It will be very interesting to see what the BTC mining world will look like in March 2014.

thegenesisblock.com reports that coninterra and hashfast together have sold more than $17.5 Million worth of gear so far. This is before today's announcement from Cointerra regarding the newly available Terrahash IV.

As of September 10th, I've been waiting 6 months on my first order of BFL gear. In that same period the network has gone up by nearly 10x

Will go up another 10x in the next 6 months? I think yes. Verly likely much more. Just to keep up with current dividend levels, LRM will need to be 10x of what it is today.

When you consider that RL returns on owner operated companies are in the range of the low 30%'s to highs of mid 40%'s it is reasonable to expect that the returns to miners will approach these levels before the rate of growth in the network begins to level off. The notion of a 2 - 3 month payback on gear has already gone by the wayside and the "fever" is giving way to the norms of investing into any particular business venture. Eventually the 'industry' of mining will yield something on the order of a Johnson & Johnson or other dividend paying blue chip. This does not contemplate the expected increase in the value of BTC which of course could be realized simply by buying BTC itself. Running a lean operation, getting the capital reinvestment ratios right and picking the right suppliers will be critical success factors going forward. Another important factor will be timing the divestiture of EOL gear.

LRM has every appearance of getting off to a good start. I'm certainly far happier with my LRM purchase than that of BFL

Keep up the good work Zachary, we're counting on you.  

Wow - talk about efficiency - I was beat at posting my own post! LOL......

Anyways, you can see here that Josh spent some time in the SB tonight providing some degree of additional clarity. While I understand the constraint placed on him and the BFL team as to the use of paydates shipped as the benchmark of progress I still do not agree with it. It belies any empirical measure other than some form of trend analysis which I have attempted to do in this thread. I will continue to update the BFL forum posting and then cross post the results here for the rest of September.

To see the post on the BFL forum with color please go here: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/hardware-discussion/4570-where-we-going.html#post57018

Feature Request

Pending deposits of Digital Currencies with number of confirmations required to go before final

Glad to hear you are a 'regular' guy.

Please consider the following list of 'to do's'

• Remind anyone you see that we need actual unit production/shipped numbers and that using paydates as a bench mark is completely absurd. It is possible to restore trust but they need to at least give us a reach around as a first step....
  
  
• Tell us if the production manager is a real human. Anytime I ask Josh about the magical end of September clearance of the backlog date he says I will have to ask the elusive Production Manager, Mr Goodacre.
  
  Ask what order date constitutes the end of the backlog.
  
  Give Josh another bag of dicks as I think he ate the other one from Xian. (more likely he had it framed)
  
  

TY - the trouble is that BFL refuses to define what the remaining backlog consists of in terms of units. The only thing they have consistently provided is the paydates shipped which (especially if you have a manufacturing background) is next to useless. The ONLY thing I could think of that made sense was to identify the trend in terms of the number of paydates they need to ship PER DAY to meet their stated goals.

It would simply be much easier if BFL used the proper metric of the number of units in the pipeline and the number of units shipped per day. If they had a good reason not to (in their mind at least) when they first took this approach it has surely gone by the wayside. I for one would not be the least bit concerned if they changed their mind and actually started to use a real world metric instead of something invented by unicorns 

You ever hear the saying "the trend is your friend"? Here is my approach to measuring the trend in shipping at BFL FWIW

Number of paydates required to be cleared PER DAY For BFL to meet the Sept 30 65 nm backlog deadline

Jalapenos - 8.9 - increasing (bad trend)
Little Singles - 13.6 - increasing
Singles - 17.5 - increasing
Mini Rigs - 20.1 - increasing

Assumptions:
The values are derived solely from information supplied by BFL through Jody's blog updates.
The backlog is to August 19, 2013 which is the 28 nm announcement date
Partial shipments of Minirigs are not counted towards attaining paydate targets (Sept 6, 2013 update marks the first full shipment of a MR)


To view the trends in the numbers of paydates required to be shipped go to (with color and EVERYTHING   ):
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/hardware-discussion/4570-where-we-going.html#post56783

I update this linked post as soon as possible after Jody bestows the info on the proletariat. I will also update this thread with the same information

Awesome! In the meantime I'll be moving my meager LTC business over to you - whats up with 24 confirmations on LTC deposits?

Any chance of adding Canadian $ to the mix? We need some serious competition up here.

Not speaking for Labrat, but I know for a fact that these bond sales are specifically for the purpose of purchasing hardware from individuals (they were paid in bonds). This is reason that hash rate is rising so fast and I think is a genius way to go about it. Anyone who is selling their mining gear to LRM in exchange for bonds clearly has a vested interest in the future success of the company. I trust Zachary to ensure that these purchases are not made at too great a cost. Like anyone else who is waiting on gear to deliver, I know all to well the value of hashing power today versus hashing power "Coming Soon" 

This transaction is intended to take place under the BFL preorder transfer program announced September 7th and which goes live September 10th.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/4726-order-sales-transfer.html You will need to register an account with BFL prior to being able to accept a transfer.

I have a posting on the BFL classifieds with details repeated here. Please use the BFL forum for communications on offers as I will not be responding to or considering price offers on this forum.

Order number 1000211XX placed and paid March 10th 2013 - order includes $88.00 shipping to Canada which can be applied to your shipping requirements. I will also transfer the 16 chip credits FWIW.

No offers under the order price will be contemplated as I will simply take the shipment and mine it myself. This order is the first of many singles I have in the pipeline and I may or may not sell them as well depending on the outcome of this process.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/classifieds.php?do=viewitem&itemid=239

BTC is payment method and escrow is required with release of funds in escrow triggered on the successful transfer of the order.

 I for one appreciate the leaness of LRM compared to other options..... lean and mean.

apparently they do not like much airflow so Zach might want to try them without the fans first

Certainly risk is one component - the other is the factor of returns that miners are realizing now and that these cashflows are diminishing without capex. A further issue is that the capex requirement to maintain the effective rate of hashing in the network going forward is not well established. It will not be until we reach the end state of 14nm. Any miner that is presently in a high cost environment will need to be looking at moving to a low cost jurisdiction likely within the next 12 - 18 months. Lean corporate structures in low tax  AND power cost environments will be have the competitive advantage. While the first movers may have some advantage in regard to upfront cashflow and perhaps earnings, is remains to be seen if this will provide a sustainable advantage given their cost base and the need for gen 5 or 6 reinvestment.

Its a hockey stick model right now and it will be very interesting to see what the plateau will be - it may be sooner than we expect

|| Bit's approach to 'valuation', opaque as it may be, is made with what I assume to be good intention. That said, intention may make a better paving stone on a road to some other place than profits if the facts are not clear.

I remember oh so well the dot com bubble where everyone said that regular business norms did not apply to the internet.... another altogether too well traveled road that we do not want to go down.

In a later, mature state of these investments we will see the standard metrics of 'regular' investments applied. To try and invent some new metric now is foolhardy. Better to make relative comparisons between the offerings and know, to the greatest extent possible, the track record of those involved. Owning several good companies in the cloud mining sector is the wisest move if you believe in this model IMO.

Disclosure: I own LRM shares (and others).

Now that Bitfury is shipping in the US is that promised hashing from Dave being added or is it already on from last week? Did we get in on any august orders or is it all for October?

Remember - LRM is agnostic as to hardware producers..... others (I.E. ASICMINER and ICEDRILL) are not.

Also, I cannot understand for a second how a company like LRM is valued so low compared to ASICMINER, ACTIVEMINING when it is paying much higher dividends.

And, don't get me started about ICEDRILL - going to mine in November (maybe) and has a BTC42,360 market cap.

LRM has a BTC9,318 market cap, is mining now and paying dividends.

Such as smart move for Zach to move to market pricing as his total yield from the IPO should be much greater than anticipated.

He just needs some help communicating this out to the BTC world..... every shareholder should be beating the drum in forums etc to get people to look at this as an option to compare against other cloud miners......

No question in my mind that LRM is the best value going now. 

Current Hashrate and MH/s per bond updated today

695 GH and 600 MH/s based on current bonds issued

http://www.labratmining.com/currentHashrate.html

I emailed Zach on this ..... although he likely already saw it doesn't hurt in case he has not.  It may not make sense in view of what is pending but could if the intent is to sell it back out ASAP - stop gap hashing. Likely too much set up and logistics overhead - not sure he has any hours to burn 

Hmmmm- seems cointerra listened to the market - sure hope LRM got in early on their offering - they have buyer protection on price drops - unlike certain other co's

http://www.coindesk.com/cointerra-cuts-price-of-terraminer-iv-bitcoin-mining-rig/

Looks like volume is holding off until we get more hashing or through this weeks dividend payments. Very few sells posted through to the last batch of 1,000 Lab_Rat released at 0.225