Sigh.

Like a herd of cats...

I've been saying that double down on the MPP seems like the least worst option all around but there's absolutely no indication from them that they'd do it, and with their credibility problems and lack of a truly shipping device, it'd be hard to believe them if they did.

So we don't have a hardass in San Francisco? 

At this point not to negotiate with them, but to make an appointment with deCastro and/or Barber next week (sooner the better), and grill them on the facts.  How many chips in hand, how many ordered for arrival when, how many orders, nature of the BJ's problems, yadda yadda... just to get a sense of the realistic possibilities to resolve this, if any. 

If they refuse to answer questions, then they refuse. I suppose it's their right, but if the effort fails because HF won't talk in person, or says everything is a secret, then it only strengthens our hand with regulators, press, and others.

Sigh.  What a fucking mess. Thanks a lot, assholes @ Hashfast.  This is the kind of thing that will encourage me to follow your careers, if you have any left, and be sure to alert those around you of your past.

Is there anybody who is really a hardass who is located in the Bay Area?  

Taco, I love you, but not a Taco kind of person.  A hardass kind of person who will not be flimflammed with bullshit explanations.

Somebody who could conduct a fact finding mission by appearing at their office?

+1000

You are absolutely right, and in recent days I've wondered if other people with vested interests in Bitcoin, who are not Hashfast customers, may not also become very pissed off with this situation,  because Hashfast's bullshittery and greed may have the effect of drawing further government regulatory attention, and that may significantly contribute to undermining the autonomy of bitcoin.

Hah.  Have Hashfast's scam victims start writing to Congress to demand regulation so more people don't get screwed like us.  That'll be sure to make Hashfast persona non grata in other echelons of the bitcoin world.

I'll pass.

What's your offer for a B1 BJ and upgrade?

Yeah, isn't that amazing?  I made money on late BFL products - mined more BTC than they cost and then sold the equipment - for more than I paid.

But my order with HF in USD - yes, I know, BTC guys are in worse shape - won't make money unless Hashfast suddenly starts delivering on schedule, ships upgrades and MPP boards promptly, *and* BTC jumps to around $1250 ... or much more if the delivery schedule slips from the ideal.  And you know it will.

It's just a question of classic organizing, as far as I can see.  I guess I'm showing the fact that come from a non-profit campaigning background.

If there's no buy-in from a significant group of customers, however, then you are right to suggest that 'collective bargaining' with Hashfast would probably be pointless.

What I'm trying to say, however, is that if a significant proportion of Hashfast's customer base organized into a coherent group that could agree on some goals, then we would wield some power because we could create real consequences for Hashfast if they failed to meet our demands.  

Mainly in the form of bad press, and when I say that, I'm not talking about posts on this forum, I'm talking about tech and mainstream media.  Everybody who follows the news knows that strange things are happening with bitcoin, and are curious about bitcoin mining.  My neighbor is always asking me about it, trying to understand. A public feud between an organized group of Hashfast customers and the company would make an interesting story, one that would explain some of the dynamics to more people.

But we need certain skills, and buy-in, to pull it off.  Cedivad says he has good web skills and is willing to help.  There are a few people like you who have expressed interest. I come from a policy background and am pretty good at shaping public messages (and am experienced with major media).  But I don't have the intense bitcoin and economics knowledge that would need to be paired with those skills, and am not sure I would want to be out in front.

Shared goals are a prerequisite for success, however....  

That's just my .02.

I'm creeping towards refunding my USD purchase, especially if we don't see crap out of them first week of January.  For my order, the machines may or may not be marginally profitable (a few thousand USD in a good case), depending on the MPP fulfillment, ultimate delivery date of the BJ and upgrade board, and assuming at least a modest BTC price rise.

I've got bigger fish to fry, other things to do in life than lose hair over those @ssholes.

The fight with Hashfast that does potentially interest me - earlier delivery of greater hashpower under the MPP - doesn't seem to be the one others want to take up.

The fight most people want to fight here is to "get my bitcoins back" via a BTC refund. I understand that. It's just not the fight for me.  

No final decisions, though, for a little while.

Unlike BFL, Hashfast will get sued by a few people, I think, but you are right, most of these folks will just whine while they get reamed up the ...

For many, the economics of a lawsuit don't make sense...

One reason why I've advocated for a "Hashfast Customers Protection Union"  or something to that effect... which would band together customers to deal with Hashfast in a group.

Anyways, here is Version 1.C, date 28 August, capped by me on 1 September:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/194609352/Terms-of-Sale-HashFast-Technologies

I don't think anyone has attempted to assemble a complete list, but we have the means to do so between us.  Each of us received an e-mail CC'd to a portion of the complete list, ordered alphabetically by e-mail address.  We simply need to share those lists and merge them into a whole.

There are unresolved privacy concerns, however, so I guess for the time being we must rely on individuals mailing to the portion of the total whose addresses they have.  (The "Hashfast Customer Protection Union" ... can't somebody come up with a better name/acronym? ... could make this a priority.)

Alternatively, we could elect an individual, in whom we have trust, to assemble the list and keep it private.


OMG.  They allow Aggies on this board?

Went to my section as well.

It's a little bit vigilante, but if everybody on this thread simply sent an e-mail with a link to this thread to the other recipients of Hashfast's 27 December e-mail, then we'd attract some other people with our interests...

"Hi, I'm also a Hashfast Batch 1 customer, and I received the same group e-mail that you did on December 27th.  Some of us think that Hashfast is giving its customers a raw deal.

In case you haven't see it already, I thought you might like to visit this thread at bitcointalk.org for more information:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.5720"

Simple as that.

John Skankywhore (I forget his real last name), the director of marketing, previously worked marketing bondage, fisting, and other kinds of extreme porn for the holding company that has kink.com and its family of sites.

Just to be clear, personally I'm not against porn per se, but it's an interesting career choice, and John's specialization in its most extreme (legal) form now seems to suggest something about his personal ethics.  

I wanted to give him a pass about that back in October - a second chance, call it, everybody deserves one - but it seems clear now that Hashfast marketing has equally severe ethical challenges as the business of filming economically desperate women submitting to potentially damaging abuse, I mean, sex procedures.

Useless trolling?  Bullshit, Cedivad.

What I have repeatedly said is that we need to organize, reaching out to others who aren't here (via the e-mail addresses we have). We need to agree on collective goals for a negotiation with Hashfast on the MPP and send some people there to negotiate.  The leverage we have is the economic and community clout of the group of customers, a website, and the threat of press releases (e.g. from the "Hashfast Customer Protection Association") and serious negative publicity for the company.

I keep saying that, and nobody says, "hey, that's a decent idea, I'd support it." Or, "I'd work on a website." Or, "I think that XXXXX would be a good person to represent us."  

No really constructive feedback, just bitching.  Or ideas that just don't work.  (I want the mining machine, it's income, and the difference in BTC in 90 days.)

Personally, I don't have the standing in the bitcoin community, or the level of economic risk that many have, to put myself forward as a major leader of such an effort (although I'd help it).

Anyway, I'll shut up now.  My sense is that Inaba and Mister Fister have won the day with their machinations.  But best of luck in your suit, Cedivad. (Seriously.)

I don't think you're right, but these losers aren't going to sue, anyway.*  Nor are they going to work together.  They're just gonna bitch and moan while they get reamed up the @ss by Eduardo and company.

* Except Cedivad.

Why the hell not?  Well, not physically occupy, but metaphorically.  

But if you pull together a significant proportion of the B1 and manybe some B2 clients, you have more than moral outrage with which to "occupy".  You have economic and community clout.

These things are worth doing, but you guys are thinking too small.

Big whoop.  

I'm beginning to think that Hashfast's stoopid customers deserve their fate.  Cedivad seems to be the only one with the cojones to actually sue.  

The rest of you whiners will just bend over.  Eduardo will probably like it even better if you squeal like a pig (whine... "I want my bitcoins back." ... whine) while you get it from him.

I would sue the bastards if it made any sense at all, but since my order was small and in USD, it just doesn't make sense.  And I personally know the time and effort commitments that legal action requires.

The next best thing, however, is to band together and take them on. Define success as some collectively-negotiated serious concessions from HF, or big ass national negative press.  Don't stop one order.  Stop hundreds.

Maybe we should think bigger than just bitching, or stopping one customer from ordering.