Going after Trendon Shavers, Pirateat40, BTCST

[Raoul Duke]

Can we please stop spreading this outright nonsense.

You're asking too much, don't you think?

[repentance]

Scamming is illegal and committing large-scale fraud over millions of dollars worth of assets is punishable in the US and almost every other country to speak of.

Nobody has argued that scamming is not illegal.  Right now, though, there is no known criminal investigation into pirate's operation.  He can't be prosecuted, convicted and punished for fraud without substantial evidence.  Many users are actively against the idea of trying to initiate a criminal investigation because they believe that it will reduce the chances of recovering their funds even further.  Others are unwilling to send good money after bad by pursuing civil action while it's unclear whether pirate has any ability whatsoever to pay any judgements.

Whether pirate's actions are contractual breaches or criminal offences does not affect whether harassing him or his family is in itself an offence.

[totaleclipseofthebank]

Scamming is illegal and committing large-scale fraud over millions of dollars worth of assets is punishable in the US and almost every other country to speak of.

Nobody has argued that scamming is not illegal.  Right now, though, there is no known criminal investigation into pirate's operation.  He can't be prosecuted, convicted and punished for fraud without substantial evidence.  Many users are actively against the idea of trying to initiate a criminal investigation because they believe that it will reduce the chances of recovering their funds even further.  Others are unwilling to send good money after bad by pursuing civil action while it's unclear whether pirate has any ability whatsoever to pay any judgements.

Whether pirate's actions are contractual breaches or criminal offences does not affect whether harassing him or his family is in itself an offence.

I agree with those points, and think that harassing pirate's family is an utterly cretinous and infantile idea. But, if people want to press charges, they should. They should also report the scheme to the IC3 as a fraudulent internet business, because that's what it is, apparently.

[dancingnancy]

I was thinking about this earlier today.. Don't you think that CIA/FBI have an active interest in this community, just to see what is up with btc?  My guess is that Trendon Shavers is already being looked at.  For all we know he could have been picked up in the meantime. Shit, we did all the work for them essentially, unless they are ahead of the game. Until then, I see no wrong doing in talking to his parents. 

I also agree, charges should be pressed, but ultimately my guess is the FBI/alphabet agency would love to know personally with whom he was dealing with, if he kept records.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I was thinking about this earlier today.. Don't you think that CIA/FBI have an active interest in this community, just to see what is up with btc?  My guess is that Trendon Shavers is already being looked at.  For all we know he could have been picked up in the meantime. Shit, we did all the work for them essentially, unless they are ahead of the game. Until then, I see no wrong doing in talking to his parents. 

I also agree, charges should be pressed, but ultimately my guess is the FBI/alphabet agency would love to know personally with whom he was dealing with, if he kept records.

From this, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for AlphaAg to check and make sure that none of those stolen coins weren't shaved from the pool and converted toward any anti-American concerns.

[thebaron]

I was thinking about this earlier today.. Don't you think that CIA/FBI have an active interest in this community, just to see what is up with btc?  My guess is that Trendon Shavers is already being looked at.  For all we know he could have been picked up in the meantime. Shit, we did all the work for them essentially, unless they are ahead of the game. Until then, I see no wrong doing in talking to his parents. 

I also agree, charges should be pressed, but ultimately my guess is the FBI/alphabet agency would love to know personally with whom he was dealing with, if he kept records.

I think if I was the government, I wouldn't press charges. I wouldn't want any confidence gained in an anonymous currency that's a threat.

[Bitcoin Oz]

At this time bitcoiners are thinly spread around the world so its pretty easy to scam and get away with it because the chances are no one in your town uses bitcoin. Things might change when there is  a reasonable chance that a mob carrying pitchforks will turn up on your doorstep.

This goes to the impersonality of bitcoin where you never really deal with people face to face and its easy to avoid dealing with those you have ripped off.

[thebaron]

This goes to the impersonality of bitcoin where you never really deal with people face to face and its easy to avoid dealing with those you have ripped off.

That's because a lot of consideration exchanged via BTC are for things that aren't exactly legal. I'm speaking of drugs and tax avoidance mainly. If we didn't live in fear of being jailed for victimless crimes if our real identities were to be public for these sort of transactions, then there would be a lot less fraud.

[hgmichna]

I was thinking about this earlier today.. Don't you think that CIA/FBI have an active interest in this community, just to see what is up with btc?  My guess is that Trendon Shavers is already being looked at.  For all we know he could have been picked up in the meantime. Shit, we did all the work for them essentially, unless they are ahead of the game. Until then, I see no wrong doing in talking to his parents. 

I also agree, charges should be pressed, but ultimately my guess is the FBI/alphabet agency would love to know personally with whom he was dealing with, if he kept records.

Parts of the government may indeed be interested in BTC (how to shut it down), but I doubt that they are interested in catching the pirate. I would rather believe that they are interested in having as many pirates as possible, who do the dirty work of denigrating bitcoin for them.

From what I read here, I see three groups of people:

1. Those who have benefitted from the fraud and now help the pirate in various ways, like spreading wrong information, offering bad advice, or simply derailing the threads by filling them up with garbage. I could imagine that some of these are in contact with the pirate and get orders from him. Of course he reads these threads and adjusts his delaying and confusing maneuvers accordingly.

2. Those who still believe in the pirate and hope that he will pay them at least some of their money back. I am sure this is sheer stupidity. Nobody will get paid voluntarily, except perhaps as yet another delaying trick with a small amount.

3. Those who want to bring the pirate to justice. I hope they will succeed, but am not optimistic. I hope this group will organise itself well enough to do it.

The pirate is currently trying to get as many people as possible to hope that they will be paid if they behave. He is trying to play these incredibly gullible people against the others. And, no matter how much I shake my head in disbelief, this actually works.

[coinft]

That is until Shavers keeps records of anyone that contacts his family and countersues for harassment.

That would be a funny thing...

Officer: So, why are they harrasing you and your family?
Trendon: Well, I stole $X,XXX,XXX.XX from them...

It is considered a debt right now.  Theft is taking something without the permission of the owner.  The owners of these bitcoins gave the bitcoins to Shavers voluntarily without any written contract on when it will be paid back.  So now people that gave bitcoins to Shavers are trying to collect a debt he has with them where that debt is in a virtual currency that is not legal tender in any jurisdiction.

People tried to collect the debt under previously agreed upon contract conditions which are not matter of form. That failed. Now it is debt, or fraud.

[Bitcoin Oz]

This goes to the impersonality of bitcoin where you never really deal with people face to face and its easy to avoid dealing with those you have ripped off.

That's because a lot of consideration exchanged via BTC are for things that aren't exactly legal. I'm speaking of drugs and tax avoidance mainly. If we didn't live in fear of being jailed for victimless crimes if our real identities were to be public for these sort of transactions, then there would be a lot less fraud.

I understand completely. That of course means people will be using less than legal methods to recover funds. Its really a two way street and is the same reason you dont rip off a drug dealer.

[dancingnancy]

I was thinking about this earlier today.. Don't you think that CIA/FBI have an active interest in this community, just to see what is up with btc?  My guess is that Trendon Shavers is already being looked at.  For all we know he could have been picked up in the meantime. Shit, we did all the work for them essentially, unless they are ahead of the game. Until then, I see no wrong doing in talking to his parents. 

I also agree, charges should be pressed, but ultimately my guess is the FBI/alphabet agency would love to know personally with whom he was dealing with, if he kept records.

From this, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for AlphaAg to check and make sure that none of those stolen coins weren't shaved from the pool and converted toward any anti-American concerns.

Don't you think the government would want its cut of this money?  $5,000,000 (if real) could be worth looking into, if only to steal it right from pirate and pocket themselves.  I agree with earlier sentiment that this money was probably gone a while ago anyway.

[Haplo]

I agree with earlier sentiment that this money was probably gone a while ago anyway.

If that's true then why does he still bother to show up and threaten people? It would take quite a while to sell off that much BTC, and it's not like he can spend it on anything until it's fiat.

[SysRun]

We know who he is, he's afraid of legal action already in progress. Time will tell.

[repentance]

I agree with earlier sentiment that this money was probably gone a while ago anyway.

If that's true then why does he still bother to show up and threaten people? It would take quite a while to sell off that much BTC, and it's not like he can spend it on anything until it's fiat.

What makes you believe that he wasn't selling the majority of it as it came in?

[dancingnancy]

I agree with earlier sentiment that this money was probably gone a while ago anyway.

If that's true then why does he still bother to show up and threaten people? It would take quite a while to sell off that much BTC, and it's not like he can spend it on anything until it's fiat.

What makes you believe that he wasn't selling the majority of it as it came in?

That was my thinking.  If it was truly the entire time a ruse, then that money is likely gone.  He could have owed people a shitload, or just wasted it on fake tits for his wife that will eventually leave him for another pirate with more booty. 

[stochastic]

That is until Shavers keeps records of anyone that contacts his family and countersues for harassment.

That would be a funny thing...

Officer: So, why are they harrasing you and your family?
Trendon: Well, I stole $X,XXX,XXX.XX from them...

It is considered a debt right now.  Theft is taking something without the permission of the owner.  The owners of these bitcoins gave the bitcoins to Shavers voluntarily without any written contract on when it will be paid back.  So now people that gave bitcoins to Shavers are trying to collect a debt he has with them where that debt is in a virtual currency that is not legal tender in any jurisdiction.

Can we please stop spreading this outright nonsense.

Theft can also be done through fraud by deceiving customers. By your argument, Enron execs should be free of any charges and Madoff would be enjoying his billions on an island somewhere.

Scamming is illegal and committing large-scale fraud over millions of dollars worth of assets is punishable in the US and almost every other country to speak of.

Enron stock isn't legal tender either, but had an easily measurable USD value, just like bitcoins or Pirate deposits.

That is why it is called defrauding and not theft.  Enron stock was also regulated by the Securities and Exchange Commission; bitcoins are regulated by whom?  I wish all of you guys to get bitcoins back though.  Maybe next time you will put in the contract if someone is unable to pay back their debt in bitcoins in X amount of time, they will be held liable for the funds in fiat currency.

[dickroast]

So, did everyone give up or forget about this? Just odd how steady posts were , then suddenly halted.

[deeplink]

So, did everyone give up or forget about this? Just odd how steady posts were , then suddenly halted.

Yeah, everyone found a new investment opportunity with 7% interest per week.

[smoothie]

pirate said wait until oct 12th and the biggest guys all quit on me. i had to do my own thing. i now understand they are interested in starting something up. i wish them luck...

Didn't you just "bet" Psy 1,000 BTC recently? You could use that to get you a half-retarded attorney to help you "find" pirate. LOL use that instead of depending on the "biggest guys" to help you out.