Yes. Increasing loan request to 3000-6000 BTC, I want this place to be nice, it will be worth it.
If you're going to try to borrow between $36,000 and $72,000, you're going to need to come up with some verifiable numbers for your start up costs rather than rough estimates based on guesses. |
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I know nothing about running a small business, but common sense tells me that selecting furniture would come after all of the above. Probably long after.
You can certainly design a theme before doing the other stuff, and the theme you choose may even influence the type of property suitable for your venture. What you can't do, though, is focus on the cosmetic stuff to the exclusion of the practical stuff. There's no point in him choosing furniture for this particular property if it's going to cost him $50,000 to build it out to required standards. |
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I agree with earlier sentiment that this money was probably gone a while ago anyway.
If that's true then why does he still bother to show up and threaten people? It would take quite a while to sell off that much BTC, and it's not like he can spend it on anything until it's fiat. What makes you believe that he wasn't selling the majority of it as it came in? |
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You are thinking about furniture when you haven't even secured a location or have a floor plan? Yikes!   To be honest, I wouldn't want him to secure the location until it's been inspected out the wazoo, he's absolutely sure that he can use it for his intended purpose, and he has firm quotes on exactly how much it will cost to built out to the standard required by various regulations which will affect his business. He definitely needs the plans, though, as well as detailed information on the specific requirements for toilets, food preparation areas, ventilation, fire exits, licensed capacity, noise control, etc. |
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Did they demo an asic at the london conf? Any pics or vids or indy person verifying this?
IIRC, the Mechanical Turk ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Turk) was demo'd for decades. Ditto countless 'free energy' type devices though they tended to have a shorter life expectancy for various reasons. The conference seems to have been attended by a fair number of legitimately skilled persons. (Any hardware guys?) It'll be interesting to know their observations if they have any to share. I think there were a couple of auctions for a prototype single as well as a mini-rig and a drawing for a jalapeno. Unfortunately, one working demo model or prototype doesn't prove the existence of hundreds of machines which are built to the same specifications and which will work as promised day in day out. |
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Adding beach theme to hookah bar. Will setup subs to make rumbling wave sounds. Wall will be the ocean.
How much work have you done on properly researching your start-up costs this week? |
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Especially when he can make a crapload of money by just running his business as he has been doing.
TL'DR It makes absolutely no sense to assume this is a scam.
Just because a business is taking in a crapload of money doesn't mean that it's profitable. We have no idea what financial obligations BFL has, so you can't assume that they're making a ton of money based on the amount they've collected for pre-orders. Most new businesses don't become profitable for a number of years. The non-disclosure about Sonny's past wasn't an oversight. BFL knew damned well that people would be less likely to place pre-orders with the company if they knew of Sonny's past transgressions. So the question of whether there's anything else they're hiding now arises and it's a legitimate one. Maybe they're legitimate and maybe they're not, but the onus is now firmly on them to provide proof of their legitimacy and especially to back up their previous statement that pre-orders are not being used to fund ASIC development. If there's any way in which BFL customers have been misled (and it appears that they have been regarding quality control), now is the time to come clean. People will forgive any past deceptions if the whole truth is revealed now and BFL delivers their product up to standard and on time. They'll be far less forgiving if the product doesn't live up to expectations and it's later revealed that the company's responses to user questions were either misleading or outright untrue. |
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somebody should seriously lock and delete this thread and im not kidding.
Why? Is he one of those nasty "associates" of yours that you're always talking about? Maybe you should start looking for connections between Maria and Sonny, Phin. |
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To be honest- at this point BFL is a functioning company with R&D costs like any other. If this new revelation explains anything, I think it more likely explains why they needed to offer pre-orders: with a history of Mail Fraud it might be impossible for BFL to get outside venture capital, or even borrow money from the bank, thus the community pre-order's bankroll the next iteration of equipment.
Inaba stated that that preorders were not used to fund development and that outside investments (VC, etc) were taken. It's a condition of Sonny's parole that he has to make available to his parole officer the financial records of any business enterprise with which he's involved. If they're telling the truth about development not being funded by pre-orders, Sonny's parole officer should be able to confirm that by reviewing BFL's financial records. |
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Good to see the community is finally starting to look out for itself.
It's a pity that this due diligence wasn't done until after BFL took so many pre-orders. This community needs to learn to do its research before blindly handing over money to new players. |
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At some point after that it became clear to him that he could use my company's software system and sportsbook license to clarify legality and allow his customers to bet on the outcome of a lottery without buying a lottery ticket. . So instead of "I bet the Giants win by 7", it's "I bet the NY Lottery pick 3 is 4-7-2".
It was a roaring success.
Welcome to a mob-style numbers racket. Sonny, I really only have one question for you. Your parole conditions place restrictions on you operating certain types of businesses and soliciting funds without the express permission of your parole officer. Can you provide evidence that your parole officer is aware of your involvement in BFL and has given express permission for you to undertake all activities associated with it? If you're truly "turning your life around", then I would presume that you have no wish to violate your parole conditions. Evidence that you're complying with those conditions might reassure people that your intention truly is to make a fresh start in a legitimate business enterprise. |
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out of many things, I am the oldest miner in the forum.
You didn't even know how to download the blockchain when you first joined this forum. There are plenty of people who were mining long before you were. Time to up your meds - you're delusional again. |
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FYI, we're not arguing that they're the same. Some evidence (not convincingly much) indicates that they are related.
The important question is whether the Chris Vleisides who is the president/director of BFL is actually Sonny Chris Vleisides the convicted felon. It's already been confirmed by BFL that Sonny works there, so it seems highly likely that they're one and the same. There's no reason to believe that Chris the photographer is associated with Sonny or BFL in any way, though |
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actually ,he had very little posts on the forum when the PPT guys were recruiting fresh accounts .........
It's hard to know how much he encouraged the setting up of pass-throughs behind the scenes. Quote from: chungenhung on 09 February 2012, 14:14:14
OP, since you will only accept referrals, then are you saying current lenders can advertise it on the forum?
I know you have strict rules about that in the past when things got heated up with ineeduser* As long as they are dealing with me directly I am fine with it. What I don't want to see is people advertising that they can lend through them to me. In April, his attitude changed and he formally "allowed" the operation of PPTs. The big issue early on was the attack by established members being able to force out new members. I don't condone an unfriendly environment so I made it very clear early on that it was not something I was willing to deal with. As FPS&T has grown, it has become much easier to handle large investors managing smaller accounts than me handling them directly. So, I've allowed established lenders to grow their own market with the following in mind.
And I need to make this very clear...
At this point FPS&T has become a true bank in almost every sense of the word. So, like a bank would protect it's account holders from the outside, FPS&T will do the same to it's members. The commitment between FPS&T and it's account holders is directly with one another. No outside organization can access, freeze, suspend or speak on behalf of anyone but the account holder. I have no responsibility to anyone except the account holder and they're responsible for deposits and withdrawals made to and from their account. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.msg840854#msg840854After that point, pirate no longer needed to have any direct involvement in the solicitation of funds. |
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Just posting this here as evidence that (Sonny) Chris Vleisides is listed as President/Director of the company on documents filed with the Wyoming Secretary of State, in case there's any attempt to pass him off as a minor employee. https://wyobiz.wy.gov/Business/FilingDetails.aspx?eFNum=149144214231010201167112190255028042109060235081Click on the "Parties" tab. Given these conditions of his parole, it is reasonable to ask Sonny to produce evidence that he has the permission of his probation officer to undertake BFL activities. 3. The defendant shall not engage, as whole or partial owner, employee or otherwise, in any business involving loan programs, gambling or gaming activities, telemarketing activities, investment programs or any other business involving the solicitation of funds or cold-calls to customers without the express approval of the Probation Officer prior to engagement in such employment. Further, the defendant shall provide the Probation Officer with access to any and all business records, client lists and other records pertaining to the operation of any business owned, in whole or in part, by the defendant, as directed by the Probation Officer; 14. as directed by the probation officer, the defendant shall notify third parties of risks that may be occasioned by the defendant's criminal record or personal history or characteristics, and shall permit the probation officer to make such notifications and to conform the defendant's compliance with such notification requirement; http://ca.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.20100915_0004129.CCA.htm/qxIf Sonny's probation officer knew that BFL was soliciting funds and did not direct him to notify BFL users as per 14, the question of why needs to be answered. That's a pretty significant oversight. |
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I'm almost tempted to write up a complete cost analysis, but after seeing what Ant caught attitude wise, I'm hesitant.
Dank, if you promise to cut the attitude, provide a minimum of info (IIRC you're in Cali, right?) and apologize to the people you gave sass to, I'll consider it.
<-- third year accounting student
I really hope dank takes you up on this offer. I'm very interested in seeing how many "hidden" costs there are. |
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I'm almost tempted to write up a complete cost analysis, but after seeing what Ant caught attitude wise, I'm hesitant.
Dank, if you promise to cut the attitude, provide a minimum of info (IIRC you're in Cali, right?) and apologize to the people you gave sass to, I'll consider it.
<-- third year accounting student
God I hope he's not in California. They have lots of laws related to indoor smoking which have to be complied with in order for a hookah lounge to operate legally, including labour laws. |
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Here's an idea of which your real money will come from, but first the back story.  When I first moved to Jackson, Tennessee, in 1985, and visited for the first time a bar, I was taken aback by all those who BYOB, paying for the set-ups as they were referred to at the time. They didn't have liquor by the drink back then. That shared, here's the idea, but really works if the ambiance of Dank's is appealing. Your mixologists serve up fancy mixed drinks, sans the alcohol, at a premium and what the market will bear. The patrons take it from there. (enough said) And to expand upon the peanut idea, free imported Iranian pistachios, encouraging your guest to toss the spent shells onto the floor. Here's your chess set:  Here's your nightly entertainment:  Here's your profit:  Anything less is just...  The idea's not a bad one, but many states have incredibly strict regulations about the type of food and beverages which can be served in an indoor smoking venue, especially with regard to any food or beverages prepared on the premises. One of the hookah lounge owners who posts on one of the hookah forums was saying that he can only legally prepare coffee by certain methods and any food he serves has to be pre-prepared elsewhere. This is why dank needs to find out all of the regulations which will affect the operation of his business - mixing drinks on the premises might not even be an option where he lives. And while nuts on the floor might be a cute gimmick, it's one more thing which has to be cleaned up at the end of the night - either dank will have to pay someone to do it or he'll have to stay back and do it himself (assuming his local health regulations would even allow it in the first place). There's actually a couple of ME-themed hookah franchises in the US, but dank's budget doesn't really allow for high end chess and backgammon sets and going too "forty thieves" may well discourage the college crowd who might prefer more of a sports bar type theme with live bands, pool tables, air hockey tables, and a couple of televisions mounted on the wall so they can watch the game while they're chilling. Creating any sense of intimacy in a 6000 sqft space would be extremely difficult on a limited budget. He might be better off going for a more spartan, warehouse type theme. |
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A few weeks ago I dined at some franchise that's known for having spent peanut shells on the floor (its name eludes me). You want people to walk in and say to themselves, or out loud, "What the fuck! I like this place already." even before they hear the words, "Welcome to Dank's."
~Bruno~
Lone Star Steakhouse here does the peanut shell thing. Dank has plenty of creative ideas for his establishment. What he doesn't have is an actual business plan and until you've got a successful business up and running, developing plans for franchising that business is just a distraction. There's certainly an abundance of Middle Eastern themed shisha lounges, but that may well be because that's the model which attracts a steady clientèle and is most profitable. That's why researching your target markets is important. If he's aiming primarily at college students, he needs to know not just what will attract them, but what will discourage them from using it as a place to hang out while making minimum purchases. Bums on seats don't make money unless those people are buying something and he's going to need to sell a minimum amount of bowls per day just to break even. Apparently some states don't allow college IDs to be used for the purchase of tobacco products. You need to think about your age verification process if your state is one of them. |
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I realize this, but I'm not in a huge hurry as I don't have the money to lease the property anyways. Should get a response tomorrow, if not, I will keep trying.
Things have to be done in a certain order. I have had 4 business leases so far. In each case you have to have a registered business with the state and business bank account and a DUNS number to even get a lease. You will have to sign at least a 1 year lease (but most likely a 2-3 year). You will have to put down first and last month's rent, as well as a security deposit. So if the lease is $3,000 a month you will most likely have to write a check for at least $7500 on the spot before you can start moving in. Then you have to get your occupancy permit which takes a couple of weeks when the city gets around to it. You have to have the fire dept come and do an inspection of your emergency exits and fire extinguishers. All of this costs money. The City will want money for an alarm permit. Then you have to get and carry premises liability insurance. Expect to pay a nice 3 month down payment on that one - in your case most likely around $300 a month with $1200 due as a down payment. There is also waste disposal. You will need pest control as well. You will need a cleaning service. All of these things can be done now. You can call a cleaning service and get a quote. You can get a quote on a dumpster. You can get an insurance quote. You can start the business registration process and get a business bank account. You can then file for your sales tax permit and tax ID number. But you will never get a business lease if you don't actually have a registered business. That takes time. At least a few months to get your sales and use number as well as your Federal Tax ID number. I have paid the rush fee before and registered businesses less than a month. But it costs more. First rule of business - Double check all of your estimated expenses...then triple them. You also don't want to sign a commercial lease until you know every expense related to fitting out the premises to operate your business. Finding out that the whole place needs rewiring or new plumbing or that the air-conditioning isn't suitable for your business after you've signed the lease is too late. That's why you need to research all the regulations and codes related to operating your intended business before you contemplate signing a lease on a particular property - the rent may be the least of your expenses, and nobody's going to let you out of a lease just because you grossly under-estimated your build-out expenses. |
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