Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[magicmexican]

I am really  thinking about getting fiat to the gox right now

[Dragonkiller]

I am serially  thinking about getting fiat to the gox right now

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[fluidjax]

I am really  thinking about getting fiat to the gox right now

I was thinking the same.... but I'm scared, and not sure if the current 32% is enough.

[billyjoeallen]

I owned bitcoins till the start of December. After it got clear that there is no future in China, I sold. I bought back in about two weeks ago, partially because I was intoxicated and bored behind the computer. Luckly sold couple of hours later with 803$.
Right now, I don't see myself buying back anytime soon. When I'll buy back in, then It will probably be buying some altcoin, not bitcoin.
Right now the only thing that keeps the bitcoin price from an ugly collapse are the thousands of miners who have invested thousands of dollars in their ASIC equipment. They are the ones who are holding and keeping the supply tight, because selling with this price means no ROI. But they can only hold the price for so long, because the electric bills are piling and their wives or girlfriends are yelling at them on why aren't the noisy machines producing any money like promised.

My faith in bitcoin is in a downtrend while my faith in cryptos and privatized monetary systems in general keeps steady.

Doesn't tell me if you made a profit, loss, or broke even. Usually people with your negativity lost money and hope everyone else does so they don't feel as stupid.

There is a Bitcoin future in China, whether the government bans it or not. The fact that it's useful for evading capital controls and other State restrictions guarantees it.

[kkaspar]

The entire market wasted around two months on building illusions around the Chinese market.
When it was clear that soon there won't be much of Chinese market left, then religious zealots kept repeating otherwise. That created a lot of confusion on what will happen in the future and actually slowed down progress in the long run. The uptrend that started in January was fueled by pure stupidity.
The right thing would have been to drop the price and then plan another rise with opening new exchanges in new geographical locations. It would have been the normal life-cycle of bitcoin and the market would already be starting another uptrend. But with all these illusions and false hopes, we will probably see this downtrend last a lot longer then it should have been. The "get-rich-quick Choo Choo" people here have no vision or strategic thinking whatsoever.
And new payment options like overstock mean nothing to the price of bitcoin. If anyone buys bitcoin to buy from overstock, then it will be converted back to fiat right away. New payment options like this will more probably have an negative effect on the price, since more bitcoins will be converted to $ by older adopters.
New opening markets with the coming of new of gamblers are the only positive news that people should take into account when considering the price.

Do you own Bitcoin? (just outta interest)

I owned bitcoins till the start of December. After it got clear that there is no future in China, I sold. I bought back in about two weeks ago, partially because I was intoxicated and bored behind the computer. Luckly sold couple of hours later with 803$.
Right now, I don't see myself buying back anytime soon. When I'll buy back in, then It will probably be buying some altcoin, not bitcoin.
Right now the only thing that keeps the bitcoin price from an ugly collapse are the thousands of miners who have invested thousands of dollars in their ASIC equipment. They are the ones who are holding and keeping the supply tight, because selling with this price means no ROI. But they can only hold the price for so long, because the electric bills are piling and their wives or girlfriends are yelling at them on why aren't the noisy machines producing any money like promised.

My faith in bitcoin is in a downtrend while my faith in cryptos and privatized monetary systems in general keeps steady.

Ignoring the "I trade like a boss"  I've bought low sold high thingy , the way you talk about miners holding the price and getting yelled at by their wife&girlfriends , the way you said the price should have been controlled.

I didn't say that the price should be controlled, I told that the marker should have been smarter. There is a difference.

I really don't see you as a person who has a clue about bitcoin , and not as a bitcoin owner at all.

How can you see that? Because I don't own any bitcoin while bitcoin is in a stage on being an useless investment opportunity? Oh, please, tell me more....

I guess I should just buy in without any thinking and start chanting Choo Choo! Then I would really have a clue about bitcoin!
Stupid f**ks like you are making this market a financial joke and I really wanted for bitcoin to be more then a joke.

[billyjoeallen]

Ignoring the "I trade like a boss"  I've bought low sold high thingy , the way you talk about miners holding the price and getting yelled at by their wife&girlfriends , the way you said the price should have been controlled , I really don't see you as a person who has a clue about bitcoin , and not as a bitcoin owner at all.

No shit, right? Miners don't have girlfriends. That's what Internet porn is for.

[MikeH]

Where are you from? This DOGE mem is completely unknown in Germany...

K, I'm moving to Germany.

I wonder how Chinese are appreciating those meme, laughing about it and then having a bowl of it? =))))

I wonder how many dislike being mocked for their attempts at engrish.

such racist, wow.

[TooDumbForBitcoin]

Right now the only thing that keeps the bitcoin price from an ugly collapse are the thousands of miners who have invested thousands of dollars in their ASIC equipment. They are the ones who are holding and keeping the supply tight, because selling with this price means no ROI. But they can only hold the price for so long, because the electric bills are piling and their wives or girlfriends are yelling at them on why aren't the noisy machines producing any money like promised.

My faith in bitcoin is in a downtrend while my faith in cryptos and privatized monetary systems in general keeps steady.

BTC price can be affected more by thousands of small time holders more than by dozens of big time holders?  Isn't the breakdown of BTC holdings by percentile something like this?

Top 50 holders - 50% of BTC
Next 100 holders - 25% of BTC
Next 1000 holders - 15% of BTC
All other holders - 10% of BTC

Those numbers are inaccurate, but in the ballpark, correct?  If so, the actions of thousands of miners have a small effect on BTC supply/price.

To your other points, what will a superior crypto have that Bitcoin lacks?

Are privatized money systems based on trust?

[kkaspar]

I owned bitcoins till the start of December. After it got clear that there is no future in China, I sold. I bought back in about two weeks ago, partially because I was intoxicated and bored behind the computer. Luckly sold couple of hours later with 803$.
Right now, I don't see myself buying back anytime soon. When I'll buy back in, then It will probably be buying some altcoin, not bitcoin.
Right now the only thing that keeps the bitcoin price from an ugly collapse are the thousands of miners who have invested thousands of dollars in their ASIC equipment. They are the ones who are holding and keeping the supply tight, because selling with this price means no ROI. But they can only hold the price for so long, because the electric bills are piling and their wives or girlfriends are yelling at them on why aren't the noisy machines producing any money like promised.

My faith in bitcoin is in a downtrend while my faith in cryptos and privatized monetary systems in general keeps steady.

Doesn't tell me if you made a profit, loss, or broke even. Usually people with your negativity lost money and hope everyone else does so they don't feel as stupid.

There is a Bitcoin future in China, whether the government bans it or not. The fact that it's useful for evading capital controls and other State restrictions guarantees it.

I bought in around 200$, so it's profit.
I'm negative because this market needs some realistic negativity. The positivity that is supported by false hopes and illusions is the thing that is messing up the environment. There is enough Choo-Chooing and I truly see that I contribute more with negativity by bringing some balance.

[surfer43]

We need the price to stay low so more people will jump on board.

Disclaimer: This is probably irrational.

[creekbore]

Sorry if this is a repost;
http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/02/jp-morgan-bitcoin-is-vastly-inferior-to-traditional-fiat-currency/
So a combined attack on BTC price from all sources 

Attack? This is uber-bullish. If JP Morgan had to write a detailed report in order to shit on BTC it means they are pooping their pants. They are seriously concerned.

Great.

A very pertinent and acute point.
I like the comments below the line esp the list of fines recently paid by JPM.

[kkaspar]

Right now the only thing that keeps the bitcoin price from an ugly collapse are the thousands of miners who have invested thousands of dollars in their ASIC equipment. They are the ones who are holding and keeping the supply tight, because selling with this price means no ROI. But they can only hold the price for so long, because the electric bills are piling and their wives or girlfriends are yelling at them on why aren't the noisy machines producing any money like promised.

My faith in bitcoin is in a downtrend while my faith in cryptos and privatized monetary systems in general keeps steady.

BTC price can be affected more by thousands of small time holders more than by dozens of big time holders?  Isn't the breakdown of BTC holdings by percentile something like this?

Top 50 holders - 50% of BTC
Next 100 holders - 25% of BTC
Next 1000 holders - 15% of BTC
All other holders - 10% of BTC

Those numbers are inaccurate, but in the ballpark, correct?  If so, the actions of thousands of miners have a small effect on BTC supply/price.

To your other points, what will a superior crypto have that Bitcoin lacks?

Are privatized money systems based on trust?

TOP holders are playing the long term game, since they can take the risk. While most of the mining equipment are owned by people who actually used their savings to buy those machines. There is only a small amount of bitcoins in existance that will be sold at markets, and the biggest part of those coins have been created by miners in the near past.

[billyjoeallen]

I didn't say that the price should be controlled, I told that the marker should have been smarter. There is a difference.

So who the fuck was supposed to sell at the bottom to make this smart transition and how would that be smart? What an asshole!  It should go down more so it can go up more, right? I guess you are whining that you didn't get enough of an opportunity to prey on panic sellers.

The market is the market, douchenozzle. That's like saying the weather should be smarter. It's not even coherent enough to be wrong.

[magicmexican]

macd's proven to be useless in the past week or so

[seljo]

I am serially  thinking about getting fiat to the gox right now

Depends on luck is your gox acc working as it should or not.

[stompix]

Ignoring the "I trade like a boss"  I've bought low sold high thingy , the way you talk about miners holding the price and getting yelled at by their wife&girlfriends , the way you said the price should have been controlled , I really don't see you as a person who has a clue about bitcoin , and not as a bitcoin owner at all.

No shit, right? Miners don't have girlfriends. That's what Internet porn is for.

What the hell , you're saying I wasn't mining for the last 3 months ... or that I have an imaginary girlfriend?
At the moment , I don't know what might be worse ))

[stompix]

How can you see that? Because I don't own any bitcoin while bitcoin is in a stage on being an useless investment opportunity? Oh, please, tell me more....

I guess I should just buy in without any thinking and start chanting Choo Choo! Then I would really have a clue about bitcoin!
Stupid f**ks like you are making this market a financial joke and I really wanted for bitcoin to be more then a joke.

Ignoring the language , looking at bitcoin purely as an investments just adds to the motives I said you don't have a clue about what bitcoin is.

[empowering]

The entire market wasted around two months on building illusions around the Chinese market.
When it was clear that soon there won't be much of Chinese market left, then religious zealots kept repeating otherwise. That created a lot of confusion on what will happen in the future and actually slowed down progress in the long run. The uptrend that started in January was fueled by pure stupidity.
The right thing would have been to drop the price and then plan another rise with opening new exchanges in new geographical locations. It would have been the normal life-cycle of bitcoin and the market would already be starting another uptrend. But with all these illusions and false hopes, we will probably see this downtrend last a lot longer then it should have been. The "get-rich-quick Choo Choo" people here have no vision or strategic thinking whatsoever.
And new payment options like overstock mean nothing to the price of bitcoin. If anyone buys bitcoin to buy from overstock, then it will be converted back to fiat right away. New payment options like this will more probably have an negative effect on the price, since more bitcoins will be converted to $ by older adopters.
New opening markets with the coming of new of gamblers are the only positive news that people should take into account when considering the price.

Do you own Bitcoin? (just outta interest)

I owned bitcoins till the start of December. After it got clear that there is no future in China, I sold. I bought back in about two weeks ago, partially because I was intoxicated and bored behind the computer. Luckly sold couple of hours later with 803$.
Right now, I don't see myself buying back anytime soon. When I'll buy back in, then It will probably be buying some altcoin, not bitcoin.
Right now the only thing that keeps the bitcoin price from an ugly collapse are the thousands of miners who have invested thousands of dollars in their ASIC equipment. They are the ones who are holding and keeping the supply tight, because selling with this price means no ROI. But they can only hold the price for so long, because the electric bills are piling and their wives or girlfriends are yelling at them on why aren't the noisy machines producing any money like promised.

My faith in bitcoin is in a downtrend while my faith in cryptos and privatized monetary systems in general keeps steady.

Fair enough...  I hear you... but the whole buying in and selling thing is not for me personally, as for me there is no point.. my strategy thus far negates the need

 I am not a miner never have been.. but I have been buying for a long while,  I buy dips and trade alts to increase my BTC, and I also have invested in an alt or two, and I actually now take most of my wages in BTC, and I spend it where I can... and I know a good group who are all doing the same... I am trying to get more and more local businesses to accept BTC and I am in the process of looking to intergrate taking payments in BTC for the business I currently manage. Most of my friends are now BTC hodlers and buyers and only one of them a miner-  though I am talking to my friends about setting up some nodes.   Also I do not think guys with angry girlfriends running a few little rigs in their little flats are propping up the market... there are guys with underground caves being powered by geothermal power right now with asic farms that would make your eyes water.. and I do not even think that is what is propping up the market... but assuming that they are... sure money is not endless but the players coming into the game with those set ups, and the ones already established in the game they gotz funding...  most of the players coming into the game (not just in mining) now have gots funding and deep deep wallets and are playing a long term game...  I am also playing a long term game... and the price movement of the past month, few months does not surprise me...  the market is going to decide for sure... I still see the fundamentals as strong... I guess we will have to wait and see .... for me the key is not price, not at all the key is adoption rate and user figures, can the network growth do its thing for a few more cycles? I think that the money coming into the ecosystem at this point is banking on YES, which is why they are coming into the game and coming with depe pockets and will do all they can to make it work, which gives me confidence... and if this remains true and we do get another few cycles of the network effect play out. then to me the long term fundamantals still look good.. not certain but good... and that would mean another set of parabolic price rises as time goes by.

I am mostly interested in adoption and use rates not the price.

One of the greatest failings of humanity is its failure to understand the exponential function.

(That being said BTC has in my mind over the next 1-3 years got a binary outcome)

[JorgeStolfi]

There is a Bitcoin future in China, whether the government bans it or not. The fact that it's useful for evading capital controls and other State restrictions guarantees it.

Is it?  Basically the only way to convert Yuan to/from Bitcoin now is through a Chinese bank.  Both the bank and the exchange will want your ID. 

What do you mean exactly by "evading capital controls and State restrictions"?