I hear you. But that't the thing, they need new orders, the need capital.
That's why the will never admit the real condition of their business, in fear that it will scare away the much needed new customers.

It's a vicious cycle with bitmine.ch everywhere I look. How is a customerprotection plan going to help when it WORSENS the situation for everyone next in line?

It's a mess.

EDIT: The information below is wrong, please see updated information here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=291141.msg4972393#msg4972393


or TL;DR;

take the first day of your batch week.

You should get an email on that very day, telling you the device has been handed over to a shipment company.

If you do NOT recieve this email, you can start counting the delay days from that first day of the batch week.

As simple as that.


Can someone from bitmine confirm this also here on the forum please?

EDIT: The information below is wrong, please see updated information here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=291141.msg4972393#msg4972393


The way I understood it and had confirmed by bitmine on the phone is that you have ..

a) the agreed week of your batch. Say february first week.

b) So you go and take the first day of this week.

c) you add 10 days to this first day of that week. (allowed delay for shipment)

d) you get a clear day when the Customer Protection Plan is triggered, should you not have yet recieved your device on first day of week + 10.



Bitmine will absolutely inform you once the device is on the way, meaning it has been handed over to ups or dhl or whatnot for shipping.
Should you not have recieved the device within first day of week PLUS 10 days for shipping, you can apply for additional moduls should there be an overlap.

Should the delay be large enough , two weeks or more, you can expect the additional moduls to be shipped TOGETHER WITH your initial order, and NOT separately.

Now what can happen and what the bitmine guy on the phone was pointing at, was that ... should they recognize that the delivery will get a few days too late to you, because they are at day 9 after the first day of your week, they will simply add the moduls because there is NO WAY in the world the device will get to you in time.

I agree it's a little wishy-washy when it comes to this overlap in the first 10 days. But they clearly state that ONLY 10 days for shipment are allowed. And the FIRST DAY of the week is to be taken as starting point.

So I believe you can do the calculation, should you recieve an email that says: "Order shipped, here is transaction id"...

I agree. That's free market for you.

All the wrongdoings and problems that appear with cryptsy give other developers the opportunity to create a better exchange and grab market share away from cryptsy.

It will sort itself out sooner or later. :-)

But those are past devices from half a year ago. But I see your point.

hm, this is one of those sites where you just see a login screen with no additional information whatsoever.

Hey, I would have liked to find out what's that all about and how it can help devcoin, but now I am not going to.

How did you find out how many devices were ordered and are in backlog? Did they tell you?
Are they so open about their order book? I didn't dare to ask them about that.

Yes of course. I was asking them because they don't say that on their site. They simply state you will get your money back after 60 days.
They don't say in what form.

But ofcourse it makes sense, since on the order and bill it states dollars and not bitcoins.

I just call them and they always answer if you call inside the allowed time window.

So you could do just that.

EDIT: The information below is wrong, please see updated information here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=291141.msg4972393#msg4972393


I just called them, and posed a few questions.

So they expect 10k chips to arrive in the middle of january, and another 10k at the end of january.

For my February First week delivery they expect a 50% chance that it will be 2 weeks to late, and
they will update the devices with 10% each.
(they still expect that 50% chance that it will have no delay at all   )

I asked them how to calculate the delay date, and they told me, if it says february first week, I
have to take the first day of this week, and count 10 days for delivery, and then the customer plan
triggers.

If you have ordered more then one device, each of the devices will recieve the 10% update, and not only
the order as a whole.

I also asked them if people will get their money back the way they payed. Will you get bitcoins back if you payed with bitcoins.
But he declined to answer, and told me that he is just a worker there and can not give an answer at the moment.

When asked about the software and how they will be updating it, he told me that the software will have a setting where you can have it update the firmware/software thru the webinterface.

So far so good, I expect the first guys to recieve their devices at the end of january.

Many companies often jump on the most popular bandwagon, they "go green" (look at bp's logo) or "open source" or "accept bitcoin" (virgin galactic) etc..

it's like free publicity for them.

Exactly!

If something doesn't cost anything or has no repercussions at all, we end up with spam mail and anonymous trolls behaving like they never would in real life.

Having exposure is key to empathic socioeconomic behaviour.

but don't let a market cap value decieve you.

That it might show 1 dollar one day is one thing,
to have would-be-millionaires dump their devcoins all at once to become millionaires and therefore crushin the devcoin price AND their dream is another thing.

For many a few cent would be enough for that.

lol, damn I wanted to get in a philosophical debate with you, and you try to disarm me with this harry potter one liner.

 

Merely releasing code does not encourage others to do anything in particular. You apply a causality that simply doesn't exist.

Furthermore you apply that cooperation can't be competitive?

I can imagine many open source projects where a (friendly) competition between forks emerges, and it makes sense this way.
If one fork has a giant innovation leap, the other fork might just give up their own plans, and not feel like losers, because the innovation is good for everyone. Everyone would realize a paradigm shift and adjust and not feel like a loser.
That's why competition is not a bad thing.

If you take all competition and all capitalism out of the calculation, you create a very artificial environment, because you would have to coercively prevent others from competing and making a buck out of open source if they voluntarily choose to do so.


Look I understand what you want to say, but in my eyes opensource is not married to cooperation, and open source can just as well be competitive and capitalistic, so I just try to understand why you purposely aim to limit the possibilities of the "open source market" ?

I am just trying to understand. It is important for me to be able to judge how other devcoiners think.

So you suggest that competition is wrong?


I think this is not the case. I am a selfemployed programmer, and many of my customers are programmers themselves.
You somehow seem to apply that the programmers can't be customers themselves?

In my opinion capitalism is the only thing capable of creating real competition that encourages a fast innovation cycle.

Why is capitalism bad?

Also, I am an (anarcho)capitalist who can program, so your argument is invalid?  


I want to add, that open source does not per definition create cooperation.
Simply making something open source does not imply or guarantee whatsoever that a cooperation will develop.
There is no proof for that.
Cooperation is driven by other factors.
Open Source does merely facilitate access to everybody, but it doesn't handle or influence the motivation of the developers in any form!

Awesome.

I admire every selfemployed freelancer who accepts cryptocoins. I want to do that myself sometime in the future... but I have to prepare a few things before I can.

I agree with your assessment.

I believe shipment with bitmine can take up to 10 days, that's what they specify on their website.