I think Bitcoin can do both, and that these different aspects of Bitcoin actually reinforce each other. I also do not think Bitcoin will become a world reserve currency without experiencing mass adoption as a currency for the people first, history also certainly supports this theory as well.
It doesn't. Typically any form of money that is not fiat started gaining traction as a currency only because people tended to hold it as they considered it valuable. |
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I suggest you read Hayek's Road to Serfdom. Totalitarianism under the urge to follow a "strong" leader by steering the sheeps against a "common enemy" is not giving choice to the market.
I have read it actually, and having multiple implementations for people to choose from is the equivalent of giving the market freedom of choice. You're responding to a spam bot |
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Transactions being non reversible is a feature not a bug. Under the schedule outlined in BIP101 Bitcoin will be able to compete with payment processors now and in ten years from now as transaction volume increases. I do not have anything against off chain solutions as long as people are not "forced" to use them in order to cheaply transact in Bitcoin because of an arbitrarily and unnecessarily low blocksize limit.
I agree but tell that to your regular Joe consumer  Under the proposed Lightning schedule Bitcoin will be able to compete with payment processors by sometimes next year while maintaining the highest standards of security and decentralization. , you can not expect the market to just wait for this without negative consequences especially as Bitcoin fails to handle the transactional demand. I also think that increasing the blocksize would lead to more security and decentralization over the long run. Since having a high volume of low fee transactions would be better compared to a low volume of transactions with high fees. No we can't. Do you really think a meager 8x increase can have us compete with VISA or Paypal!? As long as blocks do not fill up we can, this depends on the rate of adoption. No it doesn't. It's about capacity. Realistically only Lightning can get us there. Raising the blocksize is not a scaling solution, as we've repeatedly tried to tell you over the last 200 pages or so. |
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Transactions being non reversible is a feature not a bug. Under the schedule outlined in BIP101 Bitcoin will be able to compete with payment processors now and in ten years from now as transaction volume increases. I do not have anything against off chain solutions as long as people are not "forced" to use them in order to cheaply transact in Bitcoin because of an arbitrarily and unnecessarily low blocksize limit.
I agree but tell that to your regular Joe consumer Under the proposed Lightning schedule Bitcoin will be able to compete with payment processors by sometimes next year while maintaining the highest standards of security and decentralization. , you can not expect the market to just wait for this without negative consequences especially as Bitcoin fails to handle the transactional demand. I also think that increasing the blocksize would lead to more security and decentralization over the long run. Since having a high volume of low fee transactions would be better compared to a low volume of transactions with high fees. No we can't. Do you really think a meager 8x increase can have us compete with VISA or Paypal!? |
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 I pity the family members who'll be hosting you people during upcoming Christmas family reunions. What a bunch of boring stuck-up children  You all need to realize this is bitcointalk not the fucking senate. Maybe check the thread title again?
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That is a lot of ad hominem for just one post, followed by a false dichotomy.
The majority of miners do support an increase in the blocksize actually.
They also unanimously condemn BIP101's pipedream projections.  |
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Transactions being non reversible is a feature not a bug. Under the schedule outlined in BIP101 Bitcoin will be able to compete with payment processors now and in ten years from now as transaction volume increases. I do not have anything against off chain solutions as long as people are not "forced" to use them in order to cheaply transact in Bitcoin because of an arbitrarily and unnecessarily low blocksize limit.
I agree but tell that to your regular Joe consumer Under the proposed Lightning schedule Bitcoin will be able to compete with payment processors by sometimes next year while maintaining the highest standards of security and decentralization. |
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Talks about loud, vocal minority. Links to forum with almost 300 members! Did you read the list in the post that I linked to? Those people are not part of that forum... they are the major players in the bitcoin ecosystem. They're major banking parasites freeloaders indeed. Coinbase. Banking puppets Xapo. Wences IMO is one of the few legit bloke in the industry. Most likely was lied to by Gavin and Mike and urged to show "unity" with the "industry" BitGo. Web Wallet, has nothing to do with Bitcoin. Circle. Goldman Sachs puppets Blockchain.info Broken Web wallet, has nothing to do with Bitcoin. ItBit. Banking puppets Miners are rallying behind Core. I guess that sums it up. So which side are you on? The zionist banking incumbents or the cypherpunks? I know where my allegiance lies. |
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They also don't understand what politics is and how everything human is also political.
Hint: It isn't what you see on CNBC and Fox News
Now, now Veritas, no need to create suckpuppet accounts to spam the thread Yeah, an account created 33 months ago with an obviously different writing style and 600 posts is definitely a sock puppet of Veritas. Such an astute observation, nice one =) Jesus christ you ph0rkers are dense  |
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Your amazon example is a marginal situation. Sure you might enjoy the benefits of jumping through these hoops but please don't pretend it is in anyway convenient for anyone other than determined Bitcoiners.
There is a very large group of people who waste a bit of time comparison shopping and cutting out coupons as well. The amount of effort to use foldapp and purse isn't any more. I guess we lost track of the argument here... To be clear: I proposed that Bitcoin is currently incapable of competing with traditional payment systems as far as mainstream adoption is concerned. Your argument that a certain marginal section of consumers has adopted dubious behaviours does not support the assertion that others will do the same.. If we increase the blocksize then Bitcoin will be capable of competing with traditional payment systems, It is very simply really. Yes, maybe, eventually, in 10 years maybe. By then most people will be transacting using Lightning though. Raising the block size does not solve consumers issues relating to non-reversible transactions, security and general consumer protection. More transaction throughput doesn't provide any more incentive for merchants to accept & HOLD bitcoins. Raising the block size is NOT a panacea. |
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Your amazon example is a marginal situation. Sure you might enjoy the benefits of jumping through these hoops but please don't pretend it is in anyway convenient for anyone other than determined Bitcoiners.
There is a very large group of people who waste a bit of time comparison shopping and cutting out coupons as well. The amount of effort to use foldapp and purse isn't any more. I guess we lost track of the argument here... To be clear: I proposed that Bitcoin is currently incapable of competing with traditional payment systems as far as mainstream adoption is concerned. Your argument that a certain marginal section of consumers has adopted dubious behaviours does not support the assertion that others will do the same.. |
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They also don't understand what politics is and how everything human is also political.
Hint: It isn't what you see on CNBC and Fox News
Now, now Veritas, no need to create suckpuppet accounts to spam the thread |
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I hope you don't run a business.
I own several , and even pay some employees in btc, but no reason to use an ad hominem .... address the argument above directly. More power to you! Pray tell, do all your suppliers accept Bitcoin as payment? Of course not... but before you proceed , address my question refuting your statement that I should use fiat first.
Why? Even if we ignore appreciation and I buy btc at 1% above spot , I can immediately save 20-30% off amazon with regulatory arbitrage.
Why should I spend fiat first instead?
Your amazon example is a marginal situation. Sure you might enjoy the benefits of jumping through these hoops but please don't pretend it is in anyway convenient for anyone other than determined Bitcoiners. As a more general rule, you should spend fiat because its purchasing power constantly depreciates while Bitcoin's appreciates on a long scale. Again, what I'm proposing is nothing novel. It has been the reaction and general attitude of individuals anytime a better form of money was introduced throughout history. |
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I hope you don't run a business.
I own several , and even pay some employees in btc, but no reason to use an ad hominem .... address the argument above directly. More power to you! Pray tell, do all your suppliers accept Bitcoin as payment? |
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Go online and try buying a full auto M-16 and an ounce of peruvian blue flake cocaine with your Visa card. Report back and tell me how that works out for you.
Maybe you missed this part It might be for certain niche use cases (overseas transfers) but for everyday business it can't hold a candle to my VISA card.
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Your posts sound like advertisements for Visa.
 Sounds too good to be true heh? Well it's not! |
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There really is not many valid reasons not to spend and receive bitcoin.
 I hope you don't run a business. |
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It also takes my 3 seconds to order diner using my VISA. Moreover I get 2% cash back on everything and it comes with industry leading consumer protection.
Have your parents fully converted to Bitcoin and are they using it everywhere they go now?
If it is so superior to other solutions then why not?
You are making the dangerous assumption that it is an either or proposition. Fiat and CC's are superior in certain ways as currency and payment rails than bitcoin... no doubt, but not in all ways. Bitcoin allows users to leverage bitcoin for regulatory arbitrage to save money and than can even use bitcoins greatest weakness as a strength (volatility) by choosing when to spend it. Bitcoin down more than 10-20% use Visa, all else cases use bitcoin. The more economically sound way to go about it is to use whatever amount of fiat you have before Bitcoin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law |
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I use Bitcoin as a currency almost on a daily basis and I find it much easier and convenient compared to other payment solutions. I often buy my diners from this site: http://www.thuisbezorgd.nl/Using a Airbitz wallet on an android smart phone, while using Bitpay as a payment processor it is incredibly fast, easy and convenient. I even find it to be superior compared to the other payment options that are available to me. My life and experience serves as a counterfactual to your obviously flawed statements. I often find that the small blockist perspective is very bearish on Bitcoin, keep telling us how fragile, and unpractical Bitcoin is. I disagree, Bitcoin is great it can do all the things that you say it can not. No it's not. That's not how it works as this is nothing but anecdotal evidence. You're simply part of the marginal case of users who like to pretend that novelty = convenience when it's clear the rest of the world (and Bitcoin's largest holders) are not buying the delusion that Bitcoin is somehow superior to other payment systems. At least not yet. It might be for certain niche use cases (overseas transfers) but for everyday business it can't hold a candle to my VISA card. It takes me less then 3 seconds to send Bitcoins to order diner through this site in the way that I have described. I have even shown my parents how to do this even though they are not "Bitcoiners" themselves. It is not anecdotal evidence because it is factually evident how convenient, easy and fast this really is. I would suggest that you should try this for your self sometime, and you will see that I am not wrong. It also takes 3 seconds to order diner using my VISA. Moreover I get 2% cash back on everything and it comes with industry leading consumer protection. Have your parents fully converted to Bitcoin and are they using it everywhere they go now? If it is so superior to other solutions then why not? |
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I use Bitcoin as a currency almost on a daily basis and I find it much easier and convenient compared to other payment solutions. I often buy my diners from this site: http://www.thuisbezorgd.nl/Using a Airbitz wallet on an android smart phone, while using Bitpay as a payment processor it is incredibly fast, easy and convenient. I even find it to be superior compared to the other payment options that are available to me. My life and experience serves as a counterfactual to your obviously flawed statements. I often find that the small blockist perspective is very bearish on Bitcoin, keep telling us how fragile, and unpractical Bitcoin is. I disagree, Bitcoin is great it can do all the things that you say it can not. No it's not. That's not how it works as this is nothing but anecdotal evidence. You're simply part of the marginal case of users who like to pretend that novelty = convenience when it's clear the rest of the world (and Bitcoin's largest holders) are not buying the delusion that Bitcoin is somehow superior to other payment systems. At least not yet. It might be for certain niche use cases (overseas transfers) but for everyday business it can't hold a candle to my VISA card. |
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