No problem.

I'm sorry if I came off as agitated in that post, I am not in the least bit! I was expecting that question sooner or later like I said, so I just wanted to explain my thought process thoroughly so everyone understood. 

If my fees do turn out to be outrageous and I make a killing, I will be more than happy to reimburse the group for the excessive fees, I just wanted to make sure I didn't operate this with a net loss like my previous group buy.

Thanks,

Ch

Thank you for all of your feedback thus far.

I am going to put a minimum number on people interested before I start collecting funds, because I do not want to start collecting funds and have to refund everyone due to lack of interest. I'm looking for at least 20 people interested before any funds are collected, so far I've got 3 people interested.

So, 17 more people needed and I will hammer out the details in the OP and start taking orders.

Yes, I agree.

However, I used the shipping estimates that are provided by each manufacturer. I don't think it's fair that I speculate on how late each company might be, considering there is hardly any information about the inner workings of each company and it is anyone's guess at this point.

I make no guarantees that these dates are accurate, we will be at the mercy of the manufacturer.

Hi,

I knew this would come up sooner or later.  

After doing my first group buy (the hardware is arriving Wednesday), I have learned many things.  I lacked the foresight to include the internet bill and commercial rent into the terms and only charged a flat 3% fee. Because Avalon delayed almost 3 months, I will now most likely be operating my first group buy at a net loss .

In my opinion, a lot of these newer group buy administrators are going to run into the same thing. If the manufacturer delays months, or if difficulty sky rockets, they will not be able to operate profitably on a 3%-5% all expenses included fee (some will even likely operate at a net loss, like I am with my first group buy).

So, to make a group buy worth my time, I have structured this group buy so that I am covered if the manufacturer delays, difficulty skyrockets, etc... Group buys take a lot of time to do share transfers and communicate with the group buy participants, and do other random housekeeping.

No offense, but I do not work for free. I am operating my first group buy at a loss and eating the costs because I am a man of my word. If I am to host a second group buy, I need to make sure I'm operating with a profit... I'm not going to go broke hosting mining hardware for random people on an internet forum.

I hope you understand, I think some of the other group buy guys are just inexperienced when setting their fees and terms. It is possible that I could lower the 5% fee a bit.. maybe down to 3% or 4%. The OP is somewhat of a rough draft.

Thanks for your interest,

Ch

EDIT: Now that I had the chance to look over Soniq's offering, it seems he has almost the exact same fee structure as in my OP (BTC Mined - expenses - 5% fee). So, I guess I don't get what you're asking when you say "How are you're going to keep the share cost (in terms of GH/BTC) below that of Soniq's Bitfury GB?", because we have very similar terms.

... I forgot to make the customary reserved post... 

<reserved>

The Plan:
Let’s face it, at this point we don’t know who out of the vaporware vendors will deliver on time, or if they will ever deliver at all. Investing in only one manufacturer’s hardware could leave you sitting on the sidelines and missing out on huge profits (see early BFL customers vs. early Avalon customers). I am proposing to spearhead a new type of group buy that would diversify invested funds for the purpose of mining Bitcoins. By buying mining hardware from multiple manufacturers, I aim to reduce the variance and risks associated with buying vaporware.

Not only am I making the best effort to diversify they group’s investment funds, but I have chosen the cheapest products ($ per Gh) from three manufacturers that I think are not scams. All three companies have similar shipping projections (September/October/November.) Also, all products to be ordered are built on small process nodes, ensuring that we will have an energy efficient mining operation, leaving us profitable even after Avalon 1st gen chips become unprofitable (and others built on larger process nodes.)

With that said, I am suggesting we invest in the following products from the following manufacturers:
- Bitfury 400 Gh Kit (October Delivery) - $8000 usd
- KNC Miner Jupiter 400Gh (September Delivery) - $7000 usd
- VMC Fast Hash One (Two 256 Gh One Modules) (October/November Delivery) - $ 7998 usd

Terms:
1 BTC invested = 1/X portion of profits from all mining machines combined
(X being the total amount invested on all equipment)

Products will be bought in the order they are listed. (As soon as $8000 is raised, a Bitfury 400 Gh will be bought. After that, as soon as $7000 is raised, a KNC Miner Jupiter 400 Gh will be ordered. After that, as soon as $7998 is raised, a VMC Fast Hash One will be ordered.) Machines will be ordered using this process until there is no more interest from investors.

I reserve the right to change which products and/or manufacturers we order from in this group buy. I will use my best judgment to pursue the products that are in each investor’s best interest. The mining hardware world is ever changing, perhaps there may be a better deal tomorrow or next week that would suit each investor’s pocketbook better. The group will be notified if I'm contemplating changing/switching/adding a product ordered to gather feedback.

Expenses will be subtracted from each month’s dividend payments using the latest Mt. Gox average for cost calculation. The equipment will be hosted in a shared environment with my previous Avalon Batch 3 group buy. This allows both operations to split the bills to operate as efficiently as possible (monetarily speaking).

The following expenses will be deducted from the BTC mined:
- Electricity costs (both for the mining rigs and air conditioner- calculated by the power used by this group buy versus total power used by both operations.)
- Half rent ($225 usd)
- Half security system with live monitoring ($??) (I’m not sure about the cost on this yet, I am getting the security system installed this week so I will know soon.)
- Half Internet Bill ($40)

After expenses are taken out, I will take out a flat 5% 3.5% hosting fee and then proceed to pay dividends to investors.

The equipment will be hosted on Eligius, allowing for complete transparency (many real time graphs and data for everyone to see), and also added benefit of a 0% pool fee from Eligius.

I am not responsible for hardware manufacturer non delivery under any circumstances. In the event that one manufacturer does not deliver, I will do my best to make sure that each investor’s funds are returned. Obviously this requires some cooperation from the manufacturer, but know that I will go to all lengths necessary to get our money back in the event of non-delivery, (including but not limited) to filing a lawsuit.  Although I will make every effort to provide a safe and appropriate hosting environment, I cannot be held liable for hardware failure and theft of property (including computer security intrusions). Again, I will make every effort possible in these regards.

Share transfers will be allowed, you may sell your shares to anyone you'd like via the forums or any way you'd like. As we've done with our previous group buy, selling shares in the auction sub forum has been probably the best way to do that. I monitor the Auction sub forums occasionally and will pop in and confirm you have the shares to sell. Share transfers will have a cut off date on the 27th day of each month. Whoever owns the stock on that day will receive the whole dividend for that month. Dividends will be payed at the end of each month.

I will keep extensive records of all transactions, share ownership, and share transfers in Excel format. These will be available at all times to all group buy participants after the funds have been collected and equipment ordered. I have worked hard to keep extensive records and maintain proper transparency with my first group buy and I will do the same with this one!

The group buy will have our own forums like my first, where I will provide news and updates and we can discuss all details as a group. I run my group buy like a democracy, I ask the group their opinion on almost every decision I make about the the group buy and our hardware. I tend to settle with the majority, but will in the rare case veto something if deemed extremely necessary.

About Me:
I conducted one of the first (if not THE first) group buys for ASIC hardware on these forums when we ordered seven Batch 3 Avalons. I just received tracking information for my previous group buy, and I would say everyone is generally happy with my service and can attest to my trustworthiness.

Apart from my previous group buy, I have also done over $20,000 worth of transactions on these forums without any problems at all. I have both bought and sold products and services numerous times on these forums and am as trustworthy as they come.

What I Need From You:
Please reply if you are interested in investing into this group buy. I am only judging interest in this right now, and will setup an ordering procedure in the near future if enough people are interested. Opinions on my investment plan and any changes you would make are more than welcome.

Thank you for your time,

Ch

Oh ok, thanks. That's what I thought it meant, but I wasn't sure if maybe DHL's website had a delay in updating shipping information. You have good luck!  

Happy hashing!

Did you guys call DHL to figure this out, or does it tell you that when you enter the tracking information on the DHL website?

I ask because mine only says "shipping information received" when I enter the tracking number. I'm just wondering if I could have a surprise delivery monday/tuesday.

So, have any group buy operators heard if they will be able to reorder USB miners for .1 BTC like BTCGuild is offering?

It would suck if the group buy administrators are not allowed to have the same deal as BTCGuild. It screws all the people that bought from group buys and unfairly rewards everyone that bought from BTCGuild...

FWIW, even though I received a tracking number for all of my orders, DHL shows it as only "shipping information received" and it doesn't seem like it is on its way yet. I hope I'm wrong about that and the DHL website is just slow to update on weekends, but it seems like they haven't left China yet or even been received by DHL.

Good luck Goat,

I think Smoothie's prices are outrageous, so perhaps I will buy a physical Litecoin here instead. I am looking forward to seeing the designs! Let me know if I can be of any more help.

Take it easy,

Ch

Just let TRC die already IMO

Most normal people can't wrap their head around Bitcoin. I've tried explaining it to many people for hours and they still have no idea what I'm talking about.

These are not stupid people I'm trying to explain it to either- these are people with college degrees and successful businessmen. I think it is the technical (geeky) side of Bitcoin that is really a huge hurdle that most people can't overcome to understand Bitcoin easily without doing a lot of research on the subject.

Bitcoin certainly needs to become easier to use/understand to go mainstream.

I wouldn't just assume it is a prank.

Your computer might be compromised, and the intruder just decided to mess with you for a while. Make sure to reformat and reinstall the OS and get a good anti-virus. The descriptions of the symptoms you are having seems right in line with a lot of the things Trojan Horses (a hacker tool) can do.

Especially if you do anything related to Bitcoin on this computer, get it secured fast before your Bitcoins disappear and your bank account is emptied. 

This is a mystery.

Many people have reported receiving a random transaction of 0.001 BTC. Who is sending 0.001 to random addresses and why is anyone's guess at this point.

There are a lot of trolls on these forums and on the internet in general. Weird guys pretend to be girls all the time.. not sure why.

You've gotta be careful around here, there are a lot of scammers and untrustworthy people. My first rule of thumb is to trust no one until they have proven themselves trustworthy. Be careful about conducting transactions with people on here, escrow exists for a reason.

One of my rigs stopped working one day. The power was off, so I turned the power on from the Mobo and instantly sparks started shooting out of the power cable, close to where it was connected to the PSU. It looked like one of those fountain fireworks, but on a smaller scale. It surprised the crap out of me.

Moral of the story: don't buy low gauge cheap Ebay c13 to c14 cables from China

I imagine it is more time consuming for them to test an Avalon ordered without a PSU, because there is an added step of removing the PSU after the burn-in and reassembling the case.

I received tracking info for all my Batch 3 orders this morning.

At least 48Th is coming online from Avalon Batch 3 in the next 7-14 days. (48Th not counting 4 module versions.)

This will add at least a %20 increase to the current difficulty. Add in 4 module versions and BFL, a possible network increase of %35 in the next 7-14 days. (this is a guess)

Sorry to those who still haven't received shipping info. Keep faith.

For me, it feels like I'm having Christmas in July receiving tracking info! Christmas in May would have been a lot more exciting, but nonetheless I am happy that everything is finally on its way!