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Well, as I said: Everything to determine dividend payouts of mining bonds can be calculated by a program too and is out in the open, there's no human interaction needed at all. even if not all shares are sold all you need to do is to cancel the current sell order, calculate + pay the dividend and issue a new order. Except for the dividend payment part, all of the needed information and interactions are available via API from bitcoind and GLBSE.
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...and that dividends don't get diluted/have to come out of goat's pocket.  |
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No we put up a buy offer at 1.02 per share and automagically it will get filled after dividends were paid by goat.
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I personally love the daily payments on the JAH bonds... So if it can somehow be automated (to not cause you too much trouble) daily payments would be perfect. You can get the necessary data out of the blockchain (timestamp of last block per difficulty) and I hope that it will be possible in the future to pay dividends via the API too.
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As dividends are only paid once a week, goat can also only issue shares once a week - if somebody buys them right now at 1.05 he's probably quite in need, so to say...  |
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I do not follow this "pirate" thing, nor do I know much about any GLBSE listed "assets". However, please consider the following hypothetical GLBSE listed company. Someone places BMMM IPO on GLBSE. The company does not disclose what they do, however they pay rather good dividends. Everyone is happy (for now). What they do is the following, they convert BTC's into USD's and "invest" it into a piramide scheme http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMM-2011 run by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Mavrodi that reportedly currently pays up to 50% per month of "dividends". BMMM pockets 30%, pays out 20% to their "investors". They also hope that with such "profitability" they will be able to accumulate enough money to buy out the shares once the "master ponzi" breaks down. see also (google translate if needed) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77316.0and read up on to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome it might get applicable. The above is a ponzi scheme by proxy which BTW is pretty close to what all the investment banks out there are doing with the central banks and ultimately the fed being the "master ponzi". My idea exactly and similar to what I'd do if I wanted to create something like this - find a Ponzi that isn't going down yet (though MMM seems to me also burned out quite a bit) and that pays crazy enough rates that it's still possible to earn back the deposits + interest in a short time frame. Pirate however said the following in this thread: He doesn't have to run a Ponzi on his own - my guess is still that he "invests" in some Ponzi/pyramid game like MMM. If you read carefully, he never denied that, only that he doesn't Ponzi himself.
I can't believe I missed this one. None of my dealing have anything to do with, related to or managed by anyone running a Ponzi scheme. P.S. I do like how you read between the lines though, you should be a lawyer or one of my public relations people.  I even asked Nefario recently if it would be ok to list an open Ponzi on GLBSE (stating clearly in the contract that the shares have 0 value and the payouts come only from shares sold) and he declined, so to do something like this you'd really need to claim to have "insider knowledge" + "a perfect but proprietory idea" and disclose as little as possible. Also it might help NOT to pay out 20%. Better call it "mining bond" with 150% PPS returns or so and pay this out. Sounds less dodgy, you have more profits and you can "expand" from time to time to raise more capital. |
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Scenario:
The shares sell for 2BTC each. I have 200 BTC, and purchase 100 shares. The first week I receive 6.5BTC dividend, a 3.75% return on my 200BTC. The second week, I get a 6.5BTC dividend, again a 3.75% return on my 200BTC investment. The numbers don't converge, I'll always be receiving a 6.5BTC return on my 200BTC investment.
In the end it depends on your reinvestment strategy. As shares will _always_ be available at ~1.02 (I still would prefer 1.01 by the way, I don't really see where 2% fees come into play!) you can buy 6 additional shares from the first dividend, 6 more shares from the 2nd dividend etc. If you buy 100 shares for 102 BTC, after 1 single dividend all you need to do is to buy the remaining 2 shares and donate the rest to charity/GLBSE/... and act as if you started 1 week later. |
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PPT.X bonds usually return far less than 6.5% per week (depending on the "bidding war") and the insurance is maybe nice for some peace of mind, but in the end you can ignore it.
Currently quite a few people try to raise funds to get to the 7% tier and offer in return that they pay out these 7% too. I tried to construct a GLBSE asset out of thes, reactions were few to say the least though so far.
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interesting as i plan to lower the rates of tygrrbank to 1.75... i guess i will have to see if i pay 4 times in June or 5 times...
how many Tuesdays are there in June?
There are 4... you could lie and say you went 500 BTC long and then secretly go short + lower interest or the other way round. It's always a bit weird if someone is allowed to bet on their own operation! |
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Buying back bonds + closing the operation during May falls into short or long?
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"the fee" is 0.5% - which is your profit margin of exactly 1 week's income. As soon as someone holds that bond longer than 1 week, you are on the plus side. I don't really see where you'd loose money on that.
I understand your frustration, but if 0.005 BTC per share are really an issue, just don't sell down to 1 BTC but 1.01 BTC instead for example, so you get reimbursed on these fees. Pushing prices to 1.2 or so and making them scarce however is not what theymos suggested + what you agreed to...
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i will issue more and sell them at a much higher price than before. I thought the plan was to fill any offer down to 1 BTC each week? (emphasis mine) I'd like to invest with Bitcoin Savings & Trust, but it's apparently pretty difficult to get an account and you can't get the best interest rate without risking tons of BTC. PPT is alright, but, as Meni Rosenfeld pointed out, the "insurance" is mostly meaningless and only makes figuring out the risk/reward more difficult.
I'd like to see a GLBSE asset like this:
- Each share represents 1 BTC invested in BS&T and gets weekly dividend payments equal to whatever BS&T pays minus a small fee for the owner of the asset.
- Every week at some predetermined time, the asset owner creates enough new shares to fill all bids of 1 BTC or more.
Anyone with a BS&T account want to do this?
Okay, I will adjust TYGRR-P or TYGRR.P to this.
100% uninsured bonds at 6.5% weekly. (as requested by theymos)
Let me change the contracts. IPO will be Tuesday.
Thanks.
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In the post above he/she valued them at 0.48 BTC per initial MH/s, about 60% above the typical 0.30 BTC that 1 MH/s bonds sell atm.
Another interesting plot would be with difficulty that increases according to Moore's law - your bonds then should show a straight line while constant bonds (while initially cheaper) will rapidly decline at some point.
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You could just have advertised this _before_ the end to gain trust and profit on your 5% fee...?
Anyways, this "new" contract is even a bit worse, as May has 31 days.
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Bold pricing, considering you earned 47.5 BTC in total in over half a year so far... At least you're honest about it and produced a nice document to read. Good luck and it's great to see something different on GLBSE too! |
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Well, all you do is risk that bets that are issued after this article got published are cancelled... My bet that a female will win a TV show got cancelled too, because I did bet after the last male was voted out - even though there was a tiny tiny tiny chance that there could have been several winners, no winner or a change of rules + a male winner. |
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He doesn't have to run a Ponzi on his own - my guess is still that he "invests" in some Ponzi/pyramid game like MMM. If you read carefully, he never denied that, only that he doesn't Ponzi himself.
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1) In my opinion public is always better - also your PM was so short that I thought all you wanted is to alert me that you read my post... sorry for that! I expected you to roam these forums frequently enough anyways.
2) Not too much of a problem, in the end the real return rate for investors will anyways be between 6.79% and 6.55%, depending on how many people actually want to trust you and me. It could also be that they don't even want this and I end up raising only 10 BTC or so.
3) Also in that case the worst thing that can happen is that you raise 1700 prior to IPO and the shares "only" return 6.55%
4) Small withdrawals should anyways not happen, as they can be bought up by ask offers (that's also the reason for the 5% withdrawal fee, so it makes more sense to sell at 0.0099 BTC instead of requesting a payout). A minimum amount of 20 BTC or so for manual payouts seems reasonable to me.
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1.089 != 1 + 0.89%... 1 + 0.89% is 1.0089! Meni does this thing with 336 block "macroblocks" - there might still be an issue though with being able to game the system a bit by buying in on weeks where it's likely that they contain 1 more macroblock than other weeks, since on average one macroblock is a bit longer than 1 day. The correct (though a bit complicated) way to do it (if you want constant time window payouts) is as friedcat already outlined: Calculate for each second how much 1 hash would be worth and sum it up for 1 week or whatever your payout frequency is. |
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