you got no clue how the system works.. so here goes..

regulators such as fincen/FSA dont proactively shut down businesses. they work off of reports known as SARS reports given by banks and individuals where there is a real risk of a crime happening based on the best judgements of banks and individuals evidence at hand., so the FINCEN/FSA will never tell a bank to shut down an account, on a whim.

now stepping down the ladder to the level of banks. it is the banks responsibility to monitor its customers (not the regulators) and if a bank see's something dodgy or gets a complaint from a customer they are suppose to freeze an account and investigate the legitamacy of the business and or the complaint. the bank are not allowed to reveal to the bank account holder the exact nature of why they are being investigated.

once the bank has done its internal investigation and decided a crime has been committed then and only then would a SARS report be generated and FINCEN/FSA(SOCA) made aware of the potential crime. for further investigations to occur. if other bank account holders are involved fincen/FSA would suggest to those banks to begin investigations and if enough info is there to freeze the account then they will but only after fincen/FSA receive a SARS report with enough evidence to act on.

the banks don't freeze accounts on a whim, they have to have good reason. and even after the good reason they have to have enough information to make a sars report of an actual crime.

i repeat
fincen/FSA will not ask a bank to freeze an account on a whim. fincen/FSA need to have received a SARS report about the people involved to then get the banks to act.

take mtgox for instance.. they had a confidential informant send them a SARS report before anything happened to MTGOX

now the weakest point is the banks.. as they are the point where a account can be frozen on less legitimate reasons. and if a crime has not been committed they HAVE TO release the account.

the banks do not simply run away with the money on a whim.

it may be worth reading the regulations once in a while. so having a working relationship with the local bank manager more so then just one hand shake and a business plan you can quash any concerns the bank has and ensure your rating with the bank is not high risk.

more reason to have a business relationship with your bank and local financial authority if you intend to deal with FIATchanging multiple hands.

and get rid of the arm chair anarchist views of ignorance is bliss when it comes to FIAT.

my bank manager knows me, we have shaken hands many times. he understand bitcoin, understand my business model so i have no issues continuing to do what i do. and no fear of sudden crazy actions from the bank

blah blah blah..

now in the real world if someone showed their income and expenditure of 2012 of X amount and showed they bought a red paperclip as part of their asset possesions..

and then in 2013 they showed they sold a house which they didn't not have in 2012. then of course the tax man would be interested.

but on every day bartering. swapping a loaf of bread for a couple pints of milk (equal value) the tax man wont care.

edit:

i think the problem here is that 60% atleast of people that think they are smart on this thread by using google searches are usually under 20yo that have never come into contact with a tax man.

where as i and a few distinctly obvious poster that have the same opinions as me seem to be those with real world experience.

well past posts puts this guy in Kansas citry Texas area..

finshaggy.. mckinney (neighbouring town)

both into selling seeds of different plants.

both have the same community projects.

both have shown no previous experience in leading such a mammouth project or understand the intricate details of whats really needed.

3 days in a field making a shake robinson crusoe style for $300 is not really what i would call a dry run for a bitcoin island project.

a family member is an electrician. he gets paid in fiat and in favours. he also gets a cup of tea from some of the customers. no-where EVER has he had to claim the tea and biscuits or the occassional sandwich as part of his gross earnings.

when it comes to bartering. its common sense.

if a pencil has a value of under £$1 and was traded 1:1 against a house. then the values would instantly show that someone in the trade has made massive profit. and when they go to sell the house they would then have to pay tax on the profits minus the pencil cost.

now in real world bartaring most people find objects of similar value to trade against each other making a fair offer to each other so that both parties get what they want and both don't feel like they have been shafted. this is where no profit is made and thus no tax is needed to be paid.

now for some examples.
1)say i bought a car 4door for £$1000 and sold it for £$1000 no profit = no tax

2)say i bought a car 4door for £$1000 and swapped it for 2door car of similar value no profit = no tax

now taking example 2... lets say the 2door was a sports car that a father of a new born desperately wanted to get rid of due to needing back seat space for his newborn. and the 2 door was worth £$2000

in a 1:1 trade there has been some profit, and it will easily show up when person A sells the 2 door for cash, that is when tax will come into it.

so when you barter for things. look for items of similar value. that if you sold out as FIAT would not net you a profit.

and just like anything. if you make a FIAT profit. expect to pay tax

lol i know what you mean. especially when it take 5 people to make a charity(board members). so thats 5 peoples wages. lets say they take £250 a week wage thats £1250 or in friendlier terms 18 bitcoins a week..

and that is 18 bitcoins just to ensure the charity is legal. let alone costs of delivering a service to *cough* educate the country.*cough*

now here is a great idea.. dont be a charity.. instead promote bitcoin for free.. how you may ask?

easy. talk just-eat.co.uk into accepting bitcoin.. you will instantly have 2000 businesses accepting bitcoin in one swoop.

i last year started doing this but other investment projects got in the way.

and how do i know it can be done for free.. well the simple answer is foodler.com.. getting them to take it on didnt cost a penny.

any links to the website for this event..

any proof that your involevd with this. something here tells me that your a clone account of Finshaggy. a known troll who goes around with 101 idea's that wil never florish, trying to get free bitcoin..

this thread shows no details about the event. to me its the equivalent of "pay me 3BTC and drive to an empty field where only the suckers that pay up will be there, no project leaders will be there"

yuck.. no offence but i hate those kind of things....forgive me for having a high moral standard but i think charity status should be for those that have needs such as disaster relief (needing food and water and homes). not for tax evasion so you can go around meet ups at pubs and all of your wages are paid for by other peoples donations.

i prefer to work hard for my bitcoins and then use them to benefit bitcoin adoption/mainstreaming.

i have donated money directly to gavin andressen (bitcoin-qt programmer) directly but would never donate to the foundation to pay for the other foundation owners wages so they can promote.

promoting bitcoins should be the hobby of EVERYONE. it shouldnt be a charity status

half agree. using paypal as the comparison i agree with but the UK banking system with is free 'faster payments' bank wire transfer is a hard sell.

and also to add a comparison to paypal requires a popular and robust bitcoin equivelent. more infrustructure, security and promotion needs to be put into the legitimate bitcoin versions of ebay. just to make the point of taking on bitcoin and selling household goods on bitmit and other sites even worthy of mentioning.

what is truly needed is a fast repayment system for merchants to receive 100% of the purchase price by using bitcoins so that they are atleast tempted to take on bitcoins along with plastic.

then with the influx of more merchants, the consumers (everyday joe bloggs) will move across..

theres no point telling 1000 people to buy bitcoins if there is nothing much in the UK to buy with them. merchant adoption should be more important then convincing friends to buy in.

we are already seeing the ramifications of the weight of joe blogs overpowering that of merchants.. the height of £175 bitcoin was due to every day people. now those with bitcoin are starting to see that there is not much that can be bought with it. which is leading to a sub £70 price

The american IRS has as much power to tax bitcoin directly as they have the power to enforce the euro to be taxed at 50%

american IRS can only tax and control and make demands on american currency..

the eurozone can only tax and control and make demands on euro currency..

the UK HMRC can only tax and control and make demands on the UK currency..

yea they may have relationships with each other and agree on advice from their partners. but this does not mean that IRS/FINCEN/HMRC have authority of a currency not belonging to them.. they can only regulate it if the people that do own it fully and voluntarily agree to it.

bitcoin is not owned by a country. so please get your heads out of the sand.. bitcoins cannot be taxed.. only when converted into native FIAT will that native countries laws start to apply.

so lets start building bitcoin only businesses. bitcoin only telecoms companys, grocery stores, lets move away from FIAT and choke the financial industry.

ah.. yea the 'stinker' companies.. i see your point.. i stay away from those.

but as for the more legit companies.. comparing the FIAT investments of similar return. having tax deductions straight off your profit hurts your re-investment amounts. where as keeping the return as bitcoin, your free to reinvest the full amount back into new ventures. and only having to claim tax when/IF you convert to FIAT.

what i have seen in the past though is that people buying these stinker shares dont hold them for a year. they only buy in just before the date to be eligable for the next dividend, get the dividend and then move onto another venture, then return ready for the next dividend.

thus instead of getting 12 monthly dividends by holding in one company for a full year. they can manage upto 48 monthly dividends if they time it right over 4 ventures. which is normally only worth doing on 'stinker' companies that you dont care about the long term future of.

having "hopefully" quashed any rumours of bitcoin being regulated, by using the facts of the finacial reports which show they can only control the FIAT gates into bitcoin..

the best thing to do now is:


We cannot do anything about the FIAT exchange regulations.. after all FIAT is government property and so you got to play by their rules. but by finding less and less reasons to require FIAT. the less reliant on regulations bitcoin needs to be.

so in the future i see a couple fully licenced FIAT/BITCOIN exchanges for each country. and then a mass of businesses that never touch fiat.

remember guys bitcoin is OUR COUNTRY. we are all the president, we are all the congress, we are all the MP's and other political bodies that go into bitcoin. Other countries do not own bitcoin, so they cannot control it. so stop worrying about other countries regulating bitcoin. all they can do is regulate their own FIAT.

seems your new to being an investor.
i personally deal with contracts based investment (partnerships) rather then using the crowdfunding sites like the ones mentioned in this thread. but here is my input

1) compared to fiat investing which requires bank accounts and regularly being taxed capital gains and/or income tax dependant on country. bitcoins offer a more choice and less stress method to invest.

2) compared to fiat investing, the % return is higher through bitcoin.

3) bitcoin is a whole economy. so getting away from thinking mining is the only way to make profit is a smart thing. especially if you dont want to be waiting upto a year just to get mining equipment. which causes your funds to be locked in, losing value.

4) knowing your helping bitcoin projects grow which will in the future enhance the value of every bitcoin you hold, is worth more then just the % return you get.

+1 many movies can stem off of bitcoin.

not just documentary channel movies but major picture movies like
social network (facebook)
fifth estate(wikileaks)

so imagine a bitcoin major picture, then many major pictures as spin offs which over dramatise bitcoinica and pirate@40 into some kind of die hard esq movie lol

the op assumes bitcoins are stored on a Pc and are able to be deleted.

your personal wallet is just a password file ( your private keys) which give you access to change ownerships of the coins held on the blockchain which is distributed.

so with torrent websites holding many seeds of the latest blockchain database and not everyone doing windows updates to fear their copies of the blockchain/wallet getting destroyed.. there would be very little damage to the network that cant be fixed within 24 hours.

all i would advise is to back up private keys.

thats where bartaring comes into play.

hyperthetical:

big investor wanting large amount of radioactive plutonium would agree to be the person A..

now the guy with the plutonium agree's to be person B his army of sleeper cell people in the middle are people C

Person A buys a bunch of bitcoins from different methods available to him 50% of the deal value
person A also passes Fiat to sleeper cell C people.

Person B sees his sleeper cell operatives have been paid and also receives the other half of payment in bitcoin direct to complete the transaction.

Person A now takes delivery of his purchase and Person B has a bunch of bitcoin to randomly pay out to his sleeper cells at later dates as wages etc. which the sleeper cells can sell for fiat local bitcoin style.

in the end all the bitcoin get disbursed in many countries for small amounts. which cant be traced to a bank account or to a large product purchase

to save you alot of time trying to convince food establishments to take on bitcoin.... here is a FREE tip

i say free as there are already (if you done some basic research) MANY campus restaurants that take bitcoin.

http://www.foodler.com/serviceArea.do;

just click on the city. then on the right side it will say Campuses

take washington DC. for instance http://www.foodler.com/DC.html

for the other cities that have universities but no campus listings, you could always google maps the addresses and find non campus restaurants that deliver to campus area's.

this should save ALOT of travelling to each city to have meetings with restaurant managers trying to convince them of bitcoin.

there. thats half your job done. now to work from that list to spread the word

my use of the 9 minutes -12 minutes were not to be taken literally. they were used to indicate that the difficulty would change to get an average time of 10 minutes per 4032 block.

hmmm..

my use of the amount 10 minutes and 4032 blocks is not to be taken literally, it is used to indicate that the difficulty over a average time evens out to ensure that the block solving stays on course for its 4 year cycle before the reward halving.

there is infact a slight variance on the number of seconds that has been mathemaically calculated into the bitcoin rules to make it not quite 10 minutes.

(hopefully this reply should quash the anal dwelling but monkeys that want to take things literally, instead of reading and putting into context)

this is where trying to introduce another was legal-now not product fails in regards to bitcoin,

bitcoins don't gt created on farms by anyone. the majority of them are originally from manufacturers funded by governments, making them government products and under government control. hense the requirements for licences etc.

bitcoin is a licence free legal personal possession.. they can't suddenly revoke your licence or inform you they want a recall on their product. its not theirs!!

in a few pubs down in the area i reside their supplier is greenkingIPA which is on my contacts list. but for a short term goal making it easier for pubs to get their pound coins is stage one.. world domination takes alot longer