I think jimmothy is an example of customers what every asic preorder company desire  no offense I bought from BFL and made a profit in USD regardless of the ridiculous delays. I don't want people to be mislead and they should know that EVERY asic manufacturer that accepts preorders will miss the deadline. It is not a secret. Unless you buy from bitmain or asicminer you will not get your asic on time. What you fudsters forget is that a 2 month delay does not equal a guaranteed loss. It does mean that you will not profit AS much as you would have if you had it earlier but assuming you are already at a loss is simply wrong according to history. This all ignores the fact that BA may even decide to give out refunds even though they are not obligated in their TOS and they might come up with a better compensation plan for the delays. Let's say a customer of mine pre-orders barn wood to remodel their home. I give them a date as to when the wood will be shipped to their house. That date passes, whereupon a new date is set by ME, promising two months at the latest as the new deadline. They can not wait that long, thus request their money back plus purchase barn wood elsewhere to complete the remodel. I tell them that due to the ever so changing ToS on my site that there are no refunds and I WILL deliver your barn wood in two months, doing with it as you wish. Question: Would a judge say that she must accept the barn wood when I get around to delivering it, or would he tell me to remit the refund and stick the vaporware barn wood up my ass? <strokes beard!> The thing is BA never guaranteed march delivery. It was an estimate and nothing more. The tos has always said no refunds. And you keep assuming it is vaporware. Are you aware that bfl jalapenos still sell for more than the 250 I paid for it a year ago? Not exactly vaporware. |
|
|
|
AM does not need to do so himself. Any big trusted shareholder can issue AM assets with Counterparty.
This is true. It would be awesome to see an Asicminer-direct-share-backed asset issued on Counterparty. Maybe ThickasThieves would be up for the task? This would be the first "Bitcoin blue chip" asset on a decentralized exchange. One small step for TAT, one giant leap for Bitcoin securities. In case any of you missed it in my old rants, I don't actually believe decentralized exchanges are a good thing. Even AM's own exchange, which they began creating last year, has many inconveniences, and, is ultimately centralized anyway. I don't even believe decentralized exchanges are sustainable in any way that provides valuable purpose. Most amount to moving trust from one place to another, or breaking trust into a few parts. Trust is always required, efficiency is always required, resources are always required. These things all converge as order in chaos. That order is centralization. I'm not a part of the "decentralize everything!" parade, but I do believe in the concept of "empires to ashes". Eventually a thing becomes so central and powerful it collapses, whether it be by its own lack of agility, or by a paradigm shift. For many people, Bitcoin is the first time they experienced a paradigm shift in a very long time. It's exciting to have your world rocked, but Bitcoin is not a casting call for paradigm-shifters. Way too many people think we now have the power to break apart anything we can get our hands on, and turn into little pieces that somehow work better. Decentralization is not your hammer, and stock exchanges are not your nail. I can appreciate people trying new things, but an economy is more than protocol, sorry. I'm not saying the theory of a Colored Coin exchange is impossible, I'm saying the usefulness of it is. Any fruits of Colored Coin, Master Coin, etc, will do nothing more than appear decentralized in concept, and behave centralized in practice. Even Bitcoin itself only thrives through where it is efficiently "centralized": mining pools, exchanges, venture capital, this forum, etc, etc, etc. Having to trust 3 people instead of 1 is not decentralization. Having to trust that system instead of this one, is not decentralization. Do you REALLY want every business under the sun "IPO"ing? Is every random business truly qualified to run its own security? So what if you can trust the decentralized exchange, none of the issuers will be easy to trust, now will they? How do you trust what you are buying and whom you buy it from? If you really want to mitigate trust issues in this world, why aren't you all fighting to get people to use a/the Web of Trust ( http://bitcoin-otc.com/trust.php)? Why are people finding ways to pervert bitcoin with burns, when they should be making a decentralized web of trust that is more friendly and easy to use? Doesn't anyone realize how big "digital identity" will be going forward? We don't need more tinkering with reinventing Bitcoin, we need an agile identity/trust service. Think about it. Sure we have the current WoT, sure we have +Trust in this forum. But the WoT is not easy to use for beginners, nor is it a convenient means of auth/trust for online services. And, the forum's +Trust feature is much too centralized, weak, and narrow in focus. Finally, everyone, please don't be an idiot and go "burning" coins, or locking them into some silly meta protocol forever. Anyone that's been around for more than a couple months should know by now to just hold onto your damn bitcoins. That's all you have to do.I agree that for trading purposes something like colored coins would be a huge hassle and require escrow. But it would be extremely useful if we could send shares to and from an exchange with ease just like withdrawing bitcoins. Nobody cares about your opinion. You have proven to be not to be taken seriously many times. Please leave this thread for the adults, kiddo. Lol what are you so butthurt about? Your comment says something about who really needs to grow up. I am here to have a serious discussion about this topic and if you cant handle someone having an opinion you don't agree with be you shouldn't be on a discussion board. Do you disagree with my opinion that colored coins would make it extremely convenient to move shares to and from an exchange? I would love to hear your opinion as you are clearly a much more intellectual and mature "adult" |
|
|
|
So better jut buy coins now and hold them to have profit in usd. Why to mine or buy miner?
Because there is an extremely small chance you end up mining more btc than you could buy. But yea I agree buying btc is a much better investment but that doesn't mean you can't risk a little on mining. |
|
|
|
To be clear, I'm crying for the two bitcoiners, one man and one woman (her in Canada, I believe), who've been trying to get a $147K USD refunded since December, and ~$25K USD refunded since the beginning of January, respectively.
As I've already stated, I didn't (formally don't) want to be here, but glad I'm here now to expose these fucks and help others to hopefully obtain their refunds before the proverbial shit hits the fan. Sadly, those that'll be left holding the bag are ones that don't frequent this forum till it's too late.
To be fair, I have to admit that Black Arrow has structured their enterprise(s) quite beautifully, albeit it's still a SCAM!
~TMIBTCITW
Funny how in the hashfast thread you did nothing besides claim that hashfast has a gay sexworking employee and create a ton of panic and now they are shipping devices which meet their advertised specs. Who the fuck spends 147k on a preorder that clearly states no refunds, on a half developed product which is not guaranteed to ship on the estimated date? If you didn't understand that there might be delays, you deserve to lose however much you "invested" in this venture. For everyone else who wants to buy a miner because you (according to history) are almost guaranteed a profit in USD then you might be interested in preordering an asic. |
|
|
|
I think jimmothy is an example of customers what every asic preorder company desire no offense I bought from BFL and made a profit in USD regardless of the ridiculous delays. I don't want people to be mislead and they should know that EVERY asic manufacturer that accepts preorders will miss the deadline. It is not a secret. Unless you buy from bitmain or asicminer you will not get your asic on time. What you fudsters forget is that a 2 month delay does not equal a guaranteed loss. It does mean that you will not profit AS much as you would have if you had it earlier but assuming you are already at a loss is simply wrong according to history. This all ignores the fact that BA may even decide to give out refunds even though they are not obligated in their TOS and they might come up with a better compensation plan for the delays. I never said anything earlier about anything. Bfl, knc, bitfurry,metabank,avalon all had refunds. Like i said, you defend BA what is a bit unusual with all what is going on, so i concluded you are the perfect preorder buyer who does not question anything. BFL had refunds? Are we talking about the same BFL? KNC was only a few weeks late, I don't know if bitfury had preorders and I've never heard of metabank. I assume you have never actually mined bitcoins and are unaware that literally nobody has seen a loss in terms of USD. In terms of btc we all know it is a gamble and it looks like the odds of BA paying off are decreased. Refunds are a possibility although were never guaranteed. Just because a few butthurt kids, who weren't aware of the rules of the game before playing it, flood the forum with rage doesn't mean these companies who have produced working hardware are scammers. But again if you want hardware on time, buy an asicminer or antminer device. If you want to take a risk of possibly getting a better deal for the same hashrate then you might want to preorder. |
|
|
|
AM does not need to do so himself. Any big trusted shareholder can issue AM assets with Counterparty.
This is true. It would be awesome to see an Asicminer-direct-share-backed asset issued on Counterparty. Maybe ThickasThieves would be up for the task? This would be the first "Bitcoin blue chip" asset on a decentralized exchange. One small step for TAT, one giant leap for Bitcoin securities. In case any of you missed it in my old rants, I don't actually believe decentralized exchanges are a good thing. Even AM's own exchange, which they began creating last year, has many inconveniences, and, is ultimately centralized anyway. I don't even believe decentralized exchanges are sustainable in any way that provides valuable purpose. Most amount to moving trust from one place to another, or breaking trust into a few parts. Trust is always required, efficiency is always required, resources are always required. These things all converge as order in chaos. That order is centralization. I'm not a part of the "decentralize everything!" parade, but I do believe in the concept of "empires to ashes". Eventually a thing becomes so central and powerful it collapses, whether it be by its own lack of agility, or by a paradigm shift. For many people, Bitcoin is the first time they experienced a paradigm shift in a very long time. It's exciting to have your world rocked, but Bitcoin is not a casting call for paradigm-shifters. Way too many people think we now have the power to break apart anything we can get our hands on, and turn into little pieces that somehow work better. Decentralization is not your hammer, and stock exchanges are not your nail. I can appreciate people trying new things, but an economy is more than protocol, sorry. I'm not saying the theory of a Colored Coin exchange is impossible, I'm saying the usefulness of it is. Any fruits of Colored Coin, Master Coin, etc, will do nothing more than appear decentralized in concept, and behave centralized in practice. Even Bitcoin itself only thrives through where it is efficiently "centralized": mining pools, exchanges, venture capital, this forum, etc, etc, etc. Having to trust 3 people instead of 1 is not decentralization. Having to trust that system instead of this one, is not decentralization. Do you REALLY want every business under the sun "IPO"ing? Is every random business truly qualified to run its own security? So what if you can trust the decentralized exchange, none of the issuers will be easy to trust, now will they? How do you trust what you are buying and whom you buy it from? If you really want to mitigate trust issues in this world, why aren't you all fighting to get people to use a/the Web of Trust ( http://bitcoin-otc.com/trust.php)? Why are people finding ways to pervert bitcoin with burns, when they should be making a decentralized web of trust that is more friendly and easy to use? Doesn't anyone realize how big "digital identity" will be going forward? We don't need more tinkering with reinventing Bitcoin, we need an agile identity/trust service. Think about it. Sure we have the current WoT, sure we have +Trust in this forum. But the WoT is not easy to use for beginners, nor is it a convenient means of auth/trust for online services. And, the forum's +Trust feature is much too centralized, weak, and narrow in focus. Finally, everyone, please don't be an idiot and go "burning" coins, or locking them into some silly meta protocol forever. Anyone that's been around for more than a couple months should know by now to just hold onto your damn bitcoins. That's all you have to do.I agree that for trading purposes something like colored coins would be a huge hassle and require escrow. But it would be extremely useful if we could send shares to and from an exchange with ease just like withdrawing bitcoins. |
|
|
|
I think jimmothy is an example of customers what every asic preorder company desire no offense I bought from BFL and made a profit in USD regardless of the ridiculous delays. I don't want people to be mislead and they should know that EVERY asic manufacturer that accepts preorders will miss the deadline. It is not a secret. Unless you buy from bitmain or asicminer you will not get your asic on time. What you fudsters forget is that a 2 month delay does not equal a guaranteed loss. It does mean that you will not profit AS much as you would have if you had it earlier but assuming you are already at a loss is simply wrong according to history. This all ignores the fact that BA may even decide to give out refunds even though they are not obligated in their TOS and they might come up with a better compensation plan for the delays. |
|
|
|
FUN FACT: Literally EVERYONE who preordered an asic from ANY manufacturer that delivered made a profit in USD if they mined for a week or two then resold the hardware.
The only people who think they are getting scammed are the nerds who think that btc mining must result in a positive ROI in btc and think that the hardware manufacturer can be held accountable for that.
This is going a bit off-topic... but it really shouldn't be left unchallenged. I think you're taking an exceptionally stupid position here. You have a stack of USD, you could do at least three things: (0) Sit on your USD and do nothing. (1) Buy Bitcoin. (2) But a Bitcoin miner. If (2) yields less bitcoin than you would have gotten with (1) you are worse off in every way. The miner takes up space, consumes power, has shipping and delivery risks, and is just as worthless as the Bitcoin if Bitcoin loses value, but is far less liquid. You take all the risks of owning Bitcoin, multiplied by illiquidity, plus some hardware specific risks. There is no scenario in which (2) is better than (1) if (2) yields less Bitcoin, not if bitcoin goes up in value, not if it goes down, not if bitcoin becomes worthless, not on a boat, not with a goat. Unless you want to consider incompetent people with no self control who can't manage to buy and hold things on their own— in which case I'll gladly offer second signer service for multisig at far less of a loss than ripoff prices from asic hardware vendors and a lot fewer risks. I can actually think of a few cases where 2 is better than 1 or 0. If you receive your miner and btc rate stays constant there would be little incentive for people to pour money in to new hardware or at least as quickly as expected. This could mean difficulty is much less than predicted and everyone reaches roi. alternatively the price of btc could go up and you might only reach 50% roi but if you resell your miner after using it for a month you could probably reach a positive roi or come very close in btc terms (usd would reach positive roi in this case) |
|
|
|
I think you'll find that there are plenty of people who are disappointed with the conduct of BA, that's what this thread has been discussing for the last ten pages or more, so read back if you're unclear what different people have stated, I'm not going to generalise their reactions like you did in an attempt to prove my point. Suffice to say there's more than a handful of voices expressing discontent.
You asked, "Why are you so mad?" which is really quite ironic as you jumped on my earlier comment where I stated that 'there was no trolling, only a necessary holding to account' and then told me to fuck off. So am I mad? No, not really, so I just told you to fuck off back. Fair's fair, isn't it?
You're right there was some disappointment but only from maybe 5 people who actually purchased a preorder. If you cant look at PGs 5 pages worth of posts in this thread and don't see trolling I don't know if you can be helped. He did the same shit in the hashfast thread and they are now shipping hardware with decent specs. We have been told by bobsag3 (very reputable seller) that they are going to be talking with BA to clarify about the delays and refunds even though they are not obligated to give refunds according to their agreement terms so no need to panic. |
|
|
|
Hi ! Well.. PG is just trolling this forum in an unacceptable way.
Correction, there is no trolling. The information being provided and the holding of supposed responsible parties to account is more than acceptable, it is completely necessary and is one of the few reasons why any disclosure at all is taking place by a company who received funds in good faith from customers but whose good faith is far from being repaid. You are delusional. Quit trolling and do something productive. You come to this thread knowing that literally every asic manufacturer has experienced delays and act like you predicted the future when it was the same with BA. Try not to pat yourself on the back too hard. Notice how the only ones crying for a refund are the ones without orders from BA? Seriously fuck off. We all knew that when preordering nonexistent hardware there would be a huge chance of delays and we accepted that fact when ordering. We will get our (still best priced) hardware eventually and you will continue hopping from thread to thread letting everyone who preordered an asic know exactly how stupid they are. Get a life No mate, you can fuck off yourself asshole. When members of the community provide information that informs the community at large of nefarious dealings, inconsistent statements, broken promises and attempts to defraud, it sure as hell isn't trolling, it's holding people to account. If you don't like it that's too fucking bad. I do hope you get your hardware but in the meantime, direct any anger you have to those who've deliberately lied to you about realistic delivery dates, those who've suckered you in to take the investment risk normally taken by venture capitalists who also become part owners in the business and who have dangled you out on the customer thread with very limited upside, that is, assuming you get a product at all. You may not like it, but your attempts to shout down meaningful criticism do you no service at all. FUN FACT: Literally EVERYONE who preordered an asic from ANY manufacturer that delivered made a profit in USD if they mined for a week or two then resold the hardware. The only people who think they are getting scammed are the nerds who think that btc mining must result in a positive ROI in btc and think that the hardware manufacturer can be held accountable for that. Why are you so mad? The people in this thread who have invested thousands are not even a fraction as irritated as you and PG. BA is 2 months late. Thats it. If you don't want delays don't preorder a hypothetical product. If you don't mind possible delays and want a spot in line for one of the most cost efficient asics available you might be interested in preordering. You might want to rethink what you consider "meaningful criticism" because you and PG have done nothing but cry about a delay and scream for refunds even though you never ordered anything from them and never planned to. This is nothing more than "I told you so" but nobody had disagreed in the first place that there would likely be delays. |
|
|
|
Hi ! Well.. PG is just trolling this forum in an unacceptable way.
Correction, there is no trolling. The information being provided and the holding of supposed responsible parties to account is more than acceptable, it is completely necessary and is one of the few reasons why any disclosure at all is taking place by a company who received funds in good faith from customers but whose good faith is far from being repaid. You are delusional. Quit trolling and do something productive. You come to this thread knowing that literally every asic manufacturer has experienced delays and act like you predicted the future when it was the same with BA. Try not to pat yourself on the back too hard. Notice how the only ones crying for a refund are the ones without orders from BA? Seriously fuck off. We all knew that when preordering nonexistent hardware there would be a huge chance of delays and we accepted that fact when ordering. We will get our (still best priced) hardware eventually and you will continue hopping from thread to thread letting everyone who preordered an asic know exactly how stupid they are. Get a life |
|
|
|
Great care needs to be taken in evaluating options for what to do with shares.
Counterparty, Mastercoin, Colored Coins, and I'm sure other systems could all probably serve the needs of AM, but it is important to thoroughly evaluate the pros and cons of each solution.
I am inclined to think that AM is serious enough of a company that they should sit back for a nice long while (in bitcoin time) and let other people take on the risk of adopting these systems. After the market has spoken and there is a clear winner(s), then AM can safely adopt such a system.
Hoping colored coins takes off. I've heard mastercoin has a few cool features but that doesn't matter if its centralized. |
|
|
|
|
Mpex is what you get when you combine a ponzi scheme, a pyramid scheme, and an options trading bot (gambling bot)
|
|
|
|
Oh well! At least everybody in line got to meet everybody else, and now call all walk away whistling "Bitcoin mining is only a hobby to me...", with their heads held high, proudly knowly that they met bigger fools than thou.
CLAP  CLAP<I edited what you quoted: call = can> Where about in the UK are you going bobsag3? I have a week off work. Would love to meet you, have a chat and be another voice vouching for you (not that I feel you need it). I might be new to bitcoin, miner delays and what not, but surely a random member like myself will help some of the non believers. Hell, these guys got people lining up and begging to be vetters: Name: n00dles0up
Posts: 28
Activity: 28
Position: Newbie
Date Registered: December 06, 2013, 07:18:46 PM
Last Active: Today at 09:59:33 PM Why don't you go meet bobsag? If you are truly concerned about saving people from getting scammed surely this would be more effective than the useless shit your finding on google. Or would it be too much work to get out of your armchair? |
|
|
|
There is no denying that some out-of-proportion freaking out has occurred here.
Let's do a reality check. What are the circumstances? A manufacturer gave advance notice about failure to deliver on time, citing inability to deliver by agreed time a product meeting advertised specifications. They offered (but quite likely insufficient) compensation for the delay (then again, the delay may not fully be their mistake). Their mistake is definitely lack of openness, yet they have a prior record of delivering on promises, even if sometimes late (but not catastrophically late). As most manufacturers on this planet, they have a prior record of defects occurring in products. They have been advised by multiple people to supply more information in future, to avoid damaging trust. Some people who can be expected to publish what they heard and saw, are scheduled to meet and discuss with them. With this event, this manufacturer has lost some amount of their reputation, and customers exhibit varying degrees of disappointment. Meanwhile, in the relevant forum thread, a person who cannot discuss things in a sensible manner takes center stage and spotlight with funny pictures, large colorful text and the essential question of... whether two persons named Matt are the same?
W.T.F.
P.S. Regarding sheepishness.... as long as you don't invest money which you can't live without, is it prohibited to pick the "there is a dove on the street" communication strategy instead of the "my modestly sized bathroom is chock full of flapping eagles" strategy? Last I saw, one was allowed to communicate calmly (though it was also recommended to bring along a big stick).
+1 If you preordered nonexistent hardware expecting a guaranteed shipping date you are too naive to be playing this game. Bullshit!!! 1 month...ok...6 weeks...ok,but 3 months  Time is money in BTCland,late means loss of income,VERY late means..........well you get where this is going  Someone didn't do their math/planning  I've been mining since June 2011,every ASIC I ordered has been late........except the ASICminer USB sticks I ordered in a GB  BFL-6/8 months Avalon Klondike-3+ months Drillbit-5 weeks,due to repairs being needed.Who's fault Can't really say,but BA was involved is all I know At least the delay times WERE getting shorter....I thought  I understand that ASIC's aren't easy,but these delays seem very fishy to me.Just about every producer has been late,I just don't get it It's like they're discouraging the public from buying hashpower,maybe they just want to sell to "Mining Corperations" only Just getting tired of it............but what can we do Nothing When you preorder a piece of nonexistent hardware you accept the fact that there is a 95% chance of delays. You made the mistake of assuming an estimated shipment date is anywhere close to the actual date. What is stopping you from buying an antminer which ships now or an asicminer when they finish gen3? |
|
|
|
There is no denying that some out-of-proportion freaking out has occurred here.
Let's do a reality check. What are the circumstances? A manufacturer gave advance notice about failure to deliver on time, citing inability to deliver by agreed time a product meeting advertised specifications. They offered (but quite likely insufficient) compensation for the delay (then again, the delay may not fully be their mistake). Their mistake is definitely lack of openness, yet they have a prior record of delivering on promises, even if sometimes late (but not catastrophically late). As most manufacturers on this planet, they have a prior record of defects occurring in products. They have been advised by multiple people to supply more information in future, to avoid damaging trust. Some people who can be expected to publish what they heard and saw, are scheduled to meet and discuss with them. With this event, this manufacturer has lost some amount of their reputation, and customers exhibit varying degrees of disappointment. Meanwhile, in the relevant forum thread, a person who cannot discuss things in a sensible manner takes center stage and spotlight with funny pictures, large colorful text and the essential question of... whether two persons named Matt are the same?
W.T.F.
P.S. Regarding sheepishness.... as long as you don't invest money which you can't live without, is it prohibited to pick the "there is a dove on the street" communication strategy instead of the "my modestly sized bathroom is chock full of flapping eagles" strategy? Last I saw, one was allowed to communicate calmly (though it was also recommended to bring along a big stick).
+1 If you preordered nonexistent hardware expecting a guaranteed shipping date you are too naive to be playing this game. |
|
|
|
Congrats. You did a search for Matt Carson and found a profile that admitted that it was the owner of minersource.net.
You're such a sleuth. You should work for the FBI
I think I may have something to contribute to the investigation: Black arrow matt and bobsag both wear shoes. You know who else wears shoes? The answer is scammers. I think you should look in to this further phinnaeus gage |
|
|
|
- 100% of revenue past 4 months from new investors
- 1000% to 4000% increase over less than two years, and some off the cuff calculation would indicate.
- S.MPOE has generated just about a billion dollars' worth of new wealth for its holders
- Earn 5btc for recruiting a new investor
- Monthly statements mean we are 100% legit
Compare to: - A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from existing capital or new capital paid by new investors, rather than from profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation.
- Operators of Ponzi schemes usually entice new investors by offering higher returns than other investments, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent.
- The perpetuation of the high returns requires an ever-increasing flow of money from new investors to sustain the scheme
and Typically, extraordinary returns are promised on the original investment[5] and vague verbal constructions such as "hedge futures trading", "high-yield investment programs", or "offshore investment" might be used. The promoter sells shares to investors by taking advantage of a lack of investor knowledge or competence, or using claims of a proprietary investment strategy which must be kept secret to ensure a competitive edge.
Ponzi schemes sometimes commence operations as legitimate investment vehicles, such as hedge funds. For example, a hedge fund can degenerate into a Ponzi scheme if it unexpectedly loses money (or simply fails to legitimately earn the returns promised and/or thought to be expected) and the promoters, instead of admitting their failure to meet expectations, fabricate false returns and, if necessary, produce fraudulent audit reports.
A wide variety of investment vehicles or strategies, typically legitimate, have become the basis of Ponzi schemes. For instance, Allen Stanford used bank certificates of deposit to defraud tens of thousands of people. Certificates of deposit are usually low-risk and insured instruments, but the Stanford CDs were fraudulent.[6]
Initially the promoter will pay out high returns to attract more investors, and to lure current investors into putting in additional money. Other investors begin to participate, leading to a cascade effect. The "return" to the initial investors is paid out of the investments of new entrants, and not out of profits.
Often the high returns encourage investors to leave their money in the scheme, with the result that the promoter does not have to pay out very much to investors; he simply has to send them statements showing how much they have earned. This maintains the deception that the scheme is a fund with high returns.
Promoters also try to minimize withdrawals by offering new plans to investors, often where money is frozen for a longer period of time, in exchange for higher returns. The promoter sees new cash flows as investors are told they cannot transfer money from the first plan to the second. If a few investors do wish to withdraw their money in accordance with the terms allowed, their requests are usually promptly processed, which gives the illusion to all other investors that the fund is solvent.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme |
|
|
|
but anyone [...] will tell you
See, this is the part you have trouble with: the opinions of "anyone" aren't worth squat. You are right but the thing is anyones opinion is worth more than yours. You run a very deceptive ponzi scheme albeit a very successful one. Grats. You don't need to pretend you are financial grand master providing an actual financial service. EDIT: Forgot that he actually does need to pretend in order to keep the ponzi flowing. |
|
|
|
I requested a refund from Minersource via e-mail a couple of hours ago, still awaiting a reply. *crossing fingers* With my luck, they'll honor the refund and then I'll regret doing it come May when they start shipping! LOL Also, if this is some big scam (which I'm not 100% buying to be honest), they certainly won't be giving any refunds... I guess we wait and see.
If I do get a response from them, I'll share it here.
I would give them a few days to get things figured out before expecting a refund. |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
