Replacing witnesses is a social question, its not inbuilt into the protocol to select/pick witnesses, they have to be picked by the users of the system, or if each user doesnt care, then the default hub byteball.org or other hubs can do the choice on behalf of the user.
Its really a design inspired by biology, organic user action is required.
So far only the XSS-finder portabelle has a witness running and it looks like some have selected to use it. Exactly as envisioned.
I am a volunteer to set up and run a witness. Would you replace one of your witnesses by mine in the default list at least until we get some well reputed "captain of industry" to replace me ? That means : are you socialy ready to start release hands on witnesses ? Personally, I am ready to place trust in community members. EDIT: Again the CfBs fear strikes, now reposting same useless pictures. Pathetic. |
|
|
|
... The network is a separate layer from the witnessing, but if you mean the progression of transactions, or that its actually usable, lets go with that. Each user can change 1 witness and witnessing goes on as usual, it doesnt affect how the DAG looks like at all. Its the majority of witnesses which matters, as long as a majority exists, even if several witnesses are replaced with many many other, and only 6 remain, it all still works. The other question, but a user replaces all or 2 witnesses with his own, has been answered, those are invalid transactions. An attack on Byteball is possible only if already existing witnesses collude and conspire. As you see, it is a very genius concept, a major major invention by Byteball, so it is hard for simpler minds like CfBs to fully grasp it. But he does like to post pictures, look a few pages back when he tried to compare Byteballs DAG to Ethereum blockchain with pictures,  . He hasnt even read the whitepaper, is just trolling and spreading FUD, every single one of his posts in this thread has been with intent to FUD. I haven't dove deep into the technicals of this coin, but from what I understand currently all 12 witnesses are controlled by tonych, so at this point an attack is possible if tonych becomes malicious or if he is coerced into doing something. To me, it's not clear how the transition from one person controlling all 12 witnesses to having them be distributed is likely or possible to occur - it would require active intervention on behalf of (almost) everyone making txs on the network, right? Most people don't care about stuff like this, especially if this doesn't happen early - the more users the higher proportion of them will be casual users who don't care about technical stuff like this. Replacing witnesses is a social question, its not inbuilt into the protocol to select/pick witnesses, they have to be picked by the users of the system, or if each user doesnt care, then the default hub byteball.org or other hubs can do the choice on behalf of the user. Its really a design inspired by biology, organic user action is required. So far only the XSS-finder portabelle has a witness running and it looks like some have selected to use it. Exactly as envisioned. |
|
|
|
A hub can do that, but if a unit (transaction) has more than 1 mutation its invalid. Only when 1 witness is replaced by others as well, when the new witness has posted enough stamps, the "stability point" can be moved forward, and then the next witness replaced.
In other words, if you replace one witness with yourself and I replace another witness with myself we'll split the network into two halves. There will be 50% of users behind your choice and 50% of users behind my choice. And of course, I will never accept you as a witness and you will never accept me. Looks like the consensus will diverge for indefinite period of time in this scenario. • the one allowed mutation is sufficiently small compared with the 11 unchanged witnesses. In case a user thinks that any of the witnesses has lost his credibility, or there are just better candidates, the user can replace the witness with a new witness in his list, bearing in mind that his witness list may not differ from that of other units by more than one position. This means that any changes can happen only gradually, and a general consensus is required for a change bigger than one position. Looks like Come-from-Beyond is right (?) So end users should not be allowed to change more than 1 witness on the default list or they would be separated from the rest of the network. Obviously this sound too like a problem. Can we have some clarification from tonych ? He has not been right one time in this entire thread, just an IOTA troll. The network is a separate layer from the witnessing, but if you mean the progression of transactions, or that its actually usable, lets go with that. Each user can change 1 witness and witnessing goes on as usual, it doesnt affect how the DAG looks like at all. Its the majority of witnesses which matters, as long as a majority exists, even if several witnesses are replaced with many many other, and only 6 remain, it all still works. The other question, but a user replaces all or 2 witnesses with his own, has been answered, those are invalid transactions. An attack on Byteball is possible only if already existing witnesses collude and conspire. As you see, it is a very genius concept, a major major invention by Byteball, so it is hard for simpler minds like CfBs to fully grasp it. But he does like to post pictures, look a few pages back when he tried to compare Byteballs DAG to Ethereum blockchain with pictures, . He hasnt even read the whitepaper, is just trolling and spreading FUD, every single one of his posts in this thread has been with intent to FUD. |
|
|
|
so what's the block time of byteball?
and how can we scalable the TPS?
or what's the maximum TPS?
thank you very much
See a few tens of pages back please these questions have been discussed and answered. |
|
|
|
The witness-list can be pulled from any hub, its a centralization/convenience exactly if you as user dont want to care but trust a hub-owner to keep up to date and do the choices for you. If you do want power and control you still have it though.
What if a malicious hub owner pushes its own list of Witnesses ? Isn't it a security threat ? Still not clear to me the "witness mecanism" of the network. Maybe I have to go seriously to the white paper... (RTFM) A hub can do that, but if a unit (transaction) has more than 1 mutation its invalid. Only when 1 witness is replaced by others as well, when the new witness has posted enough stamps, the "stability point" can be moved forward, and then the next witness replaced. Exactly how this works is in the whitepaper, do RTFineManual. There are some small rules, which need to be followed, the worse which happens if someone doesnt follow the rules, those transactions are invalid, its like sending malformed data. |
|
|
|
Why so slow sync? Only 17% for 5 hours of running
Its not optimized for speed yet, as this is first release focus was 100% on correctness and avoidance of bugs. |
|
|
|
I love thisproject however I have a problem with the witnesses choose mecanism, aka "12 catpains of industry" or well reputed equivalent.
First (and biggest one) : who is to coopte such "captains". In a supposed decentralysed network it means a central authority somewhere or at least a consensus voting system.
Second : what if no such "captain of industry" joins in? Should we bless project founders for eternity ? (we all die some day).
Three : 12 is a too limited number. This is intentionaly set so that we can humanely follow the witnesses quality. But I do not want to ask periodicaly myself whereas witnesses are good quality or not. I just want to feel confident with the network any time.
I would suggest the following :
- no more limited witnesses number
- all wallets could optionnaly run as witnesses
- if a end-user wishes to act as a witness is has to back some "good" amount of GBYTE (prevent spam and initial amount for serial post).
- each time a witness serial post he is awarded more than its post cost (aka end users are prone to become witnesses for profit)
- wallets choose their witnesses in a hard-coded random fashion among all witnesses pool.
First of all, I remind you that following the witness lists of "captains of industry" is just a suggestion how witness lists could be updated, it is not a protocol-level thing. That said, I don't think the question of captains of industry is that hard. If you ask me about captains of auto industry today, I would name GM, Ford, Toyota, Renault, Michelin, and a few others. In Bitcoin industry today: AlphaBay, Coinbase, Localbitcoins, Overstock, Polo, and a few others. But I do not want to ask periodicaly myself whereas witnesses are good quality or not. You don't have to. If you don't want to or feel unable to make decisions yourself in this particular area, you can always follow the opinion of someone you trust. To clarify, there is no such thing as "wish to act as a witness", you can only "wish to be named as a witness". Anyone can be named a witness by anyone. The above was 100% human, 0% technical. Regarding suggested protocol changes, all such changes should be carefully analyzed with respect to potential consequences, in particular whether they could lead to consensus failures such as forks and deadlocks. I think attracting industries leader is the gambit. But anyway your work is awesome. It is a wonderfull project I do beleive in. Sure Polo and others will beleive in too (where you Satochi Nakamoto in a previous life ?). Back to the witnesses and human behavior. I suppose that most of the humans are as lazy as I am and will just let their wallet download the Witnesses list from the hub which is in your hands. This can be called de facto centralization. For the future it would be nice to have some community place (on https://byteball.org/ or part of the wallet ?) where one (industry leader or average well reputed guy) could apply to be "named as a witness" and end user would vote for or against. For all of us guys : here is the link to ask Polo to add GBYTE Its not so much per se a gambit that industry leaders of bitcoin will take Byteball. Its more like Byteball will grow its own leaders. The witness-list can be pulled from any hub, its a centralization/convenience exactly if you as user dont want to care but trust a hub-owner to keep up to date and do the choices for you. If you do want power and control you still have it though. Organizing a secure voting is possible in Byteball, the network/protocol supports that. Havent seen anyone doing it yet, just mentioned in whitepaper. The place were community is now is slack and here, so here and on the slack some users have posted their witness and asked to be added by others. Of course, it would be nice to move this community to a Byteball platform, a forum based on Byteball. That would be sweet. |
|
|
|
If you just want to help out the network running a byteball-hub or relay is enough.
I have set up and now operating a new relay on a dedicated box with 300Mbps unmetered bandwidth. Address: wss://byteball.fr/bb Location: France I have more than 15 years experience with Linux sysadmin. I can set up a witness if the the community asks. Awesome! Your hub will be auto-discovered by the rest of the network and use it, thus helping with the load. |
|
|
|
tonych should update the first post of this thread with new exchanges.
there are new exchanges trading Byteball?? cryptox.pl, bitsquare and cryptopia |
|
|
|
What do you mean by claim? Generate a wallet address in cryptopia?
Bytes, if you have 10GB deposited at your cryptox.pl account, you just click on BM Code in account settings and you can redeem/withdraw your 1GB, the 10% from a distribution. To claim blackbytes, you have to talk to owner of cryptox.pl on Slack or email, this process is harder to automate since blackbytes are private and you both need to pair before transmitting. |
|
|
|
What will happen with the bytes on exchanges, will they receive part of the distribution? What about the blackbytes that get distributed?
Cryptox.pl so far has distributed the bytes to account-holders, and if you claim I think the owner will give you blackbytes too, otherwise they go to community fund. Of course the cryptox.pl takes a percentage for offering this service. |
|
|
|
Hi,
Love the project, however any command line version for unix systems ?
$ ../nwjs-v0.14.7-linux-x64/nw .
[23625:23625:0406/110342:ERROR:browser_main_loop.cc(271)] Gtk: cannot open display:
Thanks
There is a headless-wallet which you can use as "command-line" interface, but if you only like to start the GUI Wallet from command line, the binary is called Byteball, so unzip it then ./Byteball. Working with the headless-wallet is tedious and not like a normal command-line interface. The above error "cannot open display" is due to running it without Xorg server, or without X11 forwarding with ssh, or as another user which doesnt have ~/.Xauthority and DISPLAY env set. Hi SatoNatomato, Thank you for your answer. I would like to set up a node on a distant serveur (with no X11 only root ssh) to operate as a witness. What should I run actually ? Headless Byteball - headless wallet, primarily for server side use. Byteball Relay - relay node for Byteball network. It doesn't hold any private keys. Byteball Hub - hub for Byteball network. Includes the relay, plus can store and forward end-to-end encrypted messages among devices on the Byteball network. Thank you It was a long time since I done it, so other people in here might help more. But yes, basically, byteball-witness has all the other dependencies which it needs such as headless-byteball, so you dont need to run that, you only need to run byteball-witness, either with npm install byteball-witness, or git clone github.com/byteball/byteball-witness then "npm install" and "npm run", or "node start.js", then it will tell you the rest, such as ask for passphrase and print out its device-pairing string which you need to pair with it and ask it for "balance" "address" and pay some bytes to it so it can start witnessing. You can then follow it in the explorer and see if it posts any units. More instructions are in the README.md on the github. The nginx/web-socket things/configurations arent needed to run the witness, only for the hub. If you just want to help out the network running a byteball-hub or relay is enough. The headless-wallet is mainly meant if you need to send payments programmatically from a web-service like environment, or for people who dont like GUIs. |
|
|
|
Hi,
Love the project, however any command line version for unix systems ?
$ ../nwjs-v0.14.7-linux-x64/nw .
[23625:23625:0406/110342:ERROR:browser_main_loop.cc(271)] Gtk: cannot open display:
Thanks
There is a headless-wallet which you can use as "command-line" interface, but if you only like to start the GUI Wallet from command line, the binary is called Byteball, so unzip it then ./Byteball. Working with the headless-wallet is tedious and not like a normal command-line interface. The above error "cannot open display" is due to running it without Xorg server, or without X11 forwarding with ssh, or as another user which doesnt have ~/.Xauthority and DISPLAY env set. |
|
|
|
As an alternative to Cryptox.pl you could try to use the Bitcoin oracle in order to exchange Bitcoin and Byteballs with someone else. Of course it is not an exchange replacement but it is a new save way to trade. can we get byteball on bittrex so I dont have to use a janky ass exchange?
I am just playing a little bit around with Byteball and I am wondering if there is an API I can use to access DAG data on localhost? Couldn't find any information on the web. Other users have said they take a copy of the byteball.sqlite file and access it with any sqlite browsers, even the CLI sqlite3 works well. Alternative is, you could run the byteball-explorer yourself locally, and thus explore the DAG with that nice interface. |
|
|
|
Do I understand this correctly that to use this betting feature one must find:
1. some other user eager to be a counterparty to the betting contract
2. find out the other user's device address
3. pair the wallet with the other user's device
4. start a chat and set up a contract as described in the medium post
If that's correct we need some community forums to find possible counterparty users to bet with.
Slack channels is good short-term solution, similar to finding trading partners to exchange any other asset or currency, there should be a channel to find prediction-market betters. |
|
|
|
49 Byteball Byteball $9,471,774 $68.91 137,442 GBYTE * $16,787 -3.89%
so when byteball will have a 20M marketcap ?
in another 4 rounds?
When the full moon hits the sky thats when Byteball market cap goes high |
|
|
|
Yes, you are right!
Byteball has such a huge potential. We can brainstorm ideas about what you can do with a "blockchain" (yeah its really a DAG) that can store arbitrary data.
It is like the HDD equivalent of Ethereum. Maybe it can be combined with Ethereum? The "world computer" needs memory after all. Ethereum smart contracts reading and writing data from Byteball?
Byteball has its own smart contracts, but better with declarative style and not-fully turing complete (but maybe by accident as many other things). You can make an uncensorable twitter, with built-in pay-for-each-byte-of-your message. |
|
|
|
Byteball first real? What is about IOTA?) Iota is not yet in actual livenet production, its consensus algorithm is still "ask the developer to include your balance in the next milestone database release"-stage. |
|
|
|
|
Any bounties for writing technical documentation or developing features?
|
|
|
|
...and coming with unique ideas.
ok.. here you got my attention :-) can you share with us, in a few word, what are this unique ideas?? just a small description.. then i can study in deep by myself!! thank you Yes you can do that |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
