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2981  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 08, 2013, 10:55:49 AM
People who went "all in" at 50 do care.

I'm all in and I don't give a shit. I will fall and raise with BTC  Wink
2982  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 08, 2013, 10:38:13 AM
The case for continuing downtrend:

The whales are not buying back. There is no buying pressure.

The price is hovering around 110 with low volume just like previous support at 120.

Another big dump comes in at 105 and all hell break loose.

Hello 100 and double digits..


I will welcome them with open arms  Grin

Ofcourse. What could better than Bitcoin going down! I can't think of anything.

Agree. Cheap coins might be 'costlier' at one point.

You really have weak faith in BTC if you think that a bubble deflation can "hurt" it. Let it go bust. It will slowly recover, real economy and infrastructure will slowly improve, and it will rise much stronger during the next hype cycle. It can happen in 2 years. Seriously, who cares? This is not a get quick rich investment. It's much more than that.
2983  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 08, 2013, 10:09:52 AM
Eh so it seems that the smartest thing to do now is somehow forget about clarkmoody and come back in 3 months.

If you are interested only in BTC going up up up, it may be the smartest thing indeed.

I find funny how all the ones singing the "BTC is only useful for Silk Road" song are noobs that probably came into BTC because it was going to the freaking moon, and they wanted fiat profit. Then, the BTC bubble bursted and entered the slow deflation, so they are bitter and sound butthurt, and keep saying that the only use of BTC are drugs and speculation, and unfortunately (for them) they were late in order to tenfold their investment speculating.

Really man, all this is so 2011. Exactly the same arguments.

If you are in this for profit, zoom out and think that the price was $0.07 in 2010. And $2 in November 2011. And $10ish just 6 months ago.

If you are in this because it's more than fiat profits, think that freedom is much more important than convenience. Screw micropayments. Bitcoin is here to help you to be free.
2984  Economy / Auctions / Re: ASICMINER,13GH/s,SILENT on: June 08, 2013, 09:55:46 AM
Weekend of action: Buy Now for 45 BTC  Cheesy .

No ROI at all at those prices...
2985  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 08, 2013, 02:49:50 AM

BTW, today I sent money BTC to one of my best friends who recently moved to a South American country. He cannot easily send money out of where he's currently living, nor receiving money from abroad, because he just opened a bank account and he has not been working in the country for at least 3 months, so international wires are "disabled". Funny regulation, right?. Well, we just said *fuck off* to that, only two hours ago. True story. But yeah, what a failure.

Saying that what is happening with Bitcoin now "is a failure" defines yourself.

Hmm , sorry but your story smells so fishy all the cats are going dizzy

first , it happend TODAY , great coin-cidence.
Second , you wwnt to the trouble of typing "to a South American country" instead of the actual country name
Third , I would like to know what country that is because the regulations you're talking about are also quite "interesting".

Also , what is he going to do with those bitcoins? eat them?


Don't be ridiculous. I took the time to type "a South American country" just because I value privacy and don't like to give much details in public forums. And it just happened today because happens often, both me and the people who I am related to are deeply into Bitcoin in many ways.
2986  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 08, 2013, 02:41:50 AM

BTC's point is a completely different one. It's more about freedom than about convenience.

I guess you need to read more and educate yourself, because you are not getting BTC's point if you think that not being ideal for fast micro-transactions is a flaw. Again: it was not designed with that in mind. The problems it solves are different, and deeper.

And it's failing at that.  

Yep. Sure. Started from scratch as a piece of code in 2009 and here we are, looking how all the three letter agencies stare at it. Even Coinseeker the patriot is hooked in the bitcointalk forums chatting with bitcoiners terrorists, because it is such a failure.

BTW, today I sent money BTC to one of my best friends who recently moved to a South American country. He cannot easily send money out of where he's currently living, nor receiving money from abroad, because he just opened a bank account and he has not been working in the country for at least 3 months, so international wires are "disabled". Funny regulation, right?. Well, we just said *fuck off* to that, only two hours ago. True story. But yeah, what a failure.

Saying that what is happening with Bitcoin now "is a failure" defines yourself.

So how does he plan to spend it?  Huh  

I knew you were going to ask that. OTC. It's not the most convenient way, but it's still a step towards freedom. 2 years ago, probably he wouldn't have found a single person to trade with where he is staying. Today, he will. These are just the first steps. And it's unstoppable, because there are many who, unlike you, are not happy about being enslaved by the ones controlling fiat money. There is such a powerful demand on what Bitcoin has to offer that you cannot even imagine.
2987  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 08, 2013, 02:34:47 AM

I guess you need to read more and educate yourself, because you are not getting BTC's point if you think that not being ideal for fast micro-transactions is a flaw. Again: it was not designed with that in mind. The problems it solves are different, and deeper.

But this will stop it from being used as a currency. It will be store of value, but not currency in a sense "pay for dinner" or "buy a coffee" currency. Of course you CAN buy a dinner in few obscure places that I do not know names of in LA paying with BTC, but that's not the point.

I appreciate BTC benefits. Being decentralised is fantastic. Having a paper wallet is mind blowing. Its compressing value into a QR code. This stuff is truly, truly amazing to me. But I cringe when I hear that BTC will become a widely adopted currency.

Services can be built on top of Bitcoin that can allow you to instant off-chain transactions. And anyhow, not being able to pay your morning coffee with Bitcoin is irrelevant. 90% of the people in here agrees that there is no need to be able to pay for your chewing gum with it. You don't need it to be the "world currency" used by 5 billion people, and with a price per bitcoin of $1M. BTC covers a specific area that generates a huge demand, simply because it enables you to be more free than you were without it.

And now call it a failure...
2988  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 08, 2013, 02:30:28 AM

BTC's point is a completely different one. It's more about freedom than about convenience.

I guess you need to read more and educate yourself, because you are not getting BTC's point if you think that not being ideal for fast micro-transactions is a flaw. Again: it was not designed with that in mind. The problems it solves are different, and deeper.

And it's failing at that. 

Yep. Sure. Started from scratch as a piece of code in 2009 and here we are, looking how all the three letter agencies stare at it. Even Coinseeker the patriot is hooked in the bitcointalk forums chatting with bitcoiners terrorists, because it is such a failure.

BTW, today I sent money BTC to one of my best friends who recently moved to a South American country. He cannot easily send money out of where he's currently living, nor receiving money from abroad, because he just opened a bank account and he has not been working in the country for at least 3 months, so international wires are "disabled". Funny regulation, right?. Well, we just said *fuck off* to that, only two hours ago. True story. But yeah, what a failure.

Saying that what is happening with Bitcoin now "is a failure" defines yourself.
2989  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 08, 2013, 02:18:51 AM
I'm not going to turn this into a Ripple discussion.  That wasn't my intention.  It's actually a brilliant system though, if you take the time to understand.  It's everything Bitcoin could have been and never will be.  That's MY view.



But he IS right in saying that bitcoin will never be used for microtransactions.

Obviously. For microtransactions you have paypal. VISA. Or another crypt. Actually BTC cap is 7 transactions per second. VISA is +2000 per second.

BTC was never intended as a microtransactions system. And BTC could never have been Ripple, because is antagonic to debt-based, created-out-of-thin-air money.

BTC's point is a completely different one. It's more about freedom than about convenience.

I guess you need to read more and educate yourself, because you are not getting BTC's point if you think that not being ideal for fast micro-transactions is a flaw. Again: it was not designed with that in mind. The problems it solves are different, and deeper.
2990  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Alright, I'm getting a Jalapeno [QUESTIONS] on: June 08, 2013, 01:54:36 AM
The fact that BFL is endlessly sucking in fresh money from poor noobs it's upsetting indeed.

I hope sooner or later Theymos gets up one day and says... "WTF, screw them!" And just removes their ads.
2991  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 08, 2013, 01:50:46 AM
I'm not going to turn this into a Ripple discussion.  That wasn't my intention.  It's actually a brilliant system though, if you take the time to understand.  It's everything Bitcoin could have been and never will be.  That's MY view.

2992  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitmessage Address Book on: June 08, 2013, 01:41:08 AM
+1 on the Mac .dmg. I tried unsuccessfully to get this running from the source and using Homebrew the other day, but after an hour or so, gave up.

You couldn't following this instructions? https://bitmessage.org/forum/index.php/topic,1690.0.html
2993  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Klondike 1 Avalon Asic chip Mini USB miner on: June 08, 2013, 01:37:32 AM
affordable USB miners - this concept can do A LOT to spread Bitcoin as you cannot even imagine.
2994  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 08, 2013, 01:32:24 AM
Guys, you realize there's every other subforums for this kind of discussion, right?


Your gifs are funny, but your reasoning is so retarded that I'm forced to think you're trolling.

Let me ask you a very simple question: don't you realize that debt money is bad money?

You already have LOTS of it. You already have a "global currency": debt. I really don't know what you're babbling about when you start with your "Ripple superior to BTC" song.

Honestly, are you serious?

I'm aware you don't know what I'm "babbling" about, as it relates to Ripple, because you don't understand Ripple.  You're prejudiced against anything not Bitcoin, thus remain ignorant to what Ripple really is.  Truly, Ripple is not a Bitcoin competitor or replacement.  It could become that, but that is the choice of the people.  That is not what Ripple is for.  Ripple could actually make Bitcoin more accessible to more people and businesses, without more people or more business actually having to deal directly in Bitcoin.  It's a win, win for Bitcoin.  Sure beats begging businesses to accept Bitcoin in numerous forum threads.   Roll Eyes

How your "debt" point is even relevant, I'm still trying to figure that out.

First, your "100 billion is superior to 21 millions" is ridiculous, as others pointed out.

Secondly, Bitcoin is designed to replace a flawed, centralized system, based on debt money created from thin air. It's a challenge to factual powers.
Ripple is just a distributed layer built on top of this flawed system, and shares all its drawbacks - adding an additional layer of debt-driven negative incentives. Plus, the crypto built inside Ripple is 100% centralized, while its security mechanism (no mining, consensus, no incentives to be a validator) is 100% untested.

And finally, you really do not understand the deep implications of Bitcoin. How it represents a step towards freedom, because it can free you from debt money. You seem not to value that, probably because you cannot understand it. You are too happy to be a slave. Or you are troll. No other options.
2995  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Address with Avalon bulk chip payments now tops $8 million... on: June 08, 2013, 01:21:57 AM


So you dont understand when, for example zefir paid a full batch of 782.1BTC, there didnt happen a confirmation of payment because freshly mined coins were included and at the end the order and the bitcoins are gone. No chance to contact avalon. You can do what you want you wont get an answer. And zefir tried everything. I myself mentioned him in my contact tries too often. Nothing happened. No empathy for zefir?
Or iam. If i would spend my own bitcoins ok, but i have the burden to have responsibility for other peoples money. Its a high pressure on the shoulders when you think a batch felt over. Its finally solved now but still there are questions regarding the chips that should be answered before they arrive at customs and before i get them because i have to buy the needed packaging for shipment and so on.
Fine... no support for the chips was stated... but i have read it of course that they wont answer things like "my miner doesnt work, can you help me" and such things. But no contact at all? Thats not what i awaited.
What i wonder the most... avalon most probably has massive money now. Whats the problem that keeps them from hiring a support person?

I don't want to play devil advocates or whatever, but I truly believe that no support person is expected. And it wasn't expected before they opened the chips order book. Unaswered tickets are an issue from day 1, and it was clear it was never going to be a priority.

I understand insisting in order to solve a specific problem. I'd do the same. What I do not understand well is the point on speculating about how many BTC Avalon is holding on X address, and yelling about how it is possible they don't have some sort of customer support. They don't, they will not. We knew that in January. There are batch 1 customers that did not receive their units yet. Delays are a real possibility. Ordering chips is a gamble in itself and no easy task to manage.

So, it's pointless to brag about the obvious, and its more useful to focus on solving specific problems.
2996  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 08, 2013, 01:03:57 AM
Guys, you realize there's every other subforums for this kind of discussion, right?

Come on baby, now let us know if the price will go UP, or DOWN.

Let me guess.... Down?

Wink
2997  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 08, 2013, 01:02:48 AM
Guys, you realize there's every other subforums for this kind of discussion, right?



Your gifs are funny, but your reasoning is so retarded that I'm forced to think you're trolling.

Let me ask you a very simple question: don't you realize that debt money is bad money?

You already have LOTS of it. You already have a "global currency": debt. I really don't know what you're babbling about when you start with your "Ripple superior to BTC" song.

Honestly, are you serious?
2998  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 08, 2013, 12:33:58 AM

Dude, stop the Keynesian "deflationary currency leads to hoarding and hoarding is bad"-crap. People buy things, because they both want and need things. You cannot delay a purchase forever (post-mortem anyone?) so the fact that the underlying currency gains in value isn't going to stop economic traffic in the least *.

*Although in the beginning people might need to get used to this, but it will be temporary. People will need to get used that merely holding currency isn't voluntarily paying more taxes and that saving can actually be a good thing as opposed to the credit hungry society the west is these days. I don't have any debt, but I can assure you I'm a vast minority ....

Keynesians are like cockroaches Tongue

Let me explain why I feel hoarding is bad , and not because of this keynesian b*** which i don't give a crap about.

Worst case scenario
We have people accumulating bitcoins , people not using bitcoins , price skyrocketing because bitcoin is such a great idea, and there are fewer and fewer bitcoins (people are stashing them)  until , some moroon realizes

Why the f*** is a bitcoin so pricey when you can't do anything with it.

You know what happens next. And this won't be a bubble burst.It's going a total bearpocalypse.

BTC is not about fast freeish transactions. It's about preserving and being able to freely transfer value, in a 100% decentralized and trust-free scenario. It enables you to completely control your wealth. I don't know if you understand the implications of this. And "saving" value is not necessarily inferior to "burning" value consuming just because money tends to be more valuable *NOW* than *TORROW*.

And, if the above alone was not enough, Bitcoin is also a way to scream *fuck off* at the face of a bunch of nasty gusty.
2999  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 08, 2013, 12:21:18 AM
Do I have to remind you guys that keeping coins and not spending them means you're killing it as a currency?


Yes, that is true in Paul Krugman's socialist keynesian wet dream.

In the real world we call it "using buzzwords (like 'hoarders') to demonize responsible saving."

Nobody ever has any legit data to back up their assumption that there is this huge number of people who hoard BTCs and never spend them. Although if you look at tx volume, you'd easily see that the ratio of spent coins to hoarded coins is much higher than with the USD OR precious metals. The second we say "Oh, but I do spend my coins" the 'anti-hoarder' crowd backs off - "Oh, well that's ok, you're a spender, you're benefiting the currency."
So what is the magical ratio of spend to saved coins you must reach before being considered a hoarder, and how can we empirically justify this ratio? No one has ever answered me this question, and I ask it every single time someone demonizes saving by implying that it "kills bitcoin."

People hoarded gold and silver and they were used as currencies for millenia. Thousands of years. Go read Fekete's papers on monetary theory you will shit your pants when you read what he has to say about hoarding  Shocked

I use a toilet for that... u know... toilet!!!!!!

I know pretty well I stirred a bitbee nest by saying that but don't forget.
Greed will destroy every dream no matter how beautifull it is  , and currently bitcoin is driven by greed.

Unlike many others on forum , I haven't put all my hopes of a wealthy future in bitcoins succes, and thus I can keep a cooler head than most people here.




Yeah. Greed is a problem. Money and greed go together. Those are deep problems. Even deeper than Bitcoin. BTC is not designed to solve all the problems. But it solves very real, day-by-day problems,and even if it's not definitive, it's a step towards freedom.


3000  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Address with Avalon bulk chip payments now tops $8 million... on: June 07, 2013, 08:41:57 PM
somebody called and woke me up in the middle of the night for this, so I'll keep it short.

1a. see the conference video, I thought that's an update; for the lazy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY1xgGiejIc
1b. also got cornered after the panel and somebody took this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtVx26LlNXA
2. an update incoming in < 1 week, pretty exciting.
3. we fully understand there is problems with orders ( no way?! )
- we can not address these issues IF WE DO NOT SOLVE OUR PRODUCTION ISSUE then we can not DELIVER at all.
- so until that happens, get all your information ready and bump the ticket if it makes you feel better, or just wish to complain and blow off some steam. ( please do not create new ones though, usually looking at the support system ticket insolvency merging at least 5-6 other ones first... ).
4. this forum is a giant waste of time, get back to coding, go outside, hug your mother, do something,
Thanks for the quick update, much appreciated.

1. I'm sure you are extremely busy but IMO your customers who have collectively invested $millions in your bulk chips shouldn't have to dig up a 25 minute video for information on when they can expect their sample chips that I believe are now over 3 weeks late with no contact from Bitsyncom. A quick e-mail to your customers will go a LONG way in easing their concerns and reducing the conjecture/paranoia found on the forums.
2. Awesome, can't wait.
3. I personally have no glitched orders/tickets but I am curious why you have not hired a customer service rep or 2 to deal with us annoying customers. It seems pretty normal for people to worry when they get no response from a company's support system so I can't blame them. Even just a canned reply "We are looking into your issue!" goes a long way.
4. I know this sentiment is common but you have to realize that we have to come here because there is simply no official info about the delay and this is one of the few places people share what little info can be found. Some people have a LOT of money riding on you with very little information available. When I got the update that batch #2 was starting to ship in April I relaxed, hugged my mom, threw the ball with my kids etc etc. After a month passed with no tracking # or update I decided to check back here only to learn there wasn't much progress so far with batch #2 and the sample chips. Now that another three weeks have passed without any update, surly you can understand why a lot of us are curious about what is going on. Your update above is the first I've heard that you are having production issues that are not currently solved and the irony is I learned this on these forums, not from an official Bitsyncom update so you are training us to come to this cesspool of a forum Tongue. I'm telling you man just a quick update to your customers will go a loooooooong way. I have 2 boys in baseball so I get plenty of sun and don't have the time to dig up videos and random forums posts to find out why the miners I spent my hard-mined BTC on are now almost 2 months late. It's like I tell my daughter when she goes out. I don't mind if you are going to be late but just give me a quick call so I know what to expect and avoid losing any sleep needlessly worrying.

Again I deeply appreciate your efforts and I look forward the next "official update" Cheesy

Re:
Quote
lastly, food for though:

who says we control that address in the first place?  Wink
This was the original point of my post (not to bring up batch #2 delays) and I find this ambiguous response "interesting". I didn't expect that you would directly address this post but while you're hear why not just clear the air and end the conjecture? The facts VERY strongly suggest these are the funds you have received for bulk chip orders. The transactions match bulk order amounts and began exactly when orders opened. I believe some people have tracked their coins to that address as well. I was planning to order 10k chips but backed out since there was very little info but have been watching with extreme curiosity especially now that the sample chips have been delayed with no official response.

I'm an Avalon customer too, and I don't get how some of you can be so crazy upset.

We all know this is a high risk investment. More like a gamble. You need to factor delays among many other things when ordering, not factoring them is just delusional.

Avalon is not a customer friendly business. Their philosophy is pretty transparent, and they are not customer oriented at all. Their terms of sales say pretty much all. Caveat emptor.

I can understand a batch 1 customer bitterly complaining of not having received his unit, but opening a thread speculating on what they do with the chips money, while scrutinizing their BTC address and whining... Seriously? It's that necessary?

The business that offers you plug and play money-minting machines with guaranteed ROI will never exist. There are risks. You have to be informed at all times and look for the info yourself. The truth is that Avalon faced a delay for batch 1, you should have counted on a delay on the other batches and the chips too. Let's hope everything is delivered ASAP, but all this anger for things (delays, bad customer service, etc.) that were so obviously expected is beyond me.

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