They possible lost the private keys of one of their cold storage wallets? I can't explain "temporarily unavailable" - maybe he's trying to recover from a damaged hard drive or break the encryption password?
yes that quote about temporarily unavailable seemed a weird thing to say... he owns MTGOX, he owns all the private keys.. private keys have nothing to do with malleability.. he could easily load them into a client and withdraw at a whim.. so why say temporarily unavailable. ........ seems like delay tactics with weak excuse... maybe he got his speach lessons from pirate@40 and lastly, when people are wanting their money.. why is he at home playing with his cat, chatting in a chatroom. he should be doing something.. right? |
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will people stop hyping up secondmarkets stupid exchanges.
the main exchanges secondmarket is involved in (bitcoin trust, winklevoss and others) are all investment companies selling pretty much shares of their company. they wont have bitcoin wallet withdrawals. its is purely a betting game using the real bitcoin price.. but copying it over to their database and then people gamble on its rise and fall, without actual bitcoins changing hands.
winklevoss for instance they are using their business value (based on the bitcoins holding) as a price value of their shares. so if bitcoins drop. the holdings are worth less, which means the business value drops. and thus the share price of the company drops.
anyone investing in winklevoss and other markets like this are not purchasing actual bitcoins which they withdraw.
so please stop highlighting this stupid effort of FIAT lovers pretending to be involved with the bitcoin market. the day trading on these stupid exchanges will not affect actual buys and sells on bitcoin exchanges.
-rant over-
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i vote no because exchanges need to make a income to pay their bills and wages. if they are not getting much in fee's they would be more tempted to steal from peoples accounts. the best way is to trade smart on the most profitable exchanges.
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1. Open a new bitcoin site, let your clients enjoy your services and gain trust over time
/ pretend to have
2. Have some security flaws in your system so a "hacker" can slowly steal coins. (You and your buddies hack your own site & steal coins to blame "hackers"). Announce that the company is insolvent due to "haking" and blame it some invisible hackers.
3. Enjoy your new jetset lifestyle
The list is long of sites applying these scheme, including MtGox and Bitcoinica.
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well stuff like the bitcoin investment trust and other things like the winklevoss investment company are not actual bitcoin purchasing companies.
yes they have in the past bought bitcoins to declare a bitcoin asset value. but now their clients (investors) are not buying actual bitcoins. but a share of a company that owns bitcoins.
so when bitcoin price goes up. they declare their business is worth more without buying a single extra bitcoin. this is not bitcoin investments. this is company shares backed by a fixed asset measured in bitcoins..
these companies are not injecting extra money into the bitcoin market cap. the investers are throwing money into the company and thats as far as it goes..
it give publicity to bitcoin but not extra investment
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i dont care about media.. after all in 2012 bitcoin had bad press about bitcoinica and pirate@40..
.. another yawn at all this drama, give it a couple weeks and bitcoin media will learn the true facts that while there are nasty people operating services using bitcoin. bitcoin itself has not been affected. no coins were lost out of the chain. it simply changed hands of who owns the coins.. yes users were affected, but that does not make the bitcoin protocol any different. it still stand strong.
people just need to learn not to trust people that they cant slap with a wet fish. no matter what credentials they have.
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what i found is the more 'trust' someone has via third parties, the more people throw money at them. do not base trust on the words of third parties. research the business yourself and dont turn the business into your long term storage vessel for your funds.
use a service then withdraw. do not allow them to keep funds you do not want to lose, for any long length of period.
the best self regulation is for each person to say. ok this CEO of xyz business, would i personally hand him a suitcase of cash, and if he ran off would i have enough knowledge to personally slap him across the face with a wet fish.
do not rely on 3rd parties to verify a business. do your own due diligence. do your own risk assessments. its your money after all, not anyone elses
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There has been a lot of discussion regarding regulation of bitcoin. There are clearly positives and negatives to such regulation. Here is my suggestion:
That the bitcoin exchanges create a self-regulatory organization (commonly referred to as a SRO) to which the bitcoin exchanges could VOLUNTARILY join.
An example of this is brokerage firms. Virtually all brokerage firms belong to a SRO known as FINRA (the financial industry regulatory authority). It is not a governmental entity. This SRO has rules which the brokerage firms must comply with, including being subject to audits, inspections, even fines for non-compliance with the SRO rules. The public feels safer investing with FINRA member brokerage firms bc they know that someone is overseeing the firm, and making sure that the firm is acting appropriately.
The same idea would work great with bitcoin. Bitcoin exchange members would pay a membership fee to join. The SRO would establish internal rules about how exchanges must operate (accounting, audits, etc). The SRO would have a board and staff to conduct these audits and oversee the operation of the exchange. An exchange would not be required to join the SRO, but then it would likely not have the credibility of those that did.
Not only would this give great comfort to the investing public that situations like gox would be much less likely to occur, but it would keep regulations out of the hands of governments. (we all know that people getting defrauded equals more gov regulations, many of which will be broad and overbearing, which will hinder bitcoin's adoption).
The reason that brokerage firms created FINRA was so that the investing public would have greater confidence in entrusting their hard earned money with these entities.
All we need is for knowledgable people (maybe the bitcoin foundation) to create the SRO, draft the membership exchange rules, etc. FINRA's membership agreement with its member brokerage firms would probably be a good template to start with since there are so many similarities with brokerage firms (especially clearing firms) and bitcoin exchanges.
Doesn't this seem like a no-brainer?
..................... coin validation LLC ............. its been talked about before (just ignore the FUD where people thought it was to verify users. the truth was it was a voluntary service for businesses/services) |
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mark karpeles is following the same script as pirate@40. no action, just announcments of excuses why they dont simply return funds.
...delay tactics. basically.
every other exchange has already scripted a workaround for malleability. so mtgox has no excuse.
"monitoring the situation" = sitting back and not doing anything, just watching.....
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this thread highlights what mike hearn and others proposed. a service that verifies businesses and ensure they follow the regulations of FIAT and also the moral rules of bitcoin.
to then green light these businesses as being proper and ethical. thus making their withdrawal address 'green'. and also make bad and illecit services addresses black listed. allowing people to then know the good and the bad.
alot of people created fud about how that service was 'supposedly' meant to verify and validate everyone. but it was just the business/services
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if you cannot make funds in the current system then maybe trading isnt for you.
i will however give some good advice..
do not concentrate on the big bitcoin/dollar market.
play the altcoins, that way you are taking the bitcoin away from the sell orders of FIAT, (much like hoarding creates demand) allowing bitcoin/fiat prices to rise due to lack of sell orders. and profitting on the altcoins in the meantime.
there are a few altcoins that are worth 1 satoshi. meaning buying at the lowest price possible means no chance of any further loss. and selling just one order line above it. (2satoshi price) doubles your funds.
its called playing the markets. and seeing as altcoins are useless in any real life practical way, there is no harm in playing with them purely for profit
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you're right about the wishing death part, but i think "bitchslapping" him isn't that bad,  slapping him with a wet wish works too |
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Bitcoin will survive the fall of Mt Gox. I am certain of this, as the businesses surrounding many new technologies stumble in their infancy.
A much bigger threat to the long-term viability of Bitcoin is hacking, and the reduction in mind share that results from hacking claims.
I have several Bitcoims on coinbase, and I am offloading them all into cold storage until sites like coinbase give a guarantee that if you use all of their security measures, theft of coins will be reimbursed back to the victim.
I am a high-tech user, I used to factor authentication on my account and my backup email account, along with random long nonrepeating unrecognizable passwords. But I'm in like the 1%.
We need websites like Coinbase to have official policies on theft, otherwise savoy users won't store their coins there, and less savvy users won't dabble in Bitcoin at all. This has to be the next big change, or this thing will die on the vine!
you cant hack bitcoin. you can however hack services ontop of bitcoin or con people out of funds. but when it comes to bitcoins whether an innocent user owns them or a scam artist owns them, in the end they are all people, and bitcoins have not been destroyed, only changed hands. same as when you buy something at the bitcoin store. it simply changes hands. when it comes to investing, smart investors know the difference between bitcoins strengths, and users weaknesses so even when they read that USERS have lost their coins. they know that its not bitcoins fault. bitcoins has a fixed amount and in the end it does not matter who's hands it is in or how it was obtained, bitcoin wont die. price drops are not a death of bitcoin, but a buying oppertunity for new users. this cycle will repeat again and again for many years. the best advice is to not panic over the daily drama of bitcoin users (personal and business) but to look at the long term picture. in 2012 bitcoin went from over $30, down to $14 and then down to $6, purely because of drama in the media (silkroad, bitcoinica&pirate).. but now look at it. bitcoin drama will just keep circling, yet bitcoin will never die. |
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The only thing that you've revealed about this experiment so far is that it involves getting people to donate BTC to a wallet that you control. Maybe if you gave your real world information or you explained more about what your experiment involves, people would be less skeptical about the experiment.
what it also revealed is that people are willing to just hand strangers money without checking up on them or asking questions. and that if starman did infact reveal more info.. such as a nigerian prince sob story, or a sure bet investment. people would be MORE skeptical and not give coins |
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btw, big gov backs the big music industry, just like the big banks- that's the key difference. If we buy something the gov tells us not too, especially something that challenges or even usurps it's establishment and government big banking- than you are seen as it's enemy, and do you find yourself surprised that the gov won't help you get back the bitcoins you hope to usurp it with?
im sorry to inform you but governments have not said bitcoins are a no, no.. infact major governments are in the middle of making regulations, this means they recognise it as something people want and that they need to monitor the sale/purchase of.
There's the difference. It's a bit like being a freedom fighter in Ukraine now and then complaining to that government who you are fighting against that a fellow rebel stole your cache of ammo and RPG's. Oh... waaaa.
the ukraine scenario is where protestors held cops and government members hostage.. but now the cops and government members have an arrest warrant. not for protesters, but for their own leader.. well ex leader now he has ran off to the border.
The moral of this is, if you are going to go against the banking industry, the national currency, and create your own 'currency' outside the safety net of regulated fiat AML KYC suable structures, then you don't have much to say if you lose your stuff. You can't go crying to big banking, big gov and plead with them for help.
bitcoin is not against FIAT, it is beside fiat. much like the euro is beside the dollar, or the pound. its just another currency. Bitcoin is not designed to remove FIAT from the face of the planet, its designed to give people choices. and my last post gave 2 examples that authorities do actually know the difference between legitimate users of bitcoin, and users that have done illegal activities using bitcoin (pirate@40, DPR, Shrem) so dont even try saying the authorities don't get involved.
-Sorry guys. If it's really the wild west here in Bitcoinia, then confront Gox people wild west style, -yourself (not with guns obviously.)
-It seems that no sheriff is going to save you.
i seriously think anyone trying to say that a class action cannot happen, are either trolls trying to bait a argument. or friends of karpeles trying to dissuade people from following it through. and my last 'opinion'... the guys that are protesting outside mtgox offices should be the ones that front the lawsuit. they are already in the country which makes taking karpeles to court much easier to handle. EDIT: i just read how some of you think class actions don't exist in japan..... you seriously need to get your head out of the san and research once in a while.. try researching QCO's.. infact i know you are lazy so ill just link you one result http://www.amt-law.com/pdf/bulletins3_pdf/120518.pdf |
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stop creating FUD. simply read the crisis plan.
it is not wrote in a manner that would be deemed to have come from MTGOX. instead it is wrote in a manner that an outsider that has opinions about mtgox.
this is not a leaked document from inside of mtgox. so please do not treat it as such, anyone can write a document and put any carefully chosen words into the document. so it really requires you all to put the whole scenario into perspective.
GOX DID NOT WRITE THE DOCUMENT AND THE "STORY" WROTE BY THE DOCUMENT PROVES NOTHING
although i hate mtgox's actions recently, what i hate more is the FUD spreading trolls. people need to stop taking things on face value and actually do some research beyond the information that someone provides you with.
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the short answer? no. no one is successfully going to class action Gox. Bitcoins aren't real. What are they going to cry to the government about, a missing computer hash? not to mention, the governments have been warning people not to buy it for a long time. Bitcoins don't exist, they're not recognized as currency, so nothing was stolen when you bought "air" with your real money.  so binary data that forms music, which then gets stolen by people pretending they made it. has never led to court cases? or that binary data that forms movies, games, software...... oh and lets add some more insight... pirate@40 got arrested in relation to bitcoins.. Shrem also got arrested. so i dont think bitcoins are imaginary. and if bitcoins were imaginary. then why are you here writing messages about something that does not exist. why waste your life on a topic you do not believe in? |
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