HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s

[jborkl]

Well

Just to point out they have a January 15th refund date that is set in the sales contract. If you do not request by then it says you forfeit your right basically.

Just don't want anyone to miss that wording, I have not seen it mentioned yet.

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[joshv06]

Well

Just to point out they have a January 15th refund date that is set in the sales contract. If you do not request by then it says you forfeit your right basically.

Just don't want anyone to miss that wording, I have not seen it mentioned yet.

Thanks for pointing this out.

[RickJamesBTC]

Well

Just to point out they have a January 15th refund date that is set in the sales contract. If you do not request by then it says you forfeit your right basically.

Just don't want anyone to miss that wording, I have not seen it mentioned yet.

None of that was there in the original TOS was it? You absolutely cannot forfeit your right to a refund by law through inaction. You would have to agree to new terms.

File your complaints with the government agencies listed in my previous post. Don't agree to anything with hashfast unless it is a total refund of what you paid in BTC at the time you paid.

[stex2009]

Well
Just to point out they have a January 15th refund date that is set in the sales contract. If you do not request by then it says you forfeit your right basically.
Just don't want anyone to miss that wording, I have not seen it mentioned yet.

Which they will change to jan/5 if they don't deliver!

[jborkl]

I was just pointing it out, I have no idea.

I have been in the boat you guys are in with preorders this time last year and it sucks.

[JWU42]

Well

Just to point out they have a January 15th refund date that is set in the sales contract. If you do not request by then it says you forfeit your right basically.

Just don't want anyone to miss that wording, I have not seen it mentioned yet.

Thanks for pointing this out.

So what incentive does HF have to ship before January 15th?  I can't think of one....

As noted above, they plan to jack the price upwards and sell from inventory.  They are hoping for cancellations/refunds and sell at a premium...    

[mchu168]

If Hashfast is able to ship the Baby Jet and the Sierra out now, wouldn't they be the most cost/energy efficient miners in the marketplace?

Of course I know they screwed tons of people on the delivery date, but isn't the above statement  true?

[itod]

I'm surprised because i was thinking that they would have used fedex next flight to ship to as many customers as possible today. Maybe that's still the case and we just don't know yet.

If not, my legitimate conclusion is that they don't have a working product yet.

Why would they hurry to ship before the deadline? Every refund (US$ or US$->BTC converted) is direct gain for ScamFast. They can resell the miner for at least the same price, this time without the MPP. They can resell the (saved) MPP boards later for shitload more money. They are provoking us to ask for a refund, people, make no mistake about it. There will be certain amount of naive people thinking they can somehow get the full refund in the process, and they are an easy pray for HF scammers. If only 1/5 of batch #1 customers ask for a refund and save them MPP boards, multiply 110 * 4 * 2000 US$, we are talking almost a million US$ of additional income for HF. That's a chance scammers like HF won't miss. They will probably wait a week or two after the deadline, even if they have the miners, just to provoke as many refunds as they can.

They are however, in the US. The plan you described would be criminal fraud. The volume of complaints would be much much worse than BFL, since everyone sat through that one and saw just how much shit a company gets away with when you let them. Claiming to sell something with no intent to offer it. Taking money for preorders without a planned ship date or proper notifications of late shipping. It goes beyond civil claims. Get to filing the complaints, get everyone involved to file complaints all at once. California state attorney general, Kamala Harris. They respond quickly to inquiries, I've dealt with them a number of times over the years and they get results.  Federal Trade Commission. Get the complaints in, do not sign anything hashfast provides at this time.

I don't think so, criminal offenses you've described (taking money for goods which is known NOT to be delivered on time, and thus rendered useless) already happened, scamming additional funds thorough refund scheme is much benign than what they did back in August/September. That was a real scam, when they were positive nothing close to October delivery is possible by a mile. The volume of BFL complaints was 0, so 100 * 0 = 0. You've forgotten that HF CEO bragged publicly that he talked to Josh about the fact that there was not a single court action against BFL. ScamFast studied their customers well, and gave them a bait they couldn't refuse: quick delivery, BTC refunds and MPP. We've seen how it went with quick delivery and BTC refunds, the MPP part of the scam is yet to be played out.

[ryepdx]

If Hashfast is able to ship the Baby Jet and the Sierra out now, wouldn't they be the most cost/energy efficient miners in the marketplace?

Sure, if you disregard the fact that those of us who'd be receiving them if they shipped them out now paid anywhere from 60 to 50 BTC per miner. That makes them very cost-inefficient. Had they shipped in October, then your statement would have been true.

[cedivad]

@itod, just a little correction, that's their sales guy that i should have registered when we meet in person (and again, there where 2 people listening to us, it should be possible to find them). It's not their CEO. Their CEO is hiding behind all of it's thing while probably one of the ones with the biggest benefits from the scam he is running.

Like Yufi vs Nzhang-whatever

[itod]

@itod, just a little correction, that's their sales guy that i should have registered when we meet in person (and again, there where 2 people listening to us, it should be possible to find them). It's not their CEO. Their CEO is hiding behind all of it's thing and probably one of the ones with the biggest benefits from the scam he is running.

Thanks for the correction.

[Kouye]

As noted above, they plan to jack the price upwards and sell from inventory.  They are hoping for cancellations/refunds and sell at a premium...    

Plan is simple.
Happily refund everyone 20% of what was initially paid. The more, the better.
Include a "drop and forget" clause in the refund documents that are to be signed to be entitled for such a refund.
Wait for positive reports/reviews from friends/paid shills - who probably never touched a working unit.
Wait 2 weeks.
Rince and repeat.

[jjiimm_64]

they have disabled the comments on the you tube vids...  what a surprise

[yuriygeorge]

Filed a complaint on: https://oag.ca.gov/contact/consumer-complaint-against-business-or-company

It's really easy to do. Took me 5 minutes. If you're lazy, copy and paste what I wrote and insert the address. Again, I did this very quick, so perhaps you or someone else can write a more eloquent statement. My only complaint is that they changed the refund to be USD-based when they promised BTC-based for those who paid with direct Bitcoins, especially for those that paid before August 15th...

"Product Involved - Baby Jet Bitcoin Mining Device Batch 1.
56.70534274 Bitcoins paid, or at today's USD value - approximately $42,000.
Date of transaction - 2013-08-14 23:53:45 invoice/transfer located at http://blockchain.info/address/1BfiN8CwgEDJUUp5hbmMyrZHWfrcJMr5UZ

Yes, it was advertised on HashFast.com.
There was an online contract.
I have e-mailed them stating that if the product isn't delivered by December 31st, per agreement (it's already more than 2 months late), that I will want the refund in the currency I paid with - I paid in Bitcoins. They are now saying that they will refund the USD amount on day of purchase, but they promised that customers that paid in Bitcoin, in an event of a refund, would get the exact number of Bitcoins back.

They have not responded to my letter yet. If the product doesn't arrive, which it probably won't, I will be seeking legal advice and hiring an attorney if they don't refund me my original Bitcoins. I will also file a complaint with the FTC."

FILE IT. The more complaints they get, the easier it will be in court, if they don't act according to their promises.

Filing the FTC complaint now, too.

[yuriygeorge]

Filed another complaint with FTC:

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/GettingStarted?NextQID=203&Url=%23%26panel1-6

Please do it! They promised BTC refunds for those that paid in BTC, demand them. Especially if you were an early August purchaser. BFL got ZERO complaints. When complaints are entered, the FTC or the AG will actually contact HashFast and figure out what's going on. When they have the Attorney General, or FTC on the phone, they'll know that things are getting serious and will have to watch their tail. We are not taking the loss for them. Period. It was their poor business decision to promise us something that they now are trying to cover up. With the amount of sales that are coming in for Batches 2-5, they should be able to compensate Batch 1 customers with the BTC if they paid in BTC, but they're trying to mitigate their loss as much as possible.

For those who are screaming "Haha you fools, it's USD refunds" just stop trolling, you're not in our shoes. We know what we were promised. We made our decisions based on these promises. Things may look ridiculous now that the exchange rate is so much higher, but that's irrelevant, it's all about BTC ROI, including the MPP, USD rate is irrelevant. Same case could be if the exchange rate was lower, too.

[yuriygeorge]

Filed a complaint with IC3:

http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

The only break I'll give HashFast is if they ship by tomorrow. I don't care if it arrives Jan 5-6th, that's reasonable. If the tracking number says 31st, then I won't be taking action.

[jspielberg]

If Hashfast is able to ship the Baby Jet and the Sierra out now, wouldn't they be the most cost/energy efficient miners in the marketplace?

Of course I know they screwed tons of people on the delivery date, but isn't the above statement  true?

They are not any more efficient than a 400GH bitfury miner.  Not sure how efficient knc is if you under clock to have it run as slow as the hash fast box.

[perezoso]

@perezoso, I've been following your posts here and there is one thing I don't understand.  Why do you think that sending a "delegation" to their offices to negotiate would do any good?

It's just a question of classic organizing, as far as I can see.  I guess I'm showing the fact that come from a non-profit campaigning background.

If there's no buy-in from a significant group of customers, however, then you are right to suggest that 'collective bargaining' with Hashfast would probably be pointless.

What I'm trying to say, however, is that if a significant proportion of Hashfast's customer base organized into a coherent group that could agree on some goals, then we would wield some power because we could create real consequences for Hashfast if they failed to meet our demands.  

Mainly in the form of bad press, and when I say that, I'm not talking about posts on this forum, I'm talking about tech and mainstream media.  Everybody who follows the news knows that strange things are happening with bitcoin, and are curious about bitcoin mining.  My neighbor is always asking me about it, trying to understand. A public feud between an organized group of Hashfast customers and the company would make an interesting story, one that would explain some of the dynamics to more people.

But we need certain skills, and buy-in, to pull it off.  Cedivad says he has good web skills and is willing to help.  There are a few people like you who have expressed interest. I come from a policy background and am pretty good at shaping public messages (and am experienced with major media).  But I don't have the intense bitcoin and economics knowledge that would need to be paired with those skills, and am not sure I would want to be out in front.

Shared goals are a prerequisite for success, however....  

That's just my .02.

[cedivad]

Is 230GH really worth 4300$?
Doesn't matter, HF won't ship anytime soon anyway.

Don't know. Min-blown accomplished.

Systems are online again. Thanks, calculator.

[timmah]

Even their price structure sucks.

Since all their cases are standard ATX, including the PSU then it would be a lot more beneficial to just order the upgrade chip/board:

    (1) 28nm Golden Nonce ASICs
    Cooling system
    Power Supply
    Hardware & Cables

One "set" is $1500.

A BJ is $2250 so basically you are just paying for a case since the "upgrade package" has all other components necessary to plug into ANY ATX case, desktop, micro (?), and server.

Some math here:

BJ = $2250
Upgrade kit = $1500

$750 difference, that means that anyone that buys the BJ is paying $750 for a Standard off the shelf consumer case since the "upgrade kit" has all the other components necessary minus a case.

I'm sure that we could have all very easily just ordered our own cases if this is what they are doing.

Price difference for the Sierra is even worse, $6,300
$1,500 x3 = $4,500
Price difference $1,800 and I was told by John that "well we could have fit 6 boards in a 2u case but the 4u cases were more available" (and most likely much cheaper and means they do not need to use compact 2u SERVER grade PSUs but just regular retail CONSUMER PSUs or have custom water cooling) and it's not like the PSUs they use are hot swappable or redundant so if it is hosted at a DC and a power supply dies a tech would have to take out the entire case and trouble shoot to replace the bad PSU, causing even more down time and the extra cost for DC Tech time plus cost of parts.  I doubt that data centers keep extra parts for everyone who co-locates so it would mean sending extra PSUs or what ever or the send you the broken unit back for YOU to fix and return, costing even more.

But of course they advertise the Sierra as a "commercial" grade product, made to be hosted at a data center... So why does it have basically all consumer grade off the shelf parts?  Even KnC didn't advertise their Jupiters as "commercial" grade and up-selling by saying that their products would come in a 4u case making it "better" than the competitors.  KnC basically shipped out their product in something just a little better than a cardboard box to fold up as a case, (instead they use aluminum) but at least they shipped a working product and pretty much on time.

Even though BFL did this same thing to us, at the time that they actually shipped the products we were able to make our ROI, even in BTC and out of my 180GH of BFL machines I am still running them and making money.

With HF there is no hope at all...