My assertion is that if they had 200ish chips (~500GH/s) it would make far more sense to mine with it than to ship out the units. They cannot clear their order book with 100 Jalapenos (or get anywhere close to it). They could easily disguise the addition of 500GH/s (0.5% of the total network). If they did that for a month it would earn $80K at current prices. That would be a powerful temptation to a company that is in a cash crunch.
Hold up... if BFL is "a company that is in a cash crunch" ...wouldn't it be illogical to be forcing refunds on unhappy customers - the point of this thread? No, it is not illogical. You would want to offload all the older orders and potential liability from June 2012 through to April 1st 2013. (In my opinion and "speculative" thoughts) You have a lot of customer(s) who can sue you for non-delivery (if they are old enough). Therefore refunds are a very good thing (imo). I believe this is what Inabas true goals are by letting loose on the forums. -------------------------------- The Advertising campaign simply refreshes revenue/cash flow (at a higher premium) and replaces the older (liability prone 2012 and early 2013) customers. As they get frustrated or quit waiting. Therefore it is perfectly logical to abuse your older customer base. As long as no one contacts Google about false advertising....the game will go on. If that happens....PANIC! -------------------------------- In this speculative rendering, money is the objective and limiting or reducing liability. Not customer service or customer relationships. |
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They don't use 5 time as much power. They use 1.5-2x as much. (13 x 50w ars technica @ 5GH/s vs 600W) https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Avalon#Power. The first batch was $1500 per 66GH/s and they made money off it. The second batch is roughly $8000 but that was an anomalous result because Avalon explicitly said they were building into the cost of the unit the cost of upgrading their production line. If BFL ships, they could conceivably lower their cost back to $1500 and still make money and have a better price point than BFL. Presuming of course they don't have to buy a new factory every time they do a new run. Correction: Avalon: Batch 1 was 1299$ @ 66Gh/s Batch 2 was 1500$ @ 67Gh/s Batch 3 was 75BTC @ 45GH/s through 80~90Gh/s BFL: Single SC up until April 1st was 1299$ (plus a crazy shipping cost) @ 60Gh/s Up from 40Gh/s. Single SC before April 1st is now 2495$ (plus a crazy shipping cost) @ 50Gh/s down from 60Gh/s. <--- notice the difference and twice the price. |
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Question for the anti-BFL crew: Why are you guys not dog-piling on Avalon for what would seem to be more likely examples of unethical business practices? Take for instance this guy's Avalon, which certainly appears to have been run for quite awhile before delivery. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=141154.msg2175901#msg2175901Why does something as seemingly egregious as this, get a pass? Yet, all hints and allegations against BFL are automatically assumed to be true. Please do it for us. If you find something wrong, go ahead and sound off. No one is stopping you. This PuertoLibre makes it his profession to slag off BFL just like Xian01 does. Different motives however: PuertoLibre - he already has a 60GH/s avalon asic and actively encourages people to get a BFL refund - this is because he is happy with the 3-5 BTC he earns every day and he's worried his earnings will reduce dramatically when the BFL asics are delivered. Nah, I win either way. If BFL ships I will put in some massive orders via a third party. (That way Josh/Jody won't know which order they should cancel.) If BFL does not ship, they take a bunch of customers with them like what happened with bASIC. (Except Tom actually honored almost all refunds despite his collapsed company!) Rendering them financially destitute and out of the game as significant competitors. In the latter possibility, I have made a point of telling people how I think things are with BFL and waved a big red flag of caution for them repeatedly. Those that stay and lose their money...well....it is on their own conscience not mine. Xian01 - his motive is unclear - he's lost a 2012 order - he could have sold it for 10x the price he paid if he wasn't such an idiot - to me the only thing I can think is that he's an idiot...
He's a customer. Full Stop. He's a customer who suffered retaliation from a company that did not ship his product despite showing extreme patience and finally his frustrations. Full Stop. Did he say some unfortunate things towards one of the Reps? Yes. Did the Reps then take the initiative to retaliate and make an example of Xian01 and potentially any other customer who can be identified and linked to their order? (It seems likely and pretty much true.) --------------------------- It is like saying:
I have your e-money for your printing device for 11 months. I can threaten you too with "cancellation" if you speak out against me or anyone at my company.
Word to the wise and those out there holding orders. If you speak ill of me, I will cancel your order and take away your future profits. Your wait will have been worth nothing.
So shut up, and bend over...or else...   It is customer service with a smile. (emphasis on smile) |
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Question for the anti-BFL crew: Why are you guys not dog-piling on Avalon for what would seem to be more likely examples of unethical business practices? Take for instance this guy's Avalon, which certainly appears to have been run for quite awhile before delivery. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=141154.msg2175901#msg2175901Why does something as seemingly egregious as this, get a pass? Yet, all hints and allegations against BFL are automatically assumed to be true. Please do it for us. If you find something wrong, go ahead and sound off. No one is stopping you. |
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Now I finally do understand what you guys thought. That Avalon had shipped mine at that time? Strange idea but okay.
--------------------------
Alright, Slok,
Lets go with your twisted perception of what my post meant. How would your perception of my action be any different than BFL shipping a handful of prototype units to reviewers and non-customers while stating they are starting shipping? (just after they admit that Paypal is waving a threatening stick at them for not having shipped)
Making two blog posts on their forum that they have "shipped out units" and then...stating they won't be bothering to continue stating how many are going out each day. (Just when the number of prototypes ran out!)
Telly me there is no false pretense being weaved...please say it to me....
Can you explain to me which is the bigger fraud? My posting of a part of JGarziks DHL notice and saying everyone is waiting to see this kind of notice. Or BFL shipping a few prototypes to some people who hadn't even ordered them just to make it seem like they have something to ship...or make appearances that they are about to ship en masse....only to then stop for well close to a month when they ran out of protoypes?
Tell me, which is far more deceptive?
Mining with a customer's ASIC is more deceptive. By a long shot. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=141154.msg2175901#msg2175901Are you aware that all units are tested prior to shipment? You can't make the leap that they have been tested on mainnet simply because the unit is filled with dust. It's a long extension even for a shill from BFL. His was damaged and he definitely needs a replacement, ASAP. |
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Now I finally do understand what you guys thought. That Avalon had shipped mine at that time? Strange idea but okay.
--------------------------
Alright, Slok,
Lets go with your twisted perception of what my post meant. How would your perception of my action be any different than BFL shipping a handful of prototype units to reviewers and non-customers while stating they are starting shipping? (just after they admit that Paypal is waving a proverbial threatening stick at them for not having shipped)
Making two blog posts on their forum that they have "shipped out units" and then...stating they won't be bothering to continue stating how many are going out each day. (Just when the number of prototypes ran out!)
Tell me...there is no false pretense being weaved...please say it to me....
Can you explain to me which is the bigger fraud? My posting of a part of JGarziks DHL notice and saying everyone is waiting to see this kind of notice. Or BFL shipping a few prototypes to some people who hadn't even ordered them just to make it seem like they have something to ship...or make appearances that they are about to ship en masse....only to then stop for well close to a month when they ran out of protoypes? (35 units)
Tell me, which is far more deceptive?
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I skimmed,
I don't think I have ever posted in that section. All I saw was a wrenchmonkey getting bent over a table by other community members about his comments in support of BFL.
I guess blowing smoke is all you have left. Kinda sad....
The sadness is on you, man> BFL's empty box was obviously a joke, you on the other hand: Don't worry Puerto you will eventually get your Avalon once they start building them.
Now they have the funds from batch #2 to pay for them it shouldn't be too long now..........
 I think everyone is waiting for this kind of notice! Besides, what's with the advertising for BFL through your sig? "I think it's fair to warn everybody reading here that MORE PREORDERS should be placed until they are READY to.. etc"?? More pre-orders should be placed? Come on, only 38 out of your last 40 posts are about BFL, you can do better. That was a clipping from JGarziks DHL tracking number. I couldn't post all of it because it has his info on it. So when I said everyone is waiting for this, yeah, everyone is. If you all interpreted in some twisted way then please seek a psychiatrist or local psychoanalyst. |
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If wrenchmonkey is calm, rational, and fact-filled, then I'm the Queen of England. Any yet another person to add to my ignore list. The BFL reality-distortion bubble is strong today. Nah, you're not even close to being objective.
wrenchmonkey's posts have been calm, rational, logical and fact-filled.
He has systematically bitch-slapped the trolls on pretty much every exchange.
Your last sentence makes it clear you shouldn't be taken seriously anyway, poo-flinger. It's just another baseless jab, an attempt to provoke rather than debate.
At BFL they use quantum mechanics to make the impossible, possible. At times, there may be side effects. |
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Since you're working on that whole 'self-improvement' thing, this might be a good jumping off point.
Thanks Josh. At least one of us is trying.
Too bad you're not BFL. You're just some random joe blow on a forum, you're not a professional company, which is what BFL is aspiring to be. There's the difference.
In your world, customers would never complain about BFL and just sit there for another year, am I right?
You caught on very quickly. I am worried. (MASTER BFL Shill) |
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Most of the time, however, that I've seen Josh lash out is toward trolls who come out of the gate swinging. Not toward people who can frame their questions and opinions in a respectful manner.
We must be reading different forums. You can simply look at my exchanges with Josh. Two or three times now he's replied to me with something along the lines of "your post is so dumb I don't know where to begin". He takes the time to reply to me to say I'm wrong but for some reason can never find where to begin and explain how I am wrong and never once addresses any of the points I make. I don't use petty insults and I post legitimate points based on facts that I take the time to quote and link sources for but all he can muster is insults in return. My points might be wrong but insulting me isn't going to show me the error of my ways. That's because your posts ARE dumb, dude. You're an imbecile, in every sense of the word. You're intentionally obtuse. NOTHING will show you the error of your ways. You can't see the distinction between 'being frustrated' and 'being a troll'. Go figure that Josh also thinks you're an idiot. You ARE. You must be Inaba in disguise.... Anyway, TehFiend to be my replacement. He will one day take over for me. Frizz and Smoothie are still maturing. They must forge a troll post so strong, that even Sonny comes to defend the companies practice. (all said in jest) |
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So who is the bigger douche here ?
You are. Hands down. Not even close. Noted. Hey, I'll be the first to admit I can be an asshole, but I'm working on getting better. Everyone has a breaking point, and I obviously hit mine with respect to this transaction. And it takes a big person to admit that. However, your admission seems hollow when it's prefaced by several pages of persecution complex, and attempts at using bureaucratic agencies to exact your vengeance.  In light of all this, do you think he shouldn't have? What do you think he should have done. Provide an alternative. The one way to bring down a shill is simply to ask them what the alternative is. When they provide a laughable answer like "bend over"...then you know they are deluded. |
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$4,698.00 credited to my Paypal account, and moved out to my bank. What an absolutely incredible ride. Bravo Butterfly Labs. You know who I really feel bad for ? It's Jody  She's on the front line of all this, just doing as she's told. Now... it's time to buy some popcorn with that refund money. Consider yourself lucky...you got out before the collapse. (future prediction of mine) |
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"or payment option is out of funds" We are out of funds. Any chance of reloading soon? Your Cashiers check service is down. Your Paypal transfers is down. Your Wire transfers are down. Your ACH transfers are down. So effectively it is closed down. This is normal. They are a very popular site. Just wait and more funds will pop up at random times. You were right, they are an exceptional company to do business with. They beat BitInstant on steady consistency and speed. I only wish they would add USPS Money Orders to their line of services. |
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And this is how Josh the faggot goes to jail haha
Sir, The Rep will never be a Jail bird. If he ever saw the signs of a cage coming over the horizon. I am sure [if not certain] he would jump in his F-22 and afterburner/ramjet his way out of there in a hurry. I am DEEPLY OFFENDED at your notions, sir.   (Written while under the influence of a MASTER BFL Shill) |
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Friendly Reminder That Butterfly Labs Has No FCC Certification For Any Of Their Products, A Fact You Should Try Taking Up With The FCC
Isn't it only an issue if they ship product? If so, BFL is in the clear! They have shipped a few sales units to reviewers haven't they? Of course they also have about 1 wafer worth of chips earmarked for their own employees right off the bat. Here is a conundrum. BFL says they shipped customer products [starting] on April 1st. The FCC may say this is not good without proper certification. Does BFL maintain they won a bet (and ruined BetsOfBitcoin reputation) despite being fined or do they say they never technically shipped anything because of a possible fine? Can one have their cake and eat it too? Your opinions are welcome on this topic. |
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Friendly Reminder That Butterfly Labs Has No FCC Certification For Any Of Their Products, A Fact You Should Try Taking Up With The FCC
Are you trying to get the company to close their doors? Friendly Reminder That Butterfly Labs Has No FCC Certification For Any Of Their Products, A Fact You Should Try Taking Up With The FCC
Isn't it only an issue if they ship product? If so, BFL is in the clear! See, think positive! It's not whether you actually get there, it is the journey that is important, Right? (MASTER BFL Shill) |
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Purging the occasional toxic customer will be better for everybody. Maybe he can go buy some more USB sticks from ASICMINER now. Those seem like a totally solid investment... The best recourse would be for the customers en masse to purge this toxic company and thus allow the market to be repopulated with more reputable and reliable businesses. The only reason this is dragging on is pipe dreams of thousands of people who assume they will get something that hashes. The implosion of BFL is nearing, and as someone without any orders with BFL, I am glad I won't have to make the decision to jump ship before everyone else does. This from here on out is going to be a race for the bottom. A game of suicide chicken that neither Wrenchmonkey or Xian01 have any moves laterally. It is either you get out now or suffer the consequences of the following: 1. Under performing prototypes that fail to meet projected specifications 2. Repeatedly missed deadlines and over estimation of delivery and production schedules 3. Inefficient, mixed and collapsing system of JIT production 4. Disinformation, misinformation and incompetency at all level of the company communications 5. Questionable moral character of some of the parties involved in the company 6. Ever growing competitor base that threatens to wipe out their market share Looking at that list as well as more that could be added who is the "winner"? The toxicity of the environment in this case was caused not by rightly disgruntled customers rather a less than lucid group at BFL who simply are taken full advantage of the position they carved out in the market place as the option to get mining rigs. The real downfall of BFL will invariable come from the combination of the points above, vocal ex-customers, and the failure to ship any products. The reality is that BFL may ship something... but it will be far too little too late and with real competition from DIY / Open source as well as private entities they will not be ready to build the 2nd generation of ASICs. That is where the real battle lines are now. Not GEN I but GEN II. They missed the window it is over. The age of customer Darwin-ism? |
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This wrenchmonkey assclown ought to apply for a job with BFL. He's doing great PR for them. He's even more of a dick than Josh.
Perhaps he is Inaba's alter ego? |
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