I think you got me wrong. I did not intend to be ironic. I really congratulate Friedcat, he did an epic job, not only for him but for all ASICMiner shareholders. Kudos for him. In fact, I assume that he hasn't got the capacity to quickly produce and ship thousands of units, he has a limited production capacity, and he squeezed the maximum profit from this limited production capacity.

This is how the market works. If he suddenly sees that he is able to produce thousands of units and sell them with a mark-up than allows him to have a bigger profit than mining himself, he will probably do it because he is acting as a clever manager. I think he achieved an optimum equilibrium, his mining op works wonders and each one of his limited units on sale is being sold at a huge mark-up. The truth is that every businesses priority is to maximize profits. If you have money printing machines, you have to squeeze the maximum you can from them, full stop. I don't see how all this changes the fact that the customers of those units will probably lose money. They are willing to pay for it because of either greed or ignorance, so be it. There's no ethics here, just capitalism at work.

True, all that I said is a big picture scenario, Bitcoin is by no means big enough to make a Company like Plus500 to go down. There's really no way.

So enjoy it, my friend

Sure, if somebody steals your money at the exchange (hacker, operator, government) then you lose it. But BTC exchanges are supposed to be playing an honest game: not creating money out of thin air, not running on fractional reserve, etc. All the CFD and derivative stuff it's a scam. Plus500 is just gambling, and gambling with your money. Just like the bankers that hold our fiat, they are just multiplying it gambling with it over and over through scams with fancy names (CFDs, CDSs, etc.). And when they lose their gamble, all the loss is on you, not on them.

If the company go down (but it won't, because Bitcoin it's still too small) is your money they lose. What you funded in their account and all the gains you did not withdrew. Just like when it's your bank that go bankrupt. All money that it's not under your mattress is gone. The individuals running the business have no risk, it's their customers who are risking their money trusting it to a bunch of white collar gambling scammers

And that's why we have Bitcoin

The fact is that shorting with leverage crap is a motherfucking scam. It's just gambling in its purest form, but they are gambling with customers money - if they lose big time and go bust, it's their customers who are left holding the bag. The managers who drive the business are just swimming in money pools and are the same scammers doing the very same tricks that trigger the financial crisis in the modern world.

Did you know that plus500 is owned by UK banks, did you?

Desde luego que hay que tener en cuenta retrasos a la hora de hacerle un pedido a Avalon, la pena es que siempre es más de lo que uno ha previsto. Espero realmente que con los chips no se columpien ya que hay menos pasos intermedios. En este mundo cada segundo que pasa vale más que el que está a punto de llegar, y al menos con los chips no tienen la tentación de "testarlos" minando ellos.

El minero de ASICMiner o un batch #1 de segunda mano son las únicas opciones que hay para conseguir un ASIC de inmediato. Lo malo son los precios, en mi opinión nos estamos aventurado en aguas turbias con esto de los ASIC, llegará un momento en el que habrá dos modelos de negocio:

A) operaciones privadas autofinanciadas (desarrollas la tecnología con tu dinero y minas tú)
B) operaciones financiadas con el propio dinero de los clientes, en plan "bonos" de minería.

Lo cierto es que ni existe ni va a existir jamás la empresa que ofrezca a sus clientes máquinas de imprimir dinero disponibles de forma inmediata y que garanticen un retorno de la inversión seguro y rápido. Las empresas elegirán entre arriesgar el dinero de sus clientes, y en ese caso tendrán que ofrecer algo atractivo; y arriesgar su propio dinero y en ese supuesto sacarán el máximo provecho a su inversión, minando ellos o vendiendo las máquinas de imprimir billetes por más billetes de los que probablemente generen.

Reasonably priced? Nobody ever got back what they spent on them, and probably never will.

3-4 months ROI? How retarded has someone to be to believe that? How do you calculated that ROI timeframe? Considering constant difficulty with no increase whatsoever? That's impossible and one of the dumbest things you can ever consider, and you have the irrefutable proof in the fact that they will not ROI on that timeframe, in fact most of us thought from the beginning that they will mot ROI at all. Only time will tell, but I stand up correct until now.

The units sold out just because there where only a few hundred on stock. Excellent strategy for ASICMiner and their shareholders, they took the maximum profit possible milking:

A) those willing to mine at a loss
B) those willing to resell the units at an even higher price
C) those that know nothing of basic math

Congrats to friedcat, he did it very well considering he had a limited supply and there was a shortage of supply in the market, but saying that those prices are reasonable (meaning they will allow ROI for customers) is plainly and simply retarded.

This. Everybody knew that those blades were hugely overpriced and there was no return in buying them.

Let's be clear. They just sold some dozens of them. Mostly to newcomers. If they were priced reasonably, you would have seen single persons buying hundreds of them and building big set ups based on those units. That didn't happen, because the blades never made any sense from a business point of view except for ASIC miner and their shareholders. Those units were just a very unprofitable toy for the customer.

Yes, for an amount of BTC that you will never ever mine back.

Si, se sabe que van con un retraso del carajo, y si bien acerté en mis previsiones sobre la dificultad en Junio (dije aprox. 21 millones, y en ese momento estábamos por debajo de 5 millones, por lo que se ha multiplicado por 4), me equivoqué en el retraso que estimé que iba a tener Avalon: dije aprox. un mes y medio, por lo que estimé que recibiríamos la unidad en Junio (inicialmente Yifu me garantizó en el foro en inglés que el batch #3 se entregaría en su totalidad en Mayo), y la verdad es que ahora parece que si llega en Julio ya podemos considerarnos afortunados.

To esto es una putada, porque si la unidad llega cuando la dificultad esté por encima de 35 millones (y eso pasará muy pronto) no habrá manera de recuperar la inversión y acabaremos sacando menos BTC de los que pagamos. Y estamos hablando de una unidad de 71GH/s (como 5.46 ASIC miner blades) que costó 75BTC.

Sobre los chips de 2ª generación, no hay mucho que leer: sólo que Avalon está trabajando en ellos, que serán de 65/55nm (o esa es la previsión) y el ETA es Febrero 2014. Esa es toda la info que ha dado Yifu. Lo mejor que puedes hacer sin perderte en hilos en los que no hay nada de interés es meterte de vez en cuando en el perfil profesional de Yifu (Bitsyncom) y repasar sus últimos posts.. Ya te digo que por ahora no hay nada más que eso.

Honestly, I wouldn't mine with units that were crowd-fucking-funded. Some of us have a minimum of ethics and principles. Some of us would have some empathy towards the folks that risked their hard-earned money to make this project happen.

Yeah, I guess all of us would try to maximize the profit and build a % of units that we would keep for ourselves and mine with them. But mining with customer's units, taking away from them the possibility of achieving break-even? Because that's what's going to happen to late batch #2 and all batch #3.

Because of the above, I don't think Avalon is mining with customers units. Yifu really seem a guy with ideals, that won't fuck with people like that. Thus, until definitive proof is given, I will believe they are just incurring in unfortunate manufacturing and shipping delays, I will believe his word and I will keep thinking they never mined with customers units.

La terca realidad es que a esos precios (aprox. 40BTC) un minero de 13GH/s es una estafa, en el sentido en que jamás generará esa cantidad de BTCs en toda su vida útil. La dificultad está creciendo de forma exponencial y en verano ya se habrá multiplicado por 10 (calculo unos 150/200 millones para Septiembre, y no me equivoqué cuando en Marzo predije públicamente 21 millones para Junio, que es cuando esperábamos recibir unas unidades de Avalon de una compra en grupo que gestioné). En mi opinión, lo máximo que pueden generar 13GH/s a partir de hoy y durante toda su vida útil es unos 20BTC, y eso siendo extremadamente optimista (los astros se alinean, BFL jamás entrega nada, etc. etc.).

Por 13GH/s entregados HOY yo no pagaría más de 10BTC.

Sé que el OP pagó mucho más por ese minero, pero creo que se equivocó si lo que buscaba era retorno. De hecho no vi a ningún minero experimentado comprar ni un solo ASICminer de 13GH/s, sólo ha comprado gente que jamás había minado antes y que se dejó dominar por el ansia o por usuarios que esperaban poder revender con un sobreprecio (y que han fallado estrepitosamente).

Espero que no te ofendas OP, pero la realidad tiene la cabeza muy dura.

Mini-rally time?

delivered & deployed.

Let me state something very clearly: anybody incurring in debt to invest in Bitcoin related businesses is a reckless and clueless dumbass that deserves to go broke. This is a super high risk investment, it's much riskier than just buying BTC, which is high-risk by itself. I think nobody is so stupid to have asked for a loan to buy mining equipment from KnCminer or others.

BTW: Bitcoinorama, you seem to know everything that needs to be known about KNC. Do you have an idea of what are those gray numbers just by the name of each unit? See the images below, I mean the "250" close to Jupiter and "34" close to Saturn:





BTW, there's seems to be a massive number of units still in stock.

Do we know if they already arrived to the initial goal? I mean: did they order the chips yet? Crucial question. Time is ticking.

If the "available units" on KNC's web are correct, that means that 1,000TH are still available. Considering the +150TH in Avalon chips, plus another 100TH by ASICMINER, and +400TH by BFL, that would take difficulty to at least to 200 million. Without even counting for Bitfury. ROI is going to be tough, guys. If there is someone so dumb to have asked for a loan to buy ASIC... He might better cancel his order, this is going to be a tough fight for peanuts - as mining has always been, apart from that small timeframe in which ASIC equipment supply was hyper-short, and the very lucky ones who had one unit took all the profits.

It looks like the number of available Jupiters goes up instead of down:



About Saturn:



BTW: anybody knows what are the grey numbers just by the name of the units (250 for Jupiter; 34 for Saturn)?

It proves that the average Bitcoin user is very well aware of how valuable privacy is, and tends not to hang around useless places which business model is to sell your personal information as Facebook does.

If they don't accept full escrow this is very likely to be a scam.

Lo único que Avalon dice que la 2a gen. será 65/55nm y está prevista para Feb. 2014.

A LOT more