Update: Just woke up on the couch, apparently I need some sleep. Will crash for a few hours and then update thread again.
Question, who pays for the power and colocation? Or will you be hosting it in your home? |
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Euh, What's wrong with that? If you look at the website they created they are donating to projects, effectively spending the amount.
They are donating to the EFF (which won't take it), their own paid shill and contractor (luke-jr/BFGminer) and another paid shill and contractor (CGminer/ckolivas/Kano) Yeah fuck you too. ... and no I didn't get any so fuck you again  Oh smart, they could very well say the free machines they "donated" to Kano are indeed producing coins for his benefit. LOL --------------- I just thought of something for you to use Sonny/Josh/Et al. You don't even need to donate 1000BTC. Just claim that Kano's 1 jally will eventually produce 1000 coins over it's life (30 some odd years). This way you don't actually have to produce 1000 BTC. Sounds good?   |
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Euh, What's wrong with that? If you look at the website they created they are donating to projects, effectively spending the amount.
Ok, they aren't sending 1000 BTC to a traditional charity, but they are still giving it away...
Donation as a form of self propelling ones buisness is not a donation. (in my book) Coca Cola might "donate" to a supplier that then mines a mineral that goes into their [own] products and reduces cost to their bottom line. Is it a real donation? If they fund projects "omni-directionally" that deal with BitCoin (and not their specific products), then yes, they would passably be donating. |
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Un-believeable!
Really ? I'm not in the least bit surprised Honestly, neither am I. It was expected and even joked about that they might do this....then they did. Celebrities and Companies (scummy ones) do it all the time. It is a trick to remove taxes, a good PR stunt and most importantly...you dont' actually donate to anyone. Is BFL doing this for those reasons, I don't know. |
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No, they will not receive a scammer tag over the matter of their ASICs being late until several months go by with no progress. Stop asking.
How about for failing to pay up on bets posted on this forum? That is apparently also okay. You can get away with it, apparently. If I am wrong about that, no doubt, Moderators or Admins will see to it that it is clearly stated as "not acceptable" in this thread. |
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So far, Bad Bear and Maged (Global Moderators) are at the very least on the same page.
No discernible dissenting opinions that I can see. <Shrug>
It is, what it is.
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Now I could redo my scenario to fit exactly the BFL scenario.
And if what Maged said is the unanimous consensus among administration. I could very well say I got the nod of "it is okay by us".
If not, then let us hear *any* dissenting opinion. If none dissent on that opinion, then I can very well assume there is a way around the scammer tag.
"Take funds as you will, promise everything under the stars but even if you deliver nothing of substance. Make absolutely sure to return what the buyer are owed. Everything is fine by us. Whatever you made from that funding is yours to keep."
Someone...please give dissent on this opinion or everyone silently agrees this is "okay".
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Whats interesting is that if I follow a parallel scenario to the BFL route, I could very well amass 300 BTC from buyers on BitCoinTalk.org
...Then do with as I please for many months (investing, gambling, whatever) and if I am lucky, when my customer(s) become irate. Return to them what they are due.
My benefits from doing this are that I borrowed 300 BTC from the community, made actual income money with it, but failed to live up to expectations for many months. (many months = more than 4)
I can still come out smelling absolutely clean in the eyes of the Mods and Admins by simply returning to the buyers what was theirs minus whatever that income generated or the promises I meant to keep....and I'll never get a SCAMMER Tag.
Why?
Because....that is okay. I got mine, my customers got theirs (minus my promises to keep) and I will never get a Scammer Tag. Why?
Because that is okay as a standard on BitCoinTalk. Am I right?
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[2013-06-04 12:15:28] AVA0: FPGA controller messed up, 1 wrong results This is a harmless warning that happens at regular intervals where the system will reset itself. If your avalon is mining, don't worry. Indeed, wifes are known for fudging Avalon's. You may need to replace the wife with a newer model as soon as possible. (I am kidding!) |
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https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3026-forced-refunds-7.html#post37603--- BFL_Josh Employee
Xian has been banned again (Does this make the 3rd or 4th time?) and his posts removed. Same goes for Jordin.
Poor guy is spending thousands of dollars for nothing. I think he may be off his meds or something. Thanks for compiling all the memorable quotes by Xian. I see he's removed some of them, though, as they don't show up there. Love that rewriting history he's doing, heh.
As for the topic of the thread, it's gotten way too convoluted to deal with here. Your purchaser will need to contact CS directly and try to sort it out. I'm honestly not sure what's even happened at this point, if anything. To my knowledge, we have not started canceling orders yet, unless CS has instituted a new policy that I'm not currently aware of.
--- So lets see here - Josh lies on the BFL forums to all his customers - I call him on it in their own forums citing specific examples and even take the high road of formally posting an apology. Have my lawyer call Jordan to discuss his case. - Josh deletes my well reasoned and cogent comments and continues his taunting See a pattern developing ? Remember. I'm the bad guy here folks. Hypocrisy: I post comments. Josh deletes them. I'm the one rewriting (or deleting) inconvenient history. Irony: The thousands Josh is going to need to spend on their own lawyer when dealing with mine. Yeah, I saw that. And on a personal note, I really cannot understand how or why he is acting so completely irrationally with respect to this, almost like he finds this funny or as a joke  This is not normal behavior. It's so easy for him to do the right thing here, and it's really sad we're now going to have to put Newton's Third Law into motion legally So much for trying to resolve this as adults. Irrational behavior is the first sign of stupidity, I suppose. Perhaps he doesn't yet know that you are actually serious about this? (I can only imagine how many cases we don't yet know about) |
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BTC-e would have to become a ripple gateway like Bitstamp before you could do that.
Can't a series of users themselves become a gateway? I thought ripples main selling point was finding routes? Problem is providing trust along those routes. Why not just do the same thing the exchanges are doing? Make the other person provide a deposit and THEN, issue the IOU. Sounds like a solution? (At least until a proper gateway is implemented) |
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Help me understand, what is so compelling about BFL chips that would make me buy few?
Because..... (Shit! I have no good answer...fook it...time to deflect!)  There did your mind just blank out right now? Good. What were we talking about again?  <MASTER BFL Shill> |
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Well it's been over 48 hours, several people have tried starting group buys but as far as I can see not a SINGLE person has commited to SINGLE chip. A few who did show interest would only do so if payment was on delivery and nothing up front. Sanity prevails on bitcointalk Puts on MASTER BFL Shill costume. WTH, BFL customers?! BUY Damnit, BUY NOW. BUY MORE! .......alright I didn't want to do this...but.... Moderators, cut the oxygen to BitCoinTalk by 20%. If they won't buy because of "sanity"...they will buy through induced hypoxia. We just need to level out this "thing" called sanity once and for all... (MASTER BFL Shill) |
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asicminer sells blades 50 btc per 10ghash, so 230s not crazy high. Still think 2.5 btc per ghash is my entry point.
I'm you will probably find someone that will pay around your 'opening' price because there's still the Bitcoin ASIC fever going on but I highly doubt much more. I'd have started the auction a bit lower. Considering ASICMINER blades pricing of 50btc * 7 = 350btc for the same GH/s, it's clearly a bargain. Especially keeping in mind that those blades will be shipping god-knows-when while this unit can start mining for you tomorrow. If no one is willing to make a reasonable bid for this unit, I'm quite content keeping it to myself. I'm not in any hurry to sell it at all. I don't think it's a bargain at all, you are comparing it with ASICMINER blades which are hugely overpriced and that will NEVER reach ROI, so... I think you know that probably your Avalon won't mine 230 BTC in its remaining life-span, and that's why you are good to sell it at that price. Gotta give him a star for trying! |
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Good decision placing that batch 1 order!
Well, it was far from a certain bet at the time... remember, Avalon was supposed to ship 5 months AFTER the BFL initially... Yeah I am not trying to be rude - just a little facetious. Personally I would think very seriously about buying something with more than 1 month ROI. If people are right about growth 73ghs will only get 1 btc a day in a month  That is about right. Probably why he is selling it now... |
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https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/terms-outside#user_responsibilitiesPart 4 Prohibited Transactions. You agree that you will not use PayPal to accept payment for illegal products or services, including but not limited to materials that infringe the intellectual property rights of third parties. You will not use the Service, the PayPal website or any of the services offered therein for any unlawful or fraudulent activity. If PayPal (or Wells Fargo, in connection with processing credit card transactions) has reason to believe that you may be engaging in or have engaged in fraudulent, unlawful, or improper activity, including without limitation any violation of any terms and conditions of this Agreement, your access to the Service may be suspended or terminated. Further, if such behavior involved a MasterCard or VISA credit card transaction, it may result in you/your business being prevented from registering for payment acceptance through any payment provider or directly with any bank acquirer operating under license to either the MasterCard or VISA card associations. You will cooperate fully with PayPal Wells Fargo, MasterCard or VISA to investigate any suspected unlawful, fraudulent or improper activity, including but not limited to granting authorized PayPal representatives "guest" or "member" access to any password-protected portions of your website. You also agree not to use your PayPal account to sell goods with delivery dates delayed more than 20 days from the date of payment, or to sell securities, business opportunities, franchises or multi-level marketing or goods with delivery delayed more than 20 days from the date of payment. You agree not to impersonate a PayPal User or a PayPal representative, or to request that a PayPal customer provide you with their password or other information to access their account.================= Highlights for pointing out the obvious...
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Only credit card companies might save their ass (consumer)...
BFL doesn't take credit cards. PayPal does... Sure, but after 45 days Paypal considers the sale final. So if you have an old pre-order (100 days old for instance ), Paypal won't help you. Since the CC companies are paying Paypal and Paypal didn't rip you off, the CC companies won't help you. That is why people were recommending renewing a pre-order every 45 days with BFL through PayPal. That's what I thought, but it's not the case; apparently depends on the card issuer. I've been looking into this and speaking to banks... BFL and Paypal get charged a hefty fee whenever you do a chargeback through your credit card and sideswipe their normal processes. Bonus for those of you who feel helpless and maybe even a little vengeful. Vengeance aside, it is still leverage. Most reputable merchants will be more flexible in the face of a chargeback where they are assessed additional fees. But yes, I've successfully charged back items as late as 6 months after a purchase that went bad. The scummier the merchant, the more willing they are to go to bat for you. I can atest to this being true. (Ref: The chargeback fees) The biggest issue is not that you get charged a fee for a chargeback. It is that you gain a reputation for poor transactions. Most Merchant accounts (that accept Credit Cards) will only allow you to fail 2% of the time. Then they drop you and charge you a termination fee. There are probably several reasons why BFL doesn't have a standard Credit Card account*. The Main Rep (Josh) has even lashed out at Paypal on BFL forums. (which I am sure is against their terms of service) Link: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/2843-what-happened-pay-google.html#post34971 If they lose PayPal, they lose a good portion of their Credit Card charging ability. I am unsure whether BitPay accepts CC. I believe they do not and only deal with Virtual Currency. -------------------- Anyway, BFL customers don't complain enough, hence why they get bent over a desk quite alot. (Rather than them bending someone over the desk) *PayPal Merchant Account is not considered a "real" standard merchant account in my opinion. |
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If you determine that it is your TP-Link board I have spares, in stock ready to ship, already modded with RAM upgrade, USB power mod, and the latest Avalon firmware (note: this excludes external wifi connector) for 1 BTC including standard USPS shipping in the US.
Kinda interested...but damn that is a steep price for a 20$ part. 20$ part for 120$? Perhaps we should make a thread for known sellers of replacement Avalon parts. (At least until Yifu gets his warranty plan into place) |
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[Speculation and thoughts]
Grabs the magician by the arm and shakes his cuff...oh look at that, a contract fell out that shows you already placed a new batch order for new wafers before you even started selling the new bulk orders....huh.
So this means the wait is less than 90 days right?
=================
It makes me wonder if this is a bait and switch operation? I will give you the old chips, as long as you pay for my new ones.
(Is an implied pre-order delay in the cards? Or will they ship out a small low volume stream of pre-orders until they get the new chips to keep customers satisfied?)
How do you certify that you actually got the new batch and not an old one? How does one figure this out? (Besides the power numbers?)
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https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/3014-butterfly-labs-announces-bulk-chip-sales-4.html#post37268Josh makes the next promise.... We promise we won't use the new chips for pre-orders. (And conversely, we won't use the old chips for bulk orders) Right.... How much do you want to bet (rhetorical) that they will dump on BFL customers the current high power consumption batch they have...and use the newly ordered batches for pre-orders? Josh promises 100 days and they will ship out all pre-orders. Somehow, I am skeptical. I see a 100+ day delay and then they begin shipping... I'd bet the BFL chips you get will be consuming more power than future pre-orders...and it will all be by some kind of "magic" solution they found to their enigmatic problem. It's all speculation though...don't take anything I say too seriously...
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