And it would create a situation where AM is directly competing with its partners/customers. I think it is better for AM to focus on providing the chips and let the chip integrators battle it out. |
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Heat sinks and the volume they take up is the issue here not weight. That is valuable real estate in a DC and even in a small node at home. Why did AM build themselves a modern high density cooling solution?
They already built the future. This offering is not it.
This is what the industry wants, maybe this is not what the home user wants it, but this is how the game is going to be played: Not sure I completely agree with that. Immersion cooling is definitely the future but it is quite a ways off before it becomes economically viable for most DCs let alone most homes. I predict that a very efficiently deployed immersion setup would cost ~$150/kw. For those with cheap electricity, it would still make sense to go with air cooling. For example if you had an an efficient setup ($150/kw) and $0.05/kwh electricity you would be saving ~1/3rd on electricity so ~$0.016/kwh or about 1 year to break even. You simply have to admit that for the average home miner and air cooled DCs with cheap electricity, this is quite an attractive machine. Side note: I am 99% sure that AM has already made a high density immersion solution and I'm sure they will give it to anyone who asks (not positive about that last part) |
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No miner is under 1W/GH so the range isn't so wide for better efficiency.
Did you not see the new opensource miner from friedcat? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=641957.200.85w/gh excluding psu loss. Also the chips are clocked at 8gh/s so there is a good chance this is not the max efficiency. |
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Would they use these chips if they can get something more powerful same price or lower?
Of course not if it is cheaper and equally or more efficient. But if it is the same price they would probably still go with AM simply due to the fact that FC delivers. Just asking? Would they want to make something that required all that aluminum? Even Marto isn't selling boards now with all his new designs... guess chips cost too much to make a profit compared to Bitmain offerings. Guess that small fabricator is going out of business as well.
Where exactly do you see "all that aluminum"? I just downloaded the cad files and it looks like it uses only 0.64 0.32 lbs of aluminum (excluding heatsinks). Also it uses a single 120mm fan for cooling. I don't know if it gets better than that. Maybe a single 180mm fan would be better although there is a much better selection on 120-140mm fans. |
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And 13% extra efficiency is BEFORE PSU so in the end it's more than 13% extra efficiency. SP10 is ~1w/gh at the wall. rk-box is ~1.15w/gh at the wall. |
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More weight will mean higher shipping fees, but don't worry people don't care about dB, about weight, about power efficiency, about stack-ability, about having 100 cables in their miner, about anything and AM will sell their 60PH in just 2 months and we can all celebrate then a safer bitcoin network.
Good thing you won't need to order directly from the manufacturer so shipping won't be so expensive. People don't care about 1-2 extra kg (we have flat rate shipping in 'merica), or having extra cables, or needing shelves to stack. (this is clearly for the home miner. Not for DC use.) The average miner cares about $/gh and w/GH. And it looks like rockminer will deliver on both. (and before you claim ~13% extra efficiency justifies paying double the price, no it does not.) |
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i wonder if AM will again have a starving phase of low to no divs until sellout of gen 4, because that is one of my main concerns. This is why I hope they set up at least one behemoth 20MW datacenter with cheap electricity so that we can have steady divs until gen4. |
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7KG for 450GH at 480W before PSU I'm assuming AND 65dB? My my...I'm so proud of my SP10 now!
74dB Sp-10 is about twice as loud as 65db, i never heard either, mind you. The dB factor is the last one because the other stats are more important. In order to get 1.5Th/s you will need 3 spaghetti monsters which will bring you to 21kg, 1350GH, 1440w before PSU and 65dB x3. If the fans are replaceable then dB should not be an issue. And I don't think anyone really cares about the weight. |
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The real problem is MORONS who think other wise. The real problem is the morons who demand a refund with special terms from a company in china which said no refunds to begin with. |
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I don't think anyone here has a magic crystal ball accurate enough to predict the btc/usd rate and btc difficulty in 3 months, let alone 3 months after that.
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guys,you can check what the refund clause of BITMINE ...
refunds delayed but at least bitmine refund you what you paid exactly.and if paid by bitcoin ,then values in today's price of exchange rate and plus 10% as compensation.
I dout there are so many resellers and BA workers here just like on ecoin
That is because bitmine is retarded. If you pay in btc you get your original btc payment back. There is nothing to argue about. No court (especially in china) will take your claims seriously when BA offered to refund original payment. If you are really in desperate need of money, as you said in your previous posts, you would quit bitching and take the money and accept your losses. Btw china does not classify btc as money so good luck taking any legal route. |
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keep its sharevalue on a steady basis, right? There will never be a steady share value as long as it is denominated in such a volatile currency. |
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7KG for 450GH at 480W before PSU I'm assuming AND 65dB? My my...I'm so proud of my SP10 now!
I'm interested to know what kind of fan this uses and if it will be replaceable with a quieter fan. |
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Who exactly are these machines targeted towards? I think even small miners don't like anything less than 1th these days. cryptx would have to order 6000 of these bricks, handle customs and shipping as opposed to picking up few hundred locally. Small miners don't care about the gh/machine they care about the $/gh. Each cuboid is 768gh so 6000 would give petamine ~5PH. Petamine could also save even more money by building the asics themselves using the opensource design. |
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Once again, Gordon Grainger has foiled their elaborate scam..
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each RX-Box needs a 800W PSU, that is about $260(BTC0.4). So Rockminer: $1.5/gh, ~1.2w/gh. That must be the most expensive 800w psu I've ever heard of. You can use a cheap $10 modded server psu or a $50 atx psu should work fine. And Petamine is under their way to reduce the power consumption, to ~0.75w/gh. Once you add cooling it will end up around 1w/gh. (Assuming their cooling setup is relatively efficient) |
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^^^ exactly what he said. Don't forget all that mucking around cooling the miners, maintaining them, setting everything up, I still think PETA is better off at this rate. Let them worry about keeping everything running smooth, online, paying electricity bills and ill just kick back collect my divs every week. Hell of a lot easier for someone like me anyway
Heres an idea: what if PETAMINE built some of those sexy new AM machines? If they can match hashratios production costs, they would spend less than $0.8/gh. Much better than the $1.8/gh they are currently spending on reinvestment HW from bitfury. |
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