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341  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: HP Superdome SX2000 Itanium 2 - Bitcoin or litecoin mining? on: September 02, 2013, 10:36:31 PM
Hello,

Thanks for the advice, I will leave this alone as it doesn't seem worth the trouble.

I have a few Jupiters on order for September, its been a long wait since June.  The next couple of weeks are going to drag...

Happy mining :-)


Andrew

While I wouldn't encourage mining on it, how much is 'scrap value' that you have to pay? You may still be able to sell it and make some money, but be prepared to keep in storage for a long time. So you'd need a lot of space, a vehicle to move such large equipment, and probably at least two people to move it around on the ground even!

As always with eBay you can get a lot more interest if you can show it at least powers up, do you have the necessary infrastructure to power it? The power requirements should be on the HP site, they have very detailed planning and installation papers for their large systems like these.
342  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Vanitygen: Vanity bitcoin address generator/miner [v0.22] on: September 02, 2013, 10:31:15 PM
Quote
i am just curious how things can get stuck in such a way in an open source environment.

Because vanity gen addresses are a minor niche of cryptocoins and people would rather use their hardware to mine and make profit.
343  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Alt-Coins on: September 02, 2013, 10:27:55 PM
Is there a place we can find reviews of the coins and possible pump and dumps?
http://isthisapumpanddump.tk/Altcoin-name
Example:
http://isthisapumpanddump.tk/PPcoin

So not only does this whole site rely on one persons opinion, but there is not even any info about whos opinion it is. Worthless.
344  Other / Archival / Re: Pictures of your mining rigs! on: September 02, 2013, 11:55:23 AM
About 5 degrees C hotter than ambient air. I put a glove on before and touched the exposed copper side (it has its solder mask removed) where most of the heat is removed from the ASIC and it seemed to be very cool (<40 deg C I'd guess). The glass is very thick so I might move it to another glass container tomorrow.
345  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: New kind of cpu mining 45ghz/s on: September 02, 2013, 11:50:36 AM
His friend probably works for one of the MANY companies that make co-processors which are usually constructed as PCI cards. Many of them run at TFlop or more with a single chip.

Why can't they be used for mining? Well they can. But someone has to come up with the code to operate them. They do not function with the kinds of instruction sets that intel / AMD cpu do and they are not the same as CUDA or OpenCL.

Just google generic terms like 'co-processor solution -phi' and you'll find the kinds of companies I refer to. The Intel Xeon Phi is the ultimate example of a co-processor. It is probably the direction they took with their 70-core Polaris prototype they showed working at a few trade shows a few years ago. There should be a youtube videos of that CPU if you are interested..
346  Other / Archival / Re: Pictures of your mining rigs! on: September 02, 2013, 10:24:38 AM
Quote
How does it perform? :-D

Uneventfully.
347  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: use your head before purchasing mining equipment.... on: September 02, 2013, 09:42:52 AM
All right it will be interesting to see what they come up with.

As for right now, andrewboy44 thinks we shouldn't order any mining hardware from anyone? Just give up and let the 'big boys' play with their toys? Defeatist attitude?
348  Other / Archival / Re: Pictures of your mining rigs! on: September 02, 2013, 09:29:05 AM
Deep fried erupter, anyone?

349  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: bitcoin farming, the next frontier on: September 02, 2013, 07:16:32 AM
That would actually be amazing!  At my place, our grocery shops have auto-checkout, it would be amazing to have bitcoins has a payment option Smiley

Yeah and you can stand there for up to 15 minutes waiting for the first confirmation if its a slow block  Wink
350  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: use your head before purchasing mining equipment.... on: September 02, 2013, 06:49:26 AM
yeah that is true. I'm just going off of the current market and I personally thing cointerra is the best.

I have never heard of cointerra before now and you dismiss all the other major parties pretty quickly (except perhaps KNC but they havent shipped anything yet). I am thinking perhaps you have a vested interested with cointerra? Either that or this company has completely flown under my radar.
351  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Submerge your rigs in liquid on: September 02, 2013, 06:31:32 AM
About cleaning the mess: the liquid from OP is chosen as it boils at ~34C. You just need to warm up the gear above this temperature, and it all evaporates.

And how do you clean oil off your hardware?

Simply put it in a dishwasher (believe me it works) Tongue

As I explained the other day in another thread: and yes I have tried it.



As for cleaning oil off the components then here is my advice:

1. hang the card up by a piece of wire or leaning upright so most of the oil drips out / off
2. rinse off most of the oil with huge quantities of cheap dish washing liquid + hot water. this should remove the majority of the oil. And no, washing many kinds of computer components in water while they are off does not usually damage them so long as you are 100% sure it is completely dry before you power it up. Again the problem of unsealed electrolytic caps remains the only exception and problem here...
3. get yourself a few liters of your typical hardware-store-grade mineral turpentine (usually just $3/L...) and then immerse the card in a bath of it. It will dissolve the remaining traces of oil. It will also help remove any water, because they are completely immiscible liquids and you will see they will separate nicely from one another in the bath. If the oil you chose to use was not effectively removed with the mineral turpentine, try methylated spirits / denatured alcohol which is also very cheap.
4. Remove the card, hang it up near a powerful fan to dry for a long time.
5. your card is now back  to normal, ready for new thermal interface material and heatsink / fan assembly re-installation.

I highly recommend low viscosity oils.



Submerging your gear in oil actually works pretty well.  But there's one downside.  Forget about ever salvaging or reselling that gear.  Once you dip that stuff in mineral oil, you will never get it all off.

Thanks, I never knew that. Do you guys think mineral water could cool a card as powerful as a 7970? Or will it overheat?

it wouldn't work, mineral water has minerals in it that would conduct elec. and fry the card...just like if you tryed regular water...even distilled water doesn't stay "clean" long enough...read that somewhere


You could use distilled water, provided the water is well, pure.

The only problem you would have with normal water is the fact that the water would leech ion salts off the board. Mainly the flux nasties that didn't vape off during reflow and then other unwanted gunk on the board such as fingerprint oils and what not.

I do suppose one interaction that may be chemically significant is the water and Pb (lead) in the solder itself - the local electric current on the board might cause the two to interact in the presence of other solutions, forming some weak f***'d up version of a lead acid battery.

Seal up the solder joints themselves (hot glue!), clean the board so that it's holier than Jesus, and you should be fine - not that most of that work is worth it when you can pick up mineral oil for $2.50 a quart haha

Deionized water is quite corrosive. It will impress you with its ability to drag ions out of whatever it is contact with! For example if you put DI water into a stainless steel vessel, leave it a week and you'll come back to a unsighly mess! As for if it could do this with lead, I am not sure. It will do it with copper before it has a chance, just ask anyone who's put DI water into a watercooling rig with copper or brass components in the system. Even if you have it in contact with the atmosphere, it will attain an equilibrium with CO2 from the air, and hey presto, it's now no longer deionised and its conductive again. The only way to get a system to function with DI water @ 18.2 MOhm is to buy ion exchange/absorber packs that chemistry analytical labs use to get 18.2 MOhm DI from RO water. These are also used in some industrial settings. The downside? They cost a fortune. The ones I've seen in a few labs cost about $400 per canister which will last a few months in their indented mode of operation. Do yourself a favor and use something other than DI water, it will just drain your money and kill your equipment if you stuff it up the slightest bit.



As for the Novec 7000 and boiling liquid video, that is a good idea, I had considered doing that with diethyl ether or perhaps butane in a lightly pressurized container made of polycarbonate. I concluded the butane would be safer because for the same volume of ether it has much lower overall energy stored in the event of a fire. Their temps of 60+ deg C without a heatsink and under light / short term loads shows that a small heatsink would've been a good idea, there is still just too much heat to be removed from a small area (~1 inch square).

As for scaling it up, well they are going to have interesting times. The entire system in their prototype relies on extremely inefficient peltier cooling to remove most of the heat from the system. The other thing to consider is that assuming it was air tight (which would be a good idea given the cost of the liquid, you don't want it flying away...) then you would have an increase in pressure if a lot boiled in a short time, eg going from low to high load on the CPU. Increasing pressure in a sealed vessel increases the boiling point of vapourisable liquids. So if the peltier / heat pump was overwhelmed then you could find yourself in a situation where the liquid can no longer boil, and depending on the thermal conductivity of the bulk liquid itself you may find your components suddenly at catastrophic temps. Maintaining a pressurisable vessel with lots of cables going in an out and a heat exchanger as well is also non-trivial! And by pressurisable I don't mean 'held together with duct tape'!

In any case a look at the Novec products MSDS shows they are fluoro-ethers which are $$$ I would be willing to bet a few liters would set you back a couple of hundred dollars. And as for their 'non-toxic' statement in the video well I don't agree that means they are safe, since most organofluorine substances will overcome you just as well as their organic hydrocarbon precursor will (if inhaled). I would personally stick to oil for now because its simple, cheap, and works.
352  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: need help help help please on: September 02, 2013, 06:18:47 AM
What is overheating? Cores or VRMs? Post GPU-Z screenshot?

In any case as Graet says you most likely failed to attach the waterblock correctly or optimally.

Or you water flow rate is far too low (like a kinked tube somewhere or blockage). Or you have a slow flow rate AND a huge pocket of air in the block. But probably ^
353  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: HP Superdome SX2000 Itanium 2 - Bitcoin or litecoin mining? on: September 02, 2013, 06:05:26 AM
It's one of those "if you have to ask the question, you probably can't do it" kind of things. Itanium systems are highly specialized, you'd have to develop the code for mining from the ground up in order to get proper performance from the CPUs. And the power to run these things is just outrageous, and you could never break even against electricity costs. If you were going to try and mine anything with such a system it would be XPM, YAC, or another CPU-only coin. The electricity rate where I live is $0.30/kWh and at current XPM prices I cannot break with my systems that are mostly based on 4-5 year old CPUs (both desktop PC cpus - core 2 duo and quads - and Xeon CPUs of that time).

You are going to have a really hard time selling these on eBay too. I have monitored quite a few such systems as their sellers try to get rid of them for huge prices (tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars). The simple fact of the matter is that no one wants an old Itanium server/cluster/supercomputer. There are plenty of uses for old desktop PC, laptops, and old servers, but the only good an Itanium is for is i. Spare parts. ii. Collectors items / museum pieces or iii. the hyper-rich enthusiast who wants to tinker with it in their spare time. As you can imagine a sale for the later two wouldn't happen very often.

My only advice I can give is to compare what you have to other listings and then list at 50% or lower than the others. Or else you will just sit there waiting and relisting it for months with nil interest from buyers. Also be sure to include the 'best offer' option on the listing. Depending on your location, eBay may or may not offer free relisting of unsold items.

354  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Electricity prices on: September 01, 2013, 03:29:50 AM
This is surely not the kind of thing you would be able to sign up for without being a registered business and perhaps a visit or two from your local energy supplier to see exactly what you needed the power for...
Is it a problem for miners here? I know some countries have prohibitory barriers to prevent registering new businesses (like security deposit $100K or so), but I will be very surprised if Australia is one of them Shocked

No there is very little to stop anyone from starting a business, I think it costs about $100-300 to set one up and get a ABN (Australian Business Number?). You would have to submit BAS (Business Activity Statement) / Tax statements periodically.
355  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Electricity prices on: August 31, 2013, 03:07:00 PM
Yes a large % of houses have solar panels on their roofs, contributing to over saturation of energy during the daylight hours of the day. Apparently this has caused them to massively increase grid infrastructure, passing all the costs onto customers.
356  Other / Archival / Re: Pictures of your mining rigs! on: August 31, 2013, 01:40:04 PM
It's a pool funneling through another pool or a collective of users using the same account. If you were around in the bitcoin-GPU-mining days pool stats like that would not surprise you at all.
357  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Electricity prices on: August 31, 2013, 01:36:27 PM
Here in Australia we have a fairly complicated mess of privatised and government run energy organisations and their mode of operation varies regionally just to make things extra-confusing.

Where I live my current residential provider charges at $0.29 / kWh with planned +~10% yearly for the next forever, because of distribution network (grid) costs supposedly brought on by an over-saturation of solar installations. This is for the standard tarrif, there exists many other tarrifs that supply time-controlled electricity for pool pumps, bulk hot water heaters, etc. The cost of these can be as low as 50% of the normal $0.29 / kWh tarrif.

There are different ways that providers bill different non-residential customers here. Some commercial spaces are billed directly for their kWh use just like residential. So no luck running your 50 KW scrypt farm there...

Others like restaurants and industry locations can have completely different kinds of agreements. I have seen some where they are billed based on the daily minimum and maximum instantaneous consumption value. As for if this is a good deal or not depends exactly on how clever the person who signed up for that agreement was and how well they know their equipment. This is surely not the kind of thing you would be able to sign up for without being a registered business and perhaps a visit or two from your local energy supplier to see exactly what you needed the power for...
358  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Playing with my new Kill-a-Watt meter! on: August 31, 2013, 01:22:54 PM
A fixed watt meter wired into your mains panel board for your premises is also a good investment. You can get them for about $80-150 and they are supposed to be installed by an electrician in many locales. They compliment a wall-socket type watt meter nicely. But I like to stress to people that watt meters don't save you money, learning about your appliances electrical consumption and your habits does  Wink
359  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Aquarium Rig. on: August 31, 2013, 01:13:00 PM
OK...

Oil cooling does work. But unless you have a massive tank with a huge external face surface area, you will soon heat all of the oil until it is too hot to run the card at temperatures that will prolong its longevity. The problem I am referring to is not the temperature of the GPU cores or the VRM transistors themselves that you can see with GPU-Z, but other components that are usually kept passively cool like the smaller transistors and electrolytic capacitors that have maximum temps ~75-90 deg C.

If you are pumping hundreds of watts of heat into the oil, sooner or later you will need to remove that heat actively. You could get a robust pump and flow some of the oil through a heat exchanger, essentially water cooling but with oil instead of water. You could alternatively immerse some heatsinks into the top of the oil (which convenient is where the hottest oil will rise to, because of density changes in the bulk fluid).

You can't run the whole card as-is in the oil. The fan will burn out eventually because it has to work so much harder in the denser fluid. You will need to disconnect the fan and probably remove the plastic assembly, then relying on thermal gradients and density to move the oil past the hot heatsink(s) and components. Failing that, you could install some kind of low RPM stirrer to move the oil. A long time ago on one of the overclocking forums a member even had a rotating oil bath rotating 'around' a stationary motherboard+CPU+etc that was held in place from above, with great success. Sorry, I cant find the link, it was probably archived and lost.

There is a chance that the electrolytic capacitors (in the silver 'cans') will become damaged to the oil you choose. There is very little information available about this aside from the occasional anecdote. The problem is that these capacitors are not always perfectly sealed, after all they were never designed for oil immersion, and as a result the oil changes the properties of the electrolyte mixture in the capacitor and it can fail in various ways.

Another problem is that some oils will cause capacitive electrical problems in some immersed electrical components. This is exacerbated by the high frequencies that some of the components operate at on the cards, and with oil sitting across multiple contacts/pins/traces the capacitive effects can lead to instabilities.

As for cleaning oil off the components then here is my advice:

1. hang the card up by a piece of wire or leaning upright so most of the oil drips out / off
2. rinse off most of the oil with huge quantities of cheap dish washing liquid + hot water. this should remove the majority of the oil. And no, washing many kinds of computer components in water while they are off does not usually damage them so long as you are 100% sure it is completely dry before you power it up. Again the problem of unsealed electrolytic caps remains the only exception and problem here...
3. get yourself a few liters of your typical hardware-store-grade mineral turpentine (usually just $3/L...) and then immerse the card in a bath of it. It will dissolve the remaining traces of oil. It will also help remove any water, because they are completely immiscible liquids and you will see they will separate nicely from one another in the bath. If the oil you chose to use was not effectively removed with the mineral turpentine, try methylated spirits / denatured alcohol which is also very cheap.
4. Remove the card, hang it up near a powerful fan to dry for a long time.
5. your card is now back  to normal, ready for new thermal interface material and heatsink / fan assembly re-installation.

I highly recommend low viscosity oils.
360  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: CG Crash runs half speed on: August 31, 2013, 12:54:55 PM
Stop tweaking the hell out of it with varying clocks and voltages, and instead resort to basic graphics cards stability / stress testing methods like using OCCT or FurMark or Kombustor. As a starting point, revert to stock voltages and clocks and see if the card has been damaged or not. RMA if it has, sell on ebay as faulty if its out of RMA period.
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