thanks for 1.1.0 and a feature request:
I like to keep my cryptocoin data directories on an encrypted drive, so it would be nice if byteball was flexible in where it puts it's data directory.
A start paramater like bitcoin's -datadir=... would be just fine for a start.
Yeah thats nice but I guess you could always crate a symlink from ~/.config/byteball to where you want it to be, until the "feature-request" is fulfilled. |
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byteball is interesting project but Byteball only serves the riches.
Whiner forum is over at whinertalk.org go there please. |
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any plans of listing on new exchanges?
people are filling up requests for polo but looks like it will take a long time...
Thats not really up for this project to decide, its in the exchanges decision to include it, and what support to provide for their users, or not. It is however very easy to trade on cryptox.pl or the btc-byteball exchange bot. Do you really need more exchanges? I do not doubt the integrity of the cryptox administrator, But historically so much exchange has closed and the crytos have flown away. Always prefer to store BB on your wallet. I didnt advocate storing ones cryptocoins in other peoples computerd. Thats dumb. Just go to cryptox.pl make an account transfer btc into that account, buy bytes, transfer them out to your own wallet. Done how hars can that be. |
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no other trading sites for byteball least reliable trading site for me to get some byteball
https://cryptox.pl go there and buy bytes or dont, just stay here and whine, increasing whining as the price of bytes increase. |
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any plans of listing on new exchanges?
people are filling up requests for polo but looks like it will take a long time...
Thats not really up for this project to decide, its in the exchanges decision to include it, and what support to provide for their users, or not. It is however very easy to trade on cryptox.pl or the btc-byteball exchange bot. Do you really need more exchanges? |
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 Borrowed wife's K7 (phone) because my S3 was not supported. Sent the required minimum BTC using a Coinomi wallet. Received the Byteball fractional amount and wrote the 12 passphrase on paper. When I gave her back her phone, she spitefully deleted the ByteBall app before her next argument with me! When she took a nap I grabbed her K7 and re-downloaded the ByteBall app but cannot find a restore function. Nice one!  In many civilized countries, such acts make divorce justified. |
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Can anyone eli5 how the witnesses/validators are selected? Is it basically PoS, so that the large ICO Bitcoin addresses could basically run the network as they wish if they were so inclined?
They are selected by voting by users wallets, each user can change 1 of 12, and over time the bad one will be replaced with a good one. No its not built into protocol the selection of witnesses, its up to actual reputation and marketing in real world. Right, but how is reputation and marketing in the real world determined algorithmically? If it's just number of votes, couldn't large ICO holders easily make the most txs and thus vote themselves as most reputable, especially when the coin is relatively small like now? This is where the system is anchored to the real world. If someone feels that witness X should be replaced with witness Y for whatever reason, he can start a campaign and try to convince others to do the replacement (in the current version of the wallet, this can be done only manually in wallet settings). While some people have already switched to the new witness list and some are still on the old one, all users are able to add their transactions to the DAG because a difference of 1 witness is allowed. After the change has diffused throughout the network, a new change can be campaigned for and realized. Obviously, no "votes" from anonymous users can be relied upon in a system with no barriers to entry. ICO holders don't get any more power automatically just from holding larger bags. Can you explain more technically how the change of witness is diffused througout the network? Which votes count, anybody making transactions? 1 vote per transaction? Btw, does the amount of witnesses, 12, impose limits on transactions/second in any way, or latency for finality? |
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Can anyone eli5 how the witnesses/validators are selected? Is it basically PoS, so that the large ICO Bitcoin addresses could basically run the network as they wish if they were so inclined?
They are selected by voting by users wallets, each user can change 1 of 12, and over time the bad one will be replaced with a good one. No its not built into protocol the selection of witnesses, its up to actual reputation and marketing in real world. Right, but how is reputation and marketing in the real world determined algorithmically? If it's just number of votes, couldn't large ICO holders easily make the most txs and thus vote themselves as most reputable, especially when the coin is relatively small like now? Yes, that could happen, that is also (probably, tonych can explain better) why all witnesses cant be replaced at once, but only 1 replacement per some amount of events happening, think it was dependent on amount of Main Chain balls since witness was voted on. So the cost of your described scenario would be quite high - its doable by ICOs right now, but that would diminish plenty (maybe not all) of their existing bytes - in exchange for having 1 witness collecting fees. And their witness would still not be used by others like me and you. The system allows all users 1 different witness from the others. Seems like a bad trade/bad attack - and preferably they can just launch their witness and ask people to use it - thats much cheaper. |
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Can anyone eli5 how the witnesses/validators are selected? Is it basically PoS, so that the large ICO Bitcoin addresses could basically run the network as they wish if they were so inclined?
They are selected by voting by users wallets, each user can change 1 of 12, and over time the bad one will be replaced with a good one. No its not built into protocol the selection of witnesses, its up to actual reputation and marketing in real world. |
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Hi! New here and been trying to read through the chain but taking its time, very interesting and love to get involved. I was wondering if I missed linking my Bitcoin for the first round is it too late to link it now? Secondly what's the easiest way to link if I'm using Jaxx? I'm guessing I'll need to transfer all coins to a single address as I don't see it working otherwise? Anyone else have similar problems? Thanks!
Consider buying GB from cryptox.pl then second round will give you 10% per each GB you have. If you have 1BTC you get 62.5Mb. Price was about 0,025btv/GB so now buying GBs with BTC will give you more in second round. I linked BTC in first round, got GBs, then sold BTCs to aquire more GBs. |
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I have a question I linked one of my btc add to the byteball android app than I linked my other one to the linux wallet how long does it take for them two show up on http://transition.byteball.org/ thanks Currently, that page is frozen with the balances and linked addresses used for the first round, so for now it is not getting updated. I think it might be the time to unfreeze it and/or maybe keep that state in a separate page: transition.byteball.org/firstround.html for instance, and update the main page with the current links. That would be good I was going crazy thinking it was just me thanks for the update Since the Page is terminated or taken down free BALL donations will stop. I hope that Page will never get back, even if it does I will launch a DDOS attack against it. Why so mad? |
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All of the tech differences aside, I guess that is the actual biggest difference between IOTA and Byteball  wat? Byteball is cool (I own quite a bit of both) but Iota is really far along with corporate interest, Foundation (funds), exchanges, etc.. Byteball is great but has a long way to go to catch up to Iota on the real world front. Thats right, IOTA is much ahead of Byteball in terms of adoption. But then, IOTA had more than a year to do that, right? Ok, I agree that is one more big difference  But I am sure with bright and positive leader who doesn't put people off, Byteball has bigger chances to catch up this year. Though they are not competitors anyway. They could be competitors, I see no good reason why we couldnt port Byteball to ESP8266 or ESP32, there are module versions of that thing with more than 16MB flash - enough to hold a light wallet and some data. There is already a Javascript firmware for it called Espruino. ESP8266 is anyway the king of IoT, with WiFi, esp32 has bluetooth (is also dual-core), and can do TLS. All in that chip for price of $2 its amazing. Byteball would blow Iota out of the water on that thing - since it doesnt have PoW to waste precious cycles and battery on - an esp8266 could run for months on two AA batteries, waking up every few minutes to send-transaction and deliver sensor data, or both as part of a byteball smart transaction. All from a wifi-enabled chip smaller than your thumb. Maybe this is why Iota leadership is so horny on censoring and deleting my posts. I think they are deleting your posts just because they are more interested in their project, not in Byteball. It is not really welcome to hijack some other project discussion threads, and aggressively promote third-party project, while bashing their own one. Their reaction is pretty normal. Don't you think so? IOTA has some great community members, and few great developers, they are doing their thing and doing it well. First of all, they do the adoption thing, promotion, find good advisors and create real-world connections. That alone gives that project a great value. Even if (note the if) Byteball is superior in many aspects, IOTA has a lot on the table, it is not going to be replaced with Byteball, and would be wise not to try to attack them without any need If your plan is to attract people from IOTA community to work on Byteball, then probably you chose not the best tactics...
Back to the main topic. It sounds interesting.. Did you measure the performance of Byteball? What makes you belueve it is lightweight enough to be put on such a low-end microcontroller? Actually this raises a good question: what is the min resource requirement to run Byteball wallet? (in terms of CPU power, RAM, Storage). Yeah, but its one thing to delete my posts where they are moderators in their own Iota thread. Another to delete my own threads. And its okay to delete my posts if I was spamming, but merely questioning the value and technology behind Iota, comparing it to similar technology, the only other DAG-based coin, asking questions and then deleted is a bit too Stalin-like for my taste. They should be able to respond to any attempted bashing of their precious Iota, unless of course, they also realize its vaporware-shit and only has a good marketing campaign going for it right now. BTW, my plan isnt to attract anyone to anything, my plan is to discuss and learn new things, and encourage others to learn and improve, and select the best technologies for scalable cryptocurrencies. Anyway, back to topic. a full GUI wallet is using 38MB resident memory, so it looks good on that front to put it on a microcontroller. |
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All of the tech differences aside, I guess that is the actual biggest difference between IOTA and Byteball wat? Byteball is cool (I own quite a bit of both) but Iota is really far along with corporate interest, Foundation (funds), exchanges, etc.. Byteball is great but has a long way to go to catch up to Iota on the real world front. Thats right, IOTA is much ahead of Byteball in terms of adoption. But then, IOTA had more than a year to do that, right? Ok, I agree that is one more big difference But I am sure with bright and positive leader who doesn't put people off, Byteball has bigger chances to catch up this year. Though they are not competitors anyway. They could be competitors, I see no good reason why we couldnt port Byteball to ESP8266 or ESP32, there are module versions of that thing with more than 16MB flash - enough to hold a light wallet and some data. There is already a Javascript firmware for it called Espruino. ESP8266 is anyway the king of IoT, with WiFi, esp32 has bluetooth (is also dual-core), and can do TLS. All in that chip for price of $2 its amazing. Byteball would blow Iota out of the water on that thing - since it doesnt have PoW to waste precious cycles and battery on - an esp8266 could run for months on two AA batteries, waking up every few minutes to send-transaction and deliver sensor data, or both as part of a byteball smart transaction. All from a wifi-enabled chip smaller than your thumb. Maybe this is why Iota leadership is so horny on censoring and deleting my posts. |
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If the user waits that the transaction is final, he cannot be defrauded.
In your example, you isolate the merchant from the real network and feed him with a fake branch. The merchant will accept your units and add them to his version of the DAG, but since there are no witness-authored units on your branch, it will not move the stability point forward and your double-spent payment will stay unconfirmed for as long as your attack continues. Number of nodes is totally irrelevant, it is the presence of witnesses what makes a branch real.
Great, I hope now SatoNatomato sees why IOTA couldn't use the same method of peer discovery. I now hope you understand Iotas Proof-of-Work is useless as it doesnt prevent against Sybils and is only wasting precious CPU cycles on small IoT devices. And that Iota is decentralized, but not trustless.  You sire are a scammer and a censoring scoundrel. |
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Great!
Mining on nicehash as thanks for the great nvidia cuda support.
Anyway even if nicehash takes 3%, just mining it and never worrying or exchaning ZEC for BTC is worth it, if your time is valued less than 1USD per hour, only then you can "invest" your time in mining on other pools and exchaning your zecs manually.
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Please do tell, which IoT platforms does Iota currently run on?
What IoT platforms do you know, if any? Laughable response, But its nice to let people know in this thread that Iota is a shitcoin not to be invested or thought of seriously. Iota is decentralized but not trustless. Requires trust in slack channels for peering nodes to avoid Sybils, despite employing PoW for transactions. Just laughable. Gonna need more popcorn here. We had such systems back in 2001. |
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If the user waits that the transaction is final, he cannot be defrauded.
In your example, you isolate the merchant from the real network and feed him with a fake branch. The merchant will accept your units and add them to his version of the DAG, but since there are no witness-authored units on your branch, it will not move the stability point forward and your double-spent payment will stay unconfirmed for as long as your attack continues. Number of nodes is totally irrelevant, it is the presence of witnesses what makes a branch real.
Great, I hope now SatoNatomato sees why IOTA couldn't use the same method of peer discovery. I hope you now see how Iota is fail. It doesnt even have Sybil-defense without resorting to slack-channels, despite the PoW employed which Byteball doesnt need, and Iota expected to be used on IoT devices? Okay! Iota - Just another pump and dump ICO coin to enrich the founders - which is why you like spreading FUD on something which actually works, and which actually can be used on IoT devices. |
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This explains why there is no a protection against an eclipse attack, which can be conducted if a naive peer discovery is used (which is the case of Byteball, I noticed this trying to recover byteballs of my friend). In IOTA necessity to talk to people is an anti-Sybil measure. Poor SatoNatomato doesn't understand all these nuances, I suggest to forgive his childishness.
For the record, peer discovery is irrelevant to consensus in Byteball. Even if Sybiled, a node cannot select a wrong branch, by design. The worst that can happen to a node while it is Sybiled, is that the node will stay stuck at some old point on the DAG, as if it were offline. CfB if you want to reply, IOTA thread is not the best place for in-depth discussion of Byteball, post to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1608859.0. This is an attack that came to my mind while I was reading the source code trying to get what "device ID" was for: The whitepaper says: There is no partial order between them. In this case, we accept both. We establish a total order between the units later on, when they are buried deep enough under newer units (see below how we do it). The one that appears earlier on the total order is deemed valid, while the other is deemed invalid. In normal use, people mostly link their new units to slightly less recent units, meaning that the DAG grows only in one direction. The former allows to trick a user into believing that he received coins (if we can censor the traffic). The latter allows to make the others extend a branch we need (if we can (to some extent) censor the global traffic). Imagine that I have poisoned the network and 90% of the nodes (not physical machines, just IPs) are controlled by me. What stops me from scamming a merchant in such way: 1. Issue a payment to the merchant and a payment to myself with "no partial order between them" 2. Make the others to prioritize the payment to myself (the branch with the payment to merchants will be extend too and this is the only transactions the merchant will see) 3. Get the purchased item delivered 4. Stop the attack, my payment is already considered as a part of the main chain, let the merchant to see that his payment is not. This is a scary thought. I hope the developer can mitigate this potential vulnerability if the above-mentioned procedure really works. Its bull and FUD, which CFB would have known if he actually read the whitepaper. This is what witnesses are for, the payment is not Finaluzed as Confirmed unless a witness sees it, which in the scenario doesnt happen. Its the same dumb attack as sending a goods after no confirmations in bitcoin. |
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trolling intensifies. and there are discussions in slack but your imagination is your problem, not IOTA's. everyone is saying that Byteball is legit, but no competitor in the IoT. What's wrong about that?
Byteball is also 50% owned by 4 ICO groups; Lisk, Waves, Iconomi and Kmodo. The distribution model will kill it, unfortunately. 50% from 10 % .... Yes, but those groups will only have to just sit back and collect more Byteball with each distribution round. Yeah, but that is like when you cant criticize the technology, then criticize those who were willing to use the technology. Nothing stopped you from linking your BTCs to get your share of Bytes and lower the share those others got. Besides, the distribution of Bytes is not over only 10% have been distributed so far, and if a few holders end up with large % of the total supply, is not a show-stopper as early-adaptors of Bitcoin still hold a large % of the total supply, the inequality is not a show-stopper for success - the total number of users is the verdict. Iota is not a competitor to Byteball, but the Iota foundation members and developers have a hostile attitude with kicking and banning, and even in this channel hostile just towards people for mentioning Byteball. All it took for you guys to stop even attempting to answer my questions was a mention of Byteball. Sad really. Sad. |
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I’m not a very good technical expert, but I think at the moment there are running 12 „Witness-Nodes“ and they are saving the Network. At the moment they are hosted by developer Tony in the Future it should be de-centralized and you can chose them in your wallet.
So at the moment the Network is not fully decentralized.
This explains why there is no a protection against an eclipse attack, which can be conducted if a naive peer discovery is used (which is the case of Byteball, I noticed this trying to recover byteballs of my friend). In IOTA necessity to talk to people is an anti-Sybil measure. Poor SatoNatomato doesn't understand all these nuances, I suggest to forgive his childishness. LOL. OK Ill just ask all the customers of my IoT device to join your slack channel and talk to peer their IoT devices with each other in order to transact worthless iota tokens. You can throw words around, eclipse, but its not like you understand how to construct usable valuable software. Anti-Sybil measures can be implemented without resorting to slack-channels, such as Persea. But you wouldnt know of that right. And byteball has, just like most other cryptocurrencies, especially PoS based ones, Eclipse-attack protection in the form of - "hey visit an or two public explorers and check your address and balance before you actually use it to transact to ensure you are not eclipsed". Your attempts at defaming byteball is laughable. Just like kicking and banning byteball discussion in Iota slack. trolling intensifies. and there are discussions in slack but your imagination is your problem, not IOTA's. everyone is saying that Byteball is legit, but no competitor in the IoT. What's wrong about that? Byteball is more suited for IoT than Iota is. Please do tell, which IoT platforms does Iota currently run on? |
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