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tom.hashemi
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September 08, 2013, 10:30:47 AM |
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What's up with the price drops?!
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stereotype
Legendary
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Activity: 1554
Merit: 1000
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September 08, 2013, 10:49:17 AM |
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What's up with the price drops?!
Do the maths on your div returns vs purchase price, and then project what increases will be necessary in hash rates, to satisfy your weekly return needs. The figures currently, are extremely poor to many, where even tripling current rates just dont cut it. Try X10+ |
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SimonBelmond
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September 08, 2013, 12:09:45 PM |
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Will LabRat invest in bitmine.ch 28nm technology?
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mmmerlin
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September 08, 2013, 12:27:43 PM |
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What's up with the price drops?!
I wouldn't pay them any mind whatsoever. With so few buy orders and the way BitFunder does its graphing, if just one person wants to sell of anything but a very small number of bonds then the price will necessarily look like it's sliding down a lot as they fill orders all the way down the buy list. However, this does not really define the market price, and the next person who wants to buy a bond has to jump back over the huge spread that's been created, causing the price to jump right back up, as has already happened. It's basically a property of having a low volume market and BitFunder doing their graphing in a slightly misleading way. Also, they don't do their depth graphs cumulatively, what is up with that?! |
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mmmerlin
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September 08, 2013, 12:58:15 PM |
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What's up with the price drops?!
Also, there's always a bit of a temporary slump just after the dividends are paid |
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tom.hashemi
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September 08, 2013, 01:01:03 PM |
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What's up with the price drops?!
I wouldn't pay them any mind whatsoever. With so few buy orders and the way BitFunder does its graphing, if just one person wants to sell of anything but a very small number of bonds then the price will necessarily look like it's sliding down a lot as they fill orders all the way down the buy list. However, this does not really define the market price, and the next person who wants to buy a bond has to jump back over the huge spread that's been created, causing the price to jump right back up, as has already happened. It's basically a property of having a low volume market and BitFunder doing their graphing in a slightly misleading way. Also, they don't do their depth graphs cumulatively, what is up with that?! Agreed, but nearly 800 shares being sold at under 0.2 - is that LabRat putting more on the market or someone selling off? |
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tgerring
Full Member
Offline
Activity: 142
Merit: 100
Hive/Ethereum
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September 08, 2013, 01:08:48 PM |
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For any individual who would like to purchase direct from me, you may purchase bonds at market average for the day. If you would like to buy 500+ bonds I will give a 5% discount. 1000+ bonds will receive 10% off bonds. and 1500+ will receive a 15% discount on their bond purchase. This deal will give investors a little deal if they are looking to make a sizable purchase, and these purchases will be going toward expanding LRM's incoming mass or hardware. If you are interested in this deal please email me at labrat@labratmining.com.  |
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mmmerlin
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September 08, 2013, 01:32:47 PM |
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What's up with the price drops?!
I wouldn't pay them any mind whatsoever. With so few buy orders and the way BitFunder does its graphing, if just one person wants to sell of anything but a very small number of bonds then the price will necessarily look like it's sliding down a lot as they fill orders all the way down the buy list. However, this does not really define the market price, and the next person who wants to buy a bond has to jump back over the huge spread that's been created, causing the price to jump right back up, as has already happened. It's basically a property of having a low volume market and BitFunder doing their graphing in a slightly misleading way. Also, they don't do their depth graphs cumulatively, what is up with that?! Agreed, but nearly 800 shares being sold at under 0.2 - is that LabRat putting more on the market or someone selling off? Those aren't being by sold LR, so it must be someone else. That said, they're not sold yet, and if they start selling at that price they may well relist them slightly higher... Also, from the update it could be someone trying to manipulate the market price down a bit in order to be able to buy the bonds off LR for less, though I haven't actually bothered to run the numbers to see if this would be worthwhile, but from what I was saying before about how the low volume makes the price appear very volatile my guess is it might actually be a manipulation worth attempting... Not cool really. |
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maqifrnswa
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September 08, 2013, 02:02:26 PM |
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For any individual who would like to purchase direct from me, you may purchase bonds at market average for the day. If you would like to buy 500+ bonds I will give a 5% discount. 1000+ bonds will receive 10% off bonds. and 1500+ will receive a 15% discount on their bond purchase. This deal will give investors a little deal if they are looking to make a sizable purchase, and these purchases will be going toward expanding LRM's incoming mass or hardware. If you are interested in this deal please email me at labrat@labratmining.com. eh, it almost doesn't matter. We've already priced in the lack of transparency, no board of directors, no actual shares of the company -- this is just another level of lack of transparency (how many shares are sold like this, what percentage goes to what hardware, what percentage utilities, what percentage management fees). So far LabRat has shown to at least be honest and working hard at making this venture successful so it's still worth it to me (although the lack of transparency introduces sustainability fears: is 25% reinvestment enough? Are there further dilution plans in case it is not? Will he arbitrarily increase the reserve percentage? With no board of directors and no shares of stock in the company, we're completely at his whim. He could decide tomorrow to stop giving dividends or sell 20% more shares... He probably won't, though.) |
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mmmerlin
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September 08, 2013, 02:04:20 PM |
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What's up with the price drops?!
I wouldn't pay them any mind whatsoever. With so few buy orders and the way BitFunder does its graphing, if just one person wants to sell of anything but a very small number of bonds then the price will necessarily look like it's sliding down a lot as they fill orders all the way down the buy list. However, this does not really define the market price, and the next person who wants to buy a bond has to jump back over the huge spread that's been created, causing the price to jump right back up, as has already happened. It's basically a property of having a low volume market and BitFunder doing their graphing in a slightly misleading way. Also, they don't do their depth graphs cumulatively, what is up with that?! Agreed, but nearly 800 shares being sold at under 0.2 - is that LabRat putting more on the market or someone selling off? Those aren't being by sold LR, so it must be someone else. That said, they're not sold yet, and if they start selling at that price they may well relist them slightly higher... Also, from the update it could be someone trying to manipulate the market price down a bit in order to be able to buy the bonds off LR for less, though I haven't actually bothered to run the numbers to see if this would be worthwhile, but from what I was saying before about how the low volume makes the price appear very volatile my guess is it might actually be a manipulation worth attempting... Not cool really. See - they're all gone, and not by being sold! I don't know what that person is playing at, but they're not sold until they're sold! All that can really be said is that someone with quite a lot of shares at least temporarily wanted to risk selling an awful lot for quite cheap. Guesswork as to their motivation I will leave for now though...   |
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mmmerlin
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September 08, 2013, 02:10:08 PM |
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For any individual who would like to purchase direct from me, you may purchase bonds at market average for the day. If you would like to buy 500+ bonds I will give a 5% discount. 1000+ bonds will receive 10% off bonds. and 1500+ will receive a 15% discount on their bond purchase. This deal will give investors a little deal if they are looking to make a sizable purchase, and these purchases will be going toward expanding LRM's incoming mass or hardware. If you are interested in this deal please email me at labrat@labratmining.com. eh, it almost doesn't matter. We've already priced in the lack of transparency, no board of directors, no actual shares of the company -- this is just another level of lack of transparency (how many shares are sold like this, what percentage goes to what hardware, what percentage utilities, what percentage management fees). So far LabRat has shown to at least be honest and working hard at making this venture successful so it's still worth it to me (although the lack of transparency introduces sustainability fears: is 25% reinvestment enough? Are there further dilution plans in case it is not? Will he arbitrarily increase the reserve percentage? With no board of directors and no shares of stock in the company, we're completely at his whim. He could decide tomorrow to stop giving dividends or sell 20% more shares... He probably won't, though.) It's not as bad as you make out, though I totally understand where you're coming from. He's a real person (identity known) incorporated as a real company in a country with functioning legal system operating in a field in which the last thing he wants is to attract legal enquiry. He won't stop paying dividends because a) he is honest, but also b) it really wouldn't be in his best interests. Contracts have been posted online and in person outlining at least some obligations, however vague they may be stated. The last thing he wants is hundreds of angry bitcoiners sueing him. The lack of transparency is a complex issue with two sides to it, and I understand your concern, but as far as him just shutting up shop and there being nothing that could be done about it, that's really not a problem. |
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tom.hashemi
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September 08, 2013, 02:12:09 PM |
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See - they're all gone, and not by being sold! I don't know what that person is playing at, but they're not sold until they're sold! All that can really be said is that someone with quite a lot of shares at least temporarily wanted to risk selling an awful lot for quite cheap. Guesswork as to their motivation I will leave for now though... Strange huh! |
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mmmerlin
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September 08, 2013, 02:17:46 PM |
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See - they're all gone, and not by being sold! I don't know what that person is playing at, but they're not sold until they're sold! All that can really be said is that someone with quite a lot of shares at least temporarily wanted to risk selling an awful lot for quite cheap. Guesswork as to their motivation I will leave for now though... Strange huh! Yeah, pretty confusing behaviour... There's only 10 people who it could be, but sadly they are pseudonymous... |
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maqifrnswa
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September 08, 2013, 02:26:35 PM |
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It's not as bad as you make out, though I totally understand where you're coming from.
He's a real person (identity known) incorporated as a real company in a country with functioning legal system operating in a field in which the last thing he wants is to attract legal enquiry.
He won't stop paying dividends because a) he is honest, but also b) it really wouldn't be in his best interests. Contracts have been posted online and in person outlining at least some obligations, however vague they may be stated. The last thing he wants is hundreds of angry bitcoiners sueing him. The lack of transparency is a complex issue with two sides to it, and I understand your concern, but as far as him just shutting up shop and there being nothing that could be done about it, that's really not a problem.
I know he's honest and is working hard, I really don't think he'll close up shop -- it's just that our contracts are solely backed by the good will and faith of LabRat. If he has financial problems and the business model is not sustainable, we won't see it coming. I've seen so many start-ups with good intentions run by good people fail, even with proper checks and transparency. I'm confident he knows about bitcoin, mining, how to get hardware -- but running a sustainable business is something else. This model is something a VC wouldn't go anywhere near (the way the bonds are currently structured), but might work out well for investors anyways... BTW, suing won't do anything if an LLC goes bankrupt... Those laws you think are protecting you are actually protecting LabRat, you are an unsecured creditor... |
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mmmerlin
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September 08, 2013, 02:43:13 PM |
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It's not as bad as you make out, though I totally understand where you're coming from.
He's a real person (identity known) incorporated as a real company in a country with functioning legal system operating in a field in which the last thing he wants is to attract legal enquiry.
He won't stop paying dividends because a) he is honest, but also b) it really wouldn't be in his best interests. Contracts have been posted online and in person outlining at least some obligations, however vague they may be stated. The last thing he wants is hundreds of angry bitcoiners sueing him. The lack of transparency is a complex issue with two sides to it, and I understand your concern, but as far as him just shutting up shop and there being nothing that could be done about it, that's really not a problem.
I know he's honest and is working hard, I really don't think he'll close up shop -- it's just that our contracts are solely backed by the good will and faith of LabRat. If he has financial problems and the business model is not sustainable, we won't see it coming. I've seen so many start-ups with good intentions run by good people fail, even with proper checks and transparency. I'm confident he knows about bitcoin, mining, how to get hardware -- but running a sustainable business is something else. This model is something a VC wouldn't go anywhere near (the way the bonds are currently structured), but might work out well for investors anyways... BTW, suing won't do anything if an LLC goes bankrupt... Those laws you think are protecting you are actually protecting LabRat, you are an unsecured creditor... Yeah, that's probably fair...  |
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Lab_Rat (OP)
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September 08, 2013, 05:17:58 PM |
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It's not as bad as you make out, though I totally understand where you're coming from.
He's a real person (identity known) incorporated as a real company in a country with functioning legal system operating in a field in which the last thing he wants is to attract legal enquiry.
He won't stop paying dividends because a) he is honest, but also b) it really wouldn't be in his best interests. Contracts have been posted online and in person outlining at least some obligations, however vague they may be stated. The last thing he wants is hundreds of angry bitcoiners sueing him. The lack of transparency is a complex issue with two sides to it, and I understand your concern, but as far as him just shutting up shop and there being nothing that could be done about it, that's really not a problem.
I know he's honest and is working hard, I really don't think he'll close up shop -- it's just that our contracts are solely backed by the good will and faith of LabRat. If he has financial problems and the business model is not sustainable, we won't see it coming. I've seen so many start-ups with good intentions run by good people fail, even with proper checks and transparency. I'm confident he knows about bitcoin, mining, how to get hardware -- but running a sustainable business is something else. This model is something a VC wouldn't go anywhere near (the way the bonds are currently structured), but might work out well for investors anyways... BTW, suing won't do anything if an LLC goes bankrupt... Those laws you think are protecting you are actually protecting LabRat, you are an unsecured creditor... I can assure you I have left enough cushion to keep the company running for a long time. I left this cushion to ensure the stability of the company while it is getting going, and once stable the cushion will be used to purchase further hardware. I have showed my honesty by securing hardware and paying out dividends at a rate faster than the growth of difficulty, so if you choose not to believe my words still, just wait and see as the company grows. I have secured multiple TH with more on the way and a large deal in the works to launch LRM far past the 10TH guaranteed minimum. I'm excited to see where this goes and hope other people are as excited as I am. |
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Pale Phoenix
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September 08, 2013, 05:49:01 PM |
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As far as the panic sale last night, it looks to me like someone may have been spooked by Lab Rat's announcement of further share issuance, even though that's always been the plan. There were some panic selloffs in other stocks too, so an alternate explanation is that someone was trying to free up capital for one of the many IPO's coming up. Of course, these things are magnified by low liquidity and thin order books, and that problem will likely get worse as more companies offer shares. There are only so many BTC playing in these equity / bond markets. A strong stomach is definitely an asset in this game.  |
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mmmerlin
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September 08, 2013, 07:19:30 PM |
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It's not as bad as you make out, though I totally understand where you're coming from.
He's a real person (identity known) incorporated as a real company in a country with functioning legal system operating in a field in which the last thing he wants is to attract legal enquiry.
He won't stop paying dividends because a) he is honest, but also b) it really wouldn't be in his best interests. Contracts have been posted online and in person outlining at least some obligations, however vague they may be stated. The last thing he wants is hundreds of angry bitcoiners sueing him. The lack of transparency is a complex issue with two sides to it, and I understand your concern, but as far as him just shutting up shop and there being nothing that could be done about it, that's really not a problem.
I know he's honest and is working hard, I really don't think he'll close up shop -- it's just that our contracts are solely backed by the good will and faith of LabRat. If he has financial problems and the business model is not sustainable, we won't see it coming. I've seen so many start-ups with good intentions run by good people fail, even with proper checks and transparency. I'm confident he knows about bitcoin, mining, how to get hardware -- but running a sustainable business is something else. This model is something a VC wouldn't go anywhere near (the way the bonds are currently structured), but might work out well for investors anyways... BTW, suing won't do anything if an LLC goes bankrupt... Those laws you think are protecting you are actually protecting LabRat, you are an unsecured creditor... I can assure you I have left enough cushion to keep the company running for a long time. I left this cushion to ensure the stability of the company while it is getting going, and once stable the cushion will be used to purchase further hardware. I have showed my honesty by securing hardware and paying out dividends at a rate faster than the growth of difficulty, so if you choose not to believe my words still, just wait and see as the company grows. I have secured multiple TH with more on the way and a large deal in the works to launch LRM far past the 10TH guaranteed minimum. I'm excited to see where this goes and hope other people are as excited as I am. I don't think anyone was doubting you, just speculating. This is bitcointalk.org after all  |
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fractal02
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September 08, 2013, 07:50:10 PM |
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LabRat is a real pro. I know my bonds and bitcoins are in the right hands All speculation here is absolutely laughtable. Thin foil hat style. Bonds market ? no ? anyone ? We have some players in this kind of market, who make Day-trading. Buying at 0.15 cashout at 0.22. Profit ? almost 45%... 45% ! (in few days). If you know how Exchange market and all the derivative products works, this kind of movement is pretty usual. Some are for the short run...other for the long In others words : Cheap LRM bonds !!! Time to buy more |
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bittymitty
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September 08, 2013, 10:28:10 PM |
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Hi Labrat,
Are you going to declare when you make private sales of shares? My main concern is that you could sell the shares privately for an undisclosed amount and massively devalue our share holdings without us knowing. I have a record of the shares held per key and I have seen two new holders in the last few days(these were not there last week as per my records).
LabRatMining 5,087 18whVGfLcTnXva7rFGqwr6DkW1RzS3zJb1
LabRatMining 2,491 1EGiTu5sz89jjvcoy2FdQNpuks3sPTNn8q
I have not seen this amount traded on Bitfunder? At the current rate this is worth aprox 1500 btc!
If these were bought at market rate then this is good news and should mean a massive increase in hashing power even if we do take a bit hit per dividend in the short term.
I guess some more transparency in sales outside of Bitfunder would be nice otherwise I am left to speculate about this...
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