I don't get this panic.. it's a part of bitcoins normal cycle when the price drops as low as 200$.
The crash of the bubble has always went down to the top of the previous bubble, then some time of stability and then a new bubble.
It seems that people are confused because the current bubble didn't burst in a day, but it took 2 months for it to burst. That is why I was telling that the stupidity that drove the uptrend during January, actually slowed down progress in the long run.

When resources are spent without any new gain, then there is something wrong. The arms race in bitcoin mining doesn't make any sense. Electricity and hardware wasted for something that won't actually be useful to the bitcoin network. If increase of miners would increase the security of the network or speed of transactions, only then would the proof-of-work method make any sense.
Satoshis logic was to simulate gold mining, but in my idea it doesn't work anymore because gold does have practical value not just speculative value. If miners could be used for practical work as well, then it would be another thing. Proof-of-Work would only work if mining would be done without pools, and with CPU or at least GPU, that would have other application besides mining bitcoins. Pools and ASICs ruined the entire original concept.

When visiting miner forums, then it's full of desperation. Remember that the mining network brings in about 3600 BTC per 24h. The question if most of these coins will go for sale, or for keeping, will decide a very big part of the market trend.
I do believe that BTC has some juice still left in it and it will probably go over 2000$ before it's final death, since those who have invested big into BTC, will invest more into marketing to build new demand. But still I believe that BTC will live for around 2 years, because it lacks the properties to become anything more then an innovative gambling platform. Without price stability, it won't ever be useful as an currency. And the increase in market cap. won't create stability, but it will only attract players with deeper pockets and better knowledge on how to play the market. So, there will always be volatility that will stop bitcoin in becoming a quality currency.
My only hope is that the end of bitcoin won't be the end of crypto, but the end will be with value flowing from bitcoin to some other crypto.

Superior crypto would need a better system for creating new coins, since proof-of-work is not a smart way to create coins. The increase of miners should increase the security of network, and therefor give more value to BTC, but because the miners are pooled together, there is no increase in security. So resources are spent without any new gain. I think that Proof-of-Stake is more advanced, but I don't know any proof-of-stake coin that can hold on it's own. But I do bet that there will be a new wave of better quality coins. What we would need is an software company with experience and financial backing to create a coin. As long as coins are created by students or hobbyists, we won't see any serious competition to BTC.

Of course, money is always based on trust. Trust that you can use money to trade value without any unnecessary loss.
I think that bitcoin won't lose it's trust because of the flaws in software code, but it will lose faith because of the flawed market system. When there are no consequences to create a "scam exchange" that can play the competent exchange role for a year, just to gain trust, and then to run away with their customers money, then the market system is far from being secure. Most bitcoin enthusiasts are religious on the subject, and they actually believe that the market will be fine, since everyone has faith in the future of bitcoin and won't start "scam exchanges" because they can get more profit with legal methods.
But there are people out there who can see Bitcoin just as an temporary phenomenon and those people are motivated to build an exchange just to run away with their customers money. And they can actually do this without "running away", because they can just blame it on being a victim of hacking, lost database or whatever, and they won't see any jailtime.

Slowest people should sell at the bottom, like always. It will also be like this right now, but the process will take a lot longer then needed.
I think that it is healthy to tell the market about their mistakes and how they were stupid. As I said, this market needs some criticism to bring people back to reality.

TOP holders are playing the long term game, since they can take the risk. While most of the mining equipment are owned by people who actually used their savings to buy those machines. There is only a small amount of bitcoins in existance that will be sold at markets, and the biggest part of those coins have been created by miners in the near past.

I bought in around 200$, so it's profit.
I'm negative because this market needs some realistic negativity. The positivity that is supported by false hopes and illusions is the thing that is messing up the environment. There is enough Choo-Chooing and I truly see that I contribute more with negativity by bringing some balance.

I didn't say that the price should be controlled, I told that the marker should have been smarter. There is a difference.



How can you see that? Because I don't own any bitcoin while bitcoin is in a stage on being an useless investment opportunity? Oh, please, tell me more....

I guess I should just buy in without any thinking and start chanting Choo Choo! Then I would really have a clue about bitcoin!
Stupid f**ks like you are making this market a financial joke and I really wanted for bitcoin to be more then a joke.

Yeah, you can't control the stupidity of the market. The nature of the market will determine the probable percentage of stupid people involved. Bitcoin has been very attractive as an get-rich-quick scheme, so I agree that it is little naive to expect something else. You can only observe the stupidity and imagine scenarios on how things would have went if...

I owned bitcoins till the start of December. After it got clear that there is no future in China, I sold. I bought back in about two weeks ago, partially because I was intoxicated and bored behind the computer. Luckly sold couple of hours later with 803$.
Right now, I don't see myself buying back anytime soon. When I'll buy back in, then It will probably be buying some altcoin, not bitcoin.
Right now the only thing that keeps the bitcoin price from an ugly collapse are the thousands of miners who have invested thousands of dollars in their ASIC equipment. They are the ones who are holding and keeping the supply tight, because selling with this price means no ROI. But they can only hold the price for so long, because the electric bills are piling and their wives or girlfriends are yelling at them on why aren't the noisy machines producing any money like promised.

My faith in bitcoin is in a downtrend while my faith in cryptos and privatized monetary systems in general keeps steady.

The entire market wasted around two months on building illusions around the Chinese market.
When it was clear that soon there won't be much of Chinese market left, then religious zealots kept repeating otherwise. That created a lot of confusion on what will happen in the future and actually slowed down progress in the long run. The uptrend that started in January was fueled by pure stupidity.
The right thing would have been to drop the price and then plan another rise with opening new exchanges in new geographical locations. It would have been the normal life-cycle of bitcoin and the market would already be starting another uptrend. But with all these illusions and false hopes, we will probably see this downtrend last a lot longer then it should have been. The "get-rich-quick Choo Choo" people here have no vision or strategic thinking whatsoever.
And new payment options like overstock mean nothing to the price of bitcoin. If anyone buys bitcoin to buy from overstock, then it will be converted back to fiat right away. New payment options like this will more probably have an negative effect on the price, since more bitcoins will be converted to $ by older adopters.
New opening markets with the coming of new of gamblers are the only positive news that people should take into account when considering the price.

Your opinion represents the opinion of many who have absolutely no clue about finance and economics.
To you it seems simple, let's just make money so it gains value, so everyone can just get rich while sitting on their ass doing nothing. People like this are always looking for new ways how to get rich while doing absolutely nothing that matters. But people like that rarely get rich, because they are unable to make a connection between hard work and wealth.

Deflation would only work if the entire financial system would be heavily regulated with strict rules, to avoid senseless hoarding that will cause instability. Free market and deflation combination only motivates people to do absolutely nothing. Just sit on your ass, holding your money and get rich in the process. That means that the entire society will get motivated to invent less, to produce less and do less in general. That actually means that everyone are getting poorer not richer, because money doesn't mean wealth, but the value that money represents, means wealth. When people do less, then there is slower economy and less wealth for everyone.
The society needs to see money as an intermediate tool to be used to trade wealth. It's idiotic to see money as an investment itself, not just a tool for carrying out investments

I think that this is the main reason why bitcoin won't ever be an usable everyday currency. The future is in cryptocurrencies and privatized monetary systems in general. Bitcoin itself is just a complex gambling platform, because it can't offer price stability, that is the main quality factor of an currency.
The deflative nature of bitcoin is effective in attracting hoards of people who are looking for get-rich-quick schemes, but it makes it unattractive as an practical financial tool

Reality is attacking the exchanges would be a more suitable phrase.

Your post deserved an explanation that there is no great conspiracy, there are just illusions that are breaking.
Good luck to you.

Reality is attacking the current market price with furious anger.
The price should have gone down around the end of December/start of January, as it got clear that by closing the Chinese exchanges, there will be a big drop in demand.
It should of gone down and then have a nice recovery with opening new exchanges at new locations. But because the market was stupid, it went into denial and tried to push the price up with force of desperation. Now this force is ending and there isn't enough of it to drive the price up. But with bitcoin, if the price won't be going up, it will mostly go down to the level of previous bubble height (right now 200$) and stay there for some time until recovery.
This is the trend of bitcoin. Now the cycle will only take more time, because the market tried to break the trend by trying to keep the price up.
200$ BTC is not a disaster or nothing to be afraid of. It's normal for bitcoin. Just let it happen already and we can continue this natural form of development.
Keeping the price up in this artificial manner is the reason for all this confusion and FUD. People can sense it that the price isn't normal and therefor there will be more doubt on everything.

Bitstamp BTC deposit worked with flying colors

Oh, lol, my bad. Everything is ok
I haven't gotten use to bitstamp interface yet.

Stamp seems to have a problem with $ withdrawals as well.
On SEPA withdrawal it shows: Minimum withdrawal amount is $10. You have $0.00 available. while the balance is not $0.00.

It seems like they have halted all transactions. I hope that's just temporary to update their software.
The exchanges should hire someone to deal with public communication not just personal support staff. These flaws would cause a lot less trouble if they would publish the causes and solutions of those flaws more quickly.
The crypto scene is quite nervous at the moment and any delays in publishing necessary information creates trouble.

Global finance didn't go into crisis because there were regulations, but because the regulations and the regulators were too weak and without any real power.
I am volunteering to contribute to these regulators. Sadly I'm not rich enough to do all of this alone. This is why I'm posting these topics in this forum, not flying around the world to meet the right people in person, so that things would get moving already. Posting about the seriousness of this MtGox situation and calling for help was the only way I saw that I could do something. If I'd find enough people here, to show me that bitcoin is worth saving, then I'll also offer my part in funding.

Well, I'll also level with you, that I truly believe that bitcoin will fail without advancements in regulations. It's a matter of creating order if you want to create something for the entire society to use. People like you tend to think that order will just happen out of thin air. That systems will just fix into place by itself.
But things don't just fix into place, people fix things. When someone is not used to fixing something, then that someone likes to think, that everyone else are also like that and things get done by acts of god or whatever.
Now the thing here worries me that no one seems to very few people care that there is a real problem with the integrity of the entire market system. A problem with enough gravity to be fatal to the entire project.
I raised the same subject about 4 months ago, but then I was told that things are already being done to fix this situation. But on viewing the present situation, I can see that nothing has been done and nothing probably won't be getting done.
I was prepared that the majority always votes for nothing to be done. The majority always wants to sit on their ass and wait for miracles (other people) to help them. But what saddens me, is the lack of interest from the minority.. the ones that should have a big stake in bitcoin and that should minimize every risk that threatens it's future.
So, there is nothing being done "behind the curtain" and there is nothing being done in the public forum. It gets more probable every moment, that nothing will get done.

Regulations are not bad per se, but regulations can be bad if they have been created by the wrong people. Bitcoin already has a lot of regulation, with it's entire software being a structure of regulation. Without regulations, people could just write down a number and call it money. Doing this out of their clear conscious and pure honesty on how much have they contributed to others. Sadly you can't write market regulations inside the software. It would be perfect if you could, but daydreaming is for keeping you occupied while hiding your head in sand.
At least for now, these rules have to be written outside the software. Otherwise there are no laws and there are no order. You don't give a flying f**k right now, because bitcoin price is still reletively stable, but you will whine a lot when the price is back to single digits and dropping. Because in the monetary world, trust is everything. And if people won't trust the bitcoin market, then it will fall without an rebound. And then, when everyone will start yelling "hey we need to do something to regain trust", then it's too late, because no one wants to be associated with "bitscam", or at least that's what it will be called. People who have been bitcoin enthusiasts will be publicly ridiculed like members of an pyramid scheme or an cult.

So, I repeat. Most of you that are holding, if you want to fix this problem, then you have to have will to do so, and after that, there comes a solution. If you continue to be these weaklings who hope for miracles, then you will be eaten by the same law of the jungle that your ultra-liberalism tends to promote. If bitcoin wants to expand, then it has to work under a more complex market network then this "We don't need regulations... people are honest in nature.. especially around money".

Now, this dialogue ends on my part. I have been in fiat for the last months and currently I don't see much hope that would make me want to buy back. The market seems without basic ability to distinguish real threats from pseudo threats, so it's not a very attractive investment environment. It's always harder to predict the randomness of stupidity then the structure of common sense.
I'll still keep my eyes open, if there are any people who need help in fixing any problems, but I'm done with trying to get you off your ass. It doesn't feel nice if you bang your head on a stone wall.

When someone wants to create a scam exchange, then there is a lot more risks, when you actually have to bribe a group of well-known people. And this is what is needed, to make scamming riskier then before.
When a webpage is hacked and the information changed, then the operators can take down the website right away and report the hack attempt. So, this is not a real threat but another excuse why we should keep hiding our heads in sand.
"We've exposed Gox" ?.. This "we" are a counted number of members of this forum. And let's not forget that this "we" took about a year of getting scammed, before they "exposed it".... So.. another excuse why we should keep our heads buried in sand.

Well, if you want to continue this "every man for himself/law of the jungle", then I promise you that bitcoin will hardly last a year. When it becomes public knowledge that there is no reason to trust the exchanges and they probably will steal your money/use it for personal means, then say good bye to new adopters.
As I said.. if you want to be weak and meaningless, then go ahead.. evolution does it's thing with people who like to sit on their ass and hope for a miracles to solve their problems.


Get this through your thick head: If the media picks up the subject how unsecured the exchanges really are, then bitcoin will be called an overall scam. That means no new investors. That means old investors will be leaving. To you, it means that no getting-rich-quickly without doing any work.

I'm still getting the same vibe here: "Please be quiet.. you are disturbing my peace... let me live in illusion that everything will just somehow be alright". The world is full of people like that, and that's why there are so many things screwed up in society.
The best irony is that the bitcoin community likes to blame global banking a lot, while repeating the same mistakes that come out of greed, stupidity, laziness and self-flattery. Global finance went into crisis the same way.. most saw the flaws but no one wanted to step up with a direct solution in fixing those flaws.. everyone just hoped that someone else will somehow fix it, so they can keeping their choo choo going with the growing economy.


Luckly I got a reply from benjyz, someone who is interested in offering a fix to this problem. Thank you benjyz for giving me faith that not all people are useless pieces of meat.