Without being licensed as money transmitter? Good luck.

And just how do you hope to do that without knowing what a bitcoin will be worth?

Its not a chicken and egg problem, its quite obvious that mining difficulty follows price and not the opposite. Its quite obvious that mining equipment is priced at a point that chases mining profitability. Why else do january orders cost half as much as december orders?

 If you like regression theory so much, what do you think would happen when we are hit with a 51% attack, making the mining of new bitcoins impossible? Your mining cost will shoot to infitinty, but do you think the price would follow?  OR would it crash ? What if Bitfury were to deploy a 100PH private farm tomorrow? Mining cost for everyone else would explode, would it cause an increase of bitcoin price?  And what happens if bitfury decides to double it from 100 to 200PH ? THey double their costs and what else changes? Nothing.

Similarly, if SHA256 would be hacked causing the price to crash to nearly zero, dont you think that will have an impact on the price of mining equipment? Or do you think mining equipment will drop in price first and only when mining becomes cheap, the price of bitcoin will follow?

Miners control only a very small amount of the coins traded each day. Something like 1%. How you think they control the price is beyond me.

https://www.kncminer.com/news?page=2

10/11 "So far the factory has produced about 700 products, while it seems a lot we were hoping for more by now,"

The rest is here:

https://www.kncminer.com/news

Yesterday the factory produced and shipped 350 boxes
Yesterday in the factory we had 455 boxes
The factory produced 280 boxes yesterday.
Ok so after a weekend of producing boards and over 600 boxes shipped in the last few days I have imported the last of the October orders into the production Queue, If the factory have a good day tomorrow they should be able to completely finish the Order queue for all orders that had an October shipment.

its not entirely clear if that 600 figure also includes some of the ones reported earlier, but judging by the numbers and dates, 5 days after the previous shipping update, I guess it does not.

Total is 2,385 + one good day.

You are using a bank as broker/dealer. The bank is a sophisticated investor and can buy whatever security or finanical lottery ticket it wants.
However, it can not sell you unregistered securities unless you are a sophisticated investor.


I imagine a bank could theoretically register its own security and act as a pass through. But thats not circumventing the law, its implementing it. And im not even sure they are allowed to open their investors indirectly to the risk of unregistered securities.


No. An Austrian owning a share of google doesnt mean google is soliciting investments on the Austrian capital market.


Exactly. And selling securities over the internet without verifying the identity and nationality of the investors, is put on the same footing for obvious reasons.

eeck.. hope you found better prices than I did. That stuff makes my bottles of Lafite Rothschild look cheap.

+1
DnT, can you start a thread on this? Have some questions that would go off topic too much here, like what sort of oil you intend to use.

ROFL

Of course you are not sure, because you still havent bothered to read the regulations, have you?


Buyers dont just "come". The key is were you are targeting the sales. Those markets are the ones where you have to be registered. For online sales, Ive posted what is considered targeting by US and HK governments. IN short, if you dont actively try to block investors from those countries, you are considered targeting them.


Nonsense. The stock exchange knows your identity and nationality and will prevent you from buying securities that are not registered in your country. They must do that to comply with their license.

Note that Im only talking about "unsophisticated" investors here. You and me. You are allowed to sell unregistered securities to the rich and famous. And to the pro's.

Nor does it account for the production cost, supply chain and HUGE opportunity cost of selling these miners far above marginal cost.

1000PH is the equivalent of more than 2 million HF babyjets. Even if the price would get down to just $500, thats $1 billion dollar. Who's going to cough that up?
Moreover,  if they start producing today, to get there by February thats ~17000 units per day, 7 days a week.  Ciara is a big plant, a really big plant, but last I looked, IIRC they boasted about 2500 unit per day total production capacity across all their lines.

Now I have a reputation for being pessimistic about miners prospects, but even i dont believe this for a second.  100PH would be pretty amazing already.

You are confusing at least two thing; the stock exchange and the security itself. In order to attract US investors without violating US security laws, both the exchange and the security would need to be licensed/registered with the SEC.

If the security is not registered with the SEC, the stock exchange should not allow (unsophisticated) US investors to invest in it. IF the stock exchange is not licensed by the SEC, they should not allow US investors to use their services at all.

It seems very unlikely to me a German stock exchange would not have gotten an SEC license, so most likely they can operate on the US market.  OTOH it seems very plausible that some (german) securities were not registered with the SEC, and only targeted at German or EU investors.

PHone number of Zopo in shenzhen:
0086-185-2080-5768

Just ask for Fabrizio Tatti from international marketing department. But its 5am there now. Consider recording the call.

You got it backwards. THe cost of mining doesnt influence the price of bitcoins. In your logic you are ignoring the fact that the network adjusts difficulty automatically, thereby constantly changing the cost of mining 1 BTC per day pretty dramatically. In the end, the cost of mining a bitcoin will roughly equal the value of a bitcoin, but this is due solely due to changing difficulty and will happen no matter at what price bitcoin is or how much a GPU or ASIC costs to produce or to run.

Also you shouldnt look at the retail price of mining gear, that price just represents what idiots who cant do math are willing to pay. Looking at costs of mining gear is looking at it the wrong way, this gear is developed and priced so it can make a profit based on bitcoins price, not the other way.  But if you insist, why dont you look at the real costs, ie, production cost instead? By my estimate, a hashfast 400GH asic costs less than $35 to produce. Add PCB, PSU etc, and you may get up to $100 per 400GH tops. Does that mean bitcoin is currently overvalued? Of course not. It just means that HF will make a ton of money and difficulty will skyrocket, thats all it says.

1000P ? As in Petahash?  By February? That sounds like more than a stretch. Even if the hardware costs nothing, electricity consumption of a 1000PH network would be close to its mining revenue for anything but the cheapest electricity. We may get there one day, but not in February. If Friedcat really think he can get several 100PH online by then, well, I wanna buy some shares. Find this hard to believe though.

Looks like the assembly is done right next to the "datacenter" which isnt sealed and I see no sign of AC. The word "sweat shop" comes to mind





 (literally, gotta be HOT there!)

And yeah, it doesnt look for profi, but hey, the lack of fancy floors and walls and biometric access and conditioned purified air .. it all saves money!

Works fine for me.

Hmm.. I thought you would have had no legal basis for demanding a refund as long as HF isnt 30 days overdue, but that seems to be incorrect, the 30 day rule only applies if no 'shipping representation' was given. Its clear they did give a shipping representation, just being 1 day late gives you grounds to refuse the order:


Moreover, whatever they say on their ToS page is likely overruled by anything said over the phone, probably on this forum and on their order page:

Qualifying 30-day or Other Shipment Representations:


http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule

Curious how this will pan out, though I have to say I would have expected BFL customers to file complaints en masse well before hashfast.

(/me waits for Ytterbium, Ytterbium & Associates to point out thats a mail and telephone order rule and therefore doesnt apply to online sales paid with bitcoins )

I knew you would quote that. I knew you wouldnt be able to read that document and understand what it says, thats why I linked that article earlier.

Anyway, Im done arguing this with you, whether you are just unbelievably obtuse or trolling, back to ignore you go.

You moron. Straight from the SFC website

2.1 This Guidance Note clarifies the Commission's regulatory approach
associated with the conduct of the following activities over the Internet:
2.1.1 securities dealing, commodity futures trading, leveraged foreign
exchange trading, and related advisory businesses;

Are you really saying company shares are not securities, just because the company business is somehow related to bitcoin asics instead of cell phone asics, oil, gas or Chinese pastry? Or are you saying that because we trade these securities for bitcoins instead of dollar or CNY that they are not securities?


You may think the key question is whether or not the earth is flat or round, but everyone else is long past that point. If you want me to dig up the legal defintion of securities for whatever your favorite country, you will have to start paying me. But anyone that had any doubt that a bitcoin denominated investment contract is legally a security in the US should start reading up on Pirate's court case.


http://rt.com/usa/bitcoin-sec-shavers-texas-231/

ROFL.


Bravo, you have started to read. Good for you. Yes, the article is about hedge funds. Now can you also read the paragraph in its entirety?

When are you subject to SFC regulation?
As a general principle, the SFC has stated that it will not seek to regulate the provision of financial services that are conducted from outside Hong Kong and over the Internet, unless such activities are targeted at people residing in Hong Kong or are detrimental to the interests of the investing public in Hong Kong or to the market integrity of Hong Kong.


This is a general principle, explaining what "targeting people residing in hong kong" over the internet means. its not limited to hedge funds in any way and the idea that targeting HK investors for hedge funds would be different from future contracts or other securities is just ridiculous. Moreover, I did link to the original laws earlier, but hey, with your reading comprehension skills I thought the above article might be easier to digest. I guess not.

Now carry on trolling.


edit:
http://en-rules.sfc.hk/net_file_store/new_rulebooks/h/k/HKSFC3527_3568_VER11.pdf

You've been saying the same BS for months now and you've been proven wrong at every turn. Dont you ever get tired of being wrong or are you that stupid that you dont realize it?