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301  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: It's going to be cute when bitcoin shatters and gets destroyed on: November 19, 2013, 09:10:35 AM
But , currently there is nothing like that on the market , so bitcoiners can stay calm.

And when not if it does come on the market, they will have time to evaluate and make a decision, so still no reason to panic. They can buy what is best for them.

But the government and mass media will be heavily pushing BitCON. Because it is the NWO-outcome coin due to inadequate distribution which causes it to be a ponzi scheme which is undeniable if you think about it mathematically as I explained in great detail.

If you really care about having something decentralized long-term, you will think very carefully about this, as new choices are offered to you.

It's not just Bitcoin, It's crypto currencies in general. They want a cashless society, but they want control over it. The future is not Bitcoin, and unfortunately not eMunie either. The future will probably be a one world government issued digital coin, which won't be anonymous and will be controlled, in every aspect. You think they want some clowns who mined bitcoins on their CPU computers to be worth billions one day?

They will just transfer the current bank balances into an inflationary crypto currency to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.

But there is a way we can win. We have to fix some things in BitCON.

It is easy to transition BitCON to the government coin. I have laid out several senarios, including the ponzi crash, the Transactions Withholding Attack, and another researcher the selfish-mining attack (which I pointed out can be combined with the pool-share-withholding-attack to make it resistent to the kind of retorts that Gavin is making).

All of these issues and more can be fixed.

But BitCON can't fix some, and won't fix others.

But that is the thing it doesn't matter if Bitcoin gets fixed. If they can't takeover Bitcoin, they will just make their own coin and replace it.
302  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: It's going to be cute when bitcoin shatters and gets destroyed on: November 19, 2013, 09:08:15 AM
Average people do not care about anything but speed and security

Average people don't own BitCON, and by the time they do, they will be buying at the top due to simple math I explained.

BitCON is owned by technology followers, mostly male.

So you have no market for your coin with fast transactions, if you can't first get it distributed to the masses.

You will have the whole Bitcoin market which is growing, and the whole crypto currency market which will become the future of currency, especially now in the beginning stages. Think about all the people who use Facebook credits it's the same thing basically. They convert their money into credits/gems/whatever to purchase in game items. There are millions of people who do so every day, they don't think twice about it. They do it because it's simple and fast, it doesn't take them 1 hour to receive their credits.

The market will start off with technology followers, and then once people see the coin is actually useful for real transactions, it will continue to grow, among the other merits that they deem positive about it.
303  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: It's going to be cute when bitcoin shatters and gets destroyed on: November 19, 2013, 09:00:30 AM
But , currently there is nothing like that on the market , so bitcoiners can stay calm.

And when not if it does come on the market, they will have time to evaluate and make a decision, so still no reason to panic. They can buy what is best for them.

But the government and mass media will be heavily pushing BitCON. Because it is the NWO-outcome coin due to inadequate distribution which causes it to be a ponzi scheme which is undeniable if you think about it mathematically as I explained in great detail.

If you really care about having something decentralized long-term, you will think very carefully about this, as new choices are offered to you.

It's not just Bitcoin, It's crypto currencies in general. They want a cashless society, but they want control over it. The future is not Bitcoin, and unfortunately not eMunie either. The future will probably be a one world government issued digital coin, which won't be anonymous and will be controlled, in every aspect. You think they want some clowns who mined bitcoins on their CPU computers to be worth billions one day?

They will just transfer the current bank balances into an inflationary crypto currency to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.
304  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: It's going to be cute when bitcoin shatters and gets destroyed on: November 19, 2013, 08:56:10 AM
Just like TCP/IP was killed off by ....
Just like eBay was killed off by ...
Just like x86 was killed off by ...

I already refuted that logic in the Problem With Altcoins thread at the following post:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279650.msg3515394#msg3515394

You are conflating centralized standards with decentralized currencies. The latter are not subject to centralized issues that prevent competition.

In that thread above, we entirely debunked the network efforts inertia argument for BitCON.

Please don't hurt him, he's still in the fragile denial phase.

Ok but you are too. Transaction confirmation speed is not the main problem of BitCON right now. You are barking up the wrong feature.

And your technical understanding is a bit remiss too. Although I won't rub it in.

I'm not talking about BitCoins merits as a monetary store of value, or the freedom it stands for, blah blah. That is the main problem of Bitcoin along with many others, Average people do not care about anything but speed and security, if it doesn't have both nobody will use it over their credit cards who offer both. Ohh great you can't reverse transaction in Bitcoin, so i can get scammed and no one will protect me. Win Credit Card.

The only coin that has a chance for mainstream adaption is one that provides speed and it's simple as that. Nobody will wait minutes for their purchases to be confirmed and accepted. There are many other problems but I am just speaking about mainstream adaption.
305  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: It's going to be cute when bitcoin shatters and gets destroyed on: November 19, 2013, 08:46:50 AM
Just like TCP/IP was killed off by ....
Just like eBay was killed off by ...
Just like x86 was killed off by ...

I already refuted that logic in the Problem With Altcoins thread at the following post:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279650.msg3515394#msg3515394

You are conflating centralized standards with decentralized currencies. The latter are not subject to centralized issues that prevent competition.

In that thread above, we entirely debunked the network efforts inertia argument for BitCON.

Please don't hurt him, he's still in the fragile denial phase.
306  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: It's going to be cute when bitcoin shatters and gets destroyed on: November 19, 2013, 08:45:02 AM
Just like TCP/IP was killed off by ....
Just like eBay was killed off by ...
Just like x86 was killed off by ...



Great argument, why would they killed off? Nothing better has come to replace them. But there sure will be better coins than bitcoin. When a payment method can fully confirm within seconds and not worry about double spends, Bitcoin is dead. It might not happen this year or the next, but it will happen.

Enjoy
307  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: It's going to be cute when bitcoin shatters and gets destroyed on: November 19, 2013, 08:37:58 AM
If a tx took minutes to show up the the person sending it didn't send it for a few minutes.  Propogation times is measured in seconds.  Bitcoin simply could not work with propogation times in minutes.  If tx takes minutes to relay then blocks would take hours and how can a chain be built if blocks are arriving hours after they were sent.  Just because you are clueless doesn't mean Bitcoin is broken.

As for 1 confirm takes 4 hours well that is just stupid.   Did you include a tx fee?  Average time between blocks is still ~9 minutes. 

As for "nobody" accepts 0 confirm tx.  I did.  Sold prepaid cellphone cards.  0 confirm for repeat customers.   Not a single attempted double spend.  Nearly $1.3M in sales over six months.  So your wrong on "nobody".  A lot depends on the risk profile of what is being sold.

So you don't understand Bitcoin, make factual errors and thus believe you have found something (closed source, non-working website) superior.  Have fun with that.

That's cute you sold Cheap cellphone cards with 0 Accepts. How about bigger transaction would you still sell them with 0 confirmations? Second, you a person on bitcointalk is not Joe, from Joes Pizza, or Cindy your next door neighbor. We might accept 0 confirms for small transactions but regular users will not, and if they do it's a small majority.

Third Bitcoin will die guaranteed, again feel free to get mad and sad about those words. Just like Myspace died to Facebook, and just like dial up died to cable, and millions of companies who were destroyed by the competition, Just like Altavista and Lycos by Google, and the list goes on and on.



308  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: It's going to be cute when bitcoin shatters and gets destroyed on: November 19, 2013, 08:24:57 AM
It is the protocol, for a transaction to be confirmed against double spends Bitcoin requires 6 confirmations, for you to be safe.

An untrue statement.    Please reread Satoshi whitepaper and while your at it Meni paper of the economics of double spending.  For most transactions 1 or 2 confirmations is more than sufficient.  Nobody is going to risk $100K in block rewards to double spend a $500 purchase.

Quote
Secondly, even with 0 confirmations sometimes they take over a minute to show up.

Another false statement.   Propogation time on the network is measured in seconds.

Ohh ok Great so 1-2 confirmations, today that would be about 4 hours. YAY Bitcoin such a great success, let me buy some Dominoes Pizza in the morning and hopefully at some random time of day get it delivered.

Secondly, incorrect I've had multiple transactions take over a minute to even show up.

Third nobody is going to accept 0 confirmations. The end.
309  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: It's going to be cute when bitcoin shatters and gets destroyed on: November 19, 2013, 08:23:18 AM
just a loser who didnt buy and lost out to astronomical gains Grin Grin

noooooob

Yep massive noob who bought at $50-$100.

You, just another Mad moron who bought at $500-800 and is getting ready to get destroyed.
310  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: It's going to be cute when bitcoin shatters and gets destroyed on: November 19, 2013, 08:22:03 AM
How cute, you are trying to sell your (one of thousands) alt coin on the Bitcoin Talk forum.

1st it's not my coin, just naming the most probable coin that will initiate the Bitcoin crushing, Heck something else could come out also that will crush it. That's the thing it can be any new secure protocol that offers instant transactions times.

Second, how cute you have a broken fail website, please enlighten me more about your opinion.
311  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: It's going to be cute when bitcoin shatters and gets destroyed on: November 19, 2013, 08:16:01 AM
Good luck convincing people to accept 0 Confirmations, will never happen with normal mom and pop. Secondly, for the transaction to even show up sometimes is takes a minute or longer. So even 0 Confirms are slower than Visa.

So basically I'm right, because your original claim was about the protocol, and now you're making a claim about psychology (which is as trivial a fix as what terminology an end-user client displays).

Which is it?

It is the protocol, for a transaction to be confirmed against double spends Bitcoin requires 6 confirmations, for you to be safe.

Secondly, even with 0 confirmations sometimes they take over a minute to show up.

Thirdly, A confirmed transaction is 6 confirmations which takes about anywhere from 4-24hrs. So it's the protocol.
The same protocol that makes it complicated for the average person to understand or want to understand when the transaction is confirmed.
312  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin at the US Senate on: November 19, 2013, 08:12:56 AM
Seems most are breathing a sigh of relief thinking that the hearing added no push for new regulations or laws. What they said was the existing AML and KYC is sufficient for now.

Hello? KYC means what? Know Your Customer.
That means merchants required to know who you are. That means reporting to the government.
Electronic currency on a public ledger means they can ramp up these existing laws to require e-file reporting on smaller and smaller transactions.
The NSA is mopping everything. Soon the FinCEN or DHS or... will be mopping up all transaction identities.
If you aren't whitelisted, the merchant can't accept you.
666 anyone?
Don't be so naive. These transformations move slowly enough that you boil like a frog.

take your tinfoil hat off and listen to the c-span again

the hearing said it will only affect the exchange level businesses.. meaning MTGOX,BITStamp BTC-E etc... not starbucks requesting 0.0001btc, not alpaca socks, and not your great aunt trudy who wants to convert the bitcoin you send her into fiat so she can buy some knitting needles and a cup of tea.

again only exchanges involved with converting bitcoin to fiat as part of their business.

secondly regulated businesses do not send reports daily of every transaction. they only send "suspicious" transactions to the serious crimes division of fincen, and only when there it is an absolute and categorically obvious link to serious crime.

AMLKYC is about the business doing most of the leg work of finding suspicious trades and people. leaving FINCEN to only deal with reports from businesses that are truly high risk.

EG bitstamp:
they ask for your ID, they check that your name given matches that of the bank you wish funds to go to. they then check if your on FBI most wanted list.
if all cleared they allow you to trade, classing you as low risk. bitstamp keep logs of your trades and as soon as you reach certain fiat value thresholds they may increase the risk level, EG bitstamp may look to see if any of your deposits are just 1 hop transaction from a known blackmarket. in which case they class you as high risk.

now if you dont do anything to class yourself as high risk. fincen will never know what transactions you have done, only bitstamp will.


What fantasy world do you live in? The same Fiat Rules apply to Bitcoin. As of right now "Individuals" are considered MSB's with Fincen's last guidance unless they offer new guidance.

Secondly, regular money rules apply to bitcoin, If you make any purchases of $3,000 or more guess what it's getting recorded and probably stored in a government database somewhere, exchanging bitcoin into fiat well then we have a $1,000 limit for you there.

It's foolish to think that when the NSA and government are recording your banking and credit card transactions legally and illegaly, you think that Bitcoin is different.
313  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: It's going to be cute when bitcoin shatters and gets destroyed on: November 19, 2013, 08:03:32 AM
Seriously, you people need to bone up on what the blockchain actually is, and what confirmations actually mean, because this is all complete nonsense.

No that's the problem normal people will not give two shits what a blockchain is, when they see that the program shows the transaction is not confirmed they won't care about double spends, triple spends, or whatever technical word you throw in their face.
314  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: It's going to be cute when bitcoin shatters and gets destroyed on: November 19, 2013, 08:01:55 AM
Nope, Bitcoin as a protocol can't function for instant transactions, it needs to be reworked from the ground up, pretty much creating a new crypto currency, by the time that happens, if it ever happens, the new "wondercoin" has crushed it.

No. It's already better than any existing payment network for instant transactions right out of the gate.

Good luck convincing people to accept 0 Confirmations, will never happen with normal mom and pop. Secondly, for the transaction to even show up sometimes is takes a minute or longer. So even 0 Confirms are slower than Visa.
315  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: It's going to be cute when bitcoin shatters and gets destroyed on: November 19, 2013, 07:59:52 AM
I hope this isn't some sort of fruitless Ripple pump thread.  Cheesy

Ripple lols no, I'll give you the name so you can keep a look out for it on the alt currency thread, or even stop by to the site.

eMunie, you can join the people and get involved at forum.emunie.com

To give you a comparison:

BitCoin: about 80K transactions with 1 confirmation taking a bit over 2 hours.
eMunie: 100K transactions confirming in under a minute, only on a beta network of 15 nodes.

Keep a look out for it on the Alt section, or join the forum and help in testing and keep up to date.
316  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: It's going to be cute when bitcoin shatters and gets destroyed on: November 19, 2013, 07:52:31 AM
Yeah, something might replace Bitcoin. I think everyone is already aware of that.
Better hurry up though, Bitcoin is getting more entrenched day by day.

It's should be out sometime in January, that's the thing though Bitcoin can be entranced and it will still easily come crashing down.

Just like the only way people got online in America during the 90's was America Online, America Online entrenched in everything, and then it was all gone.

So what alt-coins you heavily invested in?

None, as 99% of them are all useless clones, and the one I am speaking about is currently in Beta.
317  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: It's going to be cute when bitcoin shatters and gets destroyed on: November 19, 2013, 07:51:14 AM
Gavin and the community will take any improvement your new wondercoin offers, adopt it for bitcoin and things will be fine.  Bitcoin is not set in stone - if there is a consensus that something needs to be changed, we have the technology and the motivation to make that change.

Nope, Bitcoin as a protocol can't function for instant transactions, it needs to be reworked from the ground up, pretty much creating a new crypto currency, by the time that happens, if it ever happens, the new "wondercoin" has crushed it.

Just Like AOL tried to finally catch up to Cable internet by offering it's own High Speed Option, by then it was too late. You don't have to be a genius to realize this thing is way to slow for real transactions, the fact that they haven't done anything to it for the last 5 years shows how amazing Gavin and the community is lol.
318  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: It's going to be cute when bitcoin shatters and gets destroyed on: November 19, 2013, 07:47:38 AM
Yeah, something might replace Bitcoin. I think everyone is already aware of that.
Better hurry up though, Bitcoin is getting more entrenched day by day.

It's should be out sometime in January, that's the thing though Bitcoin can be entranced and it will still easily come crashing down.

Just like the only way people got online in America during the 90's was America Online, America Online entrenched in everything, and then it was all gone.
319  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin at the US Senate on: November 19, 2013, 07:41:37 AM
Seems most are breathing a sigh of relief thinking that the hearing added no push for new regulations or laws. What they said was the existing AML and KYC is sufficient for now.

Hello? KYC means what? Know Your Customer.

That means merchants required to know who you are. That means reporting to the government.

Electronic currency on a public ledger means they can ramp up these existing laws to require e-file reporting on smaller and smaller transactions.

The NSA is mopping everything. Soon the FinCEN or DHS or... will be mopping up all transaction identities.

If you aren't whitelisted, the merchant can't accept you.

666 anyone?

Don't be so naive. These transformations move slowly enough that you boil like a frog.

Crypto Currency QR codes, Mark of the beast anyone? Tattooed perfectly on your hand to send/accept payments.
320  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / It's going to be cute when bitcoin shatters and gets destroyed on: November 19, 2013, 07:36:52 AM
Ohh noeeez I said the unthinkable to the bitcoin fanboys, that bitcoin will get destroyed by whatever coin comes out that will make this dinosaur obsolete.

Because wait please explain to me the benefit of waiting 30 hours to make sure my order is confirmed instead of a few seconds using a credit card? Anonymity!! Guess what when bitcoin becomes "mainstream" which it never will for the very fact that it takes forever to confirm any normal transaction.

The mainstream places are going to ask you for personal information, like Amazon, Walmart, whatever company you can think of, so it basically becomes a nice tracking tool to track every single transaction you ever make in your life, as they have your name and address and can match your bitcoin wallet.

But those are flaws in all crypto currencies, people celebrate them for freedom yet they fail to realize that they will be the most sinister, draconian tool of control even invented. Why do you think big government loves crypto so much, and are passing regulations to make it legal in their frameworks.

They know once they have the infrastructure in place they can track every single transaction that a person makes, and in the process they would have eliminated "cash" the only true form of anonymity.

Back to bitcoin though, Bitcoin is basically AOL dial up internet, waiting to be destroyed by Time Warner high speed cable. Bitcoin can't compete in the real world of instant transactions, hence it will never be used for anything of importance main stream.

As soon as a new crypto currency comes out that offers true instant transactions, Bitcoin will be dead, there is actually a coin coming out just around the corner, you'll all know of it soon enough, which will dominate crypto and won't be replaced by anything even remotely soon after, as it solves all Bitcoins problems. Any coin that tries to compete with it won't matter, as they will only be marginal improvements and not worth the "mainstreams" time to implement them.

It will have first mover advantage and keep it, Just like Visa and Mastercard. There will be clones trying to compete but they won't get anywhere as they will only offer marginal improvements which people won't bother or waste their time with. Just like the countless payment clones to the major payment processors, nobody gives them any attention.

Laugh, Cry, Hate, or Love just know this will all happen, and you have been forewarned.
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