Some people on the asset exchange have upwards of 12 stakes. I saw multiple accounts with over 10 just scanning through. Some big holders are beginning to form.
I almost guessed that happening  i dont think it will effect nem that much.. if a whale wants a large amount of a currency.. they will usually acquire it one way or another.. whether its buying up cheap now or manipulation of the market after launch.. so it makes no odds really.. lets just hope these are the type of whales to put up bounties and give donations and fund conferences ect.. I agree, it is normal in the development of a currency... some of these large holders may even benefit the currency like you said. There were probably a couple stakeholders with 10+ sockpuppets never caught too, so I am guessing there are currently around 20 people with over 10 stakes each. I am guessing that out of these 20 one or two may have over 20 stakes. Then the devs may get around 40 stakes (not sure). However this still seems to be a great distribution with little manipulation. -EFFV There were few who said that they have 40 - 60+ stakes. Provocation/trolling maybe, coz they did not want to prove or sell. I was regularly reading the threads and you were referring to maybe only two people, and their stories were skeptical. There was that one guy who claimed to be from Ukraine (probably didn't know the country existed until Euro Maidan) and claimed to had sold stakes for $5K a piece (  ), it later became clear that one story was definitely provocation and trolling Probably the most hilarious story with NEM (although the guy was forced to refund his stakes), was the guy who (after taint analysis) said he was claiming stakes for his Grandmother and Infant children..  yea... many stories, but we can not know, which of them were true  It was a call for participation and we don't need the technologically illiterate. There is no strict requirement that someone is active on Bitcointalk or social media. That being said, there could be an implied assumption that NEM stakeholders will engage in offline P2P advertisement. In that scenario, an infant or a technologically illiterate grandmother isn't of any use to NEM as they couldn't possibly explain to someone how to download & use a wallet. |
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I am classified as an early NxT adopter, by the NxT crew, and yet the capitalization has yet to recover to what it was back in late January when it hit $100 million.
The FUD with the distribution, quality of source code and the emerging discussion of NxT descendents is arguably what did NxT in.
I know NxT emphasizes the rhetorical 'technological innovation' argument but it's a weak argument. There is nothing proprietary (nothing can be patented) in the crypto world. Most of NxT's best features are currently being copied into other coins as we speak. Without the innovative features what is NxT stuck with? The poor distribution? The accompanied hostile whales who engage in price manipulation?
The reality of cryptos is best symbolized by Doge - it was a stupid meme of a dog and yet it was worth more (at one time) than NxT and Mastercoin. Bitcoin is arguably no different, hundreds of coins have come about claiming to be superior and yet innovation hasn't come anywhere close to dethroning Bitcoin.
Much like real world $Fiat - it seems like community is more important than anything else. The $USD is a good example in a way, it still uses green paper money while there are countries in Africa which have already adopted polymer bills, but the US is technically the dominant currency in the world due to use as the petrodollar around the world.
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Not a chance. The highest per capita use of Bitcoin, for a large city, is perhaps Vancouver. Maybe Mass Effect was on to something where the capital of earth was Vancouver. The only downside is Canadian banks hate Bitcoin (they freeze anything dealing with the exchanges) and the next possible Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau (who'll be a spitting image of his Marxist Father), will probably be hostile to it. They have six Bitcoin ATMs (IIRC - first bitcoin atm on the planet) and close to 80 merchants who accept Bitcoin. Some cities do have slightly more merchants than Vancouver but they also grossly outnumber Vancouver in population. Vancouver is only 2.4 million people versus 8.4 million San Francisco Bay area versus 16.4 million greater Los Angeles. Sure but in London you can buy bangers and mash with Bitcoin. The UK deals with everything the same way the US does. Accept it, absorb it and regulate it to death. Maybe that's a colonial empire trick? Resistance is futile Bitcoin will be assimilated. I would think Singapore would be a better contender for a Bitcoin capital than Vancouver. Vancouver may have the highest per capita use but the law is still ambiguous and the next government could be openly hostile to it. Which only seems ironic to me. If Bitcoin is capital, most of that capital is technically Chinese / American / European and having it flow into Canada would be beneficial for the Canadian country (job creation and, even if it's not directly taxed, would increase the tax coffers), but I wouldn't put it past a moronic politician to ruin a good thing. |
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Extremely wishful thinking - London doesn't even make the top 10 on some Bitcoin lists. Vancouver, which surprisingly has been absent in the discussion so far, is often regarded as the #1 Bitcoin city in the world. It has the largest per capita use of Bitcoin for a large city. It's a metropolitan of 2.4 million people and it has six Bitcoin ATMs (including the first in North America and possibly the world) and 80 merchants, the only cities with more merchants is due to having immensely larger populations than Vancouver (Greater LA which is 16.5 million and greater New York 23.5 million) but we're talking about only a couple more merchants and less ATM coverage (so arguably worse). The capital of earth in the Mass Effect series is Vancouver.  |
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NEM currently has a capitalization close to $10 million on the asset exchange, pretty good for an unreleased coin. The rush to acquire NxT, to purchase NEM on the asset exchange, was a factor in NxT's recent pump. No different from how Mastercoin ballooned when people were looking to acquire Maidsafe. There has been assets which traded slightly more than NEM but they entirely within the NxT system (NxT whales purchasing assets; so no outside money coming in).
I think you all exaggerate the importance of technical innovation. IIRC - the average person uses less than 90% of the functionality of an Iphone, Blackberry, Samsung Galaxy, et cetera. Never the less, the image of being innovative is important in advertisement. NEM may not be as innovative as NxT but it's still comparatively innovative (it has features which NxT doesn't have and it's 10,000x more innovative than all the $hitclones still being made) but it also has that big community and a better reputation.
Everyone, who isn't a NxT bagholder, thinks of NxT as being that coin which has terrible distribution and that's something NxT can't really get away from. Many people think Bitcoin is a get quick rich scheme, they'ld have a far more negative interpretation with NxT's distribution.
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NEM has been distributed to 3000 stakeholders and taint analysis was used to remove hundreds of sock puppets. There may still be sockpuppets in NEM but, realistically, it's an unprecedented distribution compared to every other coin in existence. Every coin is dominated by less than 50 real people (more often it's less than a dozen people, the developer and his friends). NEM is unprecedented and will launch with several thousand stakeholders. Even worse case scenario, if NEM is half sock puppets (unlikely), it's still a fair distribution compared to every coin which has ever launched in crypto history.
I am sorry to rain on your parade, but: a) there is a coin like that - CommunityCoin, distributed to 500 stakeholders equally, and it proved that distributing equally doesn't necessarily equate with innovation and adoption; b) NEM has been nothing but hot air for a few months now, they haven't shown a single line of code, you got to be out of your mind to seriously expect something out of it. I'll take my words back as soon as I see their alpha wallet on June 25, and might even buy a stake in NEM, but of course not at the current ridiculous price with absolutely nothing backing that price. No one cared about Community Coin. It may as well been called "Communist Coin" or "Karl Marx Coin". The coin itself is already red, so they'ld only have to change the name. The reason Community Coin flopped is the following - No innovation. It was a generation 1.5 proof of stake, these are a dime a dozen right now. - Developer is named after the coin. Developer named after coin = scam (99% of the time). - Distribution to 500 but no serious anti-sock puppet measures were introduced, beyond (initially) requiring a Facebook account. Requiring a facebook account is a major breach of privacy for most people (embarrassing too) and then there are people, out there, who own a dozen FB accounts. I shouldn't need to point this out but community coin started months after NEM and largely stole the distribution concept. Whereas NEM - Innovative. Proof of Importance. Second generation crypto. - Known developers. UtopianFuture, Gimre, Jagaur, et cetera, were all reputable names in the NxT community. - Community is awesome and largely FUD free so far - Distribution to 3000 stakeholders w/ taint analysis - Ad infinite NEM currently has a capitalization of $10 million in the prelaunch token trading. This isn't an accident, the hype behind NEM is such that people are convinced it will probably be worth $40 million within a month or months of launch. Possibly even rival Litecoin or Bitcoin but that's dependent on the coin being good, the community remaining free of FUD & scandal, the effectiveness of the swarm team, P2P advertising, et al. Waiting until open alpha to buy a token is perhaps a bad idea - when people play with the open alpha, and make their conclusion on it, there possibly wouldn't be any cheap stakes anymore. |
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I'm not familiar with Monero. I'm going with the assumption that it cannot compare with Nxt, in technical innovation.
Nxt, as mentioned, as has terrible distribution. There may had been 73 original wallets but only 20 wallets invested the 1.5 BTC limit (this was before the November boom). I'm going with a haunch, since it was such an obscure IPO without taint analysis, that those 20 wallets were probably only owned by 5 people with sockpuppet accounts.
IIRC - people who invested 1.5 BTC had received either 40 to 50 million NxT. That means there are easily sockpuppet masters with close to $14 million USD in NxT. These people will be billionaires if NxT rivals Bitcoin in capitalization (even wealthier than Satoshi).
Ethically - the last coin I would invest in would be NxT, you're contributing to some whale's get quick rich fund.
NxT did attract an amazing community but it all went down south after people realized how screwed up the distribution was and the solution resulted in NEM, which is entering open Alpha by June 25.
NEM has been distributed to 3000 stakeholders and taint analysis was used to remove hundreds of sock puppets. There may still be sockpuppets in NEM but, realistically, it's an unprecedented unparalleled distribution compared to every other coin in existence.
Every coin is dominated by less than 50 real people (more often it's less than a dozen people, the developer and his friends).
NEM is unprecedented and will launch with several thousand stakeholders. Even if there are 200, 500 or 1000 sock puppets (unlikely due to anti-sock puppet measures), NEM still has thousands of real unique persons. That is compared to the average crypto these days where a dozen or less people own everything.
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The Open Alpha is scheduled on 6/25. Let's the countdown begin. We will be inviting selective users into the closed Alpha testing starting in a couple of days. The priority goes to helpers/ volunteers who are in the Trello board or answer the volunteer survey earlier so there is no need to sign up now. Thanks.
On behalf of the NEM dev. team.
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Housing prices are based on predatory lending, aka our banks.
We cant buy or afford homes is due to when we our buying ability of dollar value by the time it gets to us, we have to pull out a loan which becomes a never ending cycle.
Cheap credit is largely the culprit. If there was no sucker who was desperate to purchase the overvalued homes (such as young families), who would be buying the properties off the investors? If you took cheap credit and mortgages out of real estate, prices would return to historical norm (equivalent to a few years' salary as opposed to decades in the status quo) |
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why the coin is so expensive?
Your answer can be found on the first page. - Fair distribution (call for participation) with 3000 stakeholders - Proof of intent (distinct form proof of work and proof of stake) - Large, skilled, development team. Gimre and Jagaur were contributors to NxT. The other developers had roles in other successful coins. Is Proof of intent the same as Proof of Importance? Yep. Sometimes it's also called proof of interest. I think the importance is the more official lingo. |
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Every seminar is this way. I attend some seminars for work and they're very expensive affairs. I don't get why companies spend tens of thousands (flights / hotels / booking fees) to have representation at the seminar but 90% send some intern or lowly employee who can't answer simple questions. Can't complain since I get to attend them for free and I get all the free pencils, USB sticks and candy I want. Seminars, if the big shots bother to show up, is all about networking and socialites. How effective are they? Probably not. It's a relic (a dinosaur) from the pre-internet age. Considering these Bitcoin / coin seminars only attract hundreds, what good does it do when it's a market involving millions of people? |
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why the coin is so expensive?
Your answer can be found on the first page. - Fair distribution (call for participation) with 3000 stakeholders - Proof of intent (distinct form proof of work and proof of stake) - Large, skilled, development team. Gimre and Jagaur were contributors to NxT. The other developers had roles in other successful coins. |
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It's pretty sick that as a member of the European Union it's nearly impossable to even afford to rent (not even own, rent) a home with a moderate wage. Not even a big home either, just a crappy 1 bed 1 bath type of home is already terribly expensive.
Have you tried getting a job? Quite a few people work a full time career and part time and/or weekends to afford a home. Historically - housing was maybe equivalent to three year's salary in the 1950s but, unless you live in a depressed market like Nevada, homes today are often 10 to 30 times the average income. Something's wrong with our society, thanks to $Fiat, where people in their 20s (historically) owned homes in the 1960s and prior, but today we have 20-somethings (and some aged 30 year olds) living with elderly parents. Go back decades earlier, you had European immigrants in the 1890s in their 20s who effectively got free farmland (providing they tilled it) throughout the states. Fast foward to 2014 - most youth in the world are unemployed and have no land. This world has gone dystopian rather quickly. Why did housing become a commodity overnight? Perhaps because as an asset it held its' value compared to declining $Fiat? Maybe because people never revolted against the commodification of a human need? Would people revolt if water became a commodity like housing? Imagine if you had to indebt yourself to get clean drinking water? Would the sheeple revolt? No way - they'll be content until someone turns off the football and angry birds. (sometimes even worse - think of China or Eastern Europe, where new condos are bought by investors for $500K but working class people make $10K or less. Worse case example is Angola, where most people are in poverty and yet it's often considered the top 5 most expensive real estate. ). It comes down to poor distribution of wealth in the world and the lack of laws preventing the commoditization of shelter. Every human has principle needs to survive and shelter is one of them, and yet affordable housing (that isn't a tin shack) is inaccessible to billions of people. Insane real estate prices would end rather quickly if they ended absentee landlords (this would also end slumlord apartments, which are only slums because the owners refuse to pay a few ten thousand to upgrade or repair them, despite collecting hundreds or a thousand from each tenant in rent) and prohibited the use of credit in purchasing real estate. |
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I wonder if it might help if coinmarketcap.com had some additional guidelines regarding which coins are eligible for a top 100 listing.
Perhaps if a coin had to be older than X before becoming top-100 eligible it might help slow down the churn and the coin mill.
I was also thinking of this. There should be a mandatory "grace period" where a coin has to be out for at least 10 days or so, before it can be added to coinmarketcap. I'm not sure if this would work - it doesn't stop the issue with developer whales or whales dumping at launch. . all your proposed solution does is delay the inevitably by a couple of days. |
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I find it remarkable that NEM, compared to other coins, has essentially been free of FUD so far.
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Real estate and renting is the upper middle class' get quick rich scheme.
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Only 20 people invested the full amount into the NxT IPO, and that 20 was probably half sockpuppets or more due to how obscure it was.
If NxT hits billions then there'll be new billionaires.
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I agree with your conclusion. People are buying NxT at a premium (rushing) to trade for NEM, this has an upswing effect on NxT. As we are seeing now, as volume declines for NEM (went from 4 million to 3.5 million), this coincides with a decrease in NxT value as the number of people looking to buy on premium is on the decline at the moment.
Here is amount of AE volume in last 30 days http://www.cryptoassetcharts.info/assets/infoAs you can see there a lot of other assets that had big volume (bigger or just as big) as Nem Just wait 30 days ! There's no need for that long, NEM can do it in 15. There were a couple assets bigger than NEM but they were entirely within the NxT system, e.g, NxT holders buying the new assets (NxT to assets). NEM, although hosted on the same asset exchange, brought in new people who were paying premium prices for NxT in order to buy NEM (BTC to NxT to NEM). |
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I never invest into an IPO which has a developer named after the coin.
It's likely the same six people creating the scams over and over.
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I don't know if other Nemsters have noticed, but I'm enjoying NEM's current independence from Bitcoin. - A large amount of the stake fees were paid in NXT.
- The NEMstake tokens are issued on the NXT AE and thus are bought/sold with NXT.
I just hope it continues. If there is an alternative way of doing the upcoming auction without using the Bitcoin blockchain that'd be fantastic. use NXT blockchain! :L It is a good move to do that. Look at the predicament of Maidsafe and how they suffered with Mastercoin when they used Mastercoin to fund their crowdselling. They really got burned. NEM has take a different route. On the contrary, it appears NEM is doing NXT a favour. ;-) And releasing that 1000 NEMstake is also a good move to pent up demand and size the market. Kudos! I agree with your conclusion. People are buying NxT at a premium (rushing) to trade for NEM, this has an upswing effect on NxT. As we are seeing now, as volume declines for NEM (went from 4 million to 3.5 million), this coincides with a decrease in NxT value as the number of people looking to buy on premium is on the decline at the moment. |
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